#massive speculation

Honestly, I’m just kinda fascinated by the possibilities of Benny as a character? If you study FNV like it’s an imprint fossil, I think it’s obvious that he was at least supposed to come back if you spared him, companion or not; there’s just too many loose ends that would come back to you eventually if he lived (especially if you choose the independent route), and Obsidian probably just had to cut them out because of time. It’s just really bizarre that he’s never really mentioned again once you go to the Fort, whether he lives or not, surely having one of the Strip Families lose it’s leader must have been at least somewhat significant? In fact, I don’t even think the families have ending slides (or so I’ve been told)? But that’s probably a separate post entirely.

So what happens after you set him loose? Does he plot his revenge? Do other factions attempt to assassinate him if you perhaps let someone know he’s alive? Does he just roam the wastes? I really don’t think the Chairmen would accept him back after what he did based on Swank’s reaction if you tell him, and I don’t think there could possibly be a way you could play the game where they didn’t eventually find out. I know there’s the cut content of him trying to kill you later if you rescue him, but to me, that kinda just feels too cheap and easy (at least the way it’s written, it’s way too blunt and it railroads your character into killing him). It honestly just feels like someone at Obsidian knew that his exit felt unfinished, tried to fix it, but ultimately made the (correct) assumption that it didn’t serve the character or the story so they cut it at the last minute. Given the ample opportunities to kill him the game gives you, I think it would be particularly bad if you weren’t somehow rewarded for consistently choosing to spare him/talk him down, even if that reward was just letting him live because that’s what you decided. Basically what I’m getting at here is that Benny would have made a great companion, as he was originally intended to be-- the Fawkes of NV; a late game companion relevant to the main quest line. Just imagine the possibilities for his personal quest! Since the Chairman really don’t have a “casino quest” like the other families do (I don’t think the Aces Theater/Main Plotline count) you really don’t get a deeper understanding of their identity as a faction, especially if you don’t have good enough Legion rep for Caesar to speak to you, and thus can’t talk to Benny about them. But you could have gotten that info through his quest later! Perhaps he’d ask you for help in getting them to accept him as their leader again, and in the process you could convince him to be a better or worse person in achieving this (or even to abandon the Strip and start a new life on his own, free of the threat of repercussion from both House and his Family), depending on your choices. Even though Benny is kind of a greedy bastard with a cowardly streak, having him motivated only by that is kinda boring-- it would be neat if he even eventually trusted the Courier enough to ask if killing Bingo and agreeing to Mr. House’s promise of safety/food/stability was the right thing to do for the Chairmen, even if a lot of them didn’t want that. Also who’s to say that the knife fight was somehow rigged, making Benny’s first act to bring the Boot Riders to Sin City a cardinal sin to them? He makes it sound so ominous..... Since he has so little to lose now that he’s already gone bust as far as the Strip is concerned, maybe he’s willing to reevaluate his mentality. There’s a ton you could do with him, and I think you’d still be keeping a fair amount of player agency -- either kill him to get sweet revenge and shorten the time it takes to get the chip, or receive a reward for choosing to be the “bigger man” and forgiving him. Or maybe just play the long con so you can say to his face that he’s a shitty person, I’m not a cop! 

So, you probably all know that I am still endgame positive until proved otherwise... now that Dabb has actually used the words “it’s by far the most meta finale we’ve ever done” I'm even more convinced that he is taking us for a ride.

Well, I hope he is anyway.

this post by @margarittet goes into detail about Eileen and why it doesn't make sense. I agree and have further points to make.

A quick summary of this and my thoughts:

1. Eileen’s last known location was somewhere around the Alaska/Icelandic longitudes ... nowhere near wherever they are in the USA where Sam and Dean go to the morgue?

2. A shifter is conveniently introduced right before hand and not killed on screen. In s1 we know that a shifter after death still looks like the person it shifted into, enough that at the morgue it was identified as Dean, just saying.

3. The voiceless, characterless death. There is no proof that this is Eileen apart from appearance.

4. The letter. Could be written by anyone. It’s not a voicemail, it’s not a video message. It also didn't even really sound like something badass Eileen would say.

5. The fact that it makes no sense for Sam’s endgame arc, that has been building for years, if she’s gone now. It literally rips this to shreds, not just as his romantic partner but for his outlook due to her importance as a friend and ally.

6. The fact that getting her back and doing something about his feelings makes far more sense for the Destiel parallel too with their story this season, after Saileen and Destiel were already hugely paralleled. THIS is the story that narratively makes sense to happen moving forwards with all the mirrors etc. NOT a loss and a reversal to previous melancholy, codependency and misery.

7. The fact that Dabb loves misdirection and surprises and I wouldn’t put it past them to make us hate them over this purposefully in order to then subvert it because they think this is a more impactful way of making us see that they are going in this ‘new, better way’, to make us believe they AREN’T then go full 180 on our asses. It hits us harder.

