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Hi, this is my info. My pronouns are she/her. I'm from 🇦🇷. On my blog, you're allowed to: post HH and Epic headcanons, and possibly other fandoms, write critics, and also ask questions. However, it's not allowed to come to the blog and talk about politics (trust me, I don't want a Trojan War; if it happens, I'll block you). Insults and people who come here to fight are also not welcome. This is a blog for giving opinions; we may not always agree, but I hope you understand why I say this.

#my personal rambling #my blog

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krispypostdestiny

The Entertainingly Detestable wiki highlights the double standards Hazbin Hotel operates on (Part 2).

Let’s do Adam vs. Vox this time.

1. Vox is sympathized with and Adam is dehumanized

When Vox gets rejected and ridiculed by Alastor, it’s planted in a sympathetic light. Like the show encourages you to feel bad for him. But that’s incredibly ridiculous after you look at Vox’s past.

Before he even meet Alastor, Vox was a serial killer who claimed at least 8 victims just to climb the media hierarchy when he was alive (and yes, I counted). And expressed absolutely no remorse for it. His rejection should not have been played for sympathy. It should have been played for karma.

Watch the music video and count for yourself: https://youtu.be/GJQpBUcKhTk?is=euQP32KsIMlZEhui

Meanwhile any potential tragedies from Adam’s background is stripped away to keep him completely irredeemable. Adam is the First Man. His wife, Eve was tempted by Lucifer, he lost Eden, he lost his son, Abel to murder which was committed by his other son, Cain, he loses Cain to banishment, and he had to watch humanity descend lower and lower into corruption. And yet all the show does is depict Adam as this toxic and sadistic monster. He never got any soft/emotional moments that lasted more than a few seconds. Even then, his soft moments (like his affection towards Lute) is kept as minor or minuscule moments.

Pay attention to the length of the video and how long both soft or emotional character moments last.

2. Vox is allowed to have “valid points” but Adam isn’t

Vox is praised for calling out Heaven’s actions and standing up for the sinners even though it’s very obvious that he’s only doing this to achieve his own goals. Vox does not care about the sinners whatsoever. He’s just using them to further his own agenda.

However, Adam is never allowed to have point once. Instead, his reasoning for being against Charlie is because he finds killing sinners to be entertaining. Never mind the fact that the majority of sinners are filled with complete scumbags who have never shown any remorse for their actions. Never mind the fact that countless sinners (like Vox) have produced victims who are probably living in Heaven right now. Never mind the fact that the show has shown sinners killing and eating each other in broad daylight. Never mind the fact that most of them had decades or centuries to reflect on their actions but chose not to. But yeah, I’m sure you get I’m trying to say. Adam is technically correct when he said the sinners had their chance to be better. Adam is portrayed as this sadistic manic just so Charlie doesn’t have to answer difficult questions about redeeming sinners.

3. The Redemption Double Standards

Vox is allowed to be a serial killer on Earth, brainwash Angel Dust into being a spy which traumatizes him so badly that he decides to return to his abuser out of guilt, and nearly destroy the pentagram just to kill Alastor and still be set up for a “humbled” arc/possible redemption arc in season three.

While on the other hand, Adam is killed off and denied any chance at having any scene where he reflects on his actions. Instead, he’s executed by Nifty as a joke and demonized by the narrative just so the protagonist’s moral superiority goes unchallenged.

Keep in mind that Vox has never once apologized for anything he’s done after he was defeated. Not even to his friends. Instead, he has the audacity to ask about his approval rating. Why does Vox have the potential to be redeemed but Adam was just a lost cause? It makes no sense.

The Hellaverse has a real favoritism problem and it’s hurting the story of both Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss.

@almacambiondaughterofsaleos @thinker257

Links: https://entertainingly-detestable.fandom.com/wiki/Vox

So, I was playin' this gig, and for some fucking reason this virtue chick was digging on the drummer, and it's like, do you know who I am? I

Trust us with your everything!Vox's catchphrase and VoxTek's motto. Vox to the other Vees about his end goal to rule both Heaven and Hell, r

thinker257

I agree with you again, my friend. It's also worth clarifying that Charlie chose to fight Adam in the hotel battle, which was avoidable if Sera had stopped Adam or if Lucifer had intervened earlier instead of at the last second. But for that to happen, Charlie should have warned him. I'm fed up with people justifying the battle as self-defense when she could have taken another option, like the "pacifist" one she claims to be. Instead, she chose the most violent and worst option (using cannibals). A sensible person from Heaven wouldn't trust her or her group knowing what she did. Aang is a better pacifist than her. Even when he had Ozai at his mercy, he chose to spare his life, but he didn't let his guard down and took away his powers so he could never hurt anyone again. Furthermore, none of his friends tried to kill Ozai; instead, they put him in jail. But anyway, back to the original show, the same Charlie who was capable of stabbing Adam opted to make a plan with drawings to stop Vox 🙄🙄 and didn't even use her demonic form to stop the weapon or help Alastor in the fight and make Vox stop the weapon, or at least use her magic to protect "her people" from the beam. She only remembered her powers when Emily used her Seraph magic to stop the weapon. And Charlie, being the naive girl she is, believes it was because of the "power of friendship" that everyone came together, when obviously the Overlords didn't want to die. But anyway, my point is how the protagonist prefers to fight when it's the angels who oppose her (especially if it's her mother's ex, demonized in her bedtime story), but she doesn't care enough about the actions of sinners to put a stop to them when things get out of control (she did nothing when Vox openly declared war on Heaven and instead chose to yell at her father and girlfriend). So, what do you think of what I said?

#vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critical #hellaverse criticism #charlie critical #my personal rambling

krispypostdestiny

The Entertainingly Detestable wiki highlights the double standards Hazbin Hotel operates on.

Here why’s. Let’s do Adam vs. Valentino.

1. It manipulates sympathy.

Valentino gets humanized by season two. The wiki states that Valentino gets played for minor sympathy because he’s hurt that Vox is ignoring him. The sexually abusive Overlord gets handed emotional framing. While on the other hand, Adam’s humanity gets erased. Adam expressed genuine affection for Lute (he fist bumps her to congratulate her, he smiles at her softly before he dies), but it’s ultimately dismissed by the narrative and the wiki to make him 100% hateable. The wiki states in the “What Makes Him Detestable?” section that he constantly insults and mistreats Lute. Valentino has literally destroyed Velvette’s property, attacks Velvette and Vox’s assistants in childish/violent fits, and threw a glass cup at Vox’s face in anger yet Adam (the literal Father of Humanity) is the only one who’s deprived of sympathy.

2. The “Laughably Evil” label

The wiki proves that the show sanitizes the abuse of Valentino with its description of Valentino’s season 2 moments due to being a favorite character.

A direct quote from the wiki:

“He becomes very laughably evil, especially in the second season. One of his most memorable moments is when he yells at Vox with a working-class accent... comically hit him and break his screen."

Valentino’s violence and narcissistic tendencies is framed as dark comedy. He’s allowed to torture Angel Dust in one scene and be funny in another because he’s a stylish, marketable demon sinner despite opposing the main cast. Adam has comedic moments but it’s never treated with affection because he opposes the main cast but he’s not a stylish, marketable demon.

