"If the male lays the egg, the alignments of the child's two halves will 8e the same as the parents. If the female lays the egg, the alignments will 8e flipped, and the young male and female halves will 8e endowed with opposite alignments of the parents." Because of this, could we assume that after the scratch the male would be the one to fertilize the female cherub and thus cause the alignments of Caliborn and Calliope to be flipped? I mean why else would this information be given?
I’m still too busy to make a proper post on the cherub information - which, in all honesty, will probably save us some time since I won’t be corrected once we’ve heard the rest of it - but I will say this much.
I highly doubt that a scratch would flip the mating victor, and thus their alignments. Not only are there genetic issues (would the winner be the same person, or even have the same name?) to worry about by messing with the snake sex process, but also:
And though it was to her 8enefit and personal growth, 8ecause of this loss she would always live with a sense that something was missing. Every sexually mature cheru8 lives with this feeling. It drives them to seek out another cheru8Â similar to the half they lost, the part of their 8eing which they grew up in perpetual conflict with.
Having alt!Calliope come into conflict with Lord English only makes sense if she has the same creation-oriented disposition as Calliope. In other words, alt!Calliope probably isn’t evil.
We were likely introduced to the alignment rules for a combination of two reasons.
To assure us that female cherubs can indeed be evil, and male cherubs can indeed be good. It’d be kind of dumb if they were completely exclusive to one gender each.
To inform us that despite this, there was a concrete rule holding together their alignments and keeping them as they were, for later.
A forced scratch of Caliborn’s session - the glitch to which the narrative alludes - would not only assure circumstantially that Calliope would play instead of Caliborn, but may also accomplish such by allowing the heroes to modify the conditions in which alt!Calliope and alt!Caliborn were raised, to better assure the former’s predomination. After all, as far as we know, alt!Calliope has never directly contacted anyone, so her earlier life must have been at least somewhat different.
If you’ve kept up with my twitter, I mentioned that I had another conversation with Michael of Project: Ballad the other night. He had the idea that in the scratched cherubs’ universe, Davesprite - the one prototyped into a crow sprite that once cared for an egg entry item until its split hatching, and has plenty of Calliope and angel associations - might raise the egg and the cherubs instead of Gamzee, to encourage Calliope’s predomination and entrance into the game.
(I might make a quick rebloggable version of that tomorrow, if I feel like it, but I won’t make any promises. :P)
schafpudel asked you:
Scratches function by changing when the baby meteors arrive from the defense portal to the player’s home planet, splitting the timeline into two major branches. How can a scratch affect the cherub session, when we now explicitly know that they were conceived and dropped off onto their home planet within the confines their home universe? Skaia has no way to meddle with who gets to play and who doesn’t if meteors aren’t involved.
But as long as the timing of at least one meteor changes, any sort of meteor, as long as there’s any excuse at all for a scratch to branch the timeline so there's a valid and un-doomed split they can enter and always have entered - (Quite an exploit of spacetime, indeed, if they have to engineer such an excuse!) - they can manually affect the conditions surrounding the cherubs’ youth, just as Betty Crocker moved manually and linearly across the scratch and had varying influence each time without being reset/branched herself.
Of course, the idea that a scratch occurred circumstantially guarantees that their manual efforts to have Calliope predominate would succeed. On the other side of a scratch, the other group or individual always plays!
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Okay, so, there was a lot of stuff we could pull out of this update, a lot of god damn stuff, and I haven't sorted through half of it yet. Instead, I was dizzily using a sparring partner to theorize about this stuff and try, just try, to keep my head on straight about what was going on? I mean, it might have seemed straightforward, but so many things probably need clarification and adjustment....
Aughbluhfrghfvf. Â I love Homestuck.
Anyway... under the cut I talk about these cherubs' worldbuilding, some other stuff, stuff about Light and black holes and reality reproduction evidence and Knight to D6 and what the hell a third scratch is gonna do now and even roxy/cherub kisses and potential goddamn realities maybe resetting but probably not and then some stuff that the creator of Project: Ballad talked to me on twitter earlier about (you guys should look at my twitter on the sidebar stuff's finally going to be happening there) with a nice quote from the comic implying that Davesprite is somehow the one who moves Earth??? through completely unknown means but, yeah, that would at least serve some of the earlier cherub reference purposes in his arc, and the whole dang, uh, where's the link to it... here, that theme. Disclaimer, don't take ANYTHING SERIOUSLY about these random musings, I'm not assigning serious probability to these even if I use words like 'is' and stuff, moreso than ever in these chats I'm just assuming branches to try to walk down them and see what happens if it's true, to help determine likelihood later when I'm more coherent and revisit this pile of BS
(EDIT: Â Updating (for like a day or 2) repository of links on thoughts: Lord English "earns his wings" metaphorically by jacking Jake's body for the endgame after the breach opens, which is from a meta standpoint why he might be 'missing' angel wings right now - ...(edited-in links to come maybe, as asks are answered))
Augh god I just realized there's going to be another Homestuck update tomorrow night before I've even finished sorting the other half of this out... @___@
[3/7/13 11:24:00 PM] TheFinalWraith: Well that was something
[3/7/13 11:24:28 PM] blastyoboots: ah, hello
[3/7/13 11:24:37 PM] blastyoboots: are you, like
[3/7/13 11:24:41 PM] blastyoboots: in a theorizing mood
[3/7/13 11:24:44 PM] TheFinalWraith: Sure
[3/7/13 11:24:50 PM] blastyoboots: is your thinkpan sizzling
[3/7/13 11:24:54 PM] TheFinalWraith: ...
