Ying

- he's holding Zooble in a way so that their parts don't fall out

- he's not squeezing Gangle so that her fragile ribbons don't get tangled

- he's not putting too much pressure on Ragatha so that she doesn't get ripped apart

- he's only holding Pomni and Jax firmly because their bodies are solid and rubbery

And this scene is right after the torture too. You would think he would be more violent, but no. He wanted to hurt them, not break them.

Caine wanted them to listen. And because they never did, he made them feel what he felt when they poked at his biggest fears and insecurities.

i can recognize white people as a whole have systemically oppressed POC in america, which is where i live 

most people when they make white people jokes only mean the shitty white people and i am not a shitty white person 

The question:

Let's say ModMad wins. What happens to Mr Puzzles? And what if the thing is a bust? What happens to RGB? If it ties then do they both go or continue to exist?

The question link (my original question back when I didn't know too much):

https://www.tumblr.com/smgevealternative/814679003843739648?source=share

Hi again ^^

Okay, so, prefacing this with a little intro : whatever I say isn't necessarily what Mod would say. I might be their translator but we're two distinct people - they're NOT responsible for my words or actions and I'm NOT responsible for theirs. I'm not their underling or right-hand gremlin or whatever.

I can only speculate, and make what-if scenarios. My word is NOT gospel. I'm not the holder of any truths. Things might go in an unforeseen way, and I can't predict the future.

Also, it's not because Mod isn't answering to a question that I'm the next one to turn to down the line. I'm no legal expert or anything - me being the translator doesn't make me hold any special power or knowledge. Like said, I might know Mod and consider them a friend, but I'm not their mouthpiece and they aren't mine.

Now, with that out of the way :

There was an ask I got about this more or less, what could happen if Mod wins, legally. You might wanna read just in case this answers some of your questions ^^

I'll also shove this here, from Mod's post on the situation :

I'mma use that ask to set some records straight, though, for everyone. Those are factual, by the way :

1 : No matter who wins or loses, Mr Puzzles and RGB will NOT disappear or get scrapped. It's flat-out impossible. Erasure of a character is another legal matter altogether, and has nothing to do with the situation at hand. Zero, nada, nix, niet, zilch. Plus, not even Mod wants this to happen, so accusing them of wanting to erase Mr Puzzles is absolutely, factually false. At worst, if Mod wins, one of the options is for Mr Puzzles to undergo a slight design change - that's the 'worst' that could happen to him : simply have some small changes on his face to make it more distinguishable from RGB forever. Mod suggested this design back then :

But anything else could be chosen, depending on what Mod and the SMG4 Crew decide together. That's why we're trying our utmost - we just want the SMG4 Crew/Glitch to talk with Mod so they can find common ground.

Another option, that requires no changes and no delays, is to recognize RGB as Mr Puzzles' inspiration - this would legally fall under "fair use", which is a copyright exception. Mod gets the inspirational credits, recognition of their IP and rights, and that RGB was there first. Since Mod does NOT want any money, even accounts for profit wouldn't have to be paid (unless it's the court/legal teams that decides so, as compensation, but it won't be Mod). This would be the best case scenario for everyone.

What they also could do is a full (legally overseen) video, with both parties involved, as a statement explaining the whole thing and recognizing Mod's rights and IP, that RGB was there first, and has nothing to do with Mr Puzzles. Getting Luke Lerdwichagul/the SMG4 Cew/Glitch to finally come out and tell people to back off, on camera, citing what happened to Mod and telling everyone outloud that RGB was before Mr Puzzles and therefore can't be copying the latter. Dunno if that one's possible but it's an option I've thought about.

In any case, it's not for me to decide. I can just offer opinions.