Notice how Adam’s (left) description of comedic moments is far less detailed than Valentino’s (right)

3. Valentino benefits from plot protection

The conclusion of Valentino’s entry in the wiki is horrific.

“After Vox's defeat, the 666 News paints him as the sole savior of Hell, and he becomes the new CEO of VoxTek, with Angel Dust returning to work under him..."

Vox gets taken down, but Valentino gains more power and Angel Dust is back in his clutches. Valentino contributed to the near destruction of half of Pentagram City and received little to no punishment for it. So he technically got rewarded for his actions. Adam dies a pathetic and brutal death and gets mocked while the unrepentant serial rapist gets to be the new boss of an empire and takes full credit for saving Pentagram City.

It seems like actual committed atrocities don’t matter as long as you are a favored character and considered “funny”.

@almacambiondaughterofsaleos @thinker257

Links: https://entertainingly-detestable.fandom.com/wiki/Adam_(Hellaverse)

✓ Valentino is a major antagonist in the adult animated musical dark comedy series Hazbin Hotel, serving as a major antagonist in Season 1 a

So, I was playin' this gig, and for some fucking reason this virtue chick was digging on the drummer, and it's like, do you know who I am? I

thinker257

I applaud your amazing arguments. And I couldn't agree with you more. I was only surprised (in a worrying way) by how some people actually like Valentino and even justify him when he's just a spoiled, abusive jerk (of the worst kind), and his most well-known victim is Angel Dust, one of the main characters. If they defeat him, they save Angel, but after that, Valentino has nothing to contribute to the plot. In Adam's case, he has much more to contribute in the plot: he's the oldest human being, he's known the Morningstars from the beginning and witnessed their betrayal, he lived in Eden for a short time before losing it and living on Primal Earth with his many children and his wife, watching as sin increasingly corrupted his descendants, and he worked hard to reach Heaven, since it wasn't because he was "the favorite" (not even angels control judgment to ascend to Heaven). Furthermore, Adam could have been a more interesting antagonistic force, showing why he so fervently opposed redemption instead of something as simple as "it's entertaining." Examples of this could have included the attack of sinners and demons on Earth or the irreversible damage the sinners inflicted on the winners. In fanfiction, at least, Adam is explored and given more nuance.

redjoey1992

Really? Are we seriously comparing Blitzø to Cinderella right now? The woman was abused and humiliated by her step-family and she was going to the ball just to enjoy herself. What's Blitzø's excuse?

steamgirldoz619

Yo ví esta publicación en X y dije: wey, no.

Cenicienta fue sirvienta de su madrastra y hermanastras, el hada madrina le da ropa bonita para ir al baile y enamorarse del príncipe que la libera al buscarla gracias a que a ella se le cae la zapatilla de cristal.

En las siguientes películas muestran a Cenicienta incómoda tratando de acostumbrarse a su nueva vida como esposa del príncipe y ayudando a su hermanastra Anastasia a ser mejor persona para poder ser feliz con el hombre que ama y desafiando a su madre.

O de que su madrastra roba la varita del hada madrina para cambiar la historia y deberá luchar para recuperar su vida y al príncipe.

Blitzø conoce a Stolas de niños y aunque es mostrado como un recuerdo "tierno" es en realidad trata de personas (o de un Imp pequeño en este caso). Convivieron por un día y veinticinco años después se reencuentran cuando Blitzø va al palacio de Stolas a robar el Grimorio, pero el pajarraco pensó que fue para violarlo...

Stolas, ¿Qué carajos pasa por tu mente? Y se supone que él es "víctima" de violación por Stella y eso lo dijo de "broma". Blitzø le da lo que quiere por lástima, sin imaginarse que sería su condena porque Stolas le impondría el trato de tener sexo cada luna llena por el "préstamo" del Grimorio, luego es tachado como el "malo" por no aceptar los sentimientos del búho UwU y lamentablemente es lobotomizado para "amar" al plumero con patas. Todos olvidan que Stolas lo trató de la mierda y que tenía todo el derecho a no corresponder.

Repitan conmigo: Cenicienta y Blitzø NO se parecen. Cenicienta SÍ tiene a un hombre que de verdad la ama y Blitzø fue SATANIZADO Y LOBOTOMIZADO para estar con su abusador

thinker257

Otra cosa que agregar a Cenicienta 3 es que el príncipe sabe cuando tiene a la persona indicada de frente. Por ejemplo cuando bailo con Anastacia no sintió nada, incluso si fue afectado por el hechizo de la madrastra. Y cuando se da cuenta que Cenicienta era la chica con la que bailo (por aviso de los ratones) entonces el va a buscarla antes de que se vaya de su barco y cuando se tocan las manos es que el sabe que ella fue la persona con la que bailo y se enamoro, rompiendo el hechizo. En casi el final, él se da cuenta que la Cenicienta vestida de novia (Anastacia) es falsa y Anastacia al final se niega a casarse con él ya que como le dijo el rey el amor es un sentimiento hermoso que no se debe forzar y Anastacia solo quiere ser amada de verdad, a diferencia de su madre que tanto quería que su hija se casara con el príncipe por el estatus y poder que representa.

almacambiondaughterofsaleos

{Wrote this based on fight that sinner Adam had with Lucifer, LOVE your posts! Sorry, if it’s not good, I made this on my notes app.}

[Charlie somehow got both Eve and Lucifer in the same room, hoping that they could “apologize and maybe become friends” after all these years. Her dad was hesitant about the idea but agreed nonetheless. She gathered everyone in the hotel, including the newly sinner, Adam to watch the moment. Little does she know about what would unfold.]

Lucifer (Gripping his hat to his chest, voice low): Eve, I feel bad for what happened back then… With the forbidden fruit.

Eve (Emotionless, raising a eyebrow): So, you’re apologizing..?

Lucifer (Showing a small, hopeful smile): Y-Yes, I’m sorry for doing that you.

Eve: Ok, I don’t forgive you.

[His smile immediately drops, maybe he heard her wrong.]

Lucifer (confused): Eve, I said I'm sorry.

Eve (turning away from him): Yeah and I do NOT forgive you.

[The years worth of guilt felt heavy in his chest, like a anchor pulling him down into a bottomless pit.]

Lucifer (slowly walking up to her): Look, I understand your anger but-

Eve (snapped head back at him, eyes blood red with rage): YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND MY ANGER!!!

[Her voice shook the room, causing a few glass items to crack. Silence filled the room once more.]

Eve (Tears running down her face): If you did… YOU wouldn’t be right now. And by the way, I never forgave you all those years ago… So, DON’T expect me to forgive you now, you monster…

[Eve fades into the darkness without a another word, leaving him alone with his guilt thoughts, teleporting away while putting back on his hat. Charlie and the others (except for Adam) were stunned in shock and fear from what happened in front of them. The first man was the first one to leave to search and comfort his wife.]

{I hope you like it and get all the references!}

Like that only adam would understand her.

