#double snake

Hey, I hope you’ll be willing to sort me. I was a timid kid, always did what I was told, I was nice, respectful and I believed what adults were saying. My family valued books so I took pride in reading early too.

It's a normal, human thing to want to please your parents, and to believe what you're told as a child. I suppose a very strong tendency to fit in with the family culture might point to a young Badger primary... but that's not the only explanation. Going to need more data.

I could never play alone and always wanted a friend, almost as much as I wanted peace and quiet of my room. And yet, boredom was often my companion.

Hmm. This need for community, companionship, another person around is sounding very Badgery.

I have two younger siblings and I was their nanny.

Ah. Got it. So if you aren't a Badger secondary... you definitely learned to model it.

I taught them various words and its meanings, but I also cheated in card games, would be mean to them or blame them for things I knew I would be punished harsher for. 

Hmm. Interesting. I mean being mean to your siblings is neither here nor there - I mean I'm sure you resented them a little for nanny duty for one thing, I've been there. But this tactical move of blaming your siblings because you kew that your parents would be more lenient with them... that's definitely the sign of an I-Move secondary (Snake or Bird.)

Once at my job I had (more like wanted) to figure out why the Internet was down, was it the death of a router or electricity problems. A co-worker was convinced it was the router because everything else was on, I wasn’t so sure. I searched my head for the easiest and quickest way to solve this. It was of course to see if the outlet was popped by the kettle before.

I know that English isn't your first language, and I have to admit that I'm not completely sure what "popped by the kettle" means. I think it means "someone accidentally unplugged the router in order to plug the kettle in."

Now that I think about it, there were easier ways to go about this, and without me even leaving the room, but then I figured I’d take an old job NOKIA and see if it charges from that outlet. It didn’t, and I felt really smart and gloated silently that I was right and they weren’t. With high-stakes problems I really think I just do what needs to be done.

You've definitely got this love of going a little bit solo when you problem solve. You did a little experiment, you isolated the problem. Could be Bird... but somehow I'm really getting single-player Environment Snake from you. Might be the slight agent of chaos energy.

I’m a nurse, well, I’ve a nursing degree. Going back to that system after all I’ve been through was a difficult decision. I was bored studying it, a breakup with my friends from college was awful and I still cuss thinking about them, most clinical weeks were shit while we were being ignored, shunned out or used for free labour. Like I had one proper clinical month in 4 years were I was properly taken around with the nurse’s consent, and was given space to learn things. It’s a different republic man.

Sigh. Okay, so it's sounds like your Badger secondary is on full display here with nursing, just like it was with nannying... but I'm sort of thinking it's a model. You CAN do it, but you don't enjoy doing it. This is also the second mention of you being bored. Which, yeah is a human thing... but it's also MORE of a thing for a reactive, improvisational secondary. I'm kind of liking Snake for you.

I never wanted to go back, but job market was shit, so with a heavy heart, kicking and screaming, I faced the reality of me running out of savings, and sent a job application to a hospital, not without my mother’s nudge and support from people I know, who kept saying if it will be awful, you will leave. Sure, like I would even go back if it was that easy.

A badger secondary would put a little more weight on what the community had to say. Also, you talk about always wanting friends as a kid, but as an adult you seem pretty aggressively independent. Burned Badger? Snake?

I know, I know, I could have tried less medical procedures heavy nursing positions, but one thing I knew was that starting in a hospital meant with good social relations I could always ask for help and have an experienced nurse to learn from. Those other places kind of leave you on your own in the field.

So there's definitely some Badger in you. A very PRACTICAL Badger secondary model at the very least.

Sometimes I am a bit sad for being the reasonable one, for not trying to be an artist, to be a translator of a lesser known language, or for not studying literature and living in a dream that one day it will work itself out somehow. But then I get warm in my bed, I get to buy books I want, treat my dogs or get them to a vet when something’s wrong, help my mom or buy a new bed-sheet, and I know being comfortable was more important than whatever my head imagined.

I'm kind of liking Snake primary for you. You have that pin-point practicality Snakes always seem to come back to in the end. Art, following your heart and all that stuff... it sounds nice, and I'd be nice to do. But at the end of the day, the most important thing is to stay warm, buy yourself and your dogs little treats, and help out your mom. That's a Snake primary, with a small circle.

Snake do tend to like Lions, and when things are calm and going well, Snake primaries will often model something else, for fun basically. So I hope something eventually shifts for you (since no situation is permanent) and you can do something maybe a little more Idealistic, which suits your Snake secondary a little better... since I bet it can get both bored and burnt-out by nursing.

Also I know there would’ve been a lot of boot licking, besides the need to be really smart and ingenious, which I wasn’t.

Clients are... a very difficult part of being an artist, it's a thing.

Would I be happier if I followed my sworn oath to never come back? Maybe, if I could study again, learn what I really want, which is too much to pick one subject, as I think a lot of things, could be neat to study for 4 years.

This feels like a Lion primary fantasy to me: Life is loud and chaotic, wouldn't it be nice to spend four years just figuring your self out?

Not nursing though. Maybe if I was able to work in a bookshop or a coffee shop.

This sounds a bit more like a Snake secondary fantasy: work at a nice little shop where there are a lot of low-stakes interesting problems (like figuring out why the router isn't working) and lots of people coming in for you to bounce of of and have fun with.

However, my idea of comfort was more important then. It turned out fine, it doesn’t haunt me.

Because this is, at the end of the day, the only acceptable answer for a Snake primary.

Not like my study years. I’m not sure I would ever go back for masters though, and I shouldn’t, right, as someone who found their subject so boring.

This is definitely a big challenge with you - you get bored easily. Which makes me think Lion secondary or Snake secondary (and with everything else I've read, almost certainly Snake.)

My fantastical dream is living in a nice place, a cottage full of books and comfort near some castle where I can go socialise, work or do anything else with my time that’s needed. But when I come back to my cottage, I am not alone, although I can be if I want to, but instead I am surrounded by a group of friends, who feel like home, who I can be myself with, as in I know I am stupid, and I do and say stupid things as I’m sometimes too airhead or too emotional, but I will first be met with their understanding and kindness rather than judgment and outrage. Basically I want a found family that I don’t have and a home to make my own and with my rules. So little in life is how I want it to be, and only fictional found families are understanding, supporting and kind. That’s why we like them.

