Callum Turner: I play Theseus, who is Newt's older brother, even though I'm younger than Eddie, which is interesting! He's kind of the opposite of Newt. He's gone through the same schooling obviously, but once he got out he decided that the establishment was the way to fight the good fight. Theseus is or may be quite more rigid or just part of the establishment. You know, he's the head Auror at the Ministry.
Yeah, I mean, he's the opposite to Newt. I guess he's more rigid, and he's conformed to the way that people want you to … he's become one of them I guess, and he went to Hogwarts. He was taught by Dumbledore. He’s from that school, and he became this, which you can take...
What are Theseus’s thoughts about the creatures? What are his relationships with them?
Callum Turner: Yeah, I think he has bigger fish to fry and it’s his little brother’s thing. That’s his sort of looking down on his brother.
Callum Turner: He'd been educated at Hogwarts underneath Dumbledore the same way Newt had, but for some reason he'd separated and it always felt unnatural that Theseus had become part of the establishment when his natural instinct would probably not to be that, but like Newt, you know, they are brothers. There's a similarity. But he's somehow like closed that bit off and he's gone that way and he's gone really high up into the Ministry of Magic and pretty much runs it and that's how he decides to fight the good fight. As Newt is part of the rebellion so I look at it, and Theseus is part of the establishment, and that's the kind of main difference between two brothers. Apart from that, very similar.
Eddie Redmayne: I'll never forget. I don't know if you ever saw it. I saw an early version of the script in which the young guys were...
Callum Turner: The flashback.
Eddie Redmayne: Yeah, flashback when they were at Hogwarts together. He [Theseus] came like flying past the window on a Quidditch team, on his broomstick. He was clearly like a schoolboy sporting hero.
Callum Turner: Like a jock.
Eddie Redmayne: Definitely. The antithesis of Newt.
Eddie Redmayne: Thank you. He's kind of the opposite of Newt. He is like the schoolboy hero. He was great. I'm sure he's like a brilliant Quidditch player, so they have a bit of tension and animosity, and yet they also have great love for each other, and that's kind of what you see through the film, is they start kind of not on the same side, but they progress through, and that thing that family does, like however much your brother irritates you, there's still some－I have three brothers who I love dearly. They never irritate me－They feel great sort of affection for.
Eddie Redmayne: But also she [ J.K. Rowling] watches and she even says the way Callum’s character, Theseus, was written in the script was quite like, he was quite a bit mean to Newt, but the way Callum played him made him so human in trying to do the right thing and ‘I’ve got my own struggles’ and when Jo saw that and said to me that … when she then sees that footage she then responds to that in how she writes the characters going forward so it is kind of a lovely dance in some way.
Eddie Redmayne: It is really complicated. [Theseus] is an Auror, he’s very establishment, and Newt is kind of the antithesis of that. But what I loved, actually, was the way Jo had written their relationship. It was quite antagonistic to begin with, and it certainly is filled with complexities. I mean, his brother is engaged to this girl who he had a huge affection for growing up, so there’s obviously a real tension there. But one of the things I loved is, actually, Jo said to me seeing what Callum [Turner] was doing and how David was directing – there was a lot of love there – that she progressed the relationship as a consequence of that.
Callum Turner: Theseus is the polar opposite of Newt. In a sense they're both fighting the good fight, but Newt is part of the rebellion movement and Theseus is the establishment.
Callum Turner: The focus was very much about the brother relationship. I don't have a younger brother. I have a younger half-brother, but we didn't grow up with each other and I got these stories and it's very much the older brother shouts at the younger brother a lot and so bullies him in a certain way because there's a responsibility. It's all about two people just playing at the same patterns they had for years.
Callum Turner: Theseus is head Auror at the British Ministry Of Magic - it's a tongue-twister! - and is really straight-laced. And Newt's not. He's the complete opposite, and he actually wants him to get in line and try to save the world. Because he knows he's special, but he won't do that. And that's the tension. That's what's going on between the two brothers. A brother trying to boss his other brother around, basically!