[3/7/13 11:24:57 PM] TheFinalWraith: You can stop now
[3/7/13 11:24:59 PM] blastyoboots: because I REALLY need someone to bounce thoughts off of
[3/7/13 11:25:10 PM] blastyoboots: just to sort through this information and these metaphors
[3/7/13 11:25:58 PM] TheFinalWraith: It seems like not!Calliope is chasing after Lord English
[3/7/13 11:26:13 PM] TheFinalWraith: Unless there's another evil cherub who happened to become unfathomably powerful
[3/7/13 11:26:20 PM] TheFinalWraith: Which I guess is possible
[3/7/13 11:27:03 PM] blastyoboots: I think we have to call that cherub "not?!Calliope"
[3/7/13 11:27:08 PM] blastyoboots: which looks hilarious
[3/7/13 11:27:49 PM] blastyoboots: [3/7/13 11:18:55 PM] blastyoboots: a third scratch is basically guaranteed, the foreshadowing is solid, and I had *assumed* that it would result in Calliope being brought back
[3/7/13 11:27:59 PM] blastyoboots: ^^^ but that may or may not be the case, here
[3/7/13 11:28:10 PM] TheFinalWraith: Also how are there trolls?
[3/7/13 11:28:20 PM] TheFinalWraith: Do they just kind of
[3/7/13 11:29:13 PM] TheFinalWraith: I mean they're native to universe A, and yet Caliborn is from universe C, right?
[3/7/13 11:29:23 PM] blastyoboots: Caliborn is from universe (?)
[3/7/13 11:29:30 PM] TheFinalWraith: Huh?
[3/7/13 11:29:52 PM] TheFinalWraith: I thought someone said that the Condesce moved the Earth somewhere else?
[3/7/13 11:30:09 PM] blastyoboots: it's a theoretical 'C' that we can't absolutely guarantee isn't part of an intact fragment of A or somehow inexplicably back in B
[3/7/13 11:30:21 PM] blastyoboots: Calliope could have been misinformed
[3/7/13 11:30:45 PM] TheFinalWraith: I guess
[3/7/13 11:31:13 PM] TheFinalWraith: Still doesn't really explain how Caliborn? blew up that planet that trolls were living on
[3/7/13 11:31:38 PM] blastyoboots: there are a couple of possible explanations
[3/7/13 11:31:54 PM] blastyoboots: alt!Calliope somehow intentionally seeding trolls places, or other weird things
[3/7/13 11:32:17 PM] blastyoboots: or universe C is actually universe B, or the like, as the trolls were quite a spanning empire
[3/7/13 11:32:28 PM] TheFinalWraith: But even if it was universe B
[3/7/13 11:32:48 PM] blastyoboots: not necessarily?
[3/7/13 11:33:11 PM] blastyoboots: do realize that after the A1 trolls all entered, even though there were meteors crashing about, there still could have been another force of destruction
[3/7/13 11:33:32 PM] blastyoboots: and again, in A2 at least, the trolls were a spanning empire
[3/7/13 11:34:08 PM] blastyoboots: these trolls look young, but there might have been other breeding planets we didn't know about; the conquered planets have to get populated somehow
[3/7/13 11:34:28 PM] blastyoboots: "other troll planets" might even be a key to this whole, er...
[3/7/13 11:35:15 PM] blastyoboots: TG: youre probably burning your nutjob meow book to spite her too arent youÂ
TT: No, I told you.Â
TT: It's one of the gene sequences locked in my subconcious.Â
TT: The gods say it's critical to destroy it.Â
TG: oh yeah
[3/7/13 11:35:27 PM] blastyoboots: JASPERSPRITE: Rose im just a cat and i dont know much but i know that youre important and also you are what some people around here call the Seer of Light.Â
JASPERSPRITE: And you dont know what that means but you will see its all tied together!Â
JASPERSPRITE: All the life in the ocean and all the shiny rain and the songs in your head and the letters they make.Â
JASPERSPRITE: A beam of light i think is like a drop of rain or a long piece of yarn that dances around when you play with it and make it look enticing!Â
JASPERSPRITE: And the way that it shakes is the same as what makes notes in a song!Â
JASPERSPRITE: And a song i think can be written down as letters.Â
JASPERSPRITE: So if you play the right song and it makes all the right letters then those letters could be all the letters that make life possible.Â
JASPERSPRITE: So all you have to do is wake up and learn to play the rain!Â
JASPERSPRITE: Does that make sense rose sorry i disappeared for so long.
[3/7/13 11:35:37 PM] blastyoboots: oh damn
[3/7/13 11:36:03 PM] blastyoboots: if the combination with this is true, that might mean Rose could literally resurrect Kanaya's race?
[3/7/13 11:36:11 PM] blastyoboots: just by playing the rain?