I think this is a Double Snake fantasy. Live in a comfortable little cottage, surrounded by friends/found family who "feel like home." That's the dream of a Snake primary. Then you can leave and go someplace cool (a castle!) in order to meet people, work, or just go along with whatever's happening that day. At which point... you come back home and take off all your faces, go into Neutral... and don't have to worry if someone thinks you're stupid, emotional, or air-headed.

(that's a little bit of negative self-talk coming through. Often people with strong Badger secondary influences can look at their Improvisational tendencies and think they're not valid/real/logical. I hope that's not the case with you.)

I know people see reality in various ways. In my reality, everyone is selfish and doing things primarily for themselves (starting with me) so it is hard to understand when we barely can see past our noses.

Yep. You're a Snake primary. A slightly Burned Snake primary, sounds like.

(which might explain why you're sort of fascinated by the Lion way of doing things. Burned Snakes will sometimes model Lion because it seems easier/less painful, and Burned Lions will do the reverse.)

In reality, I want the family heaven, the damn Hallmark Christmas movies. I don’t think I’ll ever do the whole normative family thing, but I’m either lonely or everyday is the same now and nothing’s special.

Staying within the bounds of this system (because I'm not diagnosing anything else over the internet) it sounds like your Snake secondary needs some enrichment. You cheat at games and figure things out for fun! There's got to be something interesting for you to get into. Also - yeah you probably need People apart from your pets and your mom. Easier said than done, though.

I want a plot of land to call my own so I’d be able to put my pets to rest when the time comes, so I’d be able to visit them.

This is why I love Snake primaries. What an incredibly lovely thing to say.

I feel most powerful and confident when I improvise and it works.

SNAKE.

I went for a little trip alone last winter.

Oh yes, absolutely. I love this for you.

I checked for my ride to and back, all possible times, wrote it so that if my devices went out I had something, and I knew I could survive a day or two until my ride home. I booked a place, and I knew where I planned to go for the event. The other 2 days? Who knows, just go around, see the town, explore, and see the places I have not seen. All of this was made spontaneously a few days before because I had a fight with my brother and decided going and staying with a Buddhist group was better than celebrating New Years at home. I had a great time, everything was okay and I am really proud of myself for doing that.

Your Badger model (planning, double checking, making sure all your info is written down) and your Snake secondary (leave on a whim, do whatever once you get there) are playing very well together.

Sounds like a snake secondary right?

Sure does.

But then why do I physically hate lying? I think I am afraid of getting cough [caught?], afraid of not having the right answer in the moment. It seems that I can never evaluate a situation well and choose the right thing to say for a useful lie. I would rather anyone else create the lie and I would then try to make it as honest as possible. I doubt it would work, unless it wasn’t that important.

Your Snake secondary sounds like it's a little Burnt. Not actually that surprising, considering it looks like you've been around such heavy Badger secondary energy all your life, and been expected to use your Badger secondary, and only your Badger secondary, so much. The message you would have been getting is that the Snake secondary way of doing things is - unreliable, cheating, bad. Which just isn't the case. Snake secondaries have a perfectly useful, morally neutral way of doing things.

But all of this - 'I'm afraid, I can't, it wouldn't work,' all that is Burnt secondary language. As is "With high-stakes problems I really think I just do what needs to be done," which is what you said earlier.

I wouldn't be too concerned though. From everything else I've read, you're grounded, stubborn, and have a good sense of who you are. Chances are your Snake secondary is just rusty. Also this: "I would rather anyone else create the lie and I would then try to make it as honest as possible" - that's a good description of how a Snake secondary works. You're bouncing off whoever you're talking to, you're not creating from nothing.

It was difficult when I didn’t know what I’ll do in the future, after school, when all my plans failed. It was really difficult to go through high-school with no friends and shun out, like, if I was a badger primary originally, that would’ve messed me up so bad that I’d never know. I never had a chance to look like the two amazing healthy badgers I know who surrounded themselves with communities and are thriving.

I do think that part of this is just - that you fundamentally do not want a Badger-style community. You want a Snake-style community, which is different.

It was hard when my college friend started to shun me out and drifted away when she found better like I was nothing,

This friend - this one important friend left you, and that gets a shout-out on a level with your plans for the future falling apart. Very Snake primary

or when I had to lie heavily in my academic papers because no one cared to help and I was exhausted to care myself after covid and almost half a year of clinicals and paper writing.

Okay this is fascinating. First, it does sound like you had a bout of situational depression (or similar) which you pushed through, so good for you. But I'm interested in the way that - okay, you lied on your academic papers when push came to shove (which I would expect from a Snake secondary.) BUT. That decision is bound up with your Burnt primary, in feelings of abandonment and loneliness. I'd say you don't like lying, because you associate the need to lie with feeling alone. Ideally, you feel your life should be set up in such a way that you don't *need* to lie.

My relationship with a long time friend from art school is important. She was a positive and inspiring figure in my life, as well as someone who taught me a lot about communication and friendship. We fought a lot, but neither one of us wanted to let the other one go, maybe because we knew we wouldn’t find anyone else who’d match our freak, so we had to figure it out.

Sounds like an important Snake primary relationship.

I love my siblings but all they gave me was a baggage of fear that I was a horrible sibling and broke something in them.

You were a kid. Kids don't have the emotional maturity (or authority) to raise their siblings well, that's just not a job that they're able to do. It's the job of the adults in their life to make sure all those interactions are running as they should. You can be a horror of a little kid a grow up into a wonderful, well-adjusted adult, or you can be a lovely docile little kid and fall apart when you get older. All you can do (all you have to do) is be decent to your siblings now.

My relationship with my mom is really important. To this day she thinks I’d be an artist or that I was a really studious and meticulously prepared person, but without her support I would not be the person I’m today. Neither I’d be that without all the loops I’d to jump because of her haha.

Sounds like your mom might be a Lion Badger. Which could help explain where those models are coming from. It's common for Snake primaries to build models for their important People.

Thank you for your time!

You are very welcome.

Thank you to Novemberkid for such an excellent submission. If you'd like a Sorting of your very own, commissions are open on my ko-fi. :D

Hey, guys, I back now.

Anastasia time.

So, as a DISCLAIMER: THIS FILM IS A WORK OF FICTION. I highly recommend looking into the actual history behind the film if you're interested!

Here we go!

(I seem to recall there being a sorting already posted of Anastasia, but I remember disagreeing with most of it? Absolutely no offense meant to whoever originally posted it! These are just my two cents!)