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Hi, I loved @chaotic-ghost666 idea, so I decided to add a hypothetical dialogue. Adam: "Eve, honey, are you here?" Adam sees Eve sitting down. Adam approaches carefully: "Can I stay here?" Eve doesn't say anything but nods silently. Adam takes a seat and notices a certain familiarity. Eve: "Do you remember this place? It was here where we made our first home. It's not like that pompous palace those idiots had, but despite the hardships, it feels cozy, don't you think?" Adam: "Yes, this was our home, and we watched our little ones grow up. Being parents was crazy, wasn't it?" Eve: "I remember everything about our children, both the good memories and the painful ones"—she shows an illusion of an angry Cain while Abel is sad, and Adam is surprised and saddened by the memory—Cain: "Are you saying you lost paradise because you ate that damn fruit? What the hell were you thinking? We could have lived without problems, and I wouldn't have had to work like a donkey if you hadn't listened to those idiots!!!" The illusion of Cain turns and says to Eve, "I hope you're happy about your 'free will' , mother, because we're all doomed because of you." Adam tries to reply, but the illusion turns and says, "And I hope you're happy too, Father, because it's also your fault we're in this place. I'm leaving." Abel's illusion follows Cain, trying to speak, but it all fades away. Eve, after a period of silence, speaks to Adam: "I remember you and I argued when we told them the story of Eden, because I was worried about their reaction. But in the end, you said we both ate the fruit because of the Morningstars' deceptions. It didn't make sense to blame each other, and I believed you since they filled me with lies to make me disobey our Creator. *Sigh*... You must admit that Cain was right then... I was the fool who listened to the Morningstars, and out of fear of losing you, I made you eat the fruit. If it weren't for that, you and I would never have lost our Paradise, Cain would never have experienced anger and would never have killed Abel, and we would never have seen our children suffer. And now you've fallen from Heaven's grace after so long. Sometimes I wonder if it would have been better if you had never eaten the fruit and had stayed in the paradise with another wife who hadn't been corrupted. Perhaps it would have been better if you had let me rot with my sin." Adam embraces her and says gently, "Eve, my little rib, I never regretted being by your side. I am your husband, and you are the love of my life." Eve returns his embrace, and Adam calmly says, "I too decided to eat that fruit, just like you. The blame for our children's fall is also mine. Cain said all that out of anger. While it's true we would have lived in Eden, that would have been temporary, since the angels revealed to me that they were preparing us to live on the primordial Earth when we were ready. Furthermore, we strived to guide our descendants, and some of them reached Paradise. And it seems the daughter of those fools wants to help. She's a little disoriented, but if one soul could ascend, perhaps all is not lost for us. You don't have to carry all of this alone. I'm here, and I assure you that neither Heaven nor Hell will ever be able to separate us again. Evie, my beautiful wife, loyal and fierce as a lioness, I love you with all my heart, and I will never leave your side." Moved, Eve replies, "I love you with all my heart too, Addy. You are strong as a rock, and whenever I leaned on you, I never fell in the turbulence of this life, and you're as loving as a giant teddy bear. Lilith can keep that clown Lucifer, I choose you a thousand times over." And in the end, they kiss, unaware that the Hazbin group went to look for Eve and Adam. For the dialogue (except for the ending), I based it on the scene with Pearl and Steven from Steven Universe, and for the Cain scene, I based it on the scene from the novel Genesis. I hope you like it.

#my personal rambling #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel headcanon #hazbin adam #hazbin hotel au #hazbin eve #hazbin cain #hazbin abel #hazbin hotel adam #hazbin hotel eve #adam x eve

coaxol0tl

Adam, Eve & their kids (my ocs)

Alright, so, here are some random facts from my AU:

Cain’s greatest passion in life is plant husbandry… Too bad part of his curse entails that any attempts to cultivate plant life means they will simply decay away in short order. This has caused him no shortage of grief in his life and was a major contributor to his depression over the years. The closest he can do to gardening these days is mowing the lawn and as such he’s pretty damn protective over his yard.

Given his curse “negates death”, Cain can’t get drunk under the principle alcohol consumption could lead to alcohol poisoning, thus it simply dissipates in his bloodstream upon consumption. To this end, Cain has gotten… creative with his drinks of choice, mixing up cocktails using whatever he’s got under the sink and letting it dissolve his innards just to feel something.

Okay, so my plan for the First Family kids goes that Cain is the oldest with Aclima being his younger twin sister by a few minutes, while Abel is roughly two years younger than them and Seth is roughly 18-19 years the twins’ junior (he was a baby when Cain murdered Abel and was subsequently banished). Beyond the core four, Adam and Eve had quite a bit of kids beyond them, though I can’t say there are any plans to spotlight them.

On the subject of early man here, my idea was that Adam, Lilith, and Eve were meant to be the template by which the rest of humanity would have been created. After The Fall the plan kinda had to be implemented with less than ideal materials and that’s how early man came about. It’s here where we get the likes of Azura (who comes from a clan of early humans that were on friendly terms with the family).

In keeping with the musical theming of Ad and Abel, the rest of the family have genres they’re associated with, those being Country (Cain, in keeping with his earthy connections), Punk Rock (Aclima, who takes the most after their father), and Psychedelic (Seth and Azura, who are both deeply introspective and philosophical).

Bonus: Eve/Roo has a fondness for Sea Shanties and it’s probably the last thing any soul unfortunate enough to reach her end up hearing.

Ira, Cain’s first wife in this AU, and Enoch both managed to make it to Heaven after their respective deaths. While the latter managed to ascend to the position of Metatron and is one of Heaven’s highest ranking officials, the former joined in the battle against Hell during the Antediluvian War and unfortunately suffered her final death at the hands of a demon lord. So, yeah, even if Cain made it to Heaven he’d never reunite with his wife and his son is too busy to properly reunite with.

Given Adam’s connection to the animals of the world back in Eden and the changes brought on by The Fall, putting meat on the table was pretty daunting starting out. Ultimately, he did manage to harden his heart and resolve enough to hunt for his wife and kids, but all acts of butchering were left to Eve, who took to doing so with unnerving ease. That said, Eve did hunt every so often and when she did it was quite the sight as she had the tendency to stalk prey until it couldn’t run away or fight back, all the while never breaking eye contact.

On a similar note as the above, Eve was the parent the kids feared catching the ire of the most, not because Adam was particularly lenient, but rather because his punishments insured his kids never made the same mistake twice, whereas Eve’s made them regret ever doing them.

Finally, the last thing I wanted to note is that, for better or worse, Charlie actually reminds Cain of Ira, which contributes considerably to his mixed emotions on the Princess.

👏👏I loved everything you wrote, it's a fantastic headcanon. I also realized we agree on some things I'd thought about: the order of the boys (I'm still undecided about whether to have Seth born at the moment of the murder or 100 years later, maybe less), Azura's origin (I had thought of her as Seth's wife but not Adam's daughter; I based it on Saphiro's AU, but to be honest, I had no idea how she would be created), and the war (I have this idea that it happened before the flood, since the angels had to seal the entrance from Hell to the human world until Asmodeus' crystals appeared, but I haven't explored it much 😅). By the way, I like the idea of Eve as a mother you don't want to upset (kind of like Lois from Malcolm in the Middle). Keep up the great work

#my personal rambling #hazbin hotel headcanon #hazbin hotel au #hazbin first family

angelcakes1947

Hazbin s3 bingo card

Remember that post I did about Lilith, "fall little Eve, bird fall"? It occurred to me that for Eve (being Roo), the song "Die for Me" by VIllain Wendy would be perfect. And similar to Wendy, Eve loves Adam madly (and that, plus Roo's effect on her, the fact that God told her she would feel desire for her husband, and that Eve doesn't want Adam to leave her again), gives you the perfect recipe for Eve to want Adam to be corrupted by evil just like her. But in the end, she backs down in a final moment of humanity, since being corrupted by the same evil was horrible for her, and she doesn't want her husband to go through the same thing.

