Gamer, Video editor, Cosplayer

Jade Shadows

Roathe is worse than Albrecht.

Roathe is, in every way possible, worse than Albrecht.

Roathe complains of Albrecht killing animals for an inarguably good reason, but you gotta ask, how many sentients did Roathe kill, for his own gain? How many Dax and Grineer did Roathe send to their deaths? Remember, they physically cannot say no to an Orokin.

Roathe is, partially, responsible for Adis' death. He kept the war alive, and at the very least enabled Ballas to do what he did. Albrecht is purposefully keeping the protoframes alive. If he wanted to just use them for infested blood samples, he wouldn't have modified them into the strain to keep it slower. Roathe did not seem to care, other than his own cowardice.

Roathe complains about Albrecht not liking his *arranged wife*! Says that he never cares for people he loves. This is the same man who plotted to *kill* the woman he actually loved! Without remorse! Roathe ignores Loid's deal with Albrecht, because Albrecht cannot possibly care about the *manservant.*

People like to make Albrecht more evil than he actually is

Big one here. A huge issue I've noticed is this trend of "Albrecht would shoot a puppy point blank and feel no remorse" type of understandings of Albrecht's character. Somehow, the guy who feels immense amounts of disgust and hatred for himself, for abandoning his family and for what happened to the cavia is an evil bastard who clearly must enjoy what he does.

Shit you not, had a person try to argue that Albrecht must've abused Euleria because "look at how she turned out". Like, not even using the times where Albrecht goes "Mm yeah I did a bad job at parenting her" which genuinely might come from his own self-esteem issues, because he made sure she was taken care of, Loid becoming a sort of step-father to her because of it. This person also went off to say that he is emotionally abusing Loid, and when asked for examples of when this happened, they didn't respond. Another person seems to be adamant that Albrecht shouldn't have involved people in his fight for wally. And, when asked what he'd rather Albrecht do, he said "Make a coalition." And for him to stop using "Systemic violence".

Genuinely what do you mean Albrecht shouldn't involve people but should also form a "coalition"?? Also, what do you mean by systemic violence??? Do we know what that word means?? Genuinely baffled about that one.

Loid is just as bad as Albrecht and is an active enabler

Self explanatory. Loid enables Albrecht's behaviours, even the bad ones.

See: the cavia.

The Cavia should've been euthanised.

I fully believe that Albrecht should have euthanised the Cavia, right after the void incident. This shouldn't be wild of me to say, but swiftly dying, and suffering animals should be put down. It is both ethical and aligns with laboratory procedures, according to Albrecht. How much pain and suffering did the cavia go through because Loid convinced Albrecht that they're better off in cryo? So he could fix it? They literally *died*, the only thing saving them was the alchemical reaction the void had with radiation, which might not even be permanent.

Albrecht probably isn't bisexual and the weird insistence that he is feels kinda homophobic

Also self-explanatory. The only evidence that Albrecht is bisexual is his wife. Which we now know that he did not like, and was forced into a marriage with. "Oh, but he had a child with her!" Is such a bullshit excuse. How many times have gay men ended up with children because that's what society demands? Which is literally how he ended up with a wife in the first place? The only proven and known attraction Albrecht has is for a man. Seemingly, the only attraction he has ever had! It's not a question with Loid, even though we have the same amount of stuff basically, but for the *masculine* one, he must be bisexual! He must be! He cannot simply be gay no way!!!/s

Biggest hot take ever here

I think there might be some misunderstandings here that might be caused by how each player's KIM chats with Roathe appear. It sounds like most of this is being based off of Roathe's villain route. As someone who redeemed him, there's a lot of clashing story elements with the OP but it could also just be more in line with the vague RPG aspect of how it all plays out for each of us. I've read through his flowcharts to get a better understanding of his character. Yes, he can be villanous if you go that route, but I believe we see more of his truer intentions and morals if we go down the redemption arc.

If we're going to use the logic that Roathe is worse than Entrati for killing things, then the Tenno are right up there with them. With Ballas. All Executors. I don't believe it's a fair comparison just because he became a military strategist & soldier. (Doesn't excuse all the wrongdoings done, but Roathe & Entrati seem to be equal in this respect but in their own fields: science and military.)