[3/7/13 11:36:44 PM] blastyoboots: the idea that the codes for possible races are all locked in Light
[3/7/13 11:37:00 PM] TheFinalWraith: That seems more like a Seer of Life's job to me
[3/7/13 11:37:30 PM] blastyoboots: Life is power and energy, just causes things to grow and attain strength
[3/7/13 11:37:40 PM] blastyoboots: Light is their gene sequences
[3/7/13 11:37:53 PM] blastyoboots: coded information, Jaspersprite all but spells it out
[3/7/13 11:38:26 PM] blastyoboots: (you can still bring things up about it, I just wanted to type something else too)
[3/7/13 11:39:03 PM] blastyoboots: the Black Hole thing; obviously this adds a layer of reasoning for the whole Green Sun -> Black Hole thing, as well as serving as a metaphor for reality's reproduction
[3/7/13 11:39:47 PM] TheFinalWraith: I don't get how black holes can serve as reproductive functions for all cherubs
[3/7/13 11:39:54 PM] blastyoboots: the winner gains dominion over the entire territory, the loser "slinks off" to be the one to reproduce, and again the idea that the green ones are suited to being completely comfortable spending almost an eternity alone
[3/7/13 11:40:12 PM] TheFinalWraith: Like I thought the only reason that happened to Caliborn was because he broke the rules
[3/7/13 11:40:23 PM] blastyoboots: ie. making the green/good ones perfect potential Reality-capsules
[3/7/13 11:40:29 PM] blastyoboots: hell, they even look somewhat froglike
[3/7/13 11:43:12 PM] TheFinalWraith: Someone pointed out that there are parallels between what's going on with these cherubs
[3/7/13 11:43:25 PM] TheFinalWraith: And PM's tireless pursuit of Jack Noir
[3/7/13 11:43:49 PM] TheFinalWraith: Though of course Jack's motives are quite a bit different than Lord English's are in that instance
[3/7/13 11:46:39 PM] blastyoboots: back
[3/7/13 11:46:47 PM] blastyoboots: okay... oh
[3/7/13 11:46:57 PM] blastyoboots: that's a bit of a point ._.
[3/7/13 11:47:10 PM] TheFinalWraith: What's with that face?
[3/7/13 11:47:24 PM] blastyoboots: pm/jack romance, that's all
[3/7/13 11:48:03 PM] TheFinalWraith: Eh, seems incompatible, since PM appears to be the only person Jack doesn't hate
[3/7/13 11:48:31 PM] blastyoboots: what I mean is " ._. " as in, "do not want", for reasons including incompatibility
[3/7/13 11:48:45 PM] blastyoboots: anyway, where were we
[3/7/13 11:49:09 PM] blastyoboots: if I don't at least go through half of this my followers will strangle me, I don't have time to go into much more of it tomorrow until late
[3/7/13 11:50:04 PM] blastyoboots: let's see... the Lord English and (alt!Calliope?) duel takes place in and/or around the Black Hole
[3/7/13 11:50:28 PM] blastyoboots: ie. the truly massive one the Green Sun will create later
[3/7/13 11:50:51 PM] blastyoboots: (not this cherub right now, talking about later in the plot here)
[3/7/13 11:51:11 PM] blastyoboots: so we can gather she'll show up when they need to approach the Black Hole
[3/7/13 11:51:23 PM] blastyoboots: which is necessary if they're going to escape reality
[3/7/13 11:51:53 PM] blastyoboots: and: Â the whole, "the loser slinks off to reproduce, winner gains the whole original territory" thing
[3/7/13 11:52:38 PM] blastyoboots: Lord English and alt!Calliope(?) are at odds, dueling and staving each other off around or within the Black Hole
[3/7/13 11:52:54 PM] blastyoboots: and the one that *loses* is the one who would actually successfully leave reality
[3/7/13 11:53:03 PM] blastyoboots: so, indications say that this would be alt!Calliope
[3/7/13 11:53:24 PM] blastyoboots: and by 'reproduces', in this case, it'd be the creation of a whole new reality, a new instance of Paradox Space
[3/7/13 11:53:55 PM] blastyoboots: which she'd be perfectly fine embodying, as I mentioned earlier, because she'd be fine spending an eternity alone
[3/7/13 11:54:41 PM] blastyoboots: previously, we took the idea that the cherub race has "never had a home planet" as evidence that Gamzee might have created the race
[3/7/13 11:54:45 PM] blastyoboots: and heck, he still might've
[3/7/13 11:55:11 PM] blastyoboots: but the way they're being described, cherubs might be crucial for Paradox Space's reproduction in general
[3/7/13 11:55:24 PM] blastyoboots: ie. an intrinsic part of realities, like the aspects perhaps
[3/7/13 11:55:38 PM] TheFinalWraith: That's what I thought
[3/7/13 11:55:48 PM] TheFinalWraith: That they exist in every universe
[3/7/13 11:56:07 PM] blastyoboots: *if* they do?
[3/7/13 11:56:09 PM] blastyoboots: they might not
[3/7/13 11:56:12 PM] TheFinalWraith: And are part of the reproductive system mandated by Skaia/the Horrorterrors or maybe something above even them
[3/7/13 11:56:19 PM] blastyoboots: again, see: Â Gamzee possibly creating the race
[3/7/13 11:56:48 PM] blastyoboots: btw, the idea that angels and cherubs are intrinsic to paradox space and the idea that Gamzee created the race
[3/7/13 11:57:02 PM] TheFinalWraith: I suppose they aren't
[3/7/13 11:57:18 PM] blastyoboots: since in his jumbled combinations, he could have struck upon a strand of Light that was important to realities in general
[3/7/13 11:57:35 PM] blastyoboots: there might be capricious serendipity at work in other universes guaranteeing the existence of cherubs
[3/7/13 11:58:56 PM] TheFinalWraith: I still don't get why you doubt that Caliborn's eyes haven't already begun flashing
[3/7/13 11:59:11 PM] TheFinalWraith: I mean sure it looks artificial
[3/7/13 11:59:25 PM] TheFinalWraith: But remember that in homestuck, becoming a god gets you a nice set of pajamas
[3/8/13 12:00:10 AM] blastyoboots: you mean time powers just naturally make his eyes into cueballs?
[3/8/13 12:00:20 AM] TheFinalWraith: No
[3/8/13 12:00:23 AM] TheFinalWraith: But the Dead Session
[3/8/13 12:00:27 AM] TheFinalWraith: does
[3/8/13 12:00:34 AM] blastyoboots: Lord English's pegleg
[3/8/13 12:00:41 AM] TheFinalWraith: Like his reward for clearing each planet is he gets their power?