#my personal rambling #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel headcanon #youtube #hazbin hotel au #hazbin adam #hazbin eve #hazbin hotel eve #hazbin hotel adam #hazbin hotel roo

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digitaltrapdigitalcircusocblog

Chump Vaggie Looking Like A Sociopath When Adam Was Stabbed Vs Chad Gangle Having Mixed Feelings On Jax Abstracting Even Though He Was An Abusive Pos To Her

You know it never has sat well with me how Vaggie looks so happy seeing Adam getting stabbed by Nifty. Because it reeks of narrative hypocrisy that it's bad for Adam to take glee in killing rapists, sex traffickers, arsonists, serial killers, gangsters, enslavers, cannibals, and other sort of scumbag yet we have to think Vaggie is justified in looking sociopathic when her former boss is killed off. It really shows the narrative has a black and white position that the heroes do things it's justified but if a villain does it it's good. Overall, Adam's death doesn't feel cathartic but a product of a biased and mean spirited narrative that demonizes a figure in Bible theology that doesn't deserve it and makes Vaggie come off as a b word. It's a series that wants to claim it's about redemption but closes it on a character the narrative has a hate boner for and yet thinks the dredges of hell deserve it more. However, Gangle's tears over Jax reflects the series' nuanced depiction of an abusive figure who has hurt and harassed her in the past. However, she still thinks it's tragic he abstracted and is even validated for her mixed feelings. It feels more justified than Vaggie's joyful glee at Adam who is just made to be a one note strawman for the bs that sinners are entitled to redemption regardless of what they have done. Jax, however, is made to be a bad person with a tragic past and we are allowed to see how all the others are negatively affected by it even if they didn't like him. That's not the case with Adam where everyone is callous about his death because the narrative thinks everyone is better without him even though he's the first man and when you think about it he shouldn't be portray unsympathetically due to the baggage he's had to go through when you remember the Bible. I think the biggest difference between how these demises were handled and the reactions is because one was treated with the levity it was and the other was treated like a cheap pandering self-indulgent thrill. I still feel impact on how Gangle reactions while I want to slap Vaggie hard despite how Adam abused her because she comes off as just as bad as him.

calyroco

I can't talk about TADC's handling of abuse, since I haven't watched it, so I'll focus on the Hazbin side of things:

I think a big reason why Adam's doesn't come off as cathartic is that not only is there very little focus on how Vaggi's time as an exorcist hurt her via something like implied trauma responses before the reveal, but even after the reveal, the show never opens up that much about what life as a soldier was for her. You can assume her strong loyalty to Charlie is rooted in her soldier background, but the story just treats her like a regular old devoted lover, who just sometimes goes overboard. It only touches on how this mindset makes her feel bad once before we get to the end of the first season where the story is having another even more poorly written character basically tell her that making another person into your life's purpose is great actually and then her overly-devoted behavior never comes up as a problem again. Husk doesn't even bring up how she seems to have no wants or goals outside of Charlie and what Charlie wants when he's info dumping about what the issue of each person at the hotel is, which makes me even more convinced that the writers don't think that's a big character flaw.

We don't even see how Adam personally abused her until season 2 in a really short flashback, and he is shown to have abused her alongside Lute, who Vaggi was willing to spare, so now we as viewers are left wondering where is Vaggi's line? When is murder too far for her?

She's happy to see one abuser die, but the other one living is fine even though the abuser Vaggi spared has been shown to be more bloodthirsty than the one who died to the point that the dead abuser told the surviving abuser to tone it down???

It's not like Vaggi couldn't have known Lute was that bad, in which case I'd cut her some slack. Season 2 indicates her time with Lute even before being kicked out of the army was traumatic, so she knows Lute is a cruel person and let her live to presumably keep abusing any soldiers who didn't die in the season 1 battle. The narrative never really thoughtfully delves into Vaggi's mindset regarding murder, so her reaction to Adam's death never has the chance to become cathartic even on a rewatch; it's just confusing from a character writing standpoint

I'd have loved to see Vaggi have complicated feelings about Adam that got explored. Like for example maybe she's glad that him being dead means he can't hurt her or her new friends anymore, but to her he also represents an era of a more simplistic view of life she had before she started questioning her society and got cast out. So she can feel relieved, but won't feel too happy about his death because him being dead brings into focus all of the good parts of life she lost again. There's a part of her mind that wonders if maybe he could've changed if he'd lived. If maybe the people who hurt her could go on to be better than what they were before the way she did, if only she'd let them live in their broken,defeated state and be forced to grow from that instead of killing one of them. If by killing him instead of sparing him, she's just left a space for an even worse person to take his spot. Those sort of deep, hard to easily answer questions.

Unfortunately, that sort of character exploration requires the narrative to care about Vaggi's non-Charlie thoughts,and that's not happening anytime soon

almacambiondaughterofsaleos

This. Adam's death is to just hammer to make it like he's getting his just desserts. It's just to again give into Viv's agenda of her hate boner for the first man. And Vaggie is just a tool to be used for her shallow bashing of him.

thinker257

Another opinion I'll add is that I saw a series that better portrays how you react to the death of someone who was a complete wretch. I watched Zerocalcare's latest series. I won't give away any major spoilers; see it for yourselves—it's on YouTube, there are some clips (I watched it dubbed in Spanish; the original language is Italian). None of the protagonists (not even the killer) seem happy, nor is there a single broad smile; in fact, there are many reactions. Perhaps this is because Zerocalcare's series demonstrate something that Vivziepop needs to improve: believable human reactions and endearing, relatable characters.

#hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #zerocalcare

You know even though we know nothing about Lilith (I prefer that they don't portray her as an innocent saint, but rather as a complex character). But if they make her a villain, I'd love for her to be like the evil version of Tinker Bell from a song I heard. Imagine her singing "fall little Eve bird fall" similar to "fall little Wendy bird fall", out of spite for being replaced in Eden. And it all ends with Adam arriving too late to stop her, and Eve eating the fruit only to be corrupted by evil.

