So, I basically made this account just to ask this question lol, because unfortunately, I'm one of the few people who likes Marchosias out there and have had to deal with the absolute deluge of dumbassery that this cesspool of a fandom has been spewing about him since day one.
Luckily you and your colleagues have been a beacon of sanity throughout this whole thing, so I've been able to better substantiate my position thanks to your efforts.
In any case, the reason I'm sending this is because of something that has been bothering me about Marchosias for awhile and I think the AMA might have finally given me an answer. So I'm curious what you think, since you're one of the few individuals in this fandom I trust to analyze a theory. Because if I'm right about this, then god are the Lambs royally fucked.
So I recall that one of the reasons we have to kill Marchosias in-game is that he's "preventing the spread of the rot" and for the longest time I couldn't figure out how. He's just a scientist who uses lightning and spends literally half the game trying to cure the Rot and being infected himself. So I just chalked it up to the Lambs just lying because they hate him and want him dead.
But then the AMA revealed two important things that got my noggin a-joggin':
- That Marchosias met Rami as a ghost.
- That the Rot is made of Lambs.
The first already seemed impossible since, how would Marchosias even know about the Lambs' wool containing their essence, let alone knowing how to summon their spirits (I mean, we're literally the God of Death, so it makes sense why we can, but where the hell would Marchosias get this elite ball knowledge from?). So like anything involving Marchosias, I just assumed he used lightning to do it, which considering the AMA said shock therapy can give people free will in this world, I'll believe lightning can energize ghosts now.
Anyway, with that train of thought, let me move on to the main thing I wanted to theorize on. So we know that Marchosias is apparently preventing the rot somehow, but nothing in Ewefall would give you the impression that anything he's doing (his machines, the packmates, etc.) involve the Lambs. In fact, most of Ewefall has nothing to do with the Lambs... except the lost spirits. Those can be found on Ewefall... so I started thinking. We need to collect those spirits to give to Yngya to feed the Rot, yet for some reason despite being on the mountain and even in the Rot where Yngya's presence permeates, they're still 'lost' and unable to reconnect to her, to merge back with the Rot. Now how would those spirits lose connection to their own god? Well, considering they were summoned without proper graves and their wool intact, the only answer would be that they were energized into manifesting by an outside force... And that's when it hit me.
If Marchosias could summon Rami, maybe he could do so with the other lamb spirits? Maybe he has been doing that and that's why those spirits are lost. Because they're not really lost, they're free. Free from Yngya's grasp, free from merging with the Rot, and free from being a part of the ritual. And that's why the Lambs needed Marchosias gone. Because if he could actually free the lamb spirits from their wool and Yngya's influence, he could quite literally free the world from the rot.
Again, I can't say for sure why Marchosias would do this, but given his hatred for the gods, the idea of these spirits being tethered to their frozen corpses for all eternity waiting for a god who'd forsaken them probably didn't sit right with and he felt that they should at least be free to pass on to the afterlife.
Which, if I'm right and that's really why the Lambs wanted Marchosias dead, that makes them even more irredeemable than I initially thought. Cause seriously, we, the God of Death are damning our own out of spite for the world, while a goddamn atheist is busy ferrying the dead to the afterlife as best as he can... seriously, devs, what the fuck?
But, yeah, just my shower thoughts, but I figured a theorycrafter like you would appreciate this, even if I'm completely off base.
I'd love to hear you ruminate on this if you're inclined to.
- Your fellow anonymous Marchosiite
This was a pleasant surprise to get :3 Glad to see there were other people who saw things differently. And happy to be of use .3. At least I didn't write all these theories and analysis for nothing.
Sorry this took so long lol between the reveals from the AMA and some other discoveries made about the alpha version of the story..... really took the wind out my sails. Makes it un-fun to theorize about something knowing it doesn't have answers. Or that the answers aren't set up in a way to be discovered by following any real logic or some sort of clue path. It's just "wouldn't it be cool/funny/interesting if X?" And then they bend the world, the story, and the characters to fit it.
Grievances aside, you raise some good points, so I was inspired to investigate.
The more-likely, thoughtless answer is probably something along the lines of Marchosias doing it to be petty. I'm lowering the bar to the floor. Like if we're being honest, I don't think they thought a lot about Marchosias' interactions with ghosts considering its not touched on at all in Woolhaven.