[3/8/13 12:00:53 AM] blastyoboots: it's golden, themed same as his tooth, flashing the same colors as his coat, and almost assuredly mechanical
[3/8/13 12:01:18 AM] blastyoboots: so why wouldn't he have made gaudy robotic eyes to symbolize his victory all the same?
[3/8/13 12:01:38 AM] TheFinalWraith: Because he doesn't need to?
[3/8/13 12:01:51 AM] blastyoboots: I see no reason why his session would have needed to carve out these exact eyes rotating at seizure-inducing speeds just to accommodate his tastes
[3/8/13 12:02:02 AM] blastyoboots: why can't he make them himself
[3/8/13 12:02:06 AM] blastyoboots: it's the sort of thing he'd do
[3/8/13 12:02:09 AM] TheFinalWraith: The not Felt already have numbers on their hats
[3/8/13 12:02:13 AM] blastyoboots: yes!
[3/8/13 12:02:33 AM] blastyoboots: the felt are already similar to billiards-themed, or the source of the concept of billiards in the first place, retroactively
[3/8/13 12:02:45 AM] blastyoboots: but at the same time, I mean
[3/8/13 12:02:48 AM] blastyoboots: take it like this:
[3/8/13 12:03:00 AM] blastyoboots: we already had hints that Caliborn was going to get blinded or lose his eyes
[3/8/13 12:03:02 AM] blastyoboots: big hints
[3/8/13 12:03:08 AM] blastyoboots: so if he had to replace his eyes
[3/8/13 12:03:18 AM] blastyoboots: why *wouldn't* he choose those rotating poolballs?
[3/8/13 12:03:26 AM] blastyoboots: it's exactly the sort of thing he'd do if he needed eye replacements
[3/8/13 12:03:47 AM] TheFinalWraith: For all we know, he already lost his eyes
[3/8/13 12:03:51 AM] blastyoboots: I know
[3/8/13 12:04:00 AM] blastyoboots: so I see no reason that we had to have maaAAaaAagic~ force the eyes on him
[3/8/13 12:04:03 AM] TheFinalWraith: Like who's to say Yaldabaoth didn't demand them as sacrifice
[3/8/13 12:04:15 AM] blastyoboots: when he would have easily made or used robotic eyes himself if he had the chance
[3/8/13 12:04:21 AM] blastyoboots: and that's how he'd eventually style them
[3/8/13 12:04:26 AM] TheFinalWraith: I guess
[3/8/13 12:05:58 AM] blastyoboots: also, something someone else mentioned in another chat...
[3/8/13 12:06:17 AM] blastyoboots: wait, that someone was me, I was just talking to 'em...
[3/8/13 12:07:28 AM] blastyoboots: 11:58:11 PM BlastYoBoots: oh I'm having a long conversation to try and reconcile all this rich information with what we've guessed
11:58:42 PM BlastYoBoots: the evidence for a third scratch is pretty strong, and I always assumed it'd result in another Calliope
11:58:56 PM Michael (Project:Ballad): But he wouldn't KNOW that
11:58:58 PM BlastYoBoots: but it may be just a young/different version of this other cherub
11:59:00 PM BlastYoBoots: she*
11:59:08 PM BlastYoBoots: yeah, they might have looked the same, fooling her
11:59:23 PM BlastYoBoots: there's a *slight* impression that she may have been misled into thinking she would play
11:59:33 PM BlastYoBoots: because she saw what looked like herself playing, in Skaia's clouds
11:59:36 PM BlastYoBoots: when it was really post-scratch
[3/8/13 12:08:34 AM] TheFinalWraith: So the other cherub might be the dancestor of Caliborn?
[3/8/13 12:08:45 AM] blastyoboots: yeah
[3/8/13 12:08:47 AM] blastyoboots: Calliope, you mean
[3/8/13 12:08:52 AM] TheFinalWraith: Yeah
[3/8/13 12:08:53 AM] blastyoboots: (both, really, it doesn't matter)
[3/8/13 12:08:57 AM] blastyoboots: (sorry)
[3/8/13 12:09:06 AM] blastyoboots: she's seen multiple things beyond the kids' session veil, for one
[3/8/13 12:09:21 AM] blastyoboots: like not just the point where Jane was at a low-point, but also:
[3/8/13 12:11:21 AM] blastyoboots: when calliope was depressed from having lost her dreamself...
[3/8/13 12:11:34 AM] blastyoboots: GG: I'm still trying to track down my father. I've been gathering clues, and I may be getting close.Â
GG: Do you by any chance know if I might see him soon?Â
GG: Hmm...Â
GG: Are you there?Â
UU: oh. yes.Â
UU: keep going where yoU're headed.Â
UU: things will work oUt in time. yoU'll see him.
[3/8/13 12:11:43 AM] blastyoboots: which rather conspicuously
[3/8/13 12:12:10 AM] blastyoboots: JANE: THIS GAME IS SO MUCH MORE DEPRESSING THAN I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE! EVERYTHING IS DEAD AND EMPTY AND FULL OF GRAVES AND ALL WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO IS JUST KEEP WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING! BUT FOR HOW MUCH LONGER? AND I /STILL/ DON'T KNOW WHERE MY DAD IS, AND YOU /STILL/ HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO REACH CALLIOPE, AND WHAT IF THEY'RE BOTH...
[3/8/13 12:12:18 AM] TheFinalWraith: True
[3/8/13 12:20:40 AM] blastyoboots: hm, breath and blood, escape versus staying behind...