ANASTASIA/ANYA

BADGER PRIMARY

Anya's entire storyline revolves around the ideas of "family," "home," and "belonging." Not just her own, personal family (which would be Snake,) not necessarily the home she remembers being born into (as far as she knows, she's an orphan,) and not only her own state of belonging. She deals in the concept of these things as though they were basic necessities: everyone should want them, and she wants them because everyone needs them in order to be whole. This is truth to her, full stop.

Anya: "Do you think you're gonna miss it?"

Dimitri: "Miss what, your talking?

Anya: "No! Russia."

Dimitri: "Nope."

Anya: "But it was your home!"

Dimitri: It was a place I once lived. End of story."

Anya: "Well, then you must plan on making Paris your true home."

Dimitri: "What is it with you and homes?!"

Anya: "Well, for one thing, it's something that every normal person wants!"

This is not a belief system, nor is it a conclusion she's come to. It's something that is such a part of her make up as a human being, that to imagine that another person doesn't care about the concept of a "true home" or "true community" is downright disturbing to her. Her desire for "home, love, family" is not her trying to seek out individuals she already knows, but to find the space she came from, filled with strangers she's never met, but who she believes will accept her through the power of community. It reads very animated Hercules, often dreaming of a far off place where a voice keeps saying, THIS is where I'm meant to be. Badger Primaries love the idea of having a secret family they've never met that will swoop in and carry them away, loving them unconditionally, when the world immediately around them has been so cruel. Lonely Badger Primaries are the perfect characters to fall in love with the idea of being long lost royalty. The main character arc Anya goes through is learning that family is not just the people who gave birth to you: Found family is not only just as powerful, but can become even moreso over time. This is the same moral the animated Hercules learns! Belonging and community is created and watered like a garden: If you keep searching for your perfect, idealized community, you might miss the one forming right before your eyes.

LION SECONDARY

It doesn't take long to pin Anya as a rather loud Lion Secondary. She is unafraid to voice her opinions, and often does so in a blunt and unashamed way. SShe absolutely DESPISES lying, and she is the first to take the easiest, most straight forward way out.

Dimitri: (trying to detach a traincar after breaking multiple tools) "COME ON, there's gotta be something in there better than this!!"

Anya: (wordlessly hands Dimitri a stick of lit dynamite)

Dimitri: "That'll work!"

What this movie actual shows is an interesting, not as often explored aspect of the Badger Lion, which is how the brash and straightforward nature of the Lion Secondary can work against the desires of the Badger Primary. Anya longs for nothing more than home and community, but often inadvertently (and not so inadvertently) alienates those around her with her cutting phrasing. It takes a more grounded, good listener like Vlad to see past Anya's brashness almost immediately, understanding the intentions behind her bravado.

Vlad: "I see an engaging and fiery young woman, who on a number of occasions has shown a regal command equal to any royal in the world!"

DIMITRI

SNAKE PRIMARY (Initially Burnt)

Dimitri's storyline is a bit deeper than many people might initially realize. What we're looking at is a Snake Primary who, at a very young age, tried to save one of their People (the Princess Anastasia, for whom he is implied to have either a childhood friendship with or just a faraway crush,) and failed, horribly. In fact, they failed to the point that they believe they are at least partially to blame for the death of that Person. That's about as deep and dark of a hole as a Snake Primary can fall into, so the Snake Primary will, naturally, Burn and find new, non-Person things to fill that void. Namely, recognition and fortune.

Dimitri: "Imagine the reward her dear old grandmama will pay!"

Of course,this could point to Glory Hound Lion, just as easily. If not for his Snake Primary sneaking in at every possible moment. The line following that one above is:

Dimitri: "Who else could pull it off but you and me?"

The "you" in question being Vlad, the only other Person Dimitri has allowed in (and by "allowed in," I always assumed got so tired of Vlad actively FORCING HIMSELF into Dimitri's life that he acquiesced and decided to just let him stay.) But, Dimitri's obsession with the Princess Anastasia continues, against all odds. His latest con? Directly Princess Anastasia related. Is it enough for the woman they hire to play her be "good enough?" NO. She has to be PERFECT. They hold AUDITIONS, and Dimitri is the perfect person to be on the board, because Dimitri still knows her intimately well, even after all these years. Such as hum recognizing Anastasia's face in Anya's right from the start. Thus, comes Dimitri's initial inner turmoil in regards to Anya: Are his feelings just projection? Is he attracted to her JUST because she looks like Anastasia? Is he ACTUALLY that obsessed? All those questions become moot when Anya is revealed to truly be Anastasia, though Dimitri finds himself where he was as a boy. From this point on in the movie, pretty much every motivation/choice Dimitri makes revolves around the fact that Anya IS Anastasia, and that he is going to give her what she wants and deserves, no matter what it takes. Even if that means keeping himself away from her romantically. His character arc revolves around forgiving himself for what he perceived as a dire mistake against one of his People, which is a ROUGH arc for a Snake to go through.

Dimitri: "Paris holds the key to her past. Yes, Princess, I've found you at last! No more pretend. You'll be gone, that's the end..."

SNAKE SECONDARY

Dimitri is actually quite a good con, all things considered. He manages to trick Anya into thinking they have train tickets when they DEFINITELY do not, and he keeps the reward under wraps for the entirety of their trip. Not just that, but dodging around obstacles instead of facing them head on is his most natural state. As a child, he is seen sneaking out of the kitchens (where be belongs) and automatically offering the servants' quarters as a means of escape, which is extremely clever and resourceful. Dimitri tries to charm and placate Anya at every turn, trying to keep her naturally explosive personality under wraps.

Anya: "The baggage car...? There wouldn't be anything wrong with our papers now, would there, maestro..?"

Dimitri: "Of course not, Your Grace! It's just that I hate to see you forced to mingle with all those commoners..."

But, we spend most of the film seeing Dimitri forced out of his comfort zone by both the situation and Anya's combative Lion Secondary, so he's often seen conspiratorially complaining to Vlad while in his Neutral State or just outright losing his temper and yelling. But, this never comes first, and his plans and plots are always somewhat circumventing. During the train derailment, his plans are to jump off, disconnect the train cars, and just wait until the train coasts to a stop. All pretty passive/out of the box thinking. When he IS shown trying to face someone head on, he is always unsuccessful: Trying to fight for Anastasia during the siege only to be immediately knocked out, trying to take on Rasputin directly and being tossed aside pretty easily. Comparatively, Anya/Anastasia is shown to be successful when she is upfront and combative: Getting away from Rasputin as a child by kicking him in the face, ultimately defeating Rasputin by straight up smashing his reliquary.