8. Bucklemming already did this with the Crowley / Lucifer scenario only a few episodes ago, where it keeps going back and forth, between one being on top, then the other, the way at first we all screamed NO, its OOC that Crowley would tie Lucifer up just in chains, that is stupid writing.... only to be subverted one episode later, shown that that wasn't the case at all... it was MISDIRECTION.

I am not 100% sure of this, of course, but this all does just add up for me, to what I DEARLY HOPE is a big subversion on their part, during this META FINALE.

If not then I really need an explanation as to why this happened and I need proof that this death is not representative of the way the show is headed but was a giant MISTAKE that although terrible and just a PR disaster is not representative of the way they are taking endgame.

And while we are on that note, even USING THE WORD META means that Dabb is addressing the SUBTEXT, saying that the SUBTEXT EXISTS, that the SUBTEXTUAL META READING EXISTS, therefore is VALID.

And what has been the BIGGEST SUBTEXTUAL META THIS SEASON? THAT HAS BEEN BUILDING FOR YEARS? THAT HAS BECOME EXTREMELY OBVIOUS THIS SEASON? TO THE POINT THAT CASUAL VIEWERS NOW EVEN NOTICE IT?

I meant for this post to be about Eileen and Dabb and endgame positivity but it all just ends up at Destiel on this blog.

Hi! I posted this yesterday about my view of what I would do if I was continuing the narrative and where I personally see it is most likely to lead but honestly I kind of expect a turnaround and surprises, Dabb loves surprises :)

If it were me, I see it continuing along this break up line - that Cas and Dean will be separated due to cosmic consequences and we will get a season 7 ‘I’m you but stronger’ theme.

If it is cosmic consequences it just fits so nicely for me because again, this is all about Dean and Cas (because really, Dean started the deal and was never going to let Sam do the sacrificing and Mary was just a decoy) and it is Cas who broke it. 

I’m also loving @k-vichan‘s potential speculation that this time it ends up being the other way around, that it might be Dean who sacrifices himself for Cas this time… because he is all about actions, not words and boy is it leading to something here this season, also all the “Dean Winchester is going to die” foreshadowing, all the mirrors for this… I just kinda like this idea even though it hurts like hell…

I don’t know if they will drag Destiel out til endgame or even when endgame is, I’m assuming end of season 14 so based on this I am currently imagining that if it was ME writing it I would write:

s12 finale: relatively unambiguous but still not 100% obvious Destiel, then separation. Lucifer kills Kelly, extra hatred. Dean or Cas gets left to ‘raise’ the nephilim over the summer (with Sam? or is he separated from them too? Bmol?). 

s13 mid season finale: They get Cas back OR if it’s Dean who is taken then he’ll be back earlier, by episode 3 probably. Here to season finale Cas is with them but not all the time, he has something going on (probably linked to the nephilim, heaven, Lucifer arc) but every time he is with Dean it is made more and more obvious that this is romantic, basically season 12 but even stronger.

s13 season finale: the nephilim helps bring down Lucifer because it chose Cas, the good mirror of Lucifer, who loves Humanity, it was also literally brought up by Dean Righteous Man Humanity Winchester and Sam I wont follow Lucifers plans for me Winchester.

s14: A hunter/mol arc, setting up endgame as them being the leaders of the new community, the nephilim being the bringer of balance. Cas is away with the nephilim for quite a bit, also Cas = Jesus: he will also be the Angels’ guide to becoming good towards Humanity again where many of them have lost their way, with the final Jesus type sacrifice being his choice to become Human. Again, where they are together it is super romantic Destiel heavy but there isn’t all that much of it.

s14 midseason finale: Human!Cas and canon Destiel.

s14 midseason to finale: tying up the mol leadership arc, canon Destiel in the background, not made a huge deal of but it is there and consistent, Saileen, nephilim bringing balance to the universe arc… 

2. So according to your chart, did we get our break up moment yet?

I’m going to answer these two together, and urfg I wish I had the patience to wait til I got home and do it justice but I really want to answer now so… here goes.

I was just thinking and noting down on another post about how I do believe it will be a “happy ending” or as much as it can be in SPN by series end, but that means there will probably be heartache and pain between now and then, because that’s how stories work.

I believe most likely by entire series end we will have TFW heading up a mol/hunter teacher training group, using mol tech and knowledge and hunter morality, probably free will factoring in MASSIVELY in that finale, Destiel, Saileen and the end of bro - codependency in a healthy positive way, whilst still being generally together, just less “on top of each other” and unhealthy.

Regarding Destiel this kind of then has to factor in backwards from the series finale if it is going to be endgame, which I believe it will be (well, I was like 95% sure, with 5% leeway for production reasons stomping on it, now a part of me is actually wondering if it’s 5% stomping still, but actually another 15% maybe Dabb changing SPN into this “better way” script between now and endgame and maybe even getting it earlier…. who knows at this point, it’ll be so much clearer in 12x22/23 where Dabb is leading us and what his aims are!).