[3/8/13 12:40:21 AM] blastyoboots: (I'm having a conversation with someone else that I'll paste here later) Â EDIT: Â DISCLAIMER: Â These are RANDOM MUSINGS that are NOT CERTAIN AT ALL, like when we talk about that DAVESPRITE STUFF it's STILL IN THE WORKS and I'm NOT SURE WHERE THAT'S GOING YET
[3/8/13 1:02:27 AM] blastyoboots: 12:08:07 AM BlastYoBoots: anyway... you're betting that Caliborn is actually courting someone else? Â as in, someone who's not a Calliope or alt!Calliope or alt!not!Calliope or what have you?
12:08:57 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): It is my supposition that LE does not know that a Calliope return will happen.
12:09:34 AM BlastYoBoots: well, if we assume a third scratch
12:09:45 AM BlastYoBoots: he *did* name his servant "Doc Scratch"
12:10:10 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): It is my belief that LE has tried filling his emptiness with non-cherub women for most of his existence
12:10:27 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Thus explaining his "pimp" nature
12:11:38 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): I think that Andrew's left hints that Caliborn might be interested in Jane (via hate) or Roxy (via "beauty" and also her role is to take emptiness away)
12:11:45 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): And Vriska was chosen for a destructive act
12:11:54 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): I'm saying any of them are possibly his romantic targets
12:12:54 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Caliborn as LE would inherently look for the character most LIKE Calliope to mate with, but not Calliope herself
12:13:05 AM BlastYoBoots: oh, hahahahaha!
12:13:12 AM BlastYoBoots: Roxy taking emptiness away, oh my god
12:13:17 AM BlastYoBoots: that sounds like more kiss evidence
12:13:45 AM BlastYoBoots: you know, that recent thing my followers led to on my blog where, uh
12:13:52 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Yeah I saw
12:14:05 AM BlastYoBoots: Roxy could actually accompany the Knight to D6 mission and kiss Caliborn to wake Calliope up temporarily one last time, etc
12:14:06 AM BlastYoBoots: yeah
12:14:26 AM BlastYoBoots: (had to say it so I could paste it into the longer discussion that I'm going to paste into a post that I'm going to- ad-infinitum)
12:15:09 AM BlastYoBoots: are you sure he isn't trying to lure out the other master-class cherub, though?
12:15:33 AM BlastYoBoots: as I was implying earlier, if you suppose the cherub session scratch, which there's still evidence for
12:16:13 AM BlastYoBoots: then Caliborn would have known from the start of his career as the universe-prowling Lord English that there'd be another cherub set, once he found out what Scratches do
12:16:28 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): No, I'm not sure. I just don't believe that even as a Lord of Time, LE knows the third scratch will happen. I feel that on a narrative level, that scratch has to be the one he DIDN'T plan
12:16:50 AM BlastYoBoots: well, I doubt he planned it at the time
12:16:59 AM BlastYoBoots: what I meant is after the fact
12:17:10 AM BlastYoBoots: when Caliborn has his session scratched, it's a complete surprise to him
12:17:20 AM BlastYoBoots: but afterwards, as Lord English, he'd know the implications of that having happened
12:18:07 AM BlastYoBoots: and thus, he could be trying to lure that alternate cherub out of her long hiding, with this elaborate dance of destruction across Paradox Space culminating in a Black Hole and a breach that threaten together to destroy it all
12:20:33 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): I think that conceptually, it feels out of order. Solving the Ultimate Riddle, I feel, has to involve learning how to break cycles, and so I believe that the third scratch will wipe LE out. If Calliope lives, she dominates Caliborn "peacefully" within herself as she matures. Caliborn doesn't get killed in time to save him from the third scratch. Calliope leads everyone "home" as it were
12:20:47 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Caliborn's fate is not to be wiped out, but to become a part of his sister
12:20:51 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): He ends up stuck
12:20:57 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): In his true home
12:21:15 AM BlastYoBoots: you can't retroactively wipe Lord English out?
12:22:02 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Based on the rules established, I don't think you could break the cycle. But the Calliope/Caliborn fight was about who was willing to break rules
12:22:08 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): And Calliope did, Caliborn didn't.
12:22:58 AM BlastYoBoots: the only way your assertion works is if Lord English is a version of Caliborn that escaped from a doomed timeline, which Dave doomed when he forced his session to scratch instead of completing
12:23:16 AM BlastYoBoots: a temporal offshoot created by Dave changing history
12:23:29 AM BlastYoBoots: and that doesn't make sense to me
12:23:37 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Uh
12:23:42 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): What?
12:23:56 AM BlastYoBoots: where did Lord English come from?
12:24:05 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): No I understand that
12:24:13 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): But you're still operating under "the rules"
12:24:30 AM BlastYoBoots: "the rules" are timeline-dooming, among other things
12:24:42 AM BlastYoBoots: that's Doom
12:25:03 AM BlastYoBoots: FAA: by the way if y0u didnt kn0w alreadyÂ
FAA: a future self returning t0 the past fr0m a d00med timeline will always be slated f0r imminent destructi0n herselfÂ
FAA: its 0ne 0f the rules
12:25:46 AM BlastYoBoots: the only way that you can have a Scratch wipe out Caliborn, without him escaping to become Lord English, is if a doomed version of him broke the rules of being doomed to escape to become Lord English
12:26:49 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Yeah, see, exactly. What I'm suggesting is that in the ending, the Lord English stuff that we saw didn't happen at all. A complete and total paradox of the old-fashioned kind
[3/8/13 1:02:35 AM] blastyoboots: 12:27:33 AM BlastYoBoots: I've heard that proposed, and I still disagree
12:27:54 AM BlastYoBoots: what of the escape to a new reality?