As for an answer with some effort put into it... Consider this the "starting to cook" level... it could've just been a consequence of his search for Rami. Meaning he was just waking up random spirits to find answers, and just left them cause... well, he had to. They don't have wool they can be put back inside. Their corpses are being used for the ritual. And only Gods of Death can actually free souls into the afterlife. [see: Necromantic Dagger]
Which—and idk if the devs realize this—makes him a necromancer.
And from here it's all deep theorizing--
Back before DND popularized the idea of a wicked magic-user commanding ~undead forces~ for combat, necromancy was known as just the act of communing with the dead to divine information. General wisdom, predictions about the future, the key to immortality, resurrection, etc etc. All that cool stuff mortals aren't meant to know.
It was considered forbidden magic. Like, it was literally a form of heathenry. Not just because it was (allegedly) used to do "unnatural" things, but because it went around the Christian God. So that's relevant.
And, fun fact, necromancy is considered by some to be the sister of alchemy. So... also happens to be relevant. Coincidence? Maybe. Who knows anymore.
Is Marchosias The Necromancer, then? (Connected to Divine Blight, Death's Attendant, and Touch of the Revenant) ...Potentially. It's on the table as an option. Yngya has like five different titles, I don't see why Marchosias can't have a few too. As a treat.
Either way. o3o Marchosias doing necromancy. That's the answer to a lot of the questions you ran into. It also means his former Bishop was either Kallamar or Narinder, the resurrection buddies.
Which is funny, because in regards to Kallamar, I've talked about this exact subject. I proposed that there were two necromancers—one who fits the traditional definition, and one who fits the modern pop-culture definition.
Shamura's lines seen in common fanon as predictions of the future (five becomes, etc) aren't actually that. Jojo clarified that those have always been intended to be like hymns lol. They're singing. Which tracks, because the text effect is the same one used by Ratoo when he's singing. And I've talked about rhyming not being a natural part of who Shamura is before. A few times, even. So I'm extra inclined to believe that Shamura is reciting something that someone else came up with. Along with other things I've analyzed about that damn spider (lovingly).
But I'm getting off track-- We're talking about Marchosias. XD
I'm assuming they've made electricity apart of his character because it was one of those things considered witchcraft back when it was first invented, but it was really just science. Like most alchemy. That's kind of the only connection there is. He's the ~science guy~. So the electricity might not be properly tied in with the necromancy.
"Release those trapped souls that clamor for freedom."
"Retainer of death, attend your master."
"Omen of great ill-fortune."
These are the Curses of the Necromancer I mentioned before. I'm having trouble finding the post (maybe I never posted it...?) but I remember writing about how I believe the curses aren't things the Necromancer did, they're things that befell the Necromancer(s). The Legendary Weapons set a sort of "precedent" that I would think loosely applies to everything else—that it's what people remember about an individual or something they were involved with.
An easy example, the Zealous Weapons. The Fanatic was a known zealot, and they had a sort of "deal" with their higher power(s) to spill blood in their name as an alternative form of worship. So they literally fed off people's zeal against their 'cause'. ((something that is a core aspect of curses))
*These images are all from either Silk Cradle or Purgatory, so the colors are off. What's pink is actually purple. What's orange is actually red.
I don't have pictures handy, so bear with me, but "souls" and "spirits" take different form. Spirits look like the person who died, but souls are more abstract in appearance. Yngya's Fleece summons lamb spirits, while Lambs' Slaughter summons lamb souls. The souls from Lamb's Slaughter act just like the souls from the Necromantic Weapons. I'm going to assume that's intentional.
The weapons require the user to kill something to summon that soul. But the curses just summon the souls with no bodies attached. In the case of the Revenant Curse, the ground is literally being ripped open to let the souls out. To me, this reads as the weapons belonging to Death Gods—those who cared for spirits in the way Hagar did for the lambs. I doubt there were a lot of executioners like Hagar haha...
