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I need to know: is Jax still queerphobic towards Zooble in the English dub (in his fantasy about bothering a manic Gangle when Zooble abstracts)?
@tadc-crit
TADC EP 9 SPOILERS
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Wrong blog, but I think so. He refers to the funeral as "What better way to honor Zooble's death than to wear something freakish", or smth along those lines, I don't remember the exact words.
Take this with a grain of salt though. I was too busy groaning and covering my eyes from the violation I witnessed on-screen.
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How can two series of the biggest names in indie animation, both led by women, be misogynistic?
I think that happens when you focus only on your favorite character, usually a mens, and forget everything else.
Two biggest names in indie animation? Are you talking about Lackadaisy? Or something else?
But yes, I very much agree. This is why in my rewrite, I'm opting for balanced characterizations and actually satisfying character arc conclusions, not just stroking a purple rabbit's ego and his dick.
I didn't take the time to understand it? Buddy, I've been stressing for the past week BECAUSE I was trying to understand it as much as possible, in every direction. And now, I do.
I know what Goose's vision is now. I know what the plot entails. I know what the characters are and what they all symbolize. I've picked apart the narrative not just in a story-sense but in a symbolic sense, and now I have two different interpretations of the story. One that's bad, and one that's an eye-opener, but a still bit concerning.
You can't just say "media illiteracy hurts" towards me like I haven't been hauling ass in here trying to see the different perspectives as to why the writing ended up being like this.
Because this isn't a case of media illiteracy. This is a case of amateur writing with terrible messaging on the side, and a bunch of plot holes.
But if I were to go off on how much I know about this show, I'd be spoiling the finale. So I'm holding off on it until at least June 5.
Till' then, let's see if you'll still say I'm 'media illiterate' once the post goes up, yeah? I'll even tag you so you don't miss it :)
My point was that its not good to resume this piece of work and the creator as "Misogynist women" and "purple rabit ego stroke". I don't know what episode 9 is, and from what I've heard it's not famous. And to be honest i understand your frustration
But its never good to lash this frustration toward the creator of the show, goose is not a bad person and I'll die on that hill. And i say that because my best friend is scarily similar to her and i understand what she feels.
Hate the last episode how you want, but you can't deny that every episode before it was still a very good piece of work no ? The characters are written like a champ, there the character growth people needs, the animation and even the premise. You can't deny that there still good in this series
Goose doesn't HAVE to give you a good ending, she is her own human with feelings. She's not an object to make a story, and i feel many people forget it
Just remember that the series is not what goosworks choose. Do you know what the death of the author is ? It state that as soon a piece of art get publicly shared, the author has as much power on it than the viewers are. The story is what YOU want it to be, what you felt, the lessons you took out of it. If you don't like ep 9, fine ! Make it not canon and make an alternative ending ! You're really good at that, i loved how you wrote caine's breakdown in your parole AU and i think i said it in an ask.
You are an artist, a writer and a human. Just like goose, so please don't assume things about her and respect everyone. Don't let frustration makes what you are as a human because you're so much more. Like imagine if i come and i say you're racist because there no black characters in your AU ? That would be ridiculous and mean.
I know i ramble about the same thing again and again just to make my point across. And i hope at the end it wasn't confused I'm not as good at writing you are.
I wish you a great day ! And i wish you'll continue with your great AU don't let ep 9 get you down ! If you think its bad make it good
Oh... you haven't seen episode 9..... so you don't know how bad it got..... oooooooof......
First of all I'd like to clear up some things first: I actually understand now if my comment comes across as me agreeing that Goose is mysogynistic. I'm not agreeing on that. I was agreeing on the second statement, where the anon said:
"I think that happens when you focus only on your favorite
character, usually a mens, and forget everything else."
Which is why I said my second statement. Oh, if you've seen episode 9, it's just..... OOF. It's really fucking painful to witness.
WARNING FOR SPOILERS!!!
I've seen people defend the execution of the finale in a way where they say that "the show is trying to show you that Jax ended up alone because of his own actions!!! That's a cautionary tale!!!" when Pomni's actions directly contradicts this statement. Even when Jax abstracts, she chooses to hug him, and tells him to vent. Even when at the cost of being harmed by the effects of abstraction, she holds onto him for dear life.
She shows no concern for Gangle, Zooble and herself in Jax's visceral fantasies. Instead, she becomes the TADC definition of a pick-me girl towards an abusive asshole.
