Tales from '85 / little shop of horrors.
Who gets me
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Tales from '85 / little shop of horrors.
Who gets me

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Oklahoma vs Dark of the Moon
So as many of us are aware, within The First Shadow and ST5 both plays are mentioned.
Oklahoma being the associated with an unoriginal idea, and Dark of the Moon being something surprising and subversive.
Oklahoma was the play that was promised and advertised, but Dark of the Moon was what was performed.
Oklahoma has a happy ending to a love story and Dark of the Moon has a tragic end.
Ending of Oklahoma:
A drunken Jud reappears, kisses Laurey and punches Curly, and they begin a fistfight. Jud attacks Curly with a knife, and Curly dodges, causing Jud to fall on his own knife. Jud soon dies. The wedding guests hold a makeshift trial for Curly, at Aunt Eller's urging. The judge, Andrew Carnes, declares the verdict: "not guilty!" Curly and Laurey depart on their honeymoon in the surrey with the fringe on top ("Finale Ultimo").
Jud (the antagonist) died and Curly and Laurey got their happily ever after.
Ending of Dark of the Moon:
The witches appear before Barbara as she frantically looks for John. She ignores their taunting and runs off. John returns to the Conjur Man, looking for the Conjur Woman. Despite Conjur Man's protest, John finds her and asks to keep him human. The witches reappear, victorious. They tell him that Barbara is going to die. John runs off to find her. The two apologize to each other, and embrace fearfully as Barbara dies. The moon appears, turning John into a witch again.
Both plays feature a love story (Curly/Laurey and John/Barbara) with obstacles. Both involve the theme of fear vs love. Both plays have an antagonist who confesses their love to the woman (Jud and Marvin). Jud dies in Oklahoma and the townspeople view Curly in a favourable light. In Dark of the Moon, Marvin r*apes Barbara with the approval of the townspeople…
The huge difference in what caused a happy vs tragic ending within these plays seems to be the perception of the people around them. People seemed fairly supportive of Curly/Laurey but almost no one was on the side of John/Barbara. Everyone disapproved of the witch boy/human.
Like the ending of Dark of the Moon, The First Shadow also ended in a similar manner. Patty left, leaving Henry to believe she may have died and Henry returned to being a “witch boy” in a sense… giving into his darker side. Doomed love. Fear won.
Now, this also makes me think of ST5, but it’s less overt. Many people viewed the ending as Oklahoma but upon deeper inspection it was Dark of the Moon. We were tricked, and watched an awful ending. Perhaps this was to hold up a mirror to the audience and come face to face with their own bigotry.
Soooo obviously Netflix previews the OG series after you finish tf '85 (LMFAOOOO tf is right)...has anyone watched that preview lately orrrr
"Nothing is stranger than believing" right...
And the final episode being titled "countdown" when not a damn thing in the episode had to do with countdowns (at least not to me, and all the other episode titles seemed to go with the events of the episode soo)
Moral of the story is the more brain power we have analyzing this bs the easier it will be to put the pieces together 🤸♂️
ALSO. "We'll meet again" being the 'moving into credits but wait the story isn't over' scene backtrack....suspicious.
And someone correct me if I'm wrong here but did the Baxter house not look like the Creel house when the scene panned to the UD???
Season 4 is a Lie
I know season four not being completely real is something that's been mentioned before, but I wanted to share my thoughts and maybe add to the conversation!
After I made a post about some Max Mayfield merch, some people shared more merch with inaccurate descriptions, which prompted me to do some more digging; there is so much more than I thought! Anyway, this feels like the birth of a new tag: #merchgate (I'm gonna go back and add it to that post!)
On that note, I was looking at merch to see if I could find anything interesting, and I found some referencing California. At first glance, it isn't a big deal, but I noticed the merch portrays Demogorgons and heavily implies that “California” is actually the Upside Down. Which got me thinking: “If California isn't real, then how much of season four is real?”
Of course Mike wouldn't be able to go near Will after volume 1 because even the touch from Mike's hand could snap him out of the mindflayer's possession.
He tried to run to him here. He was the first to get to him but he still was the furthest away when he sat next to him. You can see his hand going towards Will's arm, but he immediately brings it away. It's as if he wanted to put his hand there but something stopped him.
He was so worried for Will. He even chose to stay with him while the other characters were doing other things related to the plan. He seemed like he was about to go over to him, or to say something. He couldn't though, for some reason. All he could do was stare as Will was laying there on the couch.
He saw Will left behind. He was being attentive to him like always. He was caring about him and once again worried for him. He turned around as if he would stay with him, but didn't. He reached his hand out to touch his arm, but it didn't actually reach him.
He never even touched him at all in volume 2, which is strange, especially for Mike who'd always show some sort of affection towards Will in that way, especially when worried. He kept trying to, but never actually did.
