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I imagined Saiyuki characters as Dragon Age characters: wouldn’t Sanzo make a good Fenris? So angry and so pretty. The gentle healer with a demon inside him? Yeah, I obviously see Hakkai as Anders. Gojyo as Zevran, maybe? They both have scars and long hair, sure, but they mainly share a marked taste for the good things in life. For Goku, I’m not sure. Merrill? Young and innocent but capable of terrible things?
I know what you mean, I dwelt on it several times and I’m still wondering if Seiten Taisei’s and Goku’s minds are one and a whole or two separate minds. ST seems to come out when Goku can’t handle his feelings anymore, so they’re connected but to what extent? Were they two different personalities from the start or was it the crown that created this split? As you said he only wants freedom. It was taken from him and he can’t express himself because of the crown. But Minekura is a great storyteller, and I’m sure she won’t leave him out in the end; the only logical moment where he’ll appear more would be when Goku recovers his memories. Goku remembers pieces of his past whenever ST comes out, so we can definitely assume that ST remembers. Maybe when the moment comes, ST will be developped, and we can only hope for that.
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Glad to see I'm not the only one with so many questions and frustrations regarding Seiten Taisen! I trust Minekura, I know we'll have answers one day but I kind of want them now. :)
I’ve always assumed the Seiten Taisei is Goku. I mean, he obviously is, but in a “Goku is the tip of the iceberg that is this entity” kind of way. With the power limiter on, Goku has reason. He can process emotions and grow the way an ordinary person does (whether that “ordinary” is divine or mortal). The way I see it, ST doesn’t have that because he’s feeling everything. He doesn’t have reason because it gets lost in everything else he is. Think about all the times he’s been freed from the power limiter: we know he was free before Heaven found him, and then they chained him and dragged him away from that freedom. If you were an all-powerful child, how would you feel? The next time we see ST free, Goku’s just seen his best friend kill himself. He’s full of rage and sorrow—how else would a wild creature like ST react to that much pain? Again when Konzen died, the same thing. He’s in pain, so of course he’s out of control and wants to destroy everything. All-powerful or not, he’s still a child and while Goku is sheltered, he’s more than just Goku. And when Sanzo sees ST for the first time, as the previous commenter pointed out, he’s crying. The Seiten Taisei is crying, because he thought he would be left alone again. ST is in pain because Goku has felt so much pain, and he can’t stop feeling it until he stops being his whole self again. I believe that the Seiten Taisei is all of Goku, including all of his power, as we’ve seen, and all of his memories, and unfortunately, the memories he can’t remember are devastating. I think it’s unfair to try and choose Goku over ST or vice versa because they are part of the same whole. If anything, I’d like to see that whole taken care of, instead of one or the other.
Tea-drinking Space Pirate
Yes to every point you made. I didn't mean to write that I wanted the ikkou to discard Seiten Taisei and choose the nice Goku, because I, too, think they are one person (and I desperatly want Minekura to write about this). But I'd want the ikkou to put the crown back with the conscious thought that they were imprisoning another being in doing so. That their actions had consequences over a poor trapped soul.
I meant to write this ages ago, as a reply to dragonhakuryuu.
I absolutely love Seiten Taisei. I want more of Seiten Taisei. But I’m kind of frustrated by the way he is dealt with up to this point. I love how thoughtful Minekura’s work can be: how her characters always question life, death, right and wrong, and everything, really. From basic villains, youkais have been fleshed out to embody a great tale about racism. But I feel like Seiten Taisei is always left out of this game: he’s always just that bloodthirsty character and I want more. I want the ikkou to question why Goku’s life is somehow more important than Seiten Taisei’s. Seiten Taisei is “some kind of a god”, says Hazel in the scene above. True, Earth gave him life. When critically injured, Earth healed him. I obviously want the ikkou to choose Goku over him, but not lightly. Not without wondering if Seiten Taisei, as a literal creature of the Earth, doesn’t have more right to walk freely than any of them. From a reader’s point of view, I guess it’s easier to feel for Seiten Taisen. I get his rage and his absolute desire for freedom. And don’t Goku’s feelings bleed through to him? I see him as much a feral character as Hakkai or Sanzo but nobody reach out to him, and it breaks my heart.
