#2013-sep

Season 8 DVD Extra: “Angel Warrior: The Story of Castiel”

[Dean: Cas we’re getting out of here. We’re going home. Castiel: I can’t] [Dean, Cas and Benney standing beside the river in Purgatory] Singer: An angel who feels guilt, who says, “I’m in the right place in Purgatory cause this is where I- this- this should be my punishment.” There’s a lot you can do with that character.

[Castiel: Dean!] Carver: You know, it’s just one piece of the proof that this character that started out as pretty much a warrior angel who rescues Dean from Hell had a certain richness. 

[Samandriel: Despite his mistakes, Castiel’s heart was always in the right place.] Singer: He’s got this power, he’s got this connection to heaven, but he’s- he- he’s behaving, you know, he has the emotions of a mortal, and those things always conflict within him. Glass: It allows us to learn more about our own humanity. When you have a character that’s a blank slate, it allows you to explore so many things about humanity, the good and the bad. And I think Castiel is the perfect example of that. [Dean: Hold on! Castiel: Dean! Dean--]

[Title Screen: ANGEL WARRIOR: The Story of Castiel] [Dean: (in Hell) Somebody help me! (pants in pain) Sam!] Edlund: Well, I think one of the- one of the first very important jobs that- that, uh, had to get done was, Dean had to get out of Hell, which is a big problem. We toyed with the idea of there being a kind of a quest or a large s-sort of series of events that took place, uh, for- for Dean to get out of Hell. And, um, it really came down to, we knew it was going to happen, so why not have it just happen?

[Dean examines the red handprint on his shoulder in the mirror] Carver: We start in the writers room talking about what types of things could actually pull Dean from Hell, and knowing that we wanted to start getting into these ideas of, um, uh, angels and heaven and everything. At its root, it was just very smart that this divine thing pulled him out.

[Dean dodges breaking glass in the gas station] Edlund: And, then he’s sort of pursued by this sort of, uh, what seems like a sinister unseen force. That was the entity, Castiel, without a vessel, trying to make contact with Dean.

[Castiel reveals his black wings in the barn to a disbelieving Dean] Glass: Yeah, our show is definitely not the Touch by an Angel's kind of angels. (laughs) Our angels, uh, have an agenda. Singer: These are n-, y’know, not little cherubs sitting on your shoulder and they weren’t Clarence in- from, y’know, It’s a Wonder Life. Dabb: These are people who are warriors. They’re there to enf- at least, at the very beginning, they’re there to enforce what they believe is the will of God.

[Dean: I thought angels were supposed to be guardians - fluffy wings, halos - not dicks.] Edlund: Supernatural branching into the world of angels? Uh, that’s a pretty big deal. It was, mythologically speaking, a big branch. Jared: And Jensen and I both were like, well, you know we didn’t sign up to make, like, a show about religion, like, that’s not what we’re trying to do as actors. And, when we signed up for Supernatural we thought we were making, like urban legends, myths, blah-blah-blah. Jensen: You know, I wasn’t quite sure where they were taking it. I mean, now all of a sudden we were dealing with angels and demons, whereas before we were dealing with, y’know, ghosts and- and goblins.

[(FM) Misha: You guys want to run lines, or…? Dean: His name’s Misha. (looks skeptical) Misha?] Misha: When they sent out the sides for this audition, for the role of Castiel, the sides said it was a demon, because Eric didn’t want to reveal that they were adding an angel to the show. Edlund: The first episode of the fourth season was built to really be this slow build, with a big kind of introduction at the end of it, so keeping it quiet was pretty important.

Misha: I did one- one take of the scene and Eric said, “Okay, good, good, but actually, y-you’re n- cat’s out of the bag, you’re an angel, not a demon, now do it again.” And I did, and apparently he liked what I did, cause, um, I got the part.

[Castiel walks into a barn lit by sparking lights] Misha: The season premiere of Season 4, which was the episode that I a- first appeared in, at McGee’s offices, sort of at the screening party, and Sera Gamble, um, the writer and producer, was standing next to me. And right when I came on screen, she leaned over and whispered to me, “Your life is about to change.” And then, lo and behold, it really has changed remarkably, and it’s, um, it’s been quite exciting.

[Castiel: I’m an angel of the Lord.] Sgriccia: When we bring in Castiel, he’s -he’s in a human form. If you were to look at an angel, you’d be blinded and you’d be deaf from the sound of it. Edlund: There’s a lot that we owe to the badass presentation of angels. Like, there’s Constantine, there’s, um, Prophecy with, uh, Christopher Walken. One of the things that became a powerful icon for that character was just the trench coat. It became quite powerful. Singer: It was really a stunning shot where you saw the- the shadow of these enormous wings. And it was not, uh, (in a hippie voice) “Oh, wow that’s an angel.” It was, (sounds nervous) “Oh, like, geez, that’s an angel,” y’know.