Callum Turner: He's an establishment man. He's worked really hard and rose to the top incredibly quickly. His brother won't conform. Newt sort of sits on the fence, and Theseus is a man of action.
- Entertainment Weekly: The Ultimate Guide to Fantastic Beasts
Callum Turner: He [Theseus] decided to fight the good fight by joining the Ministry, whereas Newt is part of the rebellion. They're both on the same side, but fighting in very different ways. Other than that key detail, the brothers clearly care for one another. While Theseus may be a bit more self-assured and confident than Newt, they share a deep sense of humanity.
- The Archive of Magic: The Film Wizardry of Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald
Callum Turner: What was important was not to focus on that friction but to try and understand maybe why. You look at the facts: [Theseus] is very successful through the establishment, and wants Newt to join and fight the good fight in the way that he knows how and the way that he thinks best. Newt doesn’t want to do that.
Callum Turner: He is on the promise to fight the good fight in the ways he knows how, which means that he has to conform to the rules and the regulations of which the wizarding society is deemed acceptable within the establishment. He doesn't think that Newt's doing the right thing. Spiritually, I think probably Newt is the one that has figured it out. Yeah. He's doing what he wants.
Callum Turner: He’s risen to the top of the ranks at the Ministry, he’s the Head Auror, and is fighting the good fight in the way he knows how. He’s incredibly stubborn and wants his brother, who he understands to be a more powerful, special wizard, to join the fight on his side, through the establishment, which obviously Newt is repelled by and I think that's the journey he goes on. Maybe he's making mistakes or had made mistakes.
Turner wracked his brain trying to figure out why Theseus would be so desperate to get everyone close to him to join the Ministry, and found a simple answer: Protection. “[Theseus] wants to protect his brother, he wants him alongside him, he wants to [know] that his brother will be OK.”
Callum Turner: I think Theseus and Newt are complete opposites. He's worried about his brother and he wants his brother to basically do what he wants and to fight the good fight in the way that he know how, which is through the establishment. He does it through love. It's like an overbearing thing and that's obviously the worst thing possible for Newt.
- Crimes of Grindelwald UK Premiere
What does your character think of Newt’s newfound success? Does he resent him at all for it?
Callum Turner: I think there’s a sort of a relief. Theseus is really successful. He’s a very determined man to reach the top, and I think having his younger brother sort of float around in this obscurity, in a sense, was quite worrying for him.
Callum Turner: And with Newt, the thing that drives Theseus actually is love. It’s very important to him, the brotherly thing. It’s not that he’s the older brother and, ‘You’re going to do what I say.’ There is that element to it, too, but I think the friction really is in Theseus suffocating Newt. Theseus is overprotective of Newt and doesn’t allow him space. But really that comes out of love.
Callum Turner: As brothers separate at times, this is the moment that they have. We refind them. He's risen to the top of the Ministry of Magic and he's quite successful, quite stubborn, but this is a man that loves and this is a man that cares deeply about humanity in the wizarding world and his fiancee and also his brother, and I think that's where the stress comes between the two is that he wants to protect Newt and he wants to look after Newt, but Newt doesn't need it, but Theseus can't see that. And that's the dynamic. That's why older brother telling younger brother what to do, younger brother saying, "See you later."
Callum Turner: I didn't grow up with a younger brother -- I have a half-brother but we didn't grow up with each other -- and my research was to understand what that's like, and to get into why Newt doesn't like him and why they don't connect. The communication has gone bad. Theseus is very head-in-the-sand in a sense. He's blind to what Newt needs, and, objectively, there's a selfishness to that and an arrogance to that and a brute force-ness to that. But subjectively, it's about protection and it's about love and it's about caring. Theseus is a carer. He's described as a hugger, and I think he's trying to hug the whole world. Newt, in particular. When you aren't able to give what someone needs, to facilitate what they need, you then either push them away -- which he does -- or suffocate. I think the friction between them is Theseus doesn't understand what Newt wants, and he is overbearing. It's almost like he's got him in a big, old bear hug and Newt doesn't want that at all.