I was headcanoning before 12x19 that we would get a CHOSEN separation in 12x19 i.e. It would be down to their own decisions, they’d probably have a big argument, then a true realisation and textualisation of feelings for Dean between 20-21, a ‘reconciliation’ ie they’re brought back together again by plot points in the finale and a FORCED separation in the finale, probably with one or the other making a relatively unambiguous show of their feelings.

Therefore this whole part of the story is the break up.

This is because I was thinking old school SPN - that they ‘just can’t have nice things’, that Destiel is so obvious now they cannot be in the same room as each other without a chaperone for more than 30 seconds without it being SUPER romantic (and boy did 12x19 prove that right!) and that the goal wasn’t to have Destiel before endgame so therefore they HAD to be separated.

Then as you know the part after this is the “winning him back” phase which makes a lot of sense too because Dean DIDNT reciprocate Cas’s “I love you”, he has been upset of course but basically towards Cas has been quite cold since 12x12 (see the 12x15 phone conversations) - until 12x19 of course but he is STILL hiding behind Sam in all his “we’s”, STILL hiding behind Cas is FAMILY and family - zoning him etc etc so he HAS to work on himself and have his realisation lightbulb moment (even if so far it seems he is currently having something of a sort, it’s still not strong enough given his words to Cas) and then work to win him back.

So really Dean NEEDS this realisation arc, aided massively by Mary I believe as the extension of Amara, who I meta’d about loads being the exposition of Dean’s feelings for Cas in season 11, bleeding into season 12 and boy do we see Dean’s facade coming down this season, it’s GLORIOUS, and Mary is a huge part of that.

So seeing that leaked confrontation between Dean and Mary? And the fact the episode is called “who we are” - and I think Mary will also be honest here about herself, I feel like this is exactly what we ARE going to get between 12x20-22….

This whole season has been showing Dean’s facade coming down and lo and behold his feelings for Cas seem much more obvious too, funny that!

At the same time the more we advance with season 12 the more I see this other side from Dabb, the “better way”, happier ending etc so I’m also open to this idea that perhaps this season finale won’t end in separation but a kind of “happy” interim ending with other aspects being the problem for next year.

BUT with all of what’s happened already validating my theory so perfectly I’m very interested to see what happens now in these interim episodes before the finale… as I’m more than open too to have been massively misdirected as Dabb does love a bit of that ;) overall whole series arc though, I mean, it seems clear to me that this is where it’s headed.

Short term though it SEEMS to be setting up for a separation at season end with season 13 set up similar to early season 7 and 9 (which would make sense with the current season 6 and 8 parallels) with Cas separated from them and Dean in a total mess, more obviously romantic and finally a brainwashing / crypt scene rehash but stronger and much more Destiel heavy. Or could this all be crammed in to the season 12 finale? Then they’d end this season together….Maybe…. that’s the “happier” option and only would work if Dabb is going to really go to town on this “better way” and totally new version of SPN moving forwards between now and series end.

I’m still tentatively confident in my first reading though. But hey idk I literally just love stories and love this show and make up theories, I’m not privy to any inside information!

But as to whether this is all just misdirection or if it may bleed into season 13 is interesting… there are just so many options because there are so many different storylines all converging and we don’t know Dabb’s short term goals even if I’m relatively sure of the long term ones.

Also, if this does happen the break up thing is going to be this whole arc from 12x12 - whenever the crypt scene / whatever happens in season 13 to get Cas back. The break up doesn’t mean just an argument or whatever, it’s the whole part of the story where they are separated and realise their feelings and have to work to get back together…so it can be very long especially in SPN where plot points that last 10 minutes in a movie can be dragged out over whole seasons!

Dabb loves mirrors and subversions and there have been so many misdirections I am not certain of anything short term.

OK DISCLAIMER: this is just my opinion and I know nothing more than anyone else OK and I’m more than happy to be proved wrong or have lots and lots of opinions on this, please do, its just fun and I wanted to write down my thoughts as I flailed about this a lot today, lets be honest :)

Foreshadowing points through the season and Speculation under the cut.

Hi!

Thank you so much 😍 I needed this lovely message after yesterday’s hate mail!

I literally just posted about it here actually: https://tinkdw.tumblr.com/post/160368928177/jensen-says-theres-something-coming-up-on

To be honest I rarely really take what the actors say as anything really that ground breakingly important but hey who knows… they have let slip a few things before.

I’m definitely intrigued by the purgatory thing as I think it’s important to see how Sam would react differently and the Dean/Cas dynamic has also evolved so much… and I keep going back to Misha’s comment about something being twisty and shouty this season, with everything that is happening between them and Dean’s self acceptance / honesty arc I keep remembering (SPOILER) how Dean pushes Cas away for what he thinks is his own good in the fic but it ends up literally “killing” him and Dean’s honesty comes too late…which is kinda my headcanon for the "short term negative but ultimately endgame positive option 1 of this season end".

I’m very intrigued by his comment about finally using the grenade launcher given that we all associate it with bi!Dean / Destiel in conjunction with this and the fact that both Jared and Jensen say 22 is going to be BIG and that’s the episode I’m expecting to see Performing!Dean crumble….