Edlund: We didn’t swing for the, uh, animatronic wings that are constantly fluttering and re-fluttering behind him. There’s a desire to step away from that sort of thing and be a little bit more low to the ground, which is Supernatural’s general aesthetic thrust.

[Dean: Who are you? Castiel: I’m the one who gripped you tight and raised you from Perdition. Dean: Yeah?] Edlund: When Misha created the persona for this character, I forget if he had a cold or not, or if he just decided to do it, but he, uh, pitched his voice down a little bit, to give himself gravitas. Misha: Oh, I thought, oh, I sh- I should give him, like, a really commanding, powerful voice.

[Castiel: You have no faith.] Misha: Something that I now regret, because I’ve been doing it for six years, and there are definitely times when I have to go home and like, drink hot lemon water and- (laughs) and have a sore throat. Jensen: He came in with a, y’know, he- he committed. And, y’know, sometimes you- you win some and sometimes you don’t, but it’s nice to- to have somebody with that kind of a conviction. Carver: Y’know, there was a vein that was struck there with this character. I’m probably not the one to say why it worked. I can only tell you... it d-did, and- and it has worked, and the proof is in the pudding. 

Jensen: The fact that you know, we have essentially an angel who can pop in and pop out wherever we are- 

[Castiel: Hello Dean] Jensen: -I thought was a really good recipe for somebody to stick around, and- and be a- a- a greater part of this storyline.

[Castiel: Thank you. For everything. Dean: Save the Hallmark, okay? It’s gonna work. Nobody gets left behind.] Carver: I don’t see – and- and I’m not saying he’s not, but – I don’t look at Castiel as a mentor and a protector at all. I look at him as yet another person that was sucked into the Winchester brothers’ orbit. Edlund: He was on the heavenly payroll, and every time he showed up it was to accomplish some specific goal and he was not stretching too far out of that range to aid the boys. And sometimes he was a problem for the boys. Glass: He sometimes gets lost along the way in what he thinks is right and protecting the boys, and does things that, at the end of the day, um, end up not helping.

Edlund: As an angel, his- his understanding of human emotions was something that was, like, naive, even though he had watched humans for so long. Singer: His motives generally are right but, y’know, he- he makes mistakes because he doesn’t quite understand everything.

[Dean: What the Hell’s wrong with you? Castiel: I am an angel in a land of abominations. There have been things hunting me since the moment we arrived. Dean: (yelling) Join the club. Castiel: These are not just monsters, Dean. They’re Leviathan. I have a price on my head, and I have been trying to stay one step ahead of them to- to keep them away from you.]

Misha: He sees himself as Dean’s protector, and at the same time sees Dean as something of a mentor, because there’s a lot about the world he doesn’t understand and that he can glean from Dean. Singer: He saw in the boys, really, the worth in humanity, and he became sort of enamored of humanity as, y’know, channeled through Sam and Dean. So, on the one hand, he thinks, “I owe this allegiance to God, I owe this allegiance to the angels, but I think this freewill thing is right, and I think that’s probably what God wanted.” So, that was his sort of line of demarcation with the angels. Jensen: This relationship that he has developed with these humans, uh, has- has truly shaped the story that he is- is now kind of creating for himself. It’s- it’s much more freewill than it is about, y’know, the- the- the duty of an angel. Dabb: Castiel is the boys’ best ally. He’s kind of the one friend that isn’t each other that they’ve been able to rely on for years. That doesn’t mean he’s perfect, because he definitely is not that, and they go- that goes the other way, too. But he’s always been there for them, and I think that’s been very important, because the only brother (sic) people in their lives who- who fill that role are them- are, y’know, basically each other. Carver: I don’t know if the relationship would have worked as well, if he was just a mentor as opposed to a- a friend.

[Dean: (startles awake, spilling his beer) Ugh. Dammit, Cas. How many times I gotta tell you? It’s just creepy.] Carver: Just to speak of the Dean-Cas of it, I think you’ve got two incredibly dynamic, uh, y’know, characters slash actors in their own right who are so good at being exactly what they’re supposed to be, and what they are, essentially, is an odd couple.

[Dean: In the police report, it said that the, uh, the bush- it talked to you. Yeah? Victim: It sounded like Klingon to me. Dean: I’m gonna need exact words. Victim: You’re serious? Castiel: That’s his serious face, yes.] Edlund: Castiel the entity. This celestial being, as the fish-out-of-water- um, h-he’s an alien. He’s an alien to human experience.