The actor [Callum Turner] also found that it was easy to find similarities between the two characters, both from a character standpoint (they’re both “stubborn in their ideologies”)
Callum Turner: I had obviously seen the first film, and then I looked at Newt and thought I’d do the complete opposite – because Theseus is the complete opposite. Even though they’re very similar – and the similarities are through their stubbornness, and being successful, driven and powerful – it wouldn’t make sense if they were the same. There were little things, like having ankle swingers, I call them, in the costume; that was a nod to being brothers. But then, the writing’s so brilliant and layered and textured that it was awfully free, really.
Callum Turner: We tried to find loads of little touches that would draw the brothers together, like little details in the pocket square, or the tie pin, or having the trousers a little shorter at the bottom, that would link the two together. There’s a panache to Newt, and to Theseus, too — but it’s subtle. He’s engaged to Zoë Kravitz, so he’s got to have some style.
Eight years Newt's senior ( although Turner is nine years younger than Eddie Redmaync), Theseus is less eccentric to the eye. 'Generally, he is part of the world, dressed in a fine suit,' says Turner. 'But there are tiny similarities between his and Newt's look: ankle swingers, a pocket square, these wizard-ish touches in the shapes of the lapel and the collar.'
- Lights, Camera, Magic!: The Making of Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald
Hair and makeup designer Fae Hammond didn't have to do much with Callum Turner's hair in order to make it look like he and Eddie Redmayne were brothers, just lighten it. Her challenge, however, was that Callum has no freckles. and Eddie has a well-known smattering across his face. 'So one of my team ... Carefully freckled him up,' says Fae. 'But its a work of art and really necessary,' she confirms. Freckling took about fifty minutes each day.
- Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald: Movie Magic
Rebuffed, she comes to a halt. NEWT walks away toward THESEUS, who is very like NEWT, but more outgoing, easier in manner. THESEUS winks at LETA before turning to NEWT.
- Secrets of Dumbledore: The Original Screenplay
Callum Turner: He’s my younger brother. They love each other. It’s a lot of fun playing an older brother as well, someone who’s very sturdy, a war hero and we’re doing a scene today and Eddie gets slapped by Grindelwald with a spell and I was like my instinct in this kept saying, “Get up." You know. "Get up.” Not like, "Are you OK?” “Get up.” Like looking after him. I have a half-brother and a half-sister, but they grow up in Australia, so I didn’t grow up with them. So I didn’t know what it was really like being an older brother, feeding into that “get up” thing. Normally I’d be like, “Are you OK?” I actually did a lot of research for that. That was an important thing for me, to find the essence of being an older brother, and someone... I mean Newt is a worry for Theseus.
- Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald - Makers, Mysteries and Magic: Chapter 7
Callum Turner: And with Newt, it was very important not to play the hardened brother because that's not what he is. And I think the relationship between Newt and Theseus is that Newt is running away. Theseus is worried about Newt. He thinks he's slightly odd, he's not part of the same society or the system that he's in, and Theseus is actually trying to drag him into line, into what Theseus thinks Newt should be. And I think that's the mistake. But actually, it's born out of love. It's not born out of authority or anything. He's worried and he realizes the world around them is crumbling. He says it to him at the beginning of the film. "You have to pick a side. You have to make a choice." And that's the theme of the film, for me. And actually, what he's doing is suffocating him. He's not allowing him to breathe, instead of that "Easy, easy." I'm sure Newt, then, would be like, "Hey, Theseus, what's going on?" But he's not. He's like, "Do this. Do that. Because I know best." And that's the similarity between the two. They're so stubborn. Theseus says, "Do this," and Newt just goes, "No," straight away. He doesn't even think about... and that's the beauty; by the end of the film they're in line and they take force of the situation that they're in. But their ideologies combine, in a sense.