So, straight up fact : Mr Puzzles will be around no matter what. RGB will be around no matter what. Both character will de-facto keep coexisting. The reason why it's Mr Puzzles that'll have to change IF he changes is because chronogically, RGB's existence and copyright were first, and predate Mr Puzzles' by 10 years at least. The same goes for whatever invention or device that has been created : the credits always go to the ones who put it first (which is why discoveries of inventions predating the other one, or stolen credits, are rampant), that's the definition of Intellectual, Artistic and Innovative Property (IP).

Also, it's Sarah Jolley/Modmad that received hatemail, so... yeah. If Mr Puzzles doesn't change, or nothing is done, this all will start all over again.

2 : No matter who wins or loses, Calling All Villains and The Property of Hate will still be around. No one wants to cancel any shows. Erasure of a show/artistic production is a complete different matter, and again, one that has sheer fat NOTHING to do with the situation at hand. And, once more, Mod does NOT want to cancel any shows, and neither do we. The 'worst' that could happen to CAV is a delay IF Mr Puzzles changes and they have to redo the scenes with the changed version. But it's 3D animation, so while not easy, it's still feasible (touched upon an answer to some asks here), especially if it's still fresh in production. Plus, it's already a thing animated series are doing : upgrading models, changing props, scrapping or redoing scenes, etc... hence some delays at times. CAV has 0 chances of getting cancelled, no matter what.

Fact, though : TPoH is currently on hiatus. And cancel culture is a thing. So if it's the bigger company deciding they'll swallow the smaller indie creator, like it happened so many times through history... Yeah. Hence why Mod tried to contact SMG4/Glitch in the first place, outside of stopping the harrassment :

Factually, TPoH is more at risks of stopping or dropping off the grid than CAV ever will. I mean, which one of those is on hiatus now due to the situation and the author having been harrassed beyond what's even inhumane, now ?

Yeah.

There's a sheer power inbalance in this situation : one is a production studio, the other an indie cartoonist. And an indie cartoonist needs every visibility point they can have, especially if they live from their webcomic, and especially if they're a disabled person living from their webcomic - there's not many ways you can make money while having EDS (which also means, chronic pains. Again, not a sob-story, but a straight-up fact).

So if anyone who sees RGB thinks it's Mr Puzzles or vice-versa, they're gonna buy Mr Puzzles merch and wonder why this guy has eyes, instead of RGB merch. Which means money rerouted away from Mod. Money they need to live and for their general livelihood, as a person. Which, for an indie cartoonist, is bad. It's like giving the credits on a passed test - and thus the degree - to the wrong person between two because they both wrote with a green pen out of all of them.

Visibility points are crucial for an indie artist. (Explained in full here in this ask and why it can be a problem)

Also, let's not mix up two things : Mod doesn't want money as any compensation from the situation, but Mod still needs money to live just like all of us. Those two statements don't contradict each other (and those who say that are of extremely bad faith). There's a difference between earning money from your job (which is currently in peril for Mod given the situation) and getting handed money juridically as legal compensation for perceived damages (and if it happens, it'll be the court's proceduring, not something Mod wants).

Straight up fact : while CAV has 0 chances of disappearing no matter what, TPoH does have chances of being around but on hiatus indefinitely if nothing is done, meaning someone's job, wellbeing and livelihood is in danger, versus a production that will, at the very worst, suffer a delay.

"Yeah but what if the person just pulls themself together and simply gets over it" is a pretty insensitive line of thinking - that's just "shut up and stop rocking the boat, if I don't see it the problem doesn't exist" mentality. Also, this has already been tried. For 2 years. What everyone sees right now are the results of that attempt to "ignore it" : the hate, which had never really stopped, came back in a new peak with the announcement of Calling All Villains. Now imagine that every episode of CAV, every merch announcement, every even featuring Mr Puzzles...

Yeah. Not even a god could go through that without breaking.