VLAD

LION PRIMARY

Vlad is a pretty classic Paragon Lion Primary. He wants to do what is Good and Right and doesn't what is Bad and Wrong. For what reason would he wind up as a con artist as a Paragon Lion, though? Even for Paragon Lions, what is Good and Right to THEM can go against what the collective believes is good and right.

Vlad: "That's what I hate about this government. Everything is in red!"

Yes, the above line is also meant to be a coded message for Dimitri, but Vlad thinks the government has overstepped his moral boundaries and has chosen to step outside the usual bounds to follow his own morals. Part of those morals involve guiding those he believes are lost, thus, his "adoption" of Dimitri, a very lost young man with little direction. He tries to act as Dimitri's "moral compass" until Dimitri finds his own direction again. He does the same for Anya when she comes into their group, trying to lead her towards the possibility of finding her home, while gently guiding her away from focusing on her "past."

Vlad: "There is nothing left for you back there, my dear. Everything is in Paris."

He stands up for what he believes in, and inserts himself constantly when he believes Dimitri is wrong. Letting him know when he's "walking away too soon" or when he "has to talk to her" even if she's a Princess and Dimitri's a Kitchen Boy.

BADGER SECONDARY

Vlad is one of the kindest, most lovingly genuine characters I've encountered in fiction, and I mean with that with all my heart. He is consistently gentle and understanding with the people he comes across, and is always even-tempered and fair. Compare Vlad and Dimitri's reactions to finding Anya skulking around their home:

Dimitri: (shouting, from across the room) "HEY! What are you doing in here?! HEY! STOP!"

Vlad: (coming in at a light jog, holding up his hand politely) "Excuse me, child!"

Vlad always assumes the best from whomever he's interacting with, and is excellent at getting to the root of what's bothering a person. He actively tries to make everyone in his company comfortable, and will often make soft jokes or observations in an attempt to lighten the mood. His Lion Primary makes him unable to entirely give in when he knows what's going on is wrong, but his Badger Secondary gives him the skills to broach those uncomfortable topics with grace and eloquence.

Vlad: (gives Dimitri the most fatherly, loving hug in all of animation) "Ahhh, my boy... you are making a mistake."

TL;DR

Anya/Anastasia: Badger Lion

Dimitri: Double Snake

Vlad: Lion Badger

Have to do the sorting for the show I'm obsessed with for the past week - the legal drama Suits. Check out @sortinghatchats and @wisteria-lodge for explanation of the system in detail.

Suits is an amazing character dynamics study, fuled by relationships and personal conflicts, with the legal world drama cases as interesting and intelligent backround, testing the characters, pushing their limits and their loyalties to the brink while keeping a light-hearted banter tone.

Let's start with the most prominent influence character the legal world is apparently turning around, the famous lawyer legend Harvey Specter. Harvey represents the best of the double snake sorting - he is charming, confident, self-serving, enjoying luxury and wealth his job gets him. He is obsessed with winning, with walking away from every situation as the top dog and getting the deserved credit for it. And he is sneaky. You don't meet a better schemer than Harvey, who will get you on a space between lines, who will convince you he will lie even though he would not. Who can switch from being the serious trustworthy lawyer for the business meeting and the funny playful tease at work, to the predatory confident blood smelling shark at court. Changes faces like his suits and enjoys it. He is in it for the game of it all, and he is the greatest at it.

LMAOOOO This is what I deserve. We're going to go in ascending order so starting with number five, and of course we all know that all sortings are sexy blah blah blah let's get into it! (Sidenote I had a draft where I also did the unsexiest sortings but since everyone else is posting their sexiest sortings I jumped in)

5. Snake Bird - SNAKE PRIMARIES ARE SO SEXY GUYS I CAN”T EVEN. Fyi Snake Badgers are not on here because they’re more romantic and the Badger sec cancels out all the sexy lmao. But this is the villain sorting, what ISN’T sexy about that. You DON’T want a sexy independent slightly crazed maniac who is in some sorta lust for you with this intricate plan and all the details sorted out? Shut up yes you do.

4. Bird Snakes - Despite the fact that they are a rare breed, they are in fact sexy because of how well put together they are and their flexibility. They have contingencies, they are riding the waves. They’re confident in themselves (usually). They play the field and they look good while doing. They don’t actually have to look good but it is their vibes I’m talking about.

3. Snake Lions - Look I GET that they are overused and EASY and SIMPLE, but fuck if they aren't sexy. They’re the Rebel sorting, and have you ever seen a Snake Lion that isn’t sexy? Adrien Agreste doesn’t count. Anyway Snake Lions are just sexy. They go boom boom pow and are in it for themselves and the people they like. Independence and also unflinching loyalty is very sexy.

2.Lion Snakes - While they are a very annoying often times, they’re also still incredibly sexy. Firm in their beliefs and able to do whatever for them. They’re sexy in that aggravating “why-are-you-so-hot-you-piss-me-off-so-much-I-wanna-kiss-you-so-bad,” way. Unless you’re Elizabeth Swann then you’re just hot.

1. Double Snake - Was there...any other sorting it was gonna be? Double Snakes are simply straight up SEXY. They have the sexiest primary and the sexiest secondary, which just equals pure sexiness. They’re actors, they’re charmers, they’re sly, they’re creative, they’re in love, they’re independent, they’re sassy, they’re fun, they’re perfect.

Sure. In no particular order:

Nikita Mears (CW's Nikita)

Chris Perry (Charmed) - he may be a bit shady, but he has very good intentions

Odysseus

Zari Tomaz/Tarazi (Legends of tomorrow)

Mr. Scott and Miranda Barlow (Black Sails)

Moist von Lipwig (The Discworld books)

I am not sure if Root (Person of Interest) counts or not. She starts as more villanous, but ends up as a hero.

Hello. I decided to write this according to the list you gave. I have a huge struggle with my primary. I guess it is burned, but I don’t know what it is, or I don’t want to see it because that hurts my ego if it sounds completely fake or in some way empty, or I just don’t vibe with it. Which I understand is an issue in itself. 

An interesting issue. You don’t want a primary assigned to you because you’re worried it’ll sound fake? I’ll keep an eye on that. 

