The Yeshivish Dating Process
Since all one (1) of you have expressed interest in a detailed explanation of how dating works for yeshivish people, Iâm going to write down what Iâve spent a good few years compiling in my head.
For some reason, this is the thing my brain likes going crazy over, so buckle up, it's going to be a ride!
Disclaimers:
This process is mostly the same for the majority of frum Ashkenazi Jews in the US, but since I am most familiar with the yeshivish world, Iâm going to stick to what I know.
There will always be exceptions! âI know a guy whoâŚâ âThis couple didâŚâ You are correct! There are always outliers. I will be describing what I perceive as normal, relative to the people and stories that I know. If you did/are doing/want to do something different, go forth!Â
Iâm mostly referring here to a first marriage. Iâm not as familiar with how a previously married person would date, but it does follow the same general lines. Sometimes. It depends.
Iâm not sure what you, the specific readerâs, knowledge base is, so Iâm assuming you know very little and will try to explain as much as I can.
I. General Knowledge
Dating in the yeshivish world is purely to find a spouse, itâs not for fun or short-term relationships. Romance is generally not the goal, the point is to see if the two people like each other and have similar goals and values. Men and women who are not related are not allowed to touch each other (shomer negiah) or be in an enclosed space alone together (yichud).Â
II. Prep
The first thing that happens is that a person decides they are ready to start dating. Usually, after high school, girls and guys attend additional religious education (mostly in Israel). On average, girls start to date between the age of 19-21 and guys between 21-23.
At this point, they need to decide what kind of person they want to marry. What traits are important for their spouse to have, or if theyâre looking for a certain background, etc. Since character traits/values are hard to pin down, and most people can be described as âniceâ, there are certain concrete details theyâll have to provide. One of the most important ones is if they are, or are looking for, a âlearning boyâ.
Many yeshivish men will stay in yeshiva (hence the name) and continue to study the Torah after marriage. While they do get a stipend, itâs usually not much. So both guys and girls need to decide if thatâs something that they want to have in their married lives, and if so, for how long.
Other things theyâd have to decide might be the age range theyâre looking for, family background, or where they would like to live.
After thatâs been decided, the next thing to do is write up a resume. Yes, a resume. This resume should have:
A) Personal information
Name, age, address, sometimes height
Parentsâ names and occupations, the shul (synagogue) the family attends
Siblingsâ names/ages
Schools attended
Current occupation
B) References
Rabbiâs phone number
Phone number of siblingsâ parents-in-law, if applicable
Family references, i.e. neighbors or family friends
Teacher(s)â phone number
Phone numbers of friends
This resume, along with a headshot (I dislike this immensely) will be passed on to shadchanim (matchmakers, singular shadchan) and then to prospective dates. (If you're thinking "Boy, that's a lot of personal information of mine that just floating around!" Why yes. Yes it is.)
Note: Itâs polite to ask the people on the resume if they are willing/able to give information about you before actually putting them down.
III. Suggestions
Suggestions for a shidduch (match) can come from either a professional shadchan or just any random person, who will be referred to as the shadchan, as well. A shadchan can be a neighbor, a friend, your aunt, or really just anyone who knows a boy and a girl and thinks âHuh, I wonder if they would like each other?â According to a statistic that I read that may or may not be true, around 40% of all suggestions are made by non-professional shadchanim.Â
This is why mothers of singles tell them to always make sure to look nice when leaving the house, because âyou never know who will see you and think of an idea.â I will admit that even though I dislike this, it is true.
Regarding professional shadchanim, since they donât know you, you have to reach out to them yourself. Generally it is the mother of the boy or girl who will do this. The mother will describe her child and what theyâre looking for over the phone, and sometimes the shadchan will meet the boy or girl in person as well. (I would generally advise not to have the parent come along, it doesnât give a good impression.) (These are like dentist visits: necessary, annoying, and usually not as bad as you feared.)
Once the shadchan has an idea for a shidduch, they will usually reach out to the boyâs side first to describe the girl and send her resume (this is called âredtingâ). The parents will then call the references on the resume to find out more about the girl and her family, and decide if they want to proceed with the shidduch.
Either during this time or once the boyâs side says yes, the shadchan will redt the idea to the girlâs side, and they will do the same, calling the references on the boyâs resume.
Common research questions will be:
What can you tell me about the family?
What can you tell me about the boy/girl?
Tell me about their values.
How did the parents raise their children?
What does the boy/girl like to do in their free time?
Are they conscientious in their Torah learning and/or tefilla (prayer)?
How do the children-in-law feel about their parents-in-law?
Are they involved in chessed (kindness, charity)?