3 : No matter who wins or loses, the TPoH-side will receive hate no matter what. Using the argument of "it'll get worse" is pretty chuckle-worthy, actually : we're already at square "worse". Mod has been drowning in hate since 2 years. People will get pissed and feel self-entitled whatever the case, it's just what they'll say that will change (covered in this ask). And let's be real : people saying that are just worried they won't have their precious entertainment, they're not truly worried about a person's wellbeing - or, maybe, just the backlash if that person's wellbeing would go for the very worst (which already almost happened). It's just to not feel guilty. So, it's either a continous stream of hate, or one last time, one last wave, one last push, because something was done in order to quell it, and/or new hate can't spawn thanks to Mr Puzzles being more distinguishable from RGB forever. And we'll finally ALL be at peace.

Straight up fact : no matter the case, it will always be easier for Glitch/SMG4, in ANY situation. Not for Mod, or the TPoH-side. One of the two has gone through sheer trauma and continuous hatred, and will need to heal from it all. And it's not Glitch/SMG4.

So, your question : "Let's say ModMad wins. What happens to Mr Puzzles? And what if the thing is a bust? What happens to RGB? If it ties then do they both go or continue to exist?"

What would happen to Mr Puzzles (or RGB) ? => At 'worst' (for SMG4), small physical changes to Mr Puzzles' face. But Mr Puzzles and his show would still be around. For SMG4 fans and the SMG4 Crew : they'll have to wait some kind of delay, and Mr Puzzles will change a small bit. His backstory and personality will remain untouched. A statement might need to be made, credits might need to be given. Maybe some time and money indirectly lost (like it would happen with a classic scene reworking), and they can bounce back more easily from that. For TPoH fans and most of all, Mod : the hate comes in one last wave, and then finally stops. Mod will finally have peace, and be able to heal and recover. Their livelihood and wellbeing are saved. TPoH will surely come out of hiatus, once Mod feels better.

=> At 'best' (for TPoH), well, nothing changes, Mr Puzzles and his show would still around. For SMG4 fans and the SMG4 Crew : changes nothing for them. SMG4 might need to make a statement, or give Mod inspirational credits. No delays. No changes to Mr Puzzles. For TPoH fans and most of all, Mod : the hate comes in one last wave, and then finally stops. Mod will finally have peace, and be able to heal and recover. Their livelihood and wellbeing are saved. TPoH will surely come out of hiatus, once Mod feels better.

=> At 'nothing', well, nothing changes. Mr Puzzles and his show would still be around... but RGB and TPoH might not continue. For SMG4 fans and the SMG4 Crew : they keep doing what they're currently doing. No changes. For TPoH fans and Mod : the hate never stops. Mod's situation doesn't improve. TPoH is still on hiatus.

=> At 'worst' (for TPoH) or 'best' (for SMG4), Mod loses, and Mr Puzzles and his show would still be around... but RGB and TPoH might not. For SMG4 and the SMG4 Crew : they keep doing what they're currently doing. No changes. For TPoH fans and Mod : the hate never stops. Mod's situation doesn't improve. TPoH is still on hiatus.

Spelling it out here :

SMG4-side's worst is small changes and a delay of a show and character that have absolutely 0 chances of getting cancelled. The absolute worst case scenario (that even I hope won't happen) is IF it was found to be intentional plagiarism, but that's not likely to happen - either it's not intentional, or it's indeed a complete coincidence - and even if it was, Mr Puzzles and his show would still be around, the SMG4 Crew will just lose time and money to pay damages and change Mr Puzzles. At the very worst, they might lose time and money - things they can quickly get back as a production studio.

TPoH-side's worst is, bluntly put, we might lose someone. And even if we don't lose them, that someone loses livelihood and wellbeing. That's not replaceable, and non-negotiable.

So, yeah. The SMG4 fans have actually nothing to lose - they're in the comfiest position out of us all ! And if someone would chose entertainment and a fictional character over a real person's well-being because they're not capable to wait a bit IF they ever have to wait... that's self-entitlement.

There are two constants in all cases : Mr Puzzles and his show will still be there. And the TPoH-side will still receive hate.

So if any SMG4 "fan" is whining, they don't even know how lucky they are.