For my secondary I guess it is just straight up a lion, mostly being off or burned, burned badger or bird. I definitely use pre-made personas in social or stressful situations, but I prepare so little that I could be anyone. 

This sounds like Burnt Bird secondary “I do the Bird secondary thing, but not very well.” Or possibly a Bird secondary model that you wish you didn’t have to use. 

Before I have to tell you even if I don’t have clinical depression or a diagnosis, I don’t feel happy, and it probably shows. I am someone who cries every time they see Everything Everywhere All At Once, which at this point probably tells a lot about a person. 

… it tells me that you’re very probably neurodivergent. Very possibly ADHD, but I don’t like to diagnose in these things. (Not actually possible anyway.) 

Also, heads up for my English, it is nowhere near perfect or fluent, so there might be some annoying mistakes, even though I know you don’t point it out to people. I ran it through a grammar check, but I have little doubt I missed something.

1.

Sometimes I wish I’d care more about other people, about strangers, but I don’t care much naturally, and it becomes even more pronounced when I am stressed or having to spend a lot of my energy outside myself. Then, that gaze towards outside shuts down, and I stop focusing and giving attention to other people.

You’re not naturally a Badger, taking meaning and energy from the community. Snake is absolutely possible, especially with the way Snakes will focus very intensely on their own bodies when they haven’t got a lot of extra energy to spare. Like, sure you’d like to do more, and doing more makes you feel like a good person, but that’s extra.

A co-worker could be talking about their accident and what happened to their family, and I would stare blindly and think to myself they are trying to get sympathy and I would not budge at this point. While more normally I would give them it, even if I didn’t feel sorry for them. 

You might also just be low empathy, which is… just kind of a neutral thing. I’m low empathy. A lot of people actually find it comforting that they can be upset around me without getting doubly stressed that they’re making my day worse. 

After all, some emotional work needs to be put into maintaining relationships and keeping it alive.

True. And the way you just kind of put that out there as a kind of ‘Rule to Live By’ is actually making me think Bird primary is possible... or a Bird primary model over a burnt primary?

2. 

As a kid I was timid, afraid to explore town, thinking someone will come and say I can’t walk there. I was never peaceful, but I followed my mother’s advice to ignore bullies and don’t give them attention. Jokes on me – I never learned how to fight and argue. I remember myself hot headed, attention seeking, trying to talk with others, even making up lies or cutting bangs by myself just so people notice me. But I was always careful not to make trouble for my mother, be safe, get no injuries, clothes fine and without a rip. 

I’m leaning more Snake primary for you. Your mother is clearly a very important figure in your life, and what she thinks and values is important, because she thinks it. You ignore bullies, don’t wander, and don’t get in trouble because your Mom told you not to… but there’s still this undercurrent of but I would have liked to. In fact, the way you behave for your mom seems to be very at odds with the “attention seeking” “hot-headed” “notice-me” behavior from the rest of your life. I’m considering Snake secondary (because of the different faces for differnt people) or Lion/Burnt Lion secondary (because you would have liked learning how to fight and argue.) 

I was obsessed with Three Musketeers, friendship and finding connection. I would focus on a small group of people or even one person and hold onto it. It started getting really hard time when I had no friends whatever. That pushed me into survival mode and made me quiet and thoughtful.

This focus on small groups of friends is making me really lean Snake primary. (Also, if you’re a Snake Lion, then The Three Musketeers would be *the* perfect media for you.) 

3. 

I think I solve low-stakes problems with something that looks like a snake or rapid fire bird.  I think if I can and have someone close I can call for help, I will. Once in the dorms my European windows fall off the hinges, I couldn’t close it or put it back. I could have definitely done it myself with more time and more focusing and seeing how things work. But I had a friend living there next to me, so I asked them to come. Not that they knew more about windows than I did, but as out both room windows were similar in age maybe they would have a similar issue and know what to do. I don’t think they did, but it was fun and I wish I could do it more - meeting life with your friends and not alone, that’s why I called them. Administration would have been the last resort, they were pretty meh. I think we just ended looking around and putting it back in somehow, just trying to close it in different ways. I was always careful with it after that.

That’s lovely. And… weirdly I think I’m going to put this in for primary, for that whole “meeting life not alone” thing. That’s bigger than just problem solving, that’s getting into why you do things at all. 

The actual problem solving seems to be “lets compare the broken window to a similar, not-broken window and see what’s wrong.” There’s a *little* I Know A Guy bird in this ‘who specifically do I know who would be able to solve this problem.’ But I could honestly see coming from any secondary. 

4. 

In high-stake situations, the most important thing to me is reaching a mental space where I am stable, looking around without panic. That’s why sometimes, instead of pulling an all-nighter before an exam I turned on a movie. I just couldn’t deal with the stress and said bye lol. I didn’t do it all the time, I also studied a lot, alone and with friends, although I cannot say where studying or the movie was more useful. I personally would say in high-stakes situations it’s most critical to try to calm down and manage my stress and anxiety. 

This is making me say Improvisational secondary (Lion or Snake.) Extra preparation isn’t going to comfort you, it’s going to mess you up. You’re not a Bird or Badger, who’ll get stressed out if they don’t read their notes over one more time. You want the mental space and agility to correctly read and correctly respond to the situation, and so you’re giving yourself the best chance for that.

I had experience with bad roommates so in dorms I wanted to live alone, not bother or bothering someone. While this opinion wasn’t allowed legally in our college, students would bribe administrator. I hate bribing, giving chocolate for literally noticing me in someone’s place (it’s a bribe older generation does here while asking employees for something they think is a favor, but it’s kind of their job; why don’t we just stop being assholes to each other instead? I am not sure other parts of the world does this so hence the explanation). 

It’s interesting. You’re describing bribing, like - yeah you’re breaking the rules… but everyone does it, and everyone knows everyone does it, and to some degree you’re even expected to do it. But even though it’s kind of normal, it still bothers you. And this would bother a Lion secondary (who love to be straightforward and honest) more than it would bother a Snake (who might not even think of giving an administrator a “”gift”” as a bribe.) 

As I mentioned earlier, administrator was meh and everyone and their mother knew it, so you can imagine I thought this is big, and I have to survive this and come on top.

This is very Snake primary energy, it has that practicality I absolutely love. 