12:28:17 AM BlastYoBoots: if reality is safe and Lord English utterly eliminated retroactively, then why and how is that necessary?
12:28:44 AM BlastYoBoots: to escape a Paradox-Space-wide super-scratch that coincides with the destruction of everything? or?
12:29:16 AM BlastYoBoots: it's not unworkable, I admit
12:29:19 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): If LE never exists, the kids and trolls don't either. Either literally, or not as the selves that they are now
12:29:29 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): So they need to get out of, essentially, a collapsing house
12:29:39 AM BlastYoBoots: evidence points to them escaping
12:30:20 AM BlastYoBoots: what you're essentially saying is that the black hole and breach manage to successfully destroy ALL reality, or almost all of it, just as the Superscratch hits and wipes out the rest utterly
12:30:36 AM BlastYoBoots: so our heroes would need to have guided everyone, living and dead, out through the breach that they could
12:31:05 AM BlastYoBoots: and then once outside, the reset Paradox Space would be healable and reenter-able, and the members of the refugees have choices to return to the healed old reality or the new one
12:31:37 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): That's not exactly what I meant
12:31:37 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): But
12:31:39 AM BlastYoBoots: it is called the "Great Undoing", after all, and I theorized at one point before Cascade that the kids' scratch might be perverted to be broadened reality-wide
12:31:48 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): What you described is more or less what happened in Problem Sleuth
12:32:27 AM BlastYoBoots: oh, I knew the problem sleuth parallels with the reality exit already; the retroactive full reset Great Undoing addition doesn't really add anything more Problem Sleuthy to it
12:32:40 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Look at it this way
12:32:49 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): There were two "exits" in PS
12:32:57 AM BlastYoBoots: there were?
12:32:59 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): I feel you keep talking about the one at the climax
12:33:08 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): In and out of the afterlife, the sewing of the tear in space
12:33:12 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): I refer to the literal ending
12:33:17 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): The use of the megaton key
12:33:20 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): "The world is real"
12:33:32 AM BlastYoBoots: why can't they be united?
12:33:49 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Turn it around. Why must they?
12:34:10 AM BlastYoBoots: some reality lies beyond this one
12:34:20 AM BlastYoBoots: CG: I COULD HATE A HOLE IN PARADOX SPACE ITSELF, STRAIGHT THROUGH TO A NEW REALITY FRESH FOR THE HATING.
12:34:46 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): I'd argue that's what Caliborn is doing now
12:34:56 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Circle-cut, black hole, hate-love
12:34:59 AM BlastYoBoots: yeah I know :)
12:35:25 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): His circle-of-many angles is what the Sburb spirograph has always represented
12:35:35 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): But the Sburb cycle itself has to stop
12:35:37 AM BlastYoBoots: the "new reality" could be some sort of 'real world' where they'd return to normal lives, out of the story, their powers wouldn't matter, they all learned valuable life lessons for their normal everyday existence
12:35:46 AM BlastYoBoots: if you buy LilDurandal's take on it
12:35:57 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): My prediction for Act 7
12:36:09 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Is that it opens with a child turning 13 on their birthday
12:36:31 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): That child is the child of [We both know it's John and Roxy but sub in whomever]
12:36:33 AM BlastYoBoots: (personally, I don't subscribe to LilDurandal's option, because the kids already DID lead normal lives, and their potentials as adults, as their scratch-reset adult selves)
12:37:08 AM BlastYoBoots: yeah, that's a reasonable Act 7 assumption, though the birthday number might be different
12:37:21 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): We see the new reality, and the new lives for everyone, through their lives.
12:37:36 AM BlastYoBoots: honestly I'd rather not talk about that Act 7 stuff though, because it makes me feel like Homestuck's gonna end >_>
12:37:37 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): We MIGHT get one last walkaround during the act, where you can actively "say good-bye"
12:37:52 AM BlastYoBoots: (I know it is, I just don't like thinking about it)
12:37:58 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Good stories end
12:38:02 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Bad stories perpetuate forever
12:38:04 AM BlastYoBoots: I am fully aware of this
12:38:37 AM BlastYoBoots: look, can't I just hold a fistful of a kernel of irrationality where I don't like to think about Homestuck's inevitable end which I know is necessary to be a good story and I expect nothing less?
12:39:10 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): As long as you do so with awareness
12:39:20 AM BlastYoBoots: yes, and I'm trying to communicate that I do :)
12:39:22 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): I'm not looking forward to the "feels" faction's POV
12:39:24 AM BlastYoBoots: just because I can foresee the touching end doesn't mean I like looking in its direction, haha
12:39:25 AM BlastYoBoots: yeah
12:39:35 AM BlastYoBoots: er
12:40:10 AM BlastYoBoots: basically I am reserving my right to feels in a self-aware manner even though I'm maintaining my rationality here- okay I'm rambling
12:40:12 AM BlastYoBoots: where were we
12:40:27 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): I don't know.
12:40:40 AM BlastYoBoots: okay, so the reality they go to, unlike Lil'Durandal's option
12:40:48 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): At any given moment I can only think "how would I write the climax" and I'm not Andrew Hussie.
12:40:57 AM BlastYoBoots: I was betting would be a fresh instance of paradox space, another reality angel/cherub or some such
12:41:34 AM BlastYoBoots: from the metaphor we were just given, it seems closer to likely that alt!Calliope or alt!Whoever-Cherub could become the new reality
12:42:05 AM BlastYoBoots: and somehow allow them entry
12:42:31 AM BlastYoBoots: while they trap Lord English in the previous reality, possibly in a forever-loop or some other odd thing
12:43:02 AM BlastYoBoots: "You were meant to be a monster. To destroy something huge and really important, perhaps repeatedly, and to be a total shithead about it."