On the flip side, the Necromancy Curses are just invoking the power of death. But the users have no significant connection to Death itself. They found some other way of accessing that power (going around a God). The Curses therefore represent what happened as a result of them sticking their hands in pies that weren't for them. Probably.
tfw you make a mfer so mad it manifests as a physical phenomenon
I can't prove he's freeing lamb souls for altruistic reasons... but I can prove that he did do it. On purpose. It comes down to what the rot actually is. As opposed to the flowery, poetic description it gives itself.
so they're just stuck in this constant state of volatile decomposition, forming and unforming and sticking together and mutating trying to become something new because they're supposed to become something new but they're Not Allowed because of the aforementioned Vengeance so they create these messed up monsters in a constant state of rotting yet seeking form
The most important part here is that they're supposed to become something new, but they're not allowed to. (Death is a change, we're told). Their pain manifests as a side effect of being unable to change. It's forbidden by either the Disciples or Yngya (subconsciously), since if they properly decay, they can't be used for the ritual. I think this emphasizes just how long the Disciples were expecting to have to wait.
The rot is "living" decay. What is it that makes something alive in this setting? Not souls, Rotten Followers don't have those. That leaves spirits as the only option.
Jojo implied that Marchosias had the reaction to the rot that he did because he lacks any augmentations to, I guess... keep it in check? He (and Thistle) aren't vaccinated, basically lol. Gorgo and the 'Estors are. This doesn't contradict with Research Tablet 3 either.
The Fighters were "vaccinated"—they were introduced to a version of the rot that was already dead. So living rot leaves them alone, for whatever reason. The ones dying are the ones exposed to living rot first. There are quite a few diseases out there that can't be cured once caught, they can only be vaccinated against. Smallpox and measles come to mind. Cough cough.
Marchosias can't cure the rot, but he can stop it from proliferating and spreading. And we know he can stop it from doing that because he uses it to augment the Pack Members. Gorgo is Gorgo. Mestor, Nestor, and Festor have wings. There's those half-ice creatures with the teeth... etc.
He turned the rot into, not only something technically new, but something stable and disconnected from Yngya. Their bodies don't morph or fall apart. They don't express being in any pain. They don't need to be cured when they enter the cult. And they don't die after two weeks.
To put it shortly, he knows how to kill rot. And what's causing the rotting (well, the lack of it) is the spirits themselves. They're what's keeping Yngya's heart beating. What makes your heart beat (and your muscles move, for that matter) are electrical impulses.
And so, I've come full circle.
All Lamb did was free Yngya from it. They didn't actually kill the rot. And there are specific instances where we can see rot actually "die". With these enemies, who specifically exist to generate more rot. Rotten Marchosias summons these enemies, but Rotten Yngya doesn't.
It and everything it generated turns grey and withers away when it "dies" proper. Something that. Wears a spiked collar. Presumably, anything with eyes is something that has a soul—meaning it's someone who's been infected and taken over by the rot.
Something with a soul hosting something that doesn't.
In conclusion, Marchosias most likely did free those 80 lost spirits that Lamb then shoves back into the meat grinder. Quite the God of Death we are. Wandering "lost" is an objectively better fate than being trapped inside Yngya's husk of a body, because that way they can eventually find their way to an afterlife on their own.
And see, "lost" has a dual meaning in this setting. To be "lost" also means to renounce one's faith in their God (or to otherwise stray from approved doctrine). That's Marchosias' whole thing, isn't it? Making Followers lose faith in their Gods? Religiously speaking, guiding someone "lost" back to their "flock" just means bringing them back in line with approved beliefs... so indoctrination. hah. haha.
Marchosias once again proven to be the fallen hero of the story /hj
Of course, electricity can't hurt spirits. Jojo made sure to specify that. Which means these spirits strayed of their own volition. Almost like Yngya did something to make them lose faith. Something like... abandoning them. Or selling them out to the Old Faith for the sacrifice.
......
Not Lamb re-indoctrinating victims back into their cults on two different levels. lmao. what was the moral of the story here? That Lamb is the worst ever? XD
Feeding spirits to the mountain strengthened the rot (and Winter). So taking spirits out would weaken those things. It would help explain why it was kept under control until recently too.
That gives two solid reasons why Marchosias would be freeing lamb spirits under this line of thought.
1) His own sick enjoyment (lovingly). He kills rot to use in his experiments and to give to his Super Soldiers; killing rot innately means to free the spirits from it (or otherwise sever the meat's connection with Yngya/the heart). Despite being powered by electricity, being struck by lightning still kills people lol Something about it being so much that it cancels it all out. idk im not a scientist. But clearly, it's well within his toolset to use lightning to stop the mountain's heart and all the rot born from it.
This would also give a reason as to why the Rot went "fuck this guy in particular". Besides the lambs' prejudice against canines, and it will never not be funny that they didn't intend for that to be present apparently.