[Castiel: What’s so funny?] Jared: Misha’s brought so much. I mean, Misha, he’s a very intelligent person and he’s brought a soul and understanding and some awesome humor and, um... so many other things.  I mean, Cas, it feels like he lives and breathes on-screen.

[Dean: It’s wabbit season. (Sam smiles.) Castiel: I don’t think you pronounced that correctly.] Sgriccia: Misha plays it so straight. He’s like Starman. He’s just this guy that you think- he looks human, but his cadence, his rhythm, his timing on things is off. There’s huge funny pieces that happen with him and the guys. 

[Castiel: I’m going to become a hunter.] Sgriccia: Because he says something that’s totally straight – it comes off as really, really funny.

[Sam: Really? Castiel: Yeah. I could be your third wheel! (Sam laughs and bites his tongue) Dean: You know that’s not a good thing, right? Castiel: Course it is! A third wheel adds extra grip, greater stability-] Glass: Everything from the way he plays him, where, y’know- And it allows us to write great jokes where he doesn’t always get what’s being said, you know, and always, y’know, takes things very literally.

[Dean: She’s right, you know. I mean, the whole heart jumping out of the guy’s chest, the- the delayed fall - that’s straight-up Bugs Bunny. Castiel: So we’re looking for some sort of insect-rabbit hybrid? How do we kill it?] Jensen: The fact that he is (laughs) has really committed to that character, uh, I think made it really, uh, really unique and interesting for the storyline.

[Castiel: (interviewing a cat) I’ve almost cracked him. Dean: Now! Castiel: Hey, I’m not through with you. Cat: Dumbass.] Edlund: Misha really played that in a lot of different ways. I mean, there’s been a lot of different incarnations of Castiel, because he’s gone through so much. Glass: I’m gonna go really geeky on you guys right now. (laughs) Um, you know, he’s our Data from Star Trek: Next Generation, you know? He is our character that allows us to explore humanity. He’s an angel who loves humans, and so I think what you’re getting to see in him and what makes him such a great character is, he’s a reflection of us.

[Castiel: (yelling) Why did you kill your husband?! Dean: Agent Stills? Sam: Please, forgive my partner. He’s, uh, he’s going through some stuff.] Edlund: It’s his un-formedness, in a way, as an angel that allows him to make the decisions he makes during the course of the- the story. He had what Dean and Sam later described as a moral lapse.

[Castiel: Speak plain. Crowley: I want to discuss a simple business transaction, that’s all. Castiel: You want to make a deal? With me?]

Misha: One of the biggest problems with the character is that he’s too powerful, and you don’t want an ally, uh, for Sam and Dean who can solve all of their problems with a snap of his fingers, so one of the things that they’ve been doing with Castiel over the last several years is finding ways to impede his power. He becomes kind of an enemy by being God, or he goes insane. There’s all these different layers that they have used to incapacitate him in some way. When we first met Castiel, he was very much the good little soldier. Over time, his exposure to Sam and Dean has made him much more human. It has given him, y’know, questions to wrestle with, like, “Do I have freewill? Do we all have freewill?” Questions that a good little soldier doesn’t normally wrestle with. Mark S.: We intersect with each other because we have agenda that are similar.

[Crowley: I’m talking about Raphael’s head on a pike. I’m talking about happy endings for all of us, with all possible entendres intended. C’mon. Just a chat?] Dabb: Crowley was made in Hell, Castiel was made in Heaven, and both of them are rebelling to some degree. They’ve both kind of broken away from the home office. They’re both kind of rebels in that way, and I think that’s what really gave them a common ground. They’re like, y’know, we’re rebels. You’re a rebel, I’m a rebel, let’s be rebels together.

[Crowley: It’s either this, or the apocalypse all over again. Everything you’ve worked for, everything that Sam and Dean have worked for-- gone.] Sgriccia: I think there was always gonna be some flaws in him – you know, power corrupts. So he got corrupted, and he went the wrong way, and it went- horribly bad. You know, because he had all those souls in him, um, and he realized that it wasn’t gonna work. Y-you know, that’s the human part coming out, that he realizes that. Otherwise he would have just kept going.

[Castiel slams Crowley against a wall.] Carver: For me, it’s all a balance between the joy and the pain. Mark S.: I mean, this is- it’s an amazing push and pull.

[Crowley: This is not how synergy works!] Mark S.: They need each other. They’re, y’know, they’re two sides of a very similar coin. Misha: Ah, boy, Crowley is pr- a big problem. And he just doesn’t seem to be going away, unfortunately. I don’t know what to do about it.