12:43:14 AM BlastYoBoots: where the 'something' isn't just universes, but all reality in a stable loop
12:43:32 AM BlastYoBoots: the forever-loop is really theoretical, though
12:44:18 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): I will say that Davesprite completing the loop by sending Earth back in time does damage my version of the theory a bit. Why complete the loop so close to the end?
12:44:30 AM BlastYoBoots: huh?
12:44:35 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Back in time for the cherub's session rather
12:44:43 AM BlastYoBoots: back in....
12:44:44 AM BlastYoBoots: huh?
[3/8/13 1:02:36 AM] blastyoboots: 12:45:02 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): From Caliborn's perspective, Earth arrived in his session a long time ago
12:45:04 AM BlastYoBoots: oh, so *that's* how you figure he'd move it?
12:45:06 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): That's all I meant
12:45:09 AM BlastYoBoots: oh
12:45:16 AM BlastYoBoots: does there have to be time travel involved, though?
12:45:20 AM BlastYoBoots: once it's moved?
12:45:22 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): I don't know.
12:45:54 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Although some part of Davesprite must still be time-aligned.
12:46:03 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): And otherwise I don't know how he'll do it
12:46:11 AM BlastYoBoots: time and space aren't as different etc etc
12:46:30 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Sure
12:47:04 AM BlastYoBoots: assuming moving is work done alone
12:47:31 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Well, yes, okay, but clearly he is the most significant player in that act
12:47:40 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): The hints make that clear
12:47:54 AM BlastYoBoots: well, hmm... maybe he could bring someone or something else in to help?
12:48:07 AM BlastYoBoots: oh HAH what if GCat chases him b/c bird
12:48:14 AM BlastYoBoots: we already had Jaspersprite chasing him
12:48:26 AM BlastYoBoots: let's see...
12:48:30 AM BlastYoBoots: TG: i still believe thoughÂ
TG: in my heart so long as it keeps thumping the righteous beatÂ
TG: subwoofing out devotion every which wayÂ
TG: that he will comeÂ
TG: our saviorÂ
TG: was foretold hed come after meteors show up to drop it like its hotÂ
TG: and hed gather up the ashes of our civilization and lift it like its heavyÂ
TG: fuck im tearing up my ishades are gonna fry
12:48:47 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): This story has too many Big Bad Wolves
12:48:56 AM BlastYoBoots: could there be anything in there that makes this theoretical "davesprite moves earth" thing, like
12:49:00 AM BlastYoBoots: makes it clearer
12:49:12 AM BlastYoBoots: like some sort of word like in the last line somewhere
12:49:13 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): We all talk about Jade as a Big Bad Wolf, but Bec Noir is still incoming
12:49:16 AM BlastYoBoots: that hints to 'how'
12:49:20 AM BlastYoBoots: yeahhh, but
12:49:24 AM BlastYoBoots: he's more asshole wolf
12:49:26 AM BlastYoBoots: at this point
12:49:35 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Also
12:49:37 AM BlastYoBoots: Jade's a little badder
12:49:46 AM BlastYoBoots: in terms ofÂ
12:49:47 AM BlastYoBoots: something
12:49:48 AM BlastYoBoots: I dunno
12:49:56 AM BlastYoBoots: awesomeness? Â (wow I'm tired)
12:50:10 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): I feel like part of the key to figuring shit out is figuring out what roles are left for the people who've been theorized about less.
12:50:21 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Does Spades Slick assassinate LE?
12:50:42 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): He's completed the rest of his mission (and then some, Mr. 1001 clocks)
12:50:53 AM BlastYoBoots: Spades Slick has traversed too far into a realm where plot importance is negligible
12:51:05 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): I disagree
12:51:07 AM BlastYoBoots: it's more likely that another instance of Jack Noir strikes the final blow to complete the callback
12:51:16 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Andrew saved him twice for a reason.
12:51:19 AM BlastYoBoots: yes!
12:51:32 AM BlastYoBoots: as a parallel for what's to come :p
12:51:44 AM BlastYoBoots: imo, of course
12:51:44 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Also
12:51:58 AM BlastYoBoots: ie. Vriska breaks everything and is still rescued to find love
12:52:04 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): I still expect that Clover is guarding Auryn when Vriska shows up to grab it
12:52:22 AM BlastYoBoots: ooh, a riddler around the thingy?
12:52:22 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Sorry, AURYN
12:52:25 AM BlastYoBoots: does that fit in with
12:52:27 AM BlastYoBoots: hahaha
12:52:28 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Capitalized for importance
12:52:31 AM BlastYoBoots: neverending story stuff?
12:52:35 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Strider-style
12:52:40 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Well, not just that
12:52:43 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): In the intermission
12:52:52 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Clover was found guarding the vault
12:53:07 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Inside which was... a trap, essentially.