Like in season 2, Will is literally in a Vecna trance and somehow Mike's hand on his shoulder alone can break him out of it.
Even Mike's words can get him out of the mindflayer's possession. All he has to do is say something heartfelt to Will and the mindflayer no longer has the control.
The second Mike leaves Will's side and stops caring about him is when the mindflayer gets to him. If Mike talked to Will or came close enough to him or even showed any signs of having love for him, the mindflayer would have no power over Will.
Mike had attempted multiple times to be close to Will and take care of him after volume 1, but each time, he failed. The mindflayer wouldn't let him get that close, because it would ruin Vecna's plan. (This also makes sense with what happens in The First Shadow, where Henry couldn't touch Patty at all because it would take away the control from the mindflayer).
Potentially though, Mike actually did have moments with Will, but they were erased from his mind immediately after so that the mindflayer can stay in control (if you want to know more about my theory on that). If Will figures this out, he could break the possession.
Another thing to add is that it was mainly after November 6th that Mike couldn't touch him anymore. On November 5th, he tried a little harder, with "come back to us Will" which I always found weird how that line was delivered, as if he was being stopped from doing more. It felt almost like it was his inner monologue talking.
After November 6th, it seemed like he kind of stopped trying. He had no power to be able to go near Will anymore. This goes along with playgate where Vecna is controlling everyone like puppets.
I think Will got possessed after finding his powers in episode 4. I think he was kinda possessed for like basically the whole season actually, but after gaining powers, the mindflayer took full control over him. Vecna then started erasing his memories, and having Will spy for him without a choice. Now he's controlling everyone and making sure that Will doesn't get the love he wants from other people so that the possession never breaks.

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I just watched The First Shadow and it was incredible !! & I have some things to say about it related to conformitygate, lovewinsgate, and playgate:
It mentions something really important that happened to Henry when he was 11 years old. It was the day that he was taken over by the mindflayer. Whenever it was talked about, the fact that he was 11 is always brought up. This is interesting because when Joyce talks to Will about the day he went missing in season 5 (the day everything started for him), she says her "11 year old" son, when really he was 12. When Henry was 11 was the day that everything started for him. This goes into the theory that Henry had been corrupting the character's minds for a while now, and mixing their memories of Will with Henry's. (Another thing to add is that this goes into my theory that Joyce was taken over by Vecna in the shed scene in season 2 as well, making her think that March 22 was Will's birthday when really it wasn't, because Henry sees himself in Will.)
Towards the end of the play, it shows Bob (I think that's who it was) talking on the radio in Melvald's on Christmas. He says this whole thing on the broadcast about how "you're not a mistake" and stuff like that, which reminds me of Will feeling like a mistake and thinking that Mike makes him feel the opposite of that. In season 5, he started to think that Mike doesn't actually love him the way he thought, probably because the mindflayer got into his head. Once the mindflayer seemingly took over Will, his memories must've mixed with Henry's memories. He had to search in his mind to find something that proves to him that he's not a mistake. He must've thought back to the broadcast at Melvald's where Bob said that whole speech about loving who you are. That could be why he mentioned Melvald's in his coming out scene. The fact that it was Christmas too is also a huge hint.
The very last scene of the play is a demogorgon jumping out at the audience. It was a huge jumpscare which scared the whole crowd. The demogorgon, it got us.
There were also many times where the characters were talking in a scary scene and you could very clearly see their shadows behind them which were very big. It almost looked like it was supposed to be the mindflayer watching over them. For some reason though, it often looked like the shadows were talking to the audience. A lot of the time, the shadows were pointed towards the crowd instead of just behind the characters, indicating that it's talking to us too.
When it showed the mindflayer coming out from above, it went right over the audience. Not over the setting on the stage, but over the audience. Whenever there were suff related to the upsidedown, the people in hazmat suits came down from the other side into the audience, looking around at us. The upsidedown particles went towards the audience as well. It seemed like we were supposed to be in the upsidedown, especially since we're on the other side of where the characters are so that would make a lot of sense. It seemed like we were a part of it all too.
Henry was trying to help Patty to find her dream, without it turning into a nightmare. He didn't want the mindflayer to take over him, so he asked Patty to hold his hand. Her hand helped stop the mindflayer from taking full possession of him. This is just like Will with Mike in season 2. Mike took Will's hand to shield him from the mindflayer, and that was the one part of him that wasn't possessed in the end of the season.
Every time Henry tried to touch Patty, the mindflayer would start trying to do something to him. It didn't want him to touch her at all. This was probably because the mindflayer knew that if Henry touched Patty, it would stop it from taking full control over him. This goes into my theory that Mike couldn't touch Will for the entirety of season 5 volume 2 because the mindflayer wouldn't let him. If he did touch Will, it would stop the mindflayer from controlling him.