#my personal rambling #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel headcanon #youtube #hazbin eve #hazbin hotel eve #hazbin hotel lilith #hazbin lilith #hazbin hotel adam #hazbin adam

Alright, try this idea from my Hellaverse AU on for size: each member of the First Family had a certain animal they’re particularly keen on. For Adam, Eve, and Aclima, they’re all rather fond of dogs and probably kept a few throughout their lifetimes. Abel is, naturally, very fond of sheep and tends to a flock of them in Heaven. Meanwhile, Seth and his wife Azura are both pretty keen on birds. Finally, I did want to note that Cain for most of his youth wasn’t very fond of animals (in part owing to his preference for plants to keep him company, but also do to his poor temperament back then) but has since grown to have a deep affection for cats. Why you may ask? Well, it’s mostly because he was adopted by a family of ocelots sometime after his banishment.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hi, I just wanted to say I love your idea, and it's a really interesting headcanon. I always imagined Adam and Eve domesticating animals, especially wolves (the ancestors of dogs), Abel tending his sheep, and Seth, being a hunter as well as a farmer (for survival), probably trained falcons, which were his faithful companions (By the way, I must admit, thank you very much for the idea about the birds). I liked that you added Aclima and Azura. And the bit about Cain surprised me; I never imagined the ocelots. 😅

#hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel headcanon #hazbin adam #hazbin first family

almacambiondaughterofsaleos

Eve vs Lucifer. "By the time I'm finished with you you'll be crying like a little bitch"

After she beats him up.

"Father No" Charlie

"Lucifer No" Vaggie

"Lucifer No" Angel Dust

"Meh" Alastor shrugged.

"Isn't she lovely" Adam

"you're supposed to be on our side mate" Cherri

"Since when" Adam.

He tolerates.

thinker257

Cherri: "Adam, do something to stop your crazy wife before she ends up burying the king and queen underground." Adam: "Why should I worry about that?... They brought it on themselves by bothering her... If you'll excuse me, I'm going to cheer for my Evie." Angel: "Because they're Charlie's parents, and if they're defeated, Hell descends into anarchy." Adam: "This place has always been anarchy. Improve your reasons for me to stop her." Husk: "If she escapes, she'll go after Heaven and..." Adam: "Um... well, Sera deserves a beating after throwing me and my girls into the mud. Besides, Evie would never hurt our children." Nifty:"bad boy... bad boy" Adam: "Yeah...he pushes Nifty with his foot...no" Vaggi: "Adam, help us now. Stop acting like a miserable, selfish child-man. Don't you see how the hotel, Charlie's dream, is being destroyed?" Adam: "Oh, thank you Vagasaurus, you managed... to make me refuse to help you." -Pulls out a megaphone- "Come on, honey, hit them with the chair." Charlie: "Adam...please, they're my parents...I know we had our disagreements, and I'm sorry for what happened in the battle and what happened in Eden with my parents." Adam: "Uhm...Maybe I'll consider it..." Charlie: "Besides, if you help us, we'll make you the best ribs and give you back your guitar." Adam: "Okay, princess, you have a deal." Adam gets ready. "Well, let's see if my old charm works hehe. By the way, do you know where to get the best chocolates in Hell?" By the way, I'm adding Lilith here because, well... I wanted to. I really like the @angelcakes1947 idea . Keep up the good work.

almacambiondaughterofsaleos

I Am For This Theory 100% (Make Adam Be Hardcore For Eve)

Seriously, I think people sleep on the fact he's always holding a torch for Eve. I hate how they want to shit on the og couple by demonizing Adam. I really do want the Roo is Eve theory so that she gets revenge against the family who killed her man and tried to turn her against him. To be honest I will only accept Eve x Adam. Guy really was let down by her disappearance but Charlie and Lucifer are all angsty mommy dearest is just gone for 7 years while this man has lost his wife eons. They are wusses.

thinker257

I had this idea: Angels doing their part to make sure everything goes well on Adam and Eve's romantic night in Eden (before the forbidden fruit disaster), helping like in the song "Kiss the Girl" from The Little Mermaid, and the two humans were about to kiss until they fell into the river. What do you think?

almacambiondaughterofsaleos

Adorable

thinker257

Thank you very much. I love making adorable scenes but I'm torn between two ideas: that the fall into the river was an accident, or that, just like in the movie with Ursula, the Morningstars interfered, especially Lilith. What do you think?

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almacambiondaughterofsaleos

I Am For This Theory 100% (Make Adam Be Hardcore For Eve)

thinker257

#hazbin au #hazbin hotel au #my personal rambling #adam x eve

almacambiondaughterofsaleos

(Cain has infiltrated the hotel, so the Hazbins group up in the lobby, ready to take him on as a group)

Charlie: Cain! We know you’re in here, so just show yourself so we can settle this!

(In an instant, shutters drop over every door and window)

Vaggie: Did he… Did he hijack the security system?

Charlie: (Refusing to backdown, she summons her pitchfork and steps forward) Do you think this is enough to scare us? Get out here you damned coward!

(And just like that, power cuts out, plunging the group into darkness and an oppressive silence)

Alastor: (Ears twitch in anticipation) …

Vaggie: (Reaches out to her girlfriend in concern) Charlie…

Charlie: (Starting to grow perturbed, she shakes her head) We have to stand our ground. We need to-

(The princess doesn’t even get to finish as the opening riffs to Dueling Banjos rings out from across every hallway before dissipating, replaced by the faint rapping of footsteps in the dead silence they can’t quite place the location of)

Charlie: …Get the fuck out of here…

That gives me thr chills just reading 📚

thinker257

Hi, I loved this AU. To the author, I hope you like the added scene. Keep up the good work! Alastor: "How the hell did he transform a cheerful musical instrument into one that even terrifies me?" Angel Dust: "Well, Smiles, the radio was great until you showed up—hears echoes of footsteps—We're fucked." Cherri Bomb: "This reminds me of my favorite horror movies, hehe (laughs nervously, trying not to show fear but failing) but I didn't expect to be the star of this one. Maybe if everything goes well, we'll get out of this with a bang." Husk takes a drink to try and drown his fear and says: "You don't even believe that last bit, Cherry. We could barely hold out against his idiot father if it weren't for Lucifer, what makes you think we can fight against Cain, The fucking Inventor of Murder, who's also a damn immortal?" As Husk finishes, a knife flies out, which the sinner cat almost dodges. Nifty laughs hysterically: "Bad boy...big bad boy...haha...we're going to die, hahaha." Angel manages to save Nifty before a giant axe falls on her. Vaggie grips her spear tightly and with determination she says, "Damn, where did he get an axe? Okay, no need to panic. We didn't give up before, we won't now. Husk, you gave me an idea. Charlie, call your father." Charlie: "You're right, Vaggie, right away... wait, where... is my phone?" Cain appears from the shadows with Charlie's phone in his hand until he smashes it and only says one simple word before raising his weapons: "Boo."

thatguywhodoesstuff

(The assembled Hazbins all scream in terror at the First Murderer’s sudden appearance, all except one…)

Alastor: (Static flaring to life as he surges with demonic power) So, the Father of Murder graces us with his presence. Don’t think I’ve forgotten our last altercation and the dirty pool y-

(In one swift, powerful motion, Cain slings the lone “weapon” he brought at the fraud’s Radio Demon’s head, which explodes in a shower of gore and banjo shrapnel on impact)

Cain: (Turns to the others, who are stunned silent) Does that guy ever shut up?

Husk: (Buzz cutting through his fear) No, unfortunately he doesn’t.

Cain: *Snorts* Sounds like I did ya’ll a favor.

Vaggie: (Shakes off her shock and immediately lunges forward, spear in hand) ¿Qué haces aquí, maldito? ¿De verdad quieres seguir el mismo camino que tu padre?