As far as the game mentioned, Roathe was never made aware what Entrati's serum would do. All we know for certain was that Entrati offered Roathe a second chance at life and Roathe didn't exactly question the syringe being offered. Unless there is a factual mention that I missed, I'd be grateful to learn of it! But Roathe knew the Old War was lost, his voice messages even mention it when he had to lie to his soldiers. Lied to himself. (This is easily missed in KIM chats) There was no hope of winning, so when Entrati suddenly appeared with a syringe, yeah, Roathe took it and it lead to his guilt = cowardice.

His 'love' for Nitohk (use that word lightly) was one-sided. He despised her for what she did, how he was abused and enslaved by her despite his high rank. That was The Orokin Empire. He was likely in love with her esrly on in his career, but the level of abuse he was subjected to? He mentions how complicated that relationship was and that in the end, he truly despised her. I'll disagree over this part because I think something might be missing from OP's chats or a misunderstanding. Might also be a villain vs redemption flowchart issue where Roathe isn't as inclined to share how and what he really felt, so there's missing info and context.

Please take everything with a grain of salt, but I will add that I don't believe Roathe should hold responsibility for Adis' death. Yes, he was Nitohk's 2nd, but it was ultimately the decisions of the Executors (namely Ballas). The Old Peace even confirms that Ballas was the one responsible for setting up Adis/Tenno the way it did. I think there's some confusion in the OP?

If that was the case, then our Tenno is also partly responsible for their actions too. As is Margulis, Valdur, etc...Everyone got used and played under the Empire. I don't believe Roathe is worse than Albrecht. They're both complicated characters in their own way. Entrati had a wife forced upon him in hopes that it'd lessen his obsession with the void and scientific experiements. At the time, he didn't value life the way he does now. His forgiveness seeking and regret shown now is also telling but he's still a scientist and hasn't shown as much change as Roathe. If redeemed, at least he has the mindset to reflect on his actions and move forward in a better light. Even thanks Drifter for helping him steer towards a better moral path. Entrati has yet to even atone properly.

Agreed about Loid being an enabler...as for the cavia? They learned to accept what has happened to them and are trying to move forward. Doesn't mean the harm done to them was right, but it makes for a compelling story and to make us sympathize. Of course, video games will never make everyone 100% happy in its execution, but even issues like the cavia, it's not necessarily what should've been done, but their purpse was to provide context on Entrati's character and a glimpse into more Orokin culture. At least Entrati's mindset at the time. Whereas Loid sought to save them, likely believing it to be the more humane thing to do. Sadly, this isn't real life and we must not expect the same outcomes. It's an extremely sad plot point that will either drive the Warfrsme community to put Entrati on the same pedestal as Ballas, and/or sympathize with these animals and aid them however the game will allow. Unfortunately as stated above, the animals died but the void remade them. They're technically still alive but with consciousness. It would now be unethical to put them down because whether we as gamers like it or not, the cavia have been given a second life. The Old Peace even mentions via Loid when the Murmur intervene in the Sancrum - that the void reverted the Cavia back to animals during that short moment. I might be missing lore something but if the void left the cavia, surely they'd remain alive. Still doesn't make Entrati's decisions acceptable, but this is a mature video game.

Warframe encompasses a lot of uncomfortable topics and issues.

if I understood everything correctly, the Roathe itself cannot use the Dark Refractory due to Infestation, which is why it needs a drifter. but Marie and Lyon? why are they there?.. so, an operator can be thrown into a war zone, and a tramp can't handle one Orokin? damn, it doesn't make any sense.

okay, I'll explain. it's no secret how bad the relationship of the Devil's triad is. Roathe, with the light hand of Entrati, is literally considered the worst evil in the flesh, for which he is often ridiculed and - perhaps - beaten. I doubt very much that he would trust such people to dig into his own head. he needs a blanket and something hot.. something like space soup or cocoa. not extra stress.

I like Marie and Lyon, they're pretty well-written characters, and I love their relationship with each other. and I'm not going to deny that Roathe is a little shit, but! they have to shut their mouths. both. at first, I was amused by their bickering but I'm so damn annoyed right now. this silly blue man didn't do anything to them personally, they just took the word of another blue (but not always) man of dubious reputation. these two bully Roathe in his most vulnerable state, and then wonder why he's not thrilled with their company.