Here’s ST crying right in front of Sanzo. The first time he saw Goku’s other self come out. Even in the desert part where Goku first takes off his limiter. Sanzo went easy on him and returned Goku back to his usual self.
The first time Bosatsu knocked out the ST like a fly and about to put another blow to the ‘chibi’ as she called him. Saying ‘Don’t think badly of me for this’. Konzen flipped his shit and landed a hard punch to Bosatsu’s face. He got kneed in the gut for it but he picked up the unconscious ST and took him away from the chaos.
But what you’re really looking for, as a literal action of kindness to the ST is this:
But my point before this picture was that Sanzo, showed compassion towards ST too. Or it seemed like it to me. It probably wasn’t obvious as what Bosatsu did for him but the intent was still there.
Yes, you're right: I had forgotten the scene with Bosatsu, how could I, it's so great! As for the scene with Sanzo, I always wondered if it wasn't more Goku than Seiten Taisei at this point (they're one and the same but you know).
But all those comforting scenes (thanks for posting them, it made my day!) are in the past and I'm still frustrated that even in those fairly "recent" Reload chapters (at a point where Minekura really mastered her story) there still wasn't any development for Seiten Taisei.

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I meant to write this ages ago, as a reply to dragonhakuryuu.
I absolutely love Seiten Taisei. I want more of Seiten Taisei. But I'm kind of frustrated by the way he is dealt with up to this point. I love how thoughtful Minekura's work can be: how her characters always question life, death, right and wrong, and everything, really. From basic villains, youkais have been fleshed out to embody a great tale about racism. But I feel like Seiten Taisei is always left out of this game: he's always just that bloodthirsty character and I want more. I want the ikkou to question why Goku's life is somehow more important than Seiten Taisei's. Seiten Taisei is "some kind of a god", says Hazel in the scene above. True, Earth gave him life. When critically injured, Earth healed him. I obviously want the ikkou to choose Goku over him, but not lightly. Not without wondering if Seiten Taisei, as a literal creature of the Earth, doesn't have more right to walk freely than any of them. From a reader's point of view, I guess it's easier to feel for Seiten Taisen. I get his rage and his absolute desire for freedom. And don't Goku's feelings bleed through to him? I see him as much a feral character as Hakkai or Sanzo but nobody reach out to him, and it breaks my heart.
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Saiyuki Reload 7-33.
You know, I think I never really understood these pages until now: I never really understood what was the ‘something’ breaking. I blame it on the French edition.
I could see Sanzo’s world break apart in that first page – and, to some extent, that’s what happened – but from Goku’s point of view, that didn’t make any sense. In that second page (I didn’t include the pages in between), Goku’s thoughts in the French text read like this (translated literally): ‘The sound of something breaking… Tell me this isn’t true… Was it this fragile?’ Was it this fragile? What was ‘it’? In the book (but not in the scanlation) the ‘You’ve gotta be kidding’ panel shows the Sanzo-ikkou: was ‘it’ the Sanzo-ikkou? To some extent, that’s also true.
And then I stumbled upon this English scanlation. It doesn’t say ‘Was it this fragile?’ but ‘Was I this weak?’ and that’s so much clearer for me. I often wonder what Goku, Gojyo and Hakkai know about Sanzo’s past and feelings: the monk isn’t exactly the sharing type. They do know that he can’t stand weakness but do they know how sensitive this particular trait of personality is? How it comes from an irreparable wound? Well, it doesn’t matter because the result is the same anyway: Sanzo won’t embarrass himself with weak companions. And when Goku falls before Sanzo, Goku breaks Sanzo’s n°1 rule: ‘The moment you show weakness is the moment I get rid of you.’ Could the ‘something breaking’ also be Goku’s heart? He falls from the attack, yes, but doesn’t he also fall from grace in Sanzo’s eyes?