Cain: (With the subtlest of movements, he catches the incoming spear before grabbing the fallen angel into a headlock, her spear now leveled at her remaining eye) Tranquila, pajarita. No querrás perder tu buen ojo, ¿verdad?

Charlie: Vaggie! (Looks rapidly between her struggling girlfriend and the Second Man) Alright, just- just calm down and let her go. There’s no need to escalate things.

Cain: I’ll let her go if she agrees to play nice. What do you say, pajarita?

Vaggie: (Glares up at Cain, before casting a glance at a pleading Charlie) F-fine…

(Cain releases the Ex-Exorcist, sending her tumbling into Charlie’s arms)

Cain: Now, if ya’ll got it out of your systems, I’d like to have a couple words with the princess.

Charlie: (Still helping to support Vaggie) What?

Cherri: (Bombs in hands) Bullshit! There’s no way in Hell you come in here like a bloody hick out of Deliverance only wanting to talk!

Angel: (Subtly trying to brandish a gun while still trying to restrain a manic Niffty) Yeah! What’s your angle, old timer?

Cain: Heh, alright, I’ll admit the whole “big entrance” was my way of having a laugh, but I’m being honest. All I really want is a word with blondie.

Husk: Then what the fuck were you doing throwing shit at us?

Cain: Huh? (Notices the knife embedded in the wall and the axe planted in the floor) Yeah… I have no idea where those came from.

Charlie: Wait… (Inspects his face for any signs of lying) Really?

Cain: Really. All I brought was *Motions towards Alastor’s prone and headless form* the banjo.

Charlie: …Huh. (Cautiously) Well… What did you want to talk about?

Cain: (Scratches his chin) Ah, well, that’s really more a private thing. Y’know, something to do one-on-one.

Vaggie: (Instincts kicking into high gear, she plants herself between Charlie and Cain, spear at the ready) Do you really think we’re going to leave the likes of you alone with Charlie?

(The other Hazbins all enter a battle stance in turn, determined to keep the First Murderer away from the Princess of Hell)

Cain: *Hums* You brats seem to be under the impression you can actually stop me. *He raises his left hand, the flesh upon it unraveling like string on a spool* Let’s fix that real quick.

Charlie: …!

Vaggie: …!

Angel: …!

Cherri: …!

Husk: …!

Niffty: OH FUCK YE-

(In an instant, the “threads” shoot outward, impaling everyone but Charlie (and Alastor) through their diaphragms, quickly asphyxiating them into unconsciousness)

Cain: (In seconds, his hand is fully healed as he flexes his digits) Now, where were we?

Charlie: (Frantically looks around at her fallen friends) I- I- Wh- (Her eyes lock onto Cain, and she sees red, brandishing her pitchfork and demonic features manifesting in bale fire, the princess lunges forward) RAAAGH!

(Not even flinching or bothering to move, Cain allows the princess’s attack to connect, but as she attempts to gore him further, she finds that not only is the pitchfork stuck within the hulking Antediluvian’s chest, but he’s also primed to strike and in one fell swoop, he grab’s Charlie’s arms in one hand, and in the other he grabs her by the scruff of her tuxedo)

Charlie: (Struggling fervently, she finds she can’t summon her full demonic power) Rrrrr… Bastard… BASTARD! *Spits in his face*

Cain: (Nonplussed) Easy now, hothead. Your friends are alright, and all of them but Red should be up and running in about an hour or two. Now, let’s use that time to get to know one another.

(Turning on his heel, Cain starts making his way towards the hotel’s designated therapy room that he saw earlier, the Princess of Hell in hand and malding all the while)

thinker257

Wow, I loved it! I actually thought Cain had a huge arsenal of weapons, but it's brilliant that he uses only one instrumental weapon (the banjo). You know, it made me wonder if Wander should stop being a pacifist, haha. I'll send you the video about Wander and his powerful banjo.

thatguywhodoesstuff

Aye! Really glad you liked the addition and I love where your head is with the Wander Over Yonder connection! I did want to say that my making the knife and axe into a gag wasn’t meant to be a knock on your idea, I just saw an opportunity for humor and ran with it. Secondly, as it will become more apparent as I write that Cain’s real weapons are his body, mind, and soul (and complete immortality), with which he is both cunningly brutal and brutally cunning in using to fight his way through Hell.

Honestly, all cards on the table, his whole power set and fighting style were majorly influenced by Andy and Victor from Undead Unluck:

All of that said, I’m going to start brainstorming Charlie and Cain’s talk so you can expect to see that sometime soon, and again, I’m really glad you enjoyed this!

thinker257

Great, I have no problem modifying the idea; in fact, it's really great how you wrote it. I'd definitely like to see the conversation between Charlie and Cain. If you're open to suggestions, I'd love to see Cain critique Charlie's book. Keep up the great work, my friend.

thatguywhodoesstuff

(Cain is walking down the darkened halls of the hotel with Charlie slung over his shoulder like a sack of potatoes, unable to do anything but impotently flail her arms and legs)

Charlie: Let go of me you…! You…! You damn dirty ape!

Cain: Ain’t happening Applecheeks

Charlie: *Growls like an animal* When my dad gets back here, your ass is grass and he’s going to mow it!

Cain: *Snorts* Do you really think I’d stage a direct attack on your home turf and not get Ol’ Scratch out of the way?

Charlie: *A chill runs down her back at this* What… What did you do to my dad?

Cain: *Chuckles* Oh, I didn’t “do” anything to him, he did it all to himself.

Charlie: *Strikes Cain with all the might she can muster, but still her demonic power eludes her* What the fuck did you do!?

Cain: Easy there Patience, trust the process. We’re almost there.

(Finally, the two make it to the therapy room and Cain wastes no time in setting Charlie down in a seat before taking his own across from her)

Cain: Alright alright alright, let’s get down to brass tacks. So here’s what we’re gonna do, we’re gonna have one of those… *Gestures vaguely* “open discussions”, yeah? You ask me a question, then I ask you a question, and we just keep on going until we’re either good and satisfied or can’t come up with anymore. And Y’know what, you can start, how’s that sound?

Charlie: *Glares up at him in silent scorn* …

Cain: Oh, don’t give me that look, it makes you look like a constipated lamb.

Charlie: *Her glare hardens further and she begins to growl*

Cain: Fine, I’ll start instead: What happened to you wanting to find out where your daddy dearest is? *Leans forward, his voice darkening as a mad glint shines in his eyes* Don’t you want to know what heinous scheme was so clever to render the Devil himself completely indisposed?

Charlie: *Starts to sweat under his pressuring* Fine. What did you do to my father you sick fuck?

Cain: *Chuckles evilly*

•Meanwhile, on the other side of the Pride Ring•

Lucifer: (Slowly walking along the middle of the road with a severely distended sack hefted over his shoulder (holding up traffic all the while)) Ooh, a rubber ducky! Ooh, a rubber ducky! Ooh, a rubber ducky! Ooh, a rubber ducky! Ooh, a rubber ducky! Ooh, a rubber ducky! (He continues to follow the trail of rubber duckies down the street and picking them up ad infinitum, completely oblivious to the world around him)

•Back at the Hotel•

Charlie: (Thoroughly disappointed) Dammit dad…

Cain: If I had to hazard a guess, we’ve got about three hours before he completes his duck hunt.