Money, I thought, should be the most useful, but there’s also too much and too little. In short, I sit down, wrote an application, had an envelope in my bag, talked a bit about how I would like to live alone and tried to slip it out of my bag on the table as it was nothing special. The most interesting thing was that he seemed amused all this time, and even then, I had my hair down and had lipstick on, so I don’t know, maybe my baby face looked interesting, or maybe that’s just stress distorting my memories. I was kind of prepared, but not really if you know what I mean, I obviously needed more information, but I was either naïve and thought this will work or this will be enough. In some way I was also mostly thinking I hate this, this either will work with how much I prepared or not, let’s go in and see. Maybe not good enough for sorting according to high-stakes situations but thank gods in some way that the only ones I had are like this one or exams.

Now that I have built your anticipation,

You absolutely have, I am extremely invested in this story. 

let’s check together how that ended up for me, shall we? I did get a room for myself, and I really loved the room I got the first year there. Its window opened up to a street, I saw a lot of trees, sky, a neighboring apartment complex that did not belong to college. The bribery? It went well, they were either monitored or they actually meant what they said that they can’t guarantee me anything, and that the college had plans to reduce the available space due to shortage of students. So in the end, I left with my money, a little bruised dignity and a new experience, that I knew I would never want to repeat. We just do what we need to do, and what we are okay about doing, no?

I hate bribery, but I wanted to live alone more, so it weighted over.

Something like that (and this whole story, really) makes me think your primary is fighting with your secondary. You think bribing is wrong, and your Lion secondary hates not just being direct and ASKING for what you want... but you want that private room, so of course you go for it. You had a bad experience in dorms before, you’re going to protect yourself. That’s the decision that you feel best about. 

And when it came down to this conversation, you got dressed up, you considered your appearance and how you came across, you thought about what the right level of bribery would be. But in the end, you think that the fact that you looked “interesting” got you through. And “this either will work with how much I prepared or not, let’s go in and see” is SO Lion. It’ll work, or it won’t, it’s out of my hands. 

5.

Recently I made a hard decision of whether to go back home or stay. Decisions are hard for me, especially when neither one nor the other option look better. I tried to take all that I have gathered about the situation and see which side is/feels stronger, which one has more value. 

I’m starting to see what’s got you confused about your primary. One thing about being in a Snake is that decisions get a lot harder when they don’t affect your personal safety and well-being, or the safety and well-being of your People. You’re making a decision with ALL the tools here - gathering information to know which side is stronger (Bird), asking yourself what side feels stronger (Lion), and also considering which side has more value (depending on exactly what you mean by “value,” this could be Badger or Snake. All those approaching are going to give you slightly different answers. 

I left unfriendly environment which saw no value in me or my culture for a more friendly place, where my roots are, where I can make my own decisions, but I had to leave my family. I didn’t feel good there, had no one I wanted to hold onto. But even though I am not a badger, but I am still in a missing people mood. 

I bet you are. You’re a Snake, and you don’t have any People right now. (You’re not Burned. You’ve just recently moved to a new place, and don’t have any People yet.)

This was absolutely the Snake decision, also. You didn’t feel valued, so you went where you knew you could set things up the way you like them. You left your family to do it, and sure leaving your family hurts, but I think you would have felt like you’d betrayed yourself if you stayed.

Connection is so human, and we fuck it up so bad from so early on. Does it matter if you still feel alone around people who surround you? It doesn’t, so maybe it’s better to let your family members rest, be somewhere lonely without them and try to do it yourself. Is it already depressing? I am sorry I hope this doesn’t feel like trauma dumping.

Nah, you’re fine. You’re absolutely going to find people you connect to. 

6.

My fantasies change with time depending on what inspires and moves me then. I fantasize about a Scandinavian style house, surrounded by snow and a night sky, full of books and huge windows when I just want to run away. Other times I fantasize about being a powerful wizard on the run or in disguise, just trying to live with friends, accepted and running from some kind of huge responsibilities or a war. Not that I never fantasized about something more ambitious, but that probably changed with how my life experiences shaped the worldview I have now. Do I have to mention fantasies of falling in love with someone nice while doing something that I like and brings me joy or is that just basic haha?

The “living with friends/falling in love with someone nice”... that’s very human, but since this significant other person features heavily in a short description of your fantasy, going to put that as a point for Snake primary. 

7.

The characters I identify most with probably has nothing to do with me or who I am, more with how I see them. I identify with Lorelai from Gilmore Girls. In my opinion, she has a similar energy to me, to what I think I am inside or could be with a little more stability and confidence. She talks nonsense, and it is fine most of the time, people still like her. She loves her community, her little town, she creates life there and doesn’t wish to leave, and she doesn’t feel a need to run or rush somewhere. I feel I am most healthy and stable when that rush leaves me, and I am stable enough in here and now to actually live there. 

I was honestly pretty happy with Lion Secondary as a sorting for you. But now I wonder. This doesn’t seem like something a Lion secondary would say. It seems like a Neutral Snake would say. And Lorelai is a VERY loud Neutral Snake (and a very loud Snake primary.

Now, Lion secondaries can be mellow, and just want to Vibe, but I absolutely do see shape-shifting capabilities from you, and I wouldn’t expect to see them from a Lion (unless you also had models or performances.) When you were a kid you were careful and thinking a lot about the ‘correct’ thing around your mom, but wild around your friends. In the bribing situation you came in with a persona, but then switched around - you’re funny, you’re interesting, you’re naive. Also in the wizard fantasy - you’re running away from the war, you don’t want to deal with it. Lion secondaries tend to fantasize about being revolutionaries or leading armies. 

Snake Secondaries who like staying in Neutral have a blunt take-it-or-leave it quality which I do see from you, but you also seem just... kind of tired. Not Burnt, but just kind of done with dealing with a family who makes you feel lonely, an administration who isn’t helpful, an environment that doesn’t value your culture... no wonder you just want the ability to just say whatever, and not have to think about it. 

I also think that the lack of a Person (which is a primary issue) is making this whole ask much more ‘authenticity’ flavored than it would be otherwise. You want, you really really desperately want a person to trust enough, and value enough, to be that level of authentic with. 

I identify with Joy from Everything Everywhere, because she feels like a friend who doesn’t need you to tell them how you feel in these feeble words, she looks at you, and she knows, the whole movie knows. 

You’re fantasizing about someone who just *gets* you, immediately. (You’re fantasizing about a Person.)