And Jax? Well, Jax doesn't really get any consequences. Sure he abstracts, but he's essentially gotten off scot-free. The narrative has so much focus on him for... what seems to be no reason, until you remember the other reason for why this show exists.
There's just no acknowledgement of his past sins, everyone lets him push them and trample on them. No one stood up to him the way they all stood up to Caine, which is just.... ugh.
And this is barely touching on EVERYTHING that I have problems with on the finale's execution.
... That's why I'm making a rewrite in the first place. There are good ideas in this show that I want to keep. Things I want to preserve from the original vision. Characterizations that I actually like, and hope were expanded upon; but were never done so. But that doesn't change the fact that the message in the original show. IS TOXIC. AS HELL.
It's NOT a good message to send out to an audience as BIG as TADC's.
But yeah, you have a good day as well. Everytime I just think about episode 9 and how much it made everything null I get so mad and then I get so exhausted.
It's like a cycle of unfathomable rage and then being upset that this is how it went down when there were a multitude of ways to deliver the message in a non-harmful way, but it wasn't taken into consideration.
Text of tweet under the cut because it is loooong.
But... Stochastic Parrots.
Timnit Gebru was fired from Google in December 2020 for refusing to retract a research paper, and every single warning that paper made about large language models has now happened at a scale the industry spent 4 years trying to make people forget about.
Her name is Timnit Gebru.
She co-led the Ethical AI team at Google. She co-wrote a paper called "On the Dangers of Stochastic Parrots" with Emily Bender at the University of Washington and two other researchers. The paper was 14 pages long. It was submitted to a top AI ethics conference. And it was the reason Google decided that one of the most senior Black women in AI research could no longer work there.
The story Google told publicly was that she resigned. The story she told, confirmed by 2,695 of her colleagues in an open letter, was that she was fired by email while on vacation because she refused to either retract the paper or remove her name from it.
The paper had not even been published yet.
Here is what she actually wrote, and why every prediction inside it has now come true.
The first warning was about scale itself. Bender and Gebru argued that training ever-larger models on ever-larger scrapes of the internet would produce systems that appeared fluent but had no actual understanding of language. They called these systems stochastic parrots because they would repeat patterns from training data with statistical confidence and zero comprehension. The paper predicted that this apparent intelligence would fool both users and developers into trusting outputs that were structurally incapable of being reliable.
This was 2020. GPT-3 had just come out. The paper predicted the hallucination problem before anyone had a word for it.
The second warning was about bias amplification. The paper documented in detail that internet-scale training data contains systematic overrepresentation of dominant viewpoints and underrepresentation of marginalized ones. The models would not just absorb this bias. They would amplify it, because the optimization process rewards confident outputs, and confidence in language patterns tracks frequency in the training set.
The prediction was that hiring tools built on these models would discriminate against women. That healthcare triage tools would underperform on Black patients. That loan approval systems would entrench inequality while presenting their decisions as neutral algorithmic judgment.
Every one of those things has now been documented in deployment.
Amazon's hiring algorithm penalized resumes that contained the word "women" in any context. Healthcare risk scoring algorithms used by major US hospitals were found to systematically underestimate the medical needs of Black patients. Apple Card's credit algorithm gave wives credit lines 10x lower than their husbands for the same financial profile.
The third warning was about environmental cost. The paper calculated that training a single large language model produced emissions equivalent to the lifetime output of 5 cars. The prediction was that the race to scale would create an environmental footprint that would eventually rival entire industries.
In 2024, Google's emissions were up 48% from 2019, and the company explicitly blamed AI infrastructure. Microsoft's were up 29%, same reason. Both companies have now quietly abandoned the climate commitments they were publicly celebrating the year Gebru was fired.
The fourth warning was about documentation. The paper argued that the training datasets being assembled were too large for anyone to actually audit. Nobody at Google, OpenAI, Meta, or any other lab could tell you with confidence what was in the data their models were trained on. This was not a temporary problem to be solved later. It was a permanent feature of the approach.
In 2023, researchers discovered that the LAION-5B dataset, used to train Stable Diffusion and other major image models, contained thousands of images of child sexual abuse material. The companies that had trained on the dataset had no way of knowing. The paper predicted that category of failure 3 years before it was found.
The fifth warning was the one Google cared about most.