Charlie: *Runs her hand through her hair in frustration* Okay… *Sighs* What did you really want to ask me?

Cain: (Dead serious) Why are you doing this?

Charlie: (Uneasy) What do you mean?

Cain: Well, to be more specific, why are you running this hotel? Why are you so bent on redeeming sinners if you see Heaven as the bad guys? Wouldn’t that just be like putting a chicken in a wolves’ den? Besides, you’re not a sinner, so why are you so invested in them?

Charlie: …It’s because… They’re my people. What kind of princess would I be if I didn’t want what’s best for my subjects?

Cain: *Snorts* You’re people? Get real.

Charlie: They ARE my people!

Cain: No, they’re not. They’re human souls condemned to this… prison. If anything, these sorry freaks are closer to me than they’ll ever be to you, and I’m not just saying that from a genetic standpoint either. If anything, you’d be better served helping the hellborn, it’s not like any of them did anything to windup down here. So, again, why are you doing all of this?

Charlie: *She stands up in a fury, but nary an ember sparks to life nor do her eyes even so much as change color* THEY ARE MY PEOPLE, DAMNIT! Just like they’re my mother’s people! I can’t just standby and watch them get slaughtered by genocidal monsters like your father, that’s why I have to do whatever I can to uplift them! Just like she tried to!

Cain: *Nods in calm understanding* Ah, I gotcha. Well, that’s my turn, so what do you wanna ask me?

Charlie: *Fuming, she slumps back into her seat, a question gnawing at her* Why are you doing this?

Cain: *Hums* I got a few, actually. *Starts counting on his hand* A. Killing time, B. Curiosity, and C. Well, I’ve kinda got… something in the works, but I’m gonna need you good and ready for that one.

Charlie: What the fuck does that mean?

Cain: Hey, your turns up, it’s my turn to do some questioning, so I want you to tell me what you know about the Antediluvian War.

Charlie: I… The what war?

Cain: Seriously? *Shakes his head* Why am I surprised? Of course Pinky and the Brain wouldn’t have the stones to tell their own kid about that. You ever try cracking a history book or do all of those conveniently leave out the 7 incursions on the Earth?

Charlie: Look, I don’t know what you’re going on about, but I know more than enough already.

Cain: Is that so?

Charlie: It is so. And I’ve got a little book you should consider reading sometime. It’s called The Story of Hell, ever heard of it? It tells all about how your pig of a father drove my parents into trying to free your poor mother, only to get punished for it!

(At this, Cain goes eerily still and a dark, oppressive weight suffuses the air like a cloud of smoke)

Cain: (Far too calm) The Story of Hell… Would it by any chance… be authored by your parents?

Charlie: (Squirming in her chair as the sheer rage rolling off of Cain makes it hard for her to breathe) I- Your- I-it’s not your turn… to ask a question…

Cain: (He pauses before chuckling darkly and relaxing, the feeling of imminent death dissipating from the air) Right you are, Princess.

Charlie: (If she wasn’t focused on keeping her composure, she’d honestly be impressed at how he could say her title with all of the contempt and precision of a slur) …okay. Okay. So… (Thinks for a minute, trying to muster something until a question pops into her mind) How… How does your curse work?

Cain: Simple, it negates death.

Charlie: Negates… death?

Cain: Oh yeah. Anything that would bring me closer to death; aging, starvation, asphyxiation, mutilation, disease, blood loss, etc, none of them take and I just keep on going. And as you’ve seen by now, none of them really even slow me down. That’s pretty much the odds and ends of it.

Charlie: And… the immunity to angelic weaponry?

Cain: Heh, that fancy metal is made by the same bitch that gave me this. (Lifts up his left arm, displaying the Mark of Cain for all to see) The Angel of Death herself, Azrael.

Charlie: (Utterly stunned at hearing the full scope of power possessed by one of the Elders of Heaven) …

Cain: (Completely earnest) You know she’s Jamaican, right? Or at least has the accent.

Charlie: (Flabbergasted) Wha- Really?

Cain: Yeah, really. It’s surreal.

Charlie: Huh…

Cain: …

Charlie: …

Cain: So am I good to ask my next question?

Charlie: Oh, uh, yes.

Cain: Alright then, so… why did you recruit, arm, and deploy a battalion of cannibals, of all things?

Charlie: (Starts sweating now that that is out in the open) Oh… oh… T-They’re… Friends… of a friend and… they volunteered to help.

Cain: (Unimpressed) Great bunch of friends you got there. Hey, while you’re at it, why don’t you just go ahead and surround yourself with a den of vipers?

Charlie: (Really sweating now) I don’t…! That’s not…! Look! They were concerned citizens suggested by a close friend that answered my call for help!

Cain: (Deadpan) In exchange for a glut of angel flesh to chow down on.

Charlie: N- Y-yes… But is that really any worse than what the Exorcists have done to the denizens of Hell all of this time?

Cain: YES. That is demonstrably worse. Beyond that, it’s worse for two other reasons. First of all, you’re the Princess of Hell, so why didn’t you just raise an army of those Goetia nobles? Last I checked they were on the no kill list and they’ve got whole legions of hellborn working under them.

Charlie: (Realization dawns on her) I- oh… OH… and… the second thing that makes it worse?

Cain: Well, you’ve basically poisoned a large populace of your “people” with that stunt.

Charlie: Wh- What are talking about!?

Cain: The flesh and blood of angels are toxic to demons, and pair that with all of those cannibals being sinners, you’ve essentially condemned them to waste away with no hope for the escape of death. So, good job on that one.

Charlie: (Takes all of this in and tries to digest it) How… how do you know all of this?

Cain: You really think this is the first time demons have slaughtered, let alone devoured, angels?

Charlie: (Eyes widen into saucers) The… the war…

Cain: (Smiles jeeringly) Ah, now you’re getting it.

Charlie: (Utterly crushed at what all this entails, a spark of fury flares up within the princess’s chest, refusing to let her be backed into a corner or accept the First Murderer’s words) I have a question.

Cain: Hmm?

Charlie: (Uncannily calm and voice sharp as a knife) Why did you kill your brother?

Cain: (His face hardens into a blank expression as if he expected this question, but all the same an ancient tiredness makes itself know) …You really wanna know?

Charlie: (Voice tinged with a hint of sadism from some ugly part of herself deep within the pit of her being) Yes.

Cain: Okay. *Blows through his nose* I was… young once. A skinny chicken shit of kid that didn’t really get why things were they way they were and not caring enough to find out the “how” behind that “why”. All I really gave a damn about was my garden and proving to mom and dad and those from On High I was the better son.

Charlie: (Invested, but otherwise unmoved) …

Cain: But the fact of the matter is, I was too proud and too angry to see the forest for the trees. It was never a completion between me and Abel. I was just too insecure to realize that. I was pretty stupid too, *Chuckles grimly* I actually thought I could win favor with the Lord Almighty with some second rate crops. Actually thought my half assed attempt at an offering was head and shoulders above Abel’s. Pride really does come before the fall.

Charlie: (Trying to hold onto her anger) Get to the point already.