[Naomi: Tell me about Sam and Dean. Castiel: The prophet is being kept safe. The tablet has split in two, and the Winchesters are trying to recover the missing piece. Why am I telling you any of this?] Mark S.: The introduction of Naomi adds a- a second twist to it, which is, angels aren’t just the goody-goody- I mean, we’re getting a sense here that the stuff being done – “for the good of the garrison” shall we say – goes beyond what we thought angels were capable of doing.

[Naomi: Let us put the tablet back where it should be. Castiel: I need to protect it.] Singer: When he realizes that he’s been sort of a pawn in this game again, he feels I don’t- I can’t do anything right, I- y’know, it- it just wh- Whatever I do in relation to the Winchesters or whatever I do here on Earth when I think I’m being helpful, here I’m being puppeted by this-this person. Dabb: Cas is seen by heaven as an agent of chaos. You know, for good reason.  Like, he ripped the place apart, he’s instrumental in the downfall of these Archangels.

Singer: He’s kind of crestfallen a-about this. He feels, “The best thing for me to do is just,” you know, “Get the hell out of here. Go underground. Not be- not be involved.” Sgriccia: The humanist part helps him correct himself in a way. There’s this whole thing about heaven and the angels and how they’re dysfunctional and just like humans in a way, only a different level of arguments and disagreements. And there’s- is, you know, it’s in disarray in heaven, and he doesn’t want that anymore. Jared: Cas is starting to see the power of humanity, um, through these brothers, and what they’re willing to do and what they’re willing to sacrifice. And I think that’s kind of a story that Supernatural is trying to tell. Edlund: His ability to connect with a human, a naturally flawed, naturally imperfect, naturally given to the doubts and caprices of freewill – there’s something broken in Cas that resonates with whatever it is that is broken in humanity.

[Naomi: Castiel. Castiel!] Edlund: There’s a crack in Cas and, I put forward, the crack through which amazing things come. That’s why he keeps coming back. It has to be this way, in part because he was the one who was primed to lose it in the face of humanity’s plight. Singer: He realizes the, um, the importance of the angel tablet and his one last sort of thing of “I’m gonna do the right thing” is “I’m going to protect this- this tablet.“

[Castiel: They’re getting closer. Waiter: What’s that, Chief?] Singer: “This is- this is my last connection to God, really, and I have this tablet and I’m going to at all costs hold it and keep it. I don’t want the Angels to have it, I don’t want the Winchesters to have it. This is my last shot to make it right for me.”

[Castiel: Shut up! (knocks an angel down and casts him out of his vessel] [Castiel walking into the barn in Season 4] Glass: You can write a great character, but if it’s not acted right, uh, then it doesn’t mean anything. And, what really any writer or producer will tell you is what’s amazing – and I know this is the case with Misha – where you write a great character but then they come in and even bring it to a whole other level. Dabb: You have a universe. You have stories you want to tell. You have different moving parts. And if someone’s a moving part that can, y’know, twi- spin and spin and spin, they’re al- you’re always gonna get more use out of them, versus the one person that’s just there for a little while. Sometimes, you know that kind of early on, but more often it- it’s something that is really only apparent- only apparent in hindsight. Misha: That’s also something that has worked well for me. It’s just gratifying and interesting to play something that is always changing, and not to be sort of stuck in a rut. 

Context: SPN’s then visual effects I/O coordinator, Adam Williams, ‘s thought about Destiel before he changed his mind and started shipping it. Also, there are some thoughts on fanfic and fandom.

thehappyreaderx: “adamwvfx Rom-com? http://cloudy-fic.livejournal.com/40016.html?page=5 It's also short so you can probably read it in 10 minutes. ;)” - Sep 5, 2013

TheAdamWilliams: “LifesEpiphanyx See that's my kind of fic -  10 minutes of reading, 2 to clean up the mess, and back to life.” - Sep 5, 2013

alenedn_: “adamwvfx LifesEpiphanyx We have a good selection of D/C fics here and you can filter by lenght -> http://profoundbond.com/fanwork/fanfic” Sep 5, 2013

TheAdamWilliams: “batalene LifesEpiphanyx I am not particularly into the Destiel.. but I will take a peek.” 5:52 PM Sep 5, 2013

[source]

TheAdamWilliams: “Please, allow me to clarify.

I am not a shipper, and if I was it would not be Destiel.