Bender and Gebru argued that the deployment of these systems would centralize linguistic and cultural power in the hands of the small number of companies that could afford to train them. The internet would become a place where the dominant voice was a statistical average of dominant voices, presented as a neutral assistant. Languages underrepresented in the training data would degrade over time as more web content was generated by these systems and fed back into the next training run.
This is now happening in real time. A 2024 study found that 57% of new web content in English is AI-generated or AI-assisted. Researchers studying low-resource languages have documented active degradation in translation quality, because the synthetic content fed back into training is itself worse in those languages.
The paper Google fired her for predicted the model collapse problem before model collapse had a name.
The mechanism behind why this all happened is the part of her work that nobody quotes.
Gebru's argument was not that AI is dangerous in some abstract sci-fi sense. Her argument was that AI is dangerous in a very specific structural sense. The technology was being built by a small group of researchers who shared similar backgrounds, worked at similar companies, and were rewarded for shipping products faster than competitors. The incentive structure made it impossible for safety, ethics, and bias concerns to slow anything down. Anyone inside the system who raised those concerns was either ignored, sidelined, or removed.
She was making that argument from inside Google.
Then Google proved her right by removing her.
The team Google had built to make sure their AI was safe was dismantled in 90 days because they did the job they had been hired to do. Margaret Mitchell, the other co-lead of the Ethical AI team, was fired two months after Gebru for searching through her own emails for evidence of how Gebru had been treated.
Gebru did not stop. She founded DAIR, the Distributed AI Research Institute, in 2021. The mission is to do AI research outside the control of the companies that have a financial interest in not hearing the answers.
Every prediction in the Stochastic Parrots paper has now been validated by deployment. Hallucinations are an industry-wide problem the largest labs cannot solve. Bias amplification has been documented in hiring, healthcare, lending, and criminal justice. Environmental costs are larger than entire small countries. Training data audits remain impossible. Model collapse is an active research crisis at every major lab.
The question worth sitting with is the one almost no one in the industry will say out loud.
Every researcher with the technical credibility to call out these problems watched what happened to her in December 2020 and made a calculation about their own career. The number of people willing to speak publicly about safety and ethics issues inside the major AI labs collapsed after that firing and has not recovered.
The researcher Google fired for warning about exactly what is now happening was right.
The company that fired her is now the second-largest deployer of the technology she warned about.
And the people inside that company who agree with her are not allowed to say so.
How can two series of the biggest names in indie animation, both led by women, be misogynistic?
I think that happens when you focus only on your favorite character, usually a mens, and forget everything else.
Two biggest names in indie animation? Are you talking about Lackadaisy? Or something else?
But yes, I very much agree. This is why in my rewrite, I'm opting for balanced characterizations and actually satisfying character arc conclusions, not just stroking a purple rabbit's ego and his dick.
I didn't take the time to understand it? Buddy, I've been stressing for the past week BECAUSE I was trying to understand it as much as possible, in every direction. And now, I do.
I know what Goose's vision is now. I know what the plot entails. I know what the characters are and what they all symbolize. I've picked apart the narrative not just in a story-sense but in a symbolic sense, and now I have two different interpretations of the story. One that's bad, and one that's an eye-opener, but a still bit concerning.
You can't just say "media illiteracy hurts" towards me like I haven't been hauling ass in here trying to see the different perspectives as to why the writing ended up being like this.
Because this isn't a case of media illiteracy. This is a case of amateur writing with terrible messaging on the side, and a bunch of plot holes.
But if I were to go off on how much I know about this show, I'd be spoiling the finale. So I'm holding off on it until at least June 5.
Till' then, let's see if you'll still say I'm 'media illiterate' once the post goes up, yeah? I'll even tag you so you don't miss it :)
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Hmmm, worst food... I mean, I can't... really think of the worst food I've ever eaten? Mainly because I don't really find food "bad". There are SOME that I think doesn't taste as great, but not to the point of "bleugh"
Though, maybe I could say the Starburst candy? I recently ate one and I spat it out afterwards- HEY WAIT A MINUTE GET THE FUCK BACK HERE
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Hi. What art program(s) do you use? Did you go to art school or study on your own? Thanks! I love your painterly style.
I use Clip Studio Paint! And I didn't go to art school at all, I do it for the love of the game (watching speedpaints and trying to analyze my favorite artist's works and the brushes they use)
I ask this question often and I plan on doing it with more creators I love, but how did you land on any of your AU ideas?