David Heyman: Family is a big part of it, and, you know, it's both the family you're born with and the family you make. That's a big part of, I think, of the themes of Jo's work. So family is a part of it, including the relationship between Newt and Theseus. Seeing Eddie and Callum next to each other, they really do feel like brothers, and you know, Theseus is a Ministry man, but Newt is still his brother, and that relationship is really beautiful and strong. So to answer your question, yes, family is very much a part of it, where you come from, who you are.
David Heyman: Callum brings such an authority and an authenticity to the part. I mean, you really believe that he’s Eddie’s brother and, as he so rightly said, they are opposites and yet are very clearly brothers. And what he did so brilliantly in his audition – and it’s in Jo’s [J.K. Rowling’s] writing, as well – was that you had a sense that these two people have a history. So, there is both an affection, but also a little bit of that brotherly or fraternal thing, which I think really comes across. And, you know, Theseus is a Ministry man. Newt is not a Ministry man. That brotherly love, I think, is one of the heartbeats of the film.
THESEUS: This isn't going to be like the other times. This is . . . Just try and keep an open mind, will you? And maybe a little less— A wordless gesture indicates Pickett, NEWT'S blue coat, and his messy hair.
THESEUS (not without affection): Well, it can't hurt. Come on, let's go.
- Crimes of Grindelwald: The Original Screenplay
David Heyman: But what I love about brothers in this film is that ultimately, brotherhood is more important than anything and that the two of them begin on opposite sides of it. Theseus is a Ministry man and Newt is anti-establishment. And yet, even while that is going on, Theseus whispers in his ear, "They're following you," which is a betrayal of the Ministry, but it is his brother and he's trying to get his brother to go to him. He's trying to help him, I think, not because he wants him to be on the Ministry's side. He knows what's true for Newt. And he wants to help. So the way these people both move, Newt comes through realizing he's going to have to join the battle, and Theseus realizes he might have to do it outside of the traditional Ministry platform. They're doing it as brothers, stronger together.
Callum Turner: I hope they are friends. I hope they they are best buds. I think they deserve to be friends, right? There’s been a lot of bad press in the press about their relationship. I’m sick of it.
Eddie Redmayne: I feel like by the end, they really bond in this film. It’s an amazing thing in family, isn’ it? Where you have difficult times and dynamics, moments when there’s friction and then something happens and you kind of lean into each other a bit. I’m excited for the prospect of the Scamander brothers taking on the world together.
NEWT shuffles over awkwardly to the bereft THESEUS. NEWT hesitates, struggling to find words of comfort. Then, for the first time in his life, he puts his arms around his brother. They hug.
- Crimes of Grindelwald: The Original Screenplay
Eddie Redmayne: One of the key themes is siblings really. It's there with my brother Theseus played by Callum Turner who I adore, and the complexity of those relationships in families when you're all of the same blood, but you've got completely different personality traits, and you have great love even though you are entirely different people.
Eddie Redmayne: Newt is not a social animal. He is much more at ease with his creatures. He' s not inherently someone that' s good at being part of the system and he didn' t really fit in at school. In fact, he ended up being thrown out! Whereas Theseus is very much the schoolboy hero who' s gone into a life within the Ministry, was a war hero himself and has a physical authority and a facility with people that Newt just doesn' t have. So they' re sort of chalk and cheese and yet because in this movie they have to work together they begin to realise that actually they complement each other quite well.
- Secrets of Dumbledore: The Original Screenplay
Callum Turner: Between the brothers, they're re-entering a stage in their relationship that they haven't been there for a long time probably since they were kids, both of them trying to be more open with the other, I'd say that Theseus maybe a little bit more than Newt, and they're developing an understanding, a respect for the way that the other person thinks and using that for the greater good.
Callum Turner: Well, I think what's so brilliant about the way that Steve and J.K. wrote this relationship is that it's complex. It's like two brothers that have a fractured relationship of growing apart, unfortunately, for every reason, and I think the reason is that they both think they are right. With this one, they align themselves. They both allow themselves to be slightly more flexible and see the way the other fuses the world a little bit more, and that allows them to come together to fight the good fight together.
- Secrets of Dumbledore Interview