Having been a reference for friends of mine, I can tell you that sometimes references will get asked absolutely out-of-pocket questions, but these are a sampling of the questions that will usually be asked.
If you agree to be a reference for someone, here are some things to know:
Prepare beforehand! Plan something out in advance, and ideally write some short notes. If someone asks you to tell them about your friend, you want to have a spiel that talks about their personality and good traits.
Bring examples! Telling a story of a time that the person did something kind is much more impactful than simply stating that theyâre kind.
Ask the person who youâre a reference for what kind of boy/girl theyâre looking for. This can be part of your notes.
If youâre asked, âIs the boy/girl smart?â donât answer with âNot really.â (This actually happened.) Say positive things! If theyâre not stupid, then theyâre smart. Or theyâre smart with people. Be diplomatic.
Having said that, donât give false information. The goal is not to have the other side say yes to your friend, but rather for them to get a good picture of who this person is.
Try to give off a good impression. Your behaviour will reflect on your friend as a person.
If you are the one calling for information, remember that youâre giving off an impression, too. If I had the mother of a boy call me and ask weird questions, Iâd call my friend immediately after and say âHey, Mrs. So-and-so called me for info, and she was odd. Maybe stay away from this one.â
Once both sides give a yes, the shadchan will arrange a day and time for the date that works for both sides.
(This is the part where I begin to panic. Help I have nothing to wear, what if I like him, what if it's awkward, aaaaaaaaaah, etc.) (It will be awkward at first. It always is.)
IV. The Early Dates
A. Date Prep
Preparing for a date looks different depending on whether you are the boy or the girl. For a boy, preparations include deciding on a place to go.Â
The first two, or sometimes three, dates take place in a hotel lobby, so find out hotels that have nice seating areas. If at all possible, try checking places out in person so that you donât need to wander around trying to find a spot to sit. A good spot will have comfortable chairs, be semi-private, and not be near any distracting TVs.
Also, the guy will usually rent/borrow a car for the date, as most guys donât have a car at their disposal.
Other tips:
Make sure to have a backup hotel too, just in case. (On one date, we drove to a hotel, but there was an event going on there so we went to his backup.)Â
Have the hotel addresses and a GPS so you donât get lost.Â
Clean your car! No girl wants to get into a dirty car.
Stock your car with umbrellas, tissues and water bottles.
Bring a straw for your date, the hotel bar may not have. (When guys did this for me, it felt very thoughtful.)
Make sure you look clean and neat. It matters a lot.
Since the guy is the âhostâ for the date, itâs his job to make sure his date is comfortable and the conversation is flowing. Prepare some open-ended questions to ask when conversation lulls.
Since the guy will be coming to the girlâs house to pick her up, preparations for the girl include making sure the house looks neat and clean. A dirty house gives off an impression of a messy family life. (My mother always makes sure the bathroom is extra clean before a date, but weâve been told that a guy would rather use the side of a house than use the bathroom at his dateâs house đ)
Set the table with some small pastries, chocolates, candy or nuts and some water.
Yes, the guy is the host, but you should also prepare some questions to ask to keep the conversation going.
Iâve noticed that the dress code on dates has become slightly more casual than previously. I think it went from wedding guest attire to like, very slightly plainer than that.
B. The Actual Date
Usually, the date will begin at the girlâs house, but itâs pretty common for this to happen at a close relative or family friendâs house. (This is usually for reasons of privacy if the girlâs house is in a busy area, or she has many younger siblings. Iâll go more into the privacy topic below.)
A few minutes after the scheduled time for the date is when the boy rings the doorbell. (In my opinion, this should be 3-5 minutes after.) The door is opened by the parents of the girl, they greet him and invite him inside to sit at the table which was set earlier. At this point, the girl is not in the room.
The parents of the girl will begin some small talk with the guy. This should be the smallest of small talk - how was the traffic, the weather is crazy, etc. The parents can ask what yeshiva and/or shul he goes to, just to play a bit of Jewish geography.
The parents should offer him some of the food/drink thatâs on the table. The boy should refuse. The boy ALWAYS refuses. There are numerous jokes about setting out plastic food on dates, because he never ever eats it. The parents know this. The boy knows this. The fancy china on the table knows this. We must still go through the skit.
After a few minutes of chit-chat, the mother goes to get the girl, and brings her to the table. At this point, she either sits down and they chit-chat for another minute, or he stands up right away and they leave on the date.
There is a big debate about whether or not to open the car door for the girl. Some feel that thatâs just a polite thing to do. Others feel that itâs an infiltration of non-Jewish culture into the frum world, as itâs seeing women as weaker or lesser, when the frum view is that men and women are equal but with different roles. I personally prefer when a guy opens my door, but donât take it as a bad thing if they donât. But I do have friends who really dislike when guys open their doors, so itâs subjective.