Sanzo’s world shatter, the ikkou falls apart, Goku’s heart break… Don’t all these interpretations amount to the same thing? So I had a rough understanding of what was happening in these panels but I didn’t really get the tragedy of what Goku was feeling until now. But is that really it? Who says that the English translation from the scan is better than the French translation from my book? That’s why I need to learn Japanese.
You pretty much covered the whole part I think. I didn’t think to count how many times Goku felt so defeated and weak but more than once is WAY too much for him to handle. It’s normal to feel the way he does but with a mission that heavily relies on life and death, Goku probably felt any amount of mistakes is extremely bad.
And gotta think like Goku too. ‘If I’m too weak.. How can I possibly protect Sanzo and the others?’ And remember the time he went up against Kougaiji in the desert with a poisoned Sanzo? Goku didn’t have time to waste on Kou with Sanzo’s time running really short. So what was a guy to do? Go batshit insane as the Seiten Taisei of course and beat everyone up.
But after that happened, Goku was obviously depressed about it. Hakkai cheered him up. Then the kami-sama arc happened and Goku even though he was depressed, pulled himself out of it and helped out his friends.
What I am getting at here.. Is Goku probably felt like a beaten up, broken, useless hunk of junk and no matter how hard he tries, it’s not enough. He didn’t sense Ukoku even two meters! No one did. But Goku felt like he should have, that he should haven’t to resort to the seiten taisei to do anything for him.
Goku and his other self is like two split personalities, Goku doesn’t like that other self because it hurts his friends, almost killing them every time. itslikethesun describes the ST best in my opinion =w=
Thanks for your input! (Fandom is a great thing to be a part of.)
I guess I tend to forget Goku's inner turmoil because he's so cheerful and strong and wonderful all the time. But his own personal tragedy (without even mentioning his lost memories) is to be left alone so yes, to think he's the cause of the ikkou's disband must be crushing.
And speaking about his lost memories... when Goku first came back after being the Seiten Taisei in Saiyuki 3, he remembered some feelings:
'I remembered that I had something I really wanted to protect.'
At this point in the series, Minekura wasn't as good at crafting her story as she was in Reload 7 but yes, I think it's still a very crucial thing that defines Goku: the desire (even inconscious) to protect the ones he loves at all costs.
Saiyuki Reload 7-33.
You know, I think I never really understood these pages until now: I never really understood what was the ‘something’ breaking. I blame it on the French edition.
I could see Sanzo’s world break apart in that first page – and, to some extent, that’s what happened – but from Goku’s point of view, that didn’t make any sense. In that second page (I didn’t include the pages in between), Goku’s thoughts in the French text read like this (translated literally): ‘The sound of something breaking... Tell me this isn’t true... Was it this fragile?’ Was it this fragile? What was ‘it’? In the book (but not in the scanlation) the ‘You’ve gotta be kidding’ panel shows the Sanzo-ikkou: was ‘it’ the Sanzo-ikkou? To some extent, that’s also true.
And then I stumbled upon this English scanlation. It doesn’t say ‘Was it this fragile?’ but ‘Was I this weak?’ and that’s so much clearer for me. I often wonder what Goku, Gojyo and Hakkai know about Sanzo’s past and feelings: the monk isn’t exactly the sharing type. They do know that he can’t stand weakness but do they know how sensitive this particular trait of personality is? How it comes from an irreparable wound? Well, it doesn’t matter because the result is the same anyway: Sanzo won’t embarrass himself with weak companions. And when Goku falls before Sanzo, Goku breaks Sanzo’s n°1 rule: ‘The moment you show weakness is the moment I get rid of you.’ Could the ‘something breaking’ also be Goku’s heart? He falls from the attack, yes, but doesn’t he also fall from grace in Sanzo’s eyes?
Sanzo’s world shatter, the ikkou falls apart, Goku’s heart break... Don’t all these interpretations amount to the same thing? So I had a rough understanding of what was happening in these panels but I didn’t really get the tragedy of what Goku was feeling until now. But is that really it? Who says that the English translation from the scan is better than the French translation from my book? That’s why I need to learn Japanese.
GENDER-SWITCH SAIYUKI - one love!)) our team in full strenght! me as Hakkai :3
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Bulma & Sangoku.