2) To end the eternal Winter Ewefall is subject to. Whether it's Winter or Summer, Ewefall is covered in snow. Through Aym and Baal it's confirmed that terrible blizzards regularly hit the mountain, even if we can't see that via gameplay. Marchosias notes that he doesn't understand why it's snowing in Research Tablet 1. Suggesting it's not natural/expected. The stronger Winter is, the harder it is to survive. To weaken/end Winter is to do the same to Rot.
Aaand, that's my two cents, I suppose. Anon, you're a genius. I was so blindsided (and honestly annoyed) by the ghost thing, I didn't know where to begin XD But your theory helped reconnect some dots back into place.
The whole "formerly enslaved" thing they left implied in there also leaves room for his reason actually being because he strongly believes it's wrong for these spirits to be trapped. And everything else I just listed is just a nice benefit that comes with saving them.
ya know, the whole "rot being weak to electricity" thing kinda re-frames Marchosias' boss fight. Is he trying to kill himself the entire time? Like Rotten Yngya? Surely thats why he keeps grabbing the nodes? It's not a power-up. it's a power-down. ...It's funny (funny sad :') ) since it would mean he's basically ""shock therapy-ing"" himself to regain control. and they dare call him a hypocrite. He lives by his methods and he'll die by them too.
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Ahhh thank you!!! Alrighty so my answer to questions:
1. Sure! I dont mind seeing it!
2. Welll... Shamura isnt introduced into the comic yet so I dont make much art of them, BUT there is a few. Which I either I already shared or doodled
There are also older ones that I did druing magma with @/loloelia
There are also these two but take these two with grain of aalt, since it has the 'shamuras ex lore' but lately I have been thinking and considering of re-writing it. (IM SORRY KATA-THE-BEE, BUT THE EX LORE I GAVE YOU IN COMMENTS MIGHT CHANGE)
So yeah. These are all I could find AND fit in cuz there is a limit to 10 pictures.. Sad.
So yup!
(fun fact: Lowkey I am re-writing some of the lores. For example Kall's lore has been rewritten but the things you guys know stay the same! For example that he was lowkey a warrior in training. To Leshy's lore has been added few things but mostly stayed the same. While Heket's lore I consider making less- graphic. Mostly because she is in a way inspired by my events from life. Nari stayed the same. Lamb changes cuz woolhaven BUT I GOT SMTH FIGURED OUT, and Sham... Sham I dont know for now 😔)
I will answer these questions in regards to my Time loop au (first chapter for that fic is out now)
Question 22: can the lamb play any instruments? How good are they at it?
Answer: the lamb can play a tamborine very well and happily does so during the festivals
Question 32: Was the lamb ever in love with anyone romantically?
answer: yes! Ever since they first stepped into the gateway and met Narinder for the first time they were helplessly in love with him. Beforehand they only ever married followers who asked to be married to them, in which case the lamb was not in love with them but did it merely to keep their flock happy:)
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2. I change the lore more than I change my own fucking art supplies, but by now, and it might seem crazy, 35, yes. Abel was taken with the Old Faith when he was 34, before Abel got first beaten and then beheaded by them.
26. Yes! Abel has a more "natural" look—Prominent fangs, blacker skin, freckles, strong hispanic tone, baggy eyes— so he gets makeup for hiding it, this is why he looks pale gray, because he tries to hide his insecurity with the makeup. As well he uses jewelry! He has two earrings that resemble two inverted crucifixs, a decorative golden chain that goes above his fleece that has an inverted star and two inverted crucifixes, as well the marriage ring of Narinder, and some others that are more for ritualistic stuff—such as the bell neckalce that is replaced for a choker that comnects with two rings— or... sexual stuff—which, Abel makes sure to keep hidden from the adepts lmao—
8. Did your lamb have any specific skills pre-sacrifice?
Making flower crowns! Hope would collect flowers from the neighbors gardens and weave them together! She used them to decorate her parent’s house and her room. The elder sheep adored it; many wore her crowns as a beacon of pride. Others would weave the flowers into their wool. Her little brother wore her crowns as necklaces. Hope was known in the village as the flower princess!
(Hope is about five summers old in this picture ☺️)
18. On a scale of one to ten how floppy are their ears?
I’d give them about a 7 on the flopper scale. Pretty floppy! Lamb’s ears are also a good place to check how Hope is feeling; when the wind isn’t blowing them away of course.