12:53:13 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Also
12:53:34 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): Vriska vs. Clover is the sort of luck-based battle Andrew would tease us with and then deflate
12:54:51 AM BlastYoBoots: she's a luck thief
12:55:04 AM BlastYoBoots: the result seems a bit too clear cut
12:55:21 AM Michael (Project:Ballad): My lack of full understanding of how this will play out is soothed by knowing that I literally have readers doing the exact same thing with my own comic, with the same problems for them
12:55:21 AM BlastYoBoots: but yeah, Clover guarding the vault, hmmm
12:55:34 AM BlastYoBoots: hahaha
12:55:37 AM BlastYoBoots: revenge
[3/8/13 1:05:13 AM] blastyoboots: DISCLAIMER CONTINUED: everything in this entire chat was theoretical and made while dizzy with tired, and assertions that sound like I'm saying something is "true" are not so, I'm just assuming for the sake of seeing where that branch would lead, etc
[3/8/13 1:06:06 AM] blastyoboots: I'm not crazy about the idea of retroactively destroying Lord English's existence or some sort of superscratch Great Undoing, that seems extremely odd to me
[3/8/13 1:07:07 AM] blastyoboots: even though perhaps it does guarantee why Dave would have to lose his life and soul permanently, since you can't just kill yourself to escape out the breach from a weird theoretical superscratch... heck, maybe that's part of why "Doc Scratch" is named so
[3/8/13 1:08:24 AM] blastyoboots: because he has to escape reality to get over the superscratch destroying it or
[3/8/13 1:08:43 AM] blastyoboots: no that's slightly perhaps dumb, the new reality would be elsewhere, but he'd just be hopping back in-
[3/8/13 1:08:50 AM] blastyoboots: unless the same reality IS the new reality :O
[3/8/13 1:09:05 AM] blastyoboots: omg that's why the breach allows him to enter the other one, it's technically a breach in both-
[3/8/13 1:09:14 AM] blastyoboots: NO STOP IT BRAIN YOUR 1 AM THEORIES ARE STUPID
[3/8/13 1:09:19 AM] blastyoboots: okay okay
[3/8/13 1:09:21 AM] blastyoboots: whew
[3/8/13 1:09:44 AM] TheFinalWraith: ...Just your 1 AM theories?
[3/8/13 1:09:45 AM] blastyoboots: look there are a lot of possibilities and we're going to figure out which ones, but for now, the null hypothesis is "adapt on what we were already assuming"
[3/8/13 1:09:47 AM] blastyoboots: yeah
[3/8/13 1:09:51 AM] blastyoboots: yeah, just those
[3/8/13 1:09:57 AM] blastyoboots: the rest are like kobe beef
[3/8/13 1:10:04 AM] blastyoboots: I just used kobe beef in a sarcastic analogy
[3/8/13 1:10:19 AM] blastyoboots: I need to sleep and probably hit myself over the head with a heavy glass cup I have next to me
[3/8/13 1:10:41 AM] blastyoboots: I keep it precariously perched a half foot over my laptop and full of water
[3/8/13 1:10:47 AM] blastyoboots: because that's how I live
[3/8/13 1:11:19 AM] blastyoboots: dangerously- yeah it's actually over a foot away from my laptop too please stop and/or kill me why am I this tired and incoherent oh right sleep is a thing 'night
[3/8/13 1:11:21 AM] blastyoboots: just
[3/8/13 1:11:33 AM] blastyoboots: since I'm going to paste all this to my followers, as advice for them, just
[3/8/13 1:12:03 AM] blastyoboots: I'm not seriously changing everything until I'm sure we've proven things as more likely than our last null hypothesis
[3/8/13 1:12:06 AM] blastyoboots: on these fronts
[3/8/13 1:12:22 AM] blastyoboots: so when you see me hopping wildly here we're just testing the waters
[3/8/13 1:12:47 AM] blastyoboots: I'm not vomiting all these theories out and telling everyone to abandon ship and board new ones right away we just need to see what floats first
My twitter (linked above) is now public, and not locked down like it was earlier because I'm an idiot. :)
Also, Michael of Project: Ballad is my first follower! I linked his awesome Ozstuck writeup last night, go read it!
(And probably his comic, too, though I haven't checked it out myself just yet... if his writing is anything to go by in that post, his comic's likely quite good.)
I know this is kind of a weird thing to ask, but what do you think of the Project Ballad comic? Its run by the same guys that made the Wizard of Oz post.
I haven’t looked into it yet!  I might when I have time.  All I know is that they made another awesome post about Homestuck waaay earlier that I was a fan of, over here.
This one goes out to Kat Verhoeven, who asked me to get into it. Go read her comics!
There are a lot of references to things in Homestuck, and the fun thing about what an improvisational comic it’s been is that frequently, it doesn’t matter whether the references were intentional. It’s pretty common knowledge that creator Andrew Hussie had never seen Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann when Dave Strider’s Bro first appeared with his pointy anime shades, but by the time Bro’s alpha session counterpart Dirk is being kissed in front of an erupting volcano (such as it was), it didn’t really matter how much was intentional, either at the outset or even at its climax – the reference had served great metaphorical value to people familiar with the reference. Hussie clearly believes in “The death of the author” – he had it happen in the story itself.
That said, some metaphors are so elaborate that at least parts of it must be intentional. Take The Wizard of Oz, a familiar tale that is only referred to textually in the briefest and most offhand terms, but which is embedded deep into the subtext of much of the story, and helps clarify the role of a major character.
Read More
DFSJDHFK This post is AMAZING!!! Â I have to link to it because it's not on tumblr but... DAMN!
I thought I was being thorough and practical by cataloguing the references in my own Wizard of Oz Homestuck post, but this individual also takes it to a much better character analysis level and catches a bunch of connections I completely missed! As you can see quoted above, they even found a huge, obvious Gurren Lagann reference I missed to go with the one we found earlier: combining two scenes from Gurren Lagann, a kiss in front of a volcano and Kamina (Bro) and Simon (Page-like) uniting their robots - one of them just a head! - as a volcano explodes behind them!
God, the character analysis. So good, so... *faints*
Brb I'm going to add links to this to everything. CLICK THE MAIN LINK ABOVE and go read now, dammit!!! :D
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