Either way, they get into the car and drive to the hotel. At the hotel, they either sit down first and talk for a bit before getting a drink and sitting down again, or get the drink then sit down. I usually ask for water. The once that I did ask for a soda, the guy could help but look really shocked for a second before getting it, and I never. did it. again. That could just be a him thing, but I donât think so, based on othersâ experiences.
(Interestingly, many times when a guy brought me to a hotel, he asks if I've been there before on a date. Always makes me slightly uncomfortable to discuss other guys I've dated, even indirectly, but đ¤ˇââď¸ they never seem uncomfortable if I say yes lol.)
Topics of conversation on a first date include things like: siblings - how many and what do they do, school experiences, vacations youâve been on, hobbies, etc. Nothing too deep or personal.Â
DO NOT ask a guy about what heâs learning (in Torah). I personally like to hear about that kind of thing, but itâs seen as you quizzing the guy, which is bad. Never say anything disparaging about yourself on a date, even as a joke. A lot of guys do this, but remember: this person is a stranger, they donât really know you or your sense of humor yet. As I mentioned, compliments (or even just observances) on appearances should ALWAYS be avoided.
I was always told that a first date is just to see if the other person seems sane and normal, and that you donât absolutely hate each other. So a first date should be pretty surface level, with light, fun, easy-breezy conversation. After that, things slowly get deeper. On a second or third date (usually third), Iâve had guys bring some cards with conversation topics to discuss.
After 2-3 hours of talking, the boy should suggest, âOh, do you want to head back?â This is not a question, the answer is âYeah, sounds good.â They drive back to the girlâs house and he drops her off. He does NOT walk her to her door. One guy that I dated got out of the car when I did and stood next to it as I walked inside, but most just parked and let me out.
At some point that evening or the next day, the boyâs side lets the shadchan know if itâs a yes or a no. The shadchan contacts the girlâs side with the answer, and hears if theyâd like to proceed. Iâve heard many people say that unless the first date was a total disaster, they should try a second date.
Dates are usually spaced out to be on average two a week, but that can depend on many things.
V. The Later Dates
Later dates have much fewer hard and fast rules as the earlier dates. These dates can be at a restaurant, or a park, or anywhere that has an activity and is good for talking. Usually the awkward talking with the parents at the beginning will be skipped also.
The number of dates to go on before an engagement varies a lot! Most of my siblings got engaged on the 8th date, but one got engaged on the 14th. One of my cousins got engaged after 5, and a friend of mine says 10 is the minimum. It should be at a point where both people feel ready to get engaged, but not so long as to be stringing them along or dragging it out.
In the end, dating usually takes between 1-2 months. Although I do know many people who dated for shorter than that, the general consensus is if it works for them, fine, but itâs very surprising and not recommended. (There's a well known dating coach who went on THREE dates with his future wife before getting engaged. 𤣠He did date other girls before though.)
As I briefly mentioned earlier, privacy while dating is a big deal. Most of my very close friends did not tell me they were getting engaged until a week or so before it happened, or even just the night before. (Even my sister, who Iâm very close to, only told me about her future husband after the 5th date. I tell her about every date I have lol.) I will also generally not tell my friends about a date until Iâve stopped dating that guy and itâs been a week or two. This is also a very personal and subjective thing though.
Somewhere around the 5th date is when things will be getting serious. More important topics will be discussed on dates, and the girl will meet the boyâs parents. This usually happens at the beginning of a date, the parents and the couple will meet at the date location, talk for a few minutes, and then the parents will leave.
Once a couple decides to get engaged, theyâll tell their parents after the date, and often the next date will be the proposal.
At this point in time, the parents get together to discuss the financial matters of who will be paying for what in the wedding and how much will be contributed for the coupleâs support.
The proposal date is often pretty short, lasting about an hour. The boy does not propose with a ring, but he will most likely give her a bouquet of flowers. (Note that he will say that this is from his mother, halacha (Jewish law) states that him giving a gift could result in a state called kiddushin, which is legally engaged and since that can make things very complicated, itâs avoided.)
Then the couple returns to girlâs house where they and their parents drink a toast, the couple takes a very awkward picture together (no touching!), and a small group of close friends and relatives join them for a small party with refreshments. This is called the lâchaim, and hooray! Youâre engaged!
Please let me know if you have any questions or would like something clarified, as you can see I have lots to say on the subject! If you have any funny date stories, Iâd love to hear!
Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.
For my own curiosity, did you know most of this already?
Yeah, I lived/am living it! đ
I was familiar with some of it, but not all the nitty-gritty!
This is very new to me, and it is. A lot.