Likewise, I identify with Hunter from The Owl House. He says he misses knowing who he supposed to be. He comes from a really unhealthy background, but I just feel happy thinking how not only he himself warms up to people, but others warm up to him, see good in him, accept him and start to care, not how good people care, but how a friend cares. Hahaha, I identify with Pippin from LOTR movies, because he makes mistakes, and everyone around him is like WTF can you not, why don’t you just stand in one place or be tied to a leash? He’s not stupid, he’s not careless, he’s not bad or ignorant per se, mistakes just happen, it’s natural and instead of being made to feel wrong, let’s just not do that and make it normal, because it will happen, and we will learn from our mistakes without pressure or shouting. It’s a miracle Pippin wants to do things after all.

You’re fantasizing about getting a group of People. Don’t think it’s at all a coincidence that both the Owl House and the Lord of the Rings focus on a small, rag-tag group of people who don’t quite fit, for one reason or another. I also think you’ve probably been dealing with someone who does not react to *normal* mistakes in a healthy way. So of course Pippin and Hunter would be comforting. 

8.

Things that make me feel powerful? Money, having choices, being able to say no, I will not do anything of what you suggest and instead do this completely different thing. Because I can, because I want it, because I can see I will succeed, I will make it. I can choose to do things my way. You need money or other resources to be able to do that. Calling a plumber and being able to pay them would make me more powerful than waiting for someone I know do me a favor based on our relationship. While not being able to select what I want, or having crappy choices wherever I look makes me feel locked up and incredible passive. To quote the quiz, helplessness doesn’t make me angry, it freezes m, but I don’t get angry.

Damn. Yeah, I don’t know what I can say to any of that. What is power? Money, and the ability to say no. And really, when you get down to it - money is important when it allows to say no. The more you can say no, the more powerful you are. 

9.

Recently graduating was the most difficult thing I had to do. I had little to no help, big expectations from the board and little freedom on what decision I could make. Myself already being anxious about what I will do in the future and this major giving me panic attacks in the making did not help focus and do it right. I wonder would it have been better if I majored in something I loved but was kind of useless, than something I hated but what is seen as practical and marketable.

There really isn’t a right answer there. Not everyone needs to love their job, but some do. Some people are fine without a steady paycheck, or without a large paycheck - but some aren’t. Any decision that involves the future like that is going to be a gamble. And I guess I’m at the point now, with how fast the world and the economy is changing, that trying to guess what will be practical and marketable ten years down the line - isn’t nearly as sure a thing as it used to be. 

From what I’ve gathered, thesis can feel useless. I knew a guy who paid someone to write it for him, and honestly with my own experience I wouldn’t care about ethics of it now and would have rather done that if I could have a chance. In the end, how exactly writing your last paper, thesis shows your skills? Sure, you can follow academic paper writing rules, you can use computer, you can read and gather information from research papers, and you can ignore your anxiety and interview people, interpret their answers and have enough skill in a language you are using to not only make sense but follow all the rules. I guess you can use the skills somewhere; I am just talking myself out of this idea. Wait, if someone who never majored in your area and does not have the skills you worked for, can write you a paper and write it good, it’s not an excellent way to evaluate someone.

Yeah, Snake secondary for sure. And what can I say, you make a compelling case. The structural problems in academia, the classism, the behind-the-times - it’s very much still there, and there are lots of people who can talk about it much better than I can. 

My friends were busy with their own stuff, my family were far away and with a big generational gap, professors didn’t help and then evaluated me strangely. It was really hard to see a person I knew for a few years, liked, wanted to impress be against me. Sorry I am tired, but I really needed to write something, and this seemed like a good thing to occupy myself with. Off course, I don’t know how you feel about academic unfaithfulness, but from my perspective, my experience was shitty enough that I wouldn’t give a flying sausage if there would be a next time, especially if I did everything else the right way. I really don’t know how much it was me, because it was me in some ways, but I still think my supervisor didn’t help me, but was ready to judge me. She probably felt she wasn’t paid enough to deal with my problems then. Right. You know what I want to do now? I want to never look back, never get back there, and never even touch this major. I want to leave it in the past and start anew. I want to be able to choose and not be tied to it.

Spoken like a snake secondary. And no wonder why you seem so tired. Also, being treated badly by your advisor is going to hurt anybody... but ESPECIALLY a snake primary. 

Thank you for your time. Have a great day. Or night.

Hello, I could use some help figuring out my secondary. I'm a Snake primary, but I can't for the life of me figure out whether my true secondary is Snake or Lion. Sorry, this gets kind of trauma-dump-y. Please don't feel obligated to respond if it's too much.

For context, my father is a religious fanatic, the loudest and stubbornest Lion I've ever known, and the cause of most of my trauma. My mother is a Snake and self-appointed interpersonal damage control for my father.

Sounds like we've got the co-dependent/enabling thing going on. That's going to make you feel some sort of way about Lion AND Snake primaries.

Now because of the aforementioned trauma, I'm extremely conflict avoidant. I'm often too scared to even make reasonable requests, and arguing triggers my freeze and fawn response even when I'm just witnessing it and not directly involved.

Yep. That's a thing. And a recipe for Burning, in the terminology of this system.

On the surface, my secondary seems very Snake. In social situations, I read the people around me and adjust my performance accordingly without consciously thinking about it. When I feel backed into a corner, I just play along, lying as needed. As long as the other person or people involved aren't my People, the only guilt I feel about acting Snakish is just a distant-feeling residue from my religious upbringing. When those I'm interacting with are my People, I still don't feel too guilty about tailoring the way I act to them, so long as I'm not lying or being self-servingly manipulative.

So far this could just be a Snake secondary. I know that building Snake secondary models to survive unstable or unsafe situations is absolutely a thing, but you... seem to enjoy it?

When I catch myself lying to one of my People, it's either a defensive move relating to something I don't feel safe letting them know the whole truth of (e.g., letting my mother know the extent of my queerness or my rejection of the religion I was raised in) or a very minor lie that accidentally slipped out for no particular reason I can think of (usually saying I don't know/understand something that I actually do. This may be related to certain elements of my upbringing). In both cases, I feel guilty in a deeper, more personal way. However, the defensive lying seems like a difficult necessity, and the accidental lying seems harmless enough that I can get over it fairly easily.

Both of these examples I think are just... people things.

I'd say that not letting your mother (and then potentially your fanatical father) know that you're a queer atheist is just... smart? And lying to say "no please explain" "yes I've seen that show" just to... keep the conversation going, avoid conflict, build community. THAT'S a Human Thing, as well.