Cain: Alright, Patience, I’m getting there. *Sighs* See, that day, back in the fields after the two of us made our offerings, I was madder than I’d ever been in my life. I was so mad it hurt. And I wanted my brother to hurt the same way I did.

Charlie: …

Cain: So… While we were walking back home and Abel decided to finally break the silence, that’s when I exploded. I jumped on him like a wolf going after one of his sheep. He was bigger than me, stronger too, but he refused to fight back. That just made me madder. I punched him, I kicked him, I bit him. But he just sat there and took it all, looking at me with those doe eyes and pleading for me to calm down.

Charlie: …

Cain: Finally, he manages to shove me off and I went tumbling to the ground. I looked up at him, still refusing to fight and holding out a hand to help me up… and that’s when it happened. I lost all sense of my self, didn’t even realize that I’d picked up a rock laying next to me until after I’d cracked his skull open… And the rest… Is history. So, that’s why I killed my brother.

Charlie: … (Breaks down crying after hearing all of this) …Cain… I’m so sorry…

Cain: (Looks at her in confusion) What Hell are you crying for?

Charlie: Your story. It’s so sad. You didn’t mean to kill your brother, and because of that one mistake, you’ve been paying for it all these years.

(She gets up and hugs the First Murderer, who stiffens at the embrace)

Charlie: Look, I know there’s a lot of bad blood between us, between our families, but I think this has been a breakthrough, and maybe with enough time, we can convince the Elders, Sera, all of them, to free you of your curse. You… You can be redeemed. You can reach Heaven.

(Cain sits there for a moment, before rising to his feet with a low growl)

Cain: I don’t think you understand what you’re talking about, but let’s get one thing clear: I am a sinner and my curse is the punishment my sins warranted. I’ve accepted that fact.

Charlie: But you don’t have to! It’s all a mistake and one you’ve suffered long enough for.

Cain: A mistake? *Scoffs* And you think that changes anything? I may not have meant to kill my brother, but I did want to hurt him and my actions ended with him dead regardless of what I wanted to do, so I was rightly punished in kind for my crime. That is justice. Just like the fate of every sinner that winds up down here.

Charlie: (Pleading) But- But you can be redeemed! You can have your hap-

Cain: I don’t want to be redeemed.

Charlie: Wh… What?

Cain: I don’t want to be redeemed and I don’t want an afterlife.

Charlie: Wh- How can you say that!?

Cain: (His voice laced with the exhaustion of an immortal) I’ve spent so long walking the Earth, the lone constant of an ever changing world. If I were to ascend to Heaven the family I would find there would be nothing more than strangers and if I descend into Hell I’d be condemned to exist amongst all that I hate. So, I don’t want redemption, I don’t want an afterlife, and I don’t want to continue on. All I want… is oblivion.

Charlie: …!?

Cain: (Looming over the Princess) You asked me why I’m doing all this? Well Princess, all your little stunts have caused quite the stir. Your medaling has shaken the very foundations of creation and might just be what I need to get my final death.

Charlie: What…?

Cain: What I’m saying is, right now I’m looking at the key to get my heart’s desire.

Charlie: (Steeling herself, she stands defiantly against Cain’s imposing figure) No… No! I refuse to accept that. I will save every sinner I can, and that includes you! Even if I have to fight you to save you!

(She tries with all her might to call upon her demonic powers, but nothing happens)

Charlie: Why… Why isn’t this working?

Cain: *Chuckles* Took you long enough to crack that chestnut. The reason why you can’t do any of your fancy tricks is because of this.

(And with that, Cain lifts his left forearm, a soul shackle manifesting around not only his wrist, but Charlie’s as well)

Charlie: (Eyes flitting between each of their wrists) What!? HOW!?

Cain: I’ve been around the block a couple times in my day and picked up a thing or two. Now…

(More chains manifest around Charlie’s body, leaving her bound and gagged as Cain sweeps her up into a bridal carry)

Cain: Let’s hit the road. We’ve got a date with the Heavenly Host and I’d hate to keep them waiting.

Charlie: *She thrashes and screams, but it’s all for naught*

thinker257

I loved the dialogue. Your version of Cain is one of my favorites, and I really like how Cain acknowledges his crime and how he doesn't want to redeem himself because he's tired of everything. Charlie struggles to help him, but how can you help someone who won't let you? Especially when Cain knows that this same girl justifies everyone except Adan, his father; she sees him as a monster, one that her parents created. At least, that's how I understood it.

thatguywhodoesstuff

You have no idea how much that means to me. Like, as a writer I’m always afraid my style and character work is going to put people off, so this legitimately is uplifting to hear. Now, I’m gonna answer your question and geek out about some details I sprinkled in throughout the one-on-one:

Firstly, I’m so tired of the narrative of Hell’s denizens being “poor little uwu beans that only made a tiny mistake or two”, hence why Cain is pointedly aware of his actions and quick to recognize them for what they are.

Second, you are absolutely correct in Cain being a case of Charlie having to realize that she can’t help/save everyone no matter how much she wants to and the fact that there are people that will refuse that help.

More generally, Cain’s craving for complete cession of existence stems from the strain of having to live since the Biblical era. See, my idea/headcanon within the Hellaverse is that when a human dies and either ascends or descends their soul loses a sort of “physical baggage” that allows them to exist indefinitely without it taking a toll on their minds. Cain’s being an immortality human, ie a soul connected to a corporeal body, isn’t free from such fetters and it’s destroyed his desire to keep existing in any capacity. Moreover, there are some other key differences between human souls pre- & post-mortem, hence Cain being able to shackle his own to Charlie and suppress her powers.

Okay, so despite all the crap Cain gives Charlie, he doesn’t actually hate her. Sure he’s annoyed beyond reason by her naïveté, refusal to see his father as anything beyond a monster, and selfishness, but more than anything he recognizes Charlie’s issues are exacerbated by her parentage, upbringing, and environment and pities her as a (literally) damned fool. Now, for people he truly hates, that would be Niffty (his father’s murderer whose propped up as a celebrity) and Vaggie (someone who gleefully mowed down her own kin in droves before serving them up to cannibals).

The Antediluvian War referenced will be given greater detail in my fanfics, but the long and short of it is that it was Hell’s attempts to invade Earth and corrupt humanity, which resulted in a full scale war between Heaven and Hell upon the Earth that ended with The Flood. Cain lived through that and, needless to say, it left an impact.

That one line about Azrael was my way of working in some classical angels into the ‘verse given Viv seems so dead set on simply cramming Heaven with her OCs (as well as putting some respect on their names given how nerfed Heaven has been in the show) + my headcanon for how/why the angelic weaponry exists. Do want to add that her being Jamaican was a good friend’s suggestion and a subtle shoutout to The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I really hope that those lines critiquing how the Hazbins are generally crappy people that don’t really feel like a proper found family + the lambasting of the whole “cannibal army” thing didn’t feel too intrusive.

Lastly, I did want to mention I briefly contemplated having Baxter walk in on Cain and a chained up Charlie there at the end as one final gag, but I ultimately decided to cut it to preserve the exchange’s serious tone.

Well, that’s all I wrote. Sorry for my rattling on at length, this whole exchange has done my creativity and motivation wonders though, so I might just hop back on finishing up writing TEoaPL Chapter 2, so be on the lookout for that.

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