I like hearing the rather complex or very simple way people find their AU concept. (For my AU it was originally just going to be a "Oh this is an actual circus!" AU but I thought that would get overused and made a paradise AU where everyone wants to be in the circus instead.)
A lot of it is because of things that I notice in the show. But some of it is because I have a certain taste, or a concept that I want to explore.
Mystery AU? I was trying to throw an idea on the wall to see what stuck. An exploration of classism (rich and poor), and what would happen if they're all stuck under the same roof, and are on equal footing. All the while, they needed to find something that the "Host" wants, like a big brother/jigsaw combo.
Reunion AU? I wanted an 'escape the circus' concept, but what if Caine was also based on someone real, because I just recently watched a video about how some human braincells can actually be used as a sort of "CPU" for a computer.
Digital Nightmares AU? I'm a big fan of TADC. I'm a big fan of LN. I notice that both concepts thrive on themes of isolation, existential crisis, and psychological horror narrative manifested in a physical space.
I combine, BAM. Digital Nightmares.
Harlequin AU? My golden child? I wanted a sci-fi themed TADC AU. I first tried to do it cyberpunk style, but what I thought didn't work, and wasn't interesting enough. Spent weeks trying to think of something, ANYTHING.
Then, I remember Lies of P. The concept of magical crystals that use soul energy to power steampunk robots called "Puppets" was so interesting.
I snagged some story elements from my pre-existing FNAF AU, The Eternal Eclipse AU-- most notably, the aspect that you need to defeat a gargantuan enemy to revert them to a smaller, more cooperative ally--, and boom. Harlequin AU.
Then because I shipped Showtime and I saw the canon dynamic of Caine and Pomni had so, SO much potential, I decided I wanted it to be a major plot point in my AU.
Souls-like AU? I just pulled the scrapped element of The Harlequin AU being a video game and made it it's own thing. An AU of an AU.
Harlequin: Roleswapped is fairly self-explanatory. Someone asked what would it be like for Puppetmaster Caine and Combat Harlequin Pomni to be switched places, and I obliged.
Lifeline AU? Stemmed from the same thing as Harlequin AU with me trying to find a way to incorporate sci-fi into a TADC AU, but became it's own thing. Abstractions for me, is a severely underutilized concept as if it's only purpose is just a plot device, so I made it an active threat in this draft initially-- in the original drafts, the circus gang were Abstraction hunters; unaware of these beasts being originally human corrupted to become these things, just the fact that "Caine" tells them to hunt the beasts down.
But since canonically, touching abstractions would bring you unimaginable pain, I had an idea: what if, hospital AU? Where abstraction is actually a terminal illness with no known cure? And someone is desperately trying to solve it?
Finally, it's a whole lot more interesting now than the whole "sci-fi abstraction hunters" thing!
Oh, don't forget Showtime. I love Showtime, and the potential philosophical take of their dynamic, so I make it another major plot point; a robot discovering sentience & humanity within himself, finding love with his designated patient-- and the patient finds another reason to live and lives longer than the estimated timeframe she was supposed to have, because it turns out: Abstraction specifically targets hopeless and miserable people.
A sci-fi version of "red string of fate" and "soulmates" where they are bounded for life, and find meaning in a hopeless situation.
But when working in a professional environment, you are expected to be professional. Code breakers are not to be tolerated, no matter if you are the company's latest advanced AI prototype.
Seriously. They have soooooooooooo much potential. And I LOVE exploring it in many ways. I wish the show explored it, but eh. I'm getting sidetracked.
Tiny Robot Caine AU? It's just something I saw from @/pinkieriver. Could not resist the idea of little guy Caine, and the roles being switched.
Parole/Rehab AU? A what if scenario where in episode 8, instead of deletion, Kinger managed to restrain Caine's admin access, so that he could be taught how to be human, by the humans themselves-- while working on their flaws at the same time.
Since the show constantly frames Caine as a person in his own way, and not just the jovial ringmaster he appears to be; the idea of the humans working on their hypocritical behavior with Caine bore fruit because everyone (the narrative, and the fandom) constantly shifts the blame on him, and him only. Which felt... wrong.
Overall, I just have sooooo many ideas bouncing around in my head. Sometimes, when a concept doesn't work for me, I shelf it for later use-- so when I have another concept I'd like to tackle, I can pull some ideas that I have from said shelf to explore how well it would work with the thing I want to work on.
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. But that's the beauty of creation.