When I catch myself being manipulative toward my People though, I feel extremely guilty, sometimes to the point that it leads to a panic attack. However, I wasn't always nearly so careful to avoid manipulating my People. When I was a kid, I was an absolutely terrible friend. I was controlling and constantly fishing for compliments from my friends by self-deprecating, even though this clearly made them very uncomfortable. At the same time however, I was obsessed with fairness and terrified of being selfish, so I have no idea why I didn't realize sooner that acting this way toward my friends was unfair and selfish.

You were under-confident (and probably convinced/told that you could never be good enough - ie "terrified of being selfish") and had an unstable home base. So I'm not surprised at all that this translated into fishing for compliments from, and trying to control your friends. Give yourself a break. You were a kid. You're allowed to be kind of an asshole when you're a kid.

(I tend to think that it's your environment and not yourself to blame until you're at least 12 or so.)

Whatever the reason, I didn't make an effort to stop doing this until I was around twelve.

^^^ see above. Personally, I think you're free and clear.

To this day, the way I treated my childhood friends is one of my deepest regrets, and I worry that I might slip back into those old habits if I'm not careful.

I'm... not that worried. Although this focus on immutable personal identity is very much an Internal primary thing (Snake + Lion.)

Despite my fear of being manipulative, Snake secondary still seems like the best way to go about things. Bird and Badger seem to require too much effort that might not pay off for my taste, and Lion seems foolhardy.

Snake does seem to be in the lead here.

However. I'm secretly sort of obsessed with the idea of power. I constantly fantasize about being powerful enough to just plow through anything that stands in my way, and making people fear me enough that no one will ever try to hurt me or my People again. I feel vaguely guilty about these fantasies, especially because they involve not being bound to any sort of moral code and not needing to ever worry about the consequences of my actions. So even though I know that these fantasies are probably just a result of feeling completely powerless so often throughout my childhood, and that fantasies don't actually hurt anyone, I worry sometimes that they mean I'm a bad person.

They don't. You're fine. I'd even say that some healthy power fantasies at times when you're feeling powerless are *good* for you. And sure there's a Lion flavor here, but so many power fantasy characters are Lions that I don't think I can go and attribute a Lion secondary to you based on this. After all, there are lots of things that are fun to fantasize about that would be no fun at all if they actually happened.

Even outside of my fantasies, something about the Lion secondary way of doing things sounds satisfying in a way Snake secondary just isn't. At the same time though, putting all of myself out there for everyone to see sounds terrifying.

I'm not sure if I'm able to say if you just *like* the idea of a Lion secondary because it sounds powerful and strong. Or if you *are* a Lion secondary, and have a Snake secondary model that is very robust and you like quite a lot. Either way, I would definitely experiment with spending some time in... neutral. Not preforming for anyone, just existing.

Sometimes I feel like a coward for being too afraid to stand up for what I believe in like Lions do, but I'm also afraid of being like my father, the aforementioned extreme Lion.

This is primary stuff. And yeah, I *bet* you have some issues with putting your foot down and saying 'this feels right and this feels wrong.' But for what it's worth, I don't see any evidence of you being your father. If anything, the danger seems to be you over-correcting in the opposite direction.

Anyway, I think that's about it. It seems to come down to whether I'm a burned Lion with a Snake model, or just a traumatized Snake with religious guilt. Thanks for your time, and for any insight if you choose to answer this.

The good news is that you seem to like your Snake just fine. I really don't see any burning there, apart from some very mild, garden variety "Snake is the bad guy one."

Your primary though... if anything has taken burning it's that. There's a through line to this post where you're scared of wanting things - "too scared to even make reasonable requests" "too afraid to stand up for what I believe in"- or scared of wanting the *wrong* things - "I worry that I might slip back into those old habits," "I worry sometimes that they mean I'm a bad person."

Outside of any other context, these fears and these sentiments feel like Burnt Lion primary to me. I get that option feels unsafe because of your father, but it's something to at least think about. You might be a Snake who models Lion when their people are safe. You might be a Lion with a very Snake-looking morality. Either way, I think it's very likely that there's a Lion influence mixed in there, which you should look at when you're ready.

PS - I can't seem to hide my emotions. It might just be an autism thing, but for whatever reason, unless I'm consciously thinking about it super hard, I'm always nonverbally broadcasting how I'm really feeling, to the point that it can be a problem sometimes. And trying to hide it feels Wrong somehow, like I can't properly feel my emotions if I'm not physically expressing them.

If this isn't just an autism thing or some kind of coping mechanism, it sounds like a Lion secondary thing, right?

YES.

Ferris doesn't plan - he reacts, he solves the problem in front of him, and he uses the resources in his immediate environment to do it. Even his contraptions are more Snakey than Birdy - ingenious Rube Goldberg machines clearly built for one use only, right before he needs to actually use them.

The way he interacts with people is also Snakey. He has slightly different versions of himself that he uses to charm Sloane, Cameron, his mom, his dad, his school, his entire town. Heck, he speaks directly to the camera and charms the viewer. And he so clearly delights in face-changing, costumes, coming up with stories on the fly. I think he's a Snake primary too, with a pretty small circle. Just his girlfriend, his best friend, and (by the end of the film) his sister.

Jeanie Bueller... is interesting. She's really, really judgy about her brother's Snake secondary, and seems so direct and Lion-y... but she's just so pissed off and defensive and MISERABLE in her Lion secondary. It's like she's wearing it as armor. For whatever reason, she thinks Ferris' methods won't work for her. "I'd get caught [if I ditched]" "If I was bleeding out my eyes, you'd make me go to school," "Everyone else has to go." I think Jeanie is actually a burnt snake secondary... who redeems herself by going full Snake at the end to save Ferris, and destroy Principal Rooney.

Cameron Frye is also an incredibly burnt secondary. He spends most of the movie completely passive, stalled, almost catatonic (wouldn't be surprised if he's another Bird Lion, going catatonic in moments of existential crisis is kind of their trademark). It's only after the car is destroyed that we start seeing the Lion secondary that exists under everything. He *wants* to stands his ground, he *wants* the heat. Something which Double Snake Ferris just does not understand.

Also, in a really subtle bit of costuming - after Cameron has this realization, the medical caduceus he wears on his T shirt disappears. Because he isn't sick anymore.