#undertale speculation

phones + memories

Remembered this line from Chara at the end of genocide and it hit me - what if this was basically our relation between the player and player character across utdr all this time?

Like, we're not possessing these characters directly - we're a guiding force that works in the background and to the in-universe characters we're not really seen at all or barely

Even our "vessels" (idk what's the more proper word for it) like Frisk or Kris probably register us as their conscience nudging them towards certain choices

The biggest one being, Riverperson’s most famous for going ‘tralala’ in their lines, and sometimes even inviting Frisk to sing with them… and you know what Ralsei does when ACTing? *He sings.* Not to mention, it’s clear that both Ralsei and the Riverperson have far more knowledge about their circumstances than they easily let on—Ralsei for obvious reasons, Riverperson for strange lines ‘Beware the man who speaks in hands’ ‘Beware the man who comes from the other world’ and ‘Humans, monsters… flowers’ ‘The angel is coming,’ as well as mentioning ‘the old song from the sea’ and foreshadowing how to spare numerous monsters (something Ralsei would have a vested interest in…)

So… do I seriously think that Riverperson is Undertale!Ralsei, or Deltarune!Ralsei transported to Undertale? Not really. It’s maybe something to consider, but without the other Darkners present in any form in Undertale, it raises a lot of questions about Ralsei’s existence or being paralleled—tho, Ralsei has always been pretty odd for a Darkner.

I’ll just cap this off with one thing. If Riverperson is Ralsei, and especially if Ralsei is some kind of shapeshifter like I’ve seem theorized, and if River!Ralsei has any awareness of the similarities between Frisk and Kris… it just makes some of Riverperson’s lines downright tragic.

“Tralala. I am the Riverman. Or am I the Riverwoman…? It doesn’t really matter.”

“Tralala. What’s my name? …It doesn’t really matter.”

Ah, this is fascinating! I've seen people compare the two as a joke, but this is the first real time I think I've seen a serious analysis done, and I must say you come up with some compelling points! Both of them being introduced wearing cloaks and acting as guides of sorts definitely ties them together a lot more strongly than perhaps any other character in either game.

This point is particularly interesting when you consider their identities - or rather, their lack of any. I strongly believe that Ralsei was never meant to take the cloak off, and would have floated through the game without really connecting with Kris or Susie or anyone else, or developing an identity of his own outside of "useful healing tutorial fairy person". Meanwhile, Riverperson has no identity at all aside from their profession as ferryman - even their gender isn't explicitly stated anywhere, as far as I know! You could definitely see Ralsei in this light as being a commentary on "tutorial/exposition characters" whose sole role is to assist the player in some way and nothing else, where this kind of character is instead allowed to grow, be challenged by the narrative and flourish into their own person.

I suppose that would retroactively make Riverperson a commentary on characters who know vastly more than they should being relagated to a bit role with no importance whatsoever. Of course, those glimpses of meta knowledge compel us to ask questions about them - who are they? How did they come across that knowledge? And as if anticipating our questions, Riverperson shrugs them off, proclaiming that their name and their gender, and by extension the rest of their identity "doesn't really matter".

Actually, I'm curious now - does Riverperson have any fans? Anyone make fanart of Riverperson, or write fics about them? I suppose no-one would, really, considering their lack of importance and lack of anything concrete to latch onto. That certainly resonates with what Ralsei's trying to do with himself, attempting to minimise his own importance so that when Kris and Susie have to move on it won't hurt as much. Hmmm...

Napstablook is over 100 years old. They don’t recognize the King or (former) Queen.

Napstablook either has never seen Toriel in the Ruins, or just doesn’t care that she’s there.

Papyrus is really strong. REALLY strong. He’s just way too nice to even capture you.

The fact that its like. A plot twist on BOTH of the human’s identities. The kid you named was actually Chara, and the one you played as was actually Frisk, and neither of them were actually the “players self inserts” that people thought they were.

Flowey trapped himself in a time loop of his own making, and then got bored of it even though he could’ve just. Stopped resetting ? Unless I’m missing something here this is very funny to me.

Just how many characters are mentioned, but never seen.

How every time a character says something meta that implies they know they’re in a game, it can always be turned into something else, making it very vague. I like vague.

The sign on the Librarby.

In the Genocide route, you’re so far gone that Asgore, a monster that’s been alive for over 100 years with six human SOULs in the very next room, is unable to recognize Frisk as anything human.

Flowey is still Asriel under all that, and while he has indeed gone through a LOT of shit, you can still see that when he’s suddenly so terrified of the person he’s convinced himself is Chara that he feels fear for the first time in who-knows-how-long, after pretty much convincing himself he couldn’t feel anything.

The changes in the Neutral endings!!!!!! I love how many different variations of it there are it’s the best hehehehoo!

The Papyrus phone calls… they’re so hectic and there’s sooo much dialogue it’s amazing

so if you wanna read it, be my guest!

OKAY SO THINKING AHEAD THERES 2 PLACES WE HAVENT BEEN TO BEFORE IN UNDERTALE ONE OF WICH BEING IN WATER FALL WITH A SCREEN TRANSITON THAT WE CANT GET TOO (I CANT FIND A PICTURE OF IT SRY)

ALSO THIS PLACE IN HOT LAND HAS TO BE DIFFRENT TOO RIGHT

In Undertale Lighteners and Darkeners live in harmony, Darkeners considered their own branch of monster. Maybe Monsters and Darkeners sort of fuse together in a way ages ago, and that was one of the reasons for the war between Humans and Monsters.

And maybe in Deltarune that fusion between monsters and darkener has yet to happen. If it will ever happen. Maybe Gaster hopes for a better outcome than his world had? Trying to guide it to where Darkeners and lighteners can coexist without the war happening?