Now, I have a lot of things to say about the play that they were performing inside the play:
They were originally going to do Oklahoma, and they advertised it as Oklahoma. Joyce thought that would be too boring, so she decided to put on a different secret play instead. One that was much more interesting, dark, scary, and the main question of the play was "can love defeat fear?".
Patty and Henry were casted as the two love interests. They had to kiss and they were slightly embarrassed to. When practicing, Patty said she wanted to sing a gay (happy) song. She loves the gay ones. Everyone agreed to make it a gay one, and for them to kiss in this secret play. (Btw Henry and Patty heavily parallel byler, where one is taken over by the mindflayer, and the other is the only one who understands them and makes them feel like they're not a mistake, and their similarities to byler are actually canon).
When the play came, they started doing the secret better more scary and angsty play, but they had to stop doing it midway through. Henry never made it there, so they had to change the play back to Oklahoma, a play that definitely isn't as scary or as original of an idea. In this "boring" play, the two people in love don't get to kiss, and you never get to figure out if love can defeat fear. Especially since it's too late now, the mindflayer already took over Henry.
Patty couldn't have Henry as her love interest anymore because of the mindflayer taking over him, so she had to have a different love interest in the changed play. She had to have Bob as her love interest. Bob is her brother, and she was very uncomfortable with it. Instead of the person she's actually in love with, she had to pretend to be in love with someone who she obviously thinks of as a sibling (this reminds me of mileven). The real play is where love could've defeated fear, and where the two people who are actually in love would get to have a confession and kiss, but they never got to do that. They couldn't because the mindflayer had already gotten her love interest, so they couldn't perform the better play. They had to do something more light hearted and one that everyone expected of them, which no one cared that much about, switching it midway through.
This is just like season 5. It started out as something good and scary and interesting, but it felt like it became different midway through, as if it was a completely different play. Even when it first becomes November 6th in season 5, it shows the sunrise, just like how in Oklahoma it starts with "oh what a beautiful morning". It was changed midway through to a different play because the mindflayer had already won. Volumes 2 and 3 were Oklahoma instead of the better more original play. It was changed to something less scary and suspenseful because the mindflayer had gotten everyone, stopping them from even having the chance to go into danger. They're stuck in the basic play controlled by the mindflayer. And just like the demogorgon jumping out at us at the end of the play, the mindflayer is now coming for audience as well. The end of The First Shadow was a warning.
On the way back from Rink-O-Mania
When Jonathan and Argyle are high and making jokes about blips, doing it along to the stoner music
They end up making a stereotypical clown/circus type melody.
Which of course contrasts with the seriousness of the events and with the tone of the sober ones in the car, so it’s a funny moment.
But also.
That’s still March 22.
Will’s Birthday (?)
And clowns ?
And ALSO when they get home, Murray is playing opera music.
Something something this is all a performance
Something something playgate ?
Metallica's song, Enter Sandman, has conformitygate/playgate/etc vibes in it. Eddie ofc loves Metallica, and Master of Puppets has a really dark theme/association with Vecna and the Mindflayer already anyways
Enter Sandman can be contrasted with Mister Sandman. Both are about a sandman, but mister sandman is about dreams while enter sandman is about nightmares/anxiety. In the context of conformitygate, even, it can be read as a song about religious trauma/religious guilt due to expectations of conformity/being forced to be someone you're not.
Say your prayers, little one
Don't forget, my son
To include everyone
I tuck you in, warm within
Keep you free from sin
Till the Sandman he comes
Sleep with one eye open
Gripping your pillow tight
Exit light
*exit light? oh GOD. THE EXIT SIGNS
Enter night
Take my hand
We're off to Never—Neverland
Peter Pan--Peter Ballard--Henry Creel--Camazotz
Something's wrong, shut the light
Heavy thoughts tonight
And they aren't of Snow White
*snowwhitegate anyone? 🤌 but Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is a dark movie/fairytale, the ironyyy
Dreams of war, dreams of liars
*friends don't lie!
Dreams of dragon's fire
Dragons in fairytales, Camelot, middle-earth (smaug)
And of things that will bite
Sleep with one eye open
Gripping your pillow tight
Exit light
Enter night
Take my hand
We're off to Never—Neverland
Now I lay me down to sleep
Pray the Lord my soul to keep
If I die before I wake
Pray the Lord my soul to take
*Common prayer used in a different context
Hush little baby, don't say a word
And never mind that noise you heard
It's just the beasts under your bed
In your closet, in your head
(!!!)
Exit light
Enter night
Grain of sand
Exit light
Enter night
Take my hand
We're off to Never—Neverland