It would be #Joby = Jo + (Blond) Ruby.” - 5:57PM Sep 5, 2013

[source]

GetInMyTardiis: “adamwvfx you ship Destiel? :3″ - Sep 6, 2013

TheAdamWilliams: “GetInMyTardiis Please refer to my "I do not ship Destiel" tweets from yesterday. :-)

I am just reading some fanfic. #AppreciateCreativity” - 5:00 PM Sep 6, 2013

[source]

TheAdamWilliams: “And "Hands" is finished.. decent read, short but sweet. :-)

Next up.. "Named"” - Sep 6, 2013

AccioTV: “adamwvfx I love that you're on a DeanCas fic reading kick :)” - Sep 6, 2013

TheAdamWilliams: “AccioAngels Just a fanfic reading kick.. not "Destiel" in particular

#IAmNotAShipperJustABibiophile” - 8:06 PM Sep 6, 2013

[source] 

AccioTV: “adamwvfx ah, I had just saw you name a few deancas ones. But either way, still good. :)” - Sep 6, 2013

TheAdamWilliams: “AccioAngels Yea I am aiming for the "gen" fics more so ;-)

Still.. it's all good by me.. I enjoy people's intimacy and imagination.” - Sep 6, 2013

AccioTV: “adamwvfx gen fics can be so so good! Our fandom has some brilliant and wonderful writers. It's actually fairly intimidating sometimes.” - Sep 6, 2013

TheAdamWilliams: “AccioAngels Yes!

Folks are brave to release their work into the wild for everyone to dissect and comment on. #BraverThanI” - 8:12 PM Sep 6, 2013

On September 30, 2013, Robbie Thompson responded to this thread that he was mentioned in:

shadowhund: “AdamGlass44 rthompson1138 robertberens did you know that Sam was 10 days in the desert? Did he meditate there? I would love to see this” rthompson1138: “tcup9300 shadowhund AdamGlass44 i respectfully 100% disagree. any chance y’all can take this convo elsewhere? gracias.

But this old screenshot shows some missing tweets from the conversation:

On September 21 2013, Adam tweeted out this series of tweets:

AdamGlass44: “Re:queer bating. The writers are a diverse group of open minded people from all walks of life. We write what feels right. It is not our job” - 10:35 PM Sep 20, 2013

[source]

AdamGlass44: “To tell you how to feel. We present. Much like a musician and a song. Our audience large and diverse as we are. So we speak to many and” - 10:37 PM Sep 20, 2013

[source]

AdamGlass44: “Hope that their is something for everyone to connect. For us to define love or what you feel about two characters is not our job. We love” - 10:38 PM Sep 20, 2013

[source]

AdamGlass44: “All our characters and do our best to tell an entertaining story. We love these characters and our fans. And would never hurt any of you.” - 10:40 PM Sep 20, 2013

[source] 

And then around 3-4 hours later Adam tweeted out this set:

AdamGlass44: “Last thing to say about this. I do not speak officially for #SPN just myself. I loving writing these characters for myself and the fans.” - 2:19 PM Sep 20, 2013

[source]

AdamGlass44: “But I do not appreciate me or the writer's being called something that I have fought my whole life against. We have many gay friends, family” - 2:21 PM Sep 20, 2013

[source]

AdamGlass44: “I know that is not good enough for some. But that is the truth. I write these characters for not any one group, but all. And I hope that you” - 2:24 PM Sep 20, 2013

[source]

AdamGlass44: “All can see a little bit of yourself in them, as I do when I write them. Peace.” - 2:25 PM Sep 20, 2013

[source]

According to the FandomDebunker Adam made these tweet after being informed of this article: [x]

And then after about five days afterwards Adam made this tweet in response to “seeing a number of fans misinterpret” the tweets above:

AdamGlass44: “I ain't mad at chu. I got nuthin' but love for you #SPN fans. Do your thang.” - 1:31 AM Sep 26, 2013

[source]

The Geekiary, a destiel biased media site, provides more context on the situation:[x]

One of the comments underneath the Geekiary’s article said: 

“I agree with you about fandom’s expectation of “Destiel” and the fact that Dean and Castiel seem in no way headed towards being canon. I am puzzled, however, at why Adam Glass felt the need to post a rebuttal on Twitter about a write-up on SpoilerTV. No one attacked him on Twitter. What about simply rising above it and ignoring it? Going further back, Adam Glass and Robbie Thompson engage with many fans on Twitter, and when they first joined Twitter, teased the relationship between Dean and Castiel quite a bit, going so far as to make their own “ship” name, Robdam. Wouldn’t it be much better if writers refrained from this behavior with fans on Twitter? I hope this is indeed a learning experience for them as well, to keep some distance between themselves and the viewers who are the final consumers of their products.

To be honest, I was more shocked at Adam Glass’ tweets about this, than the write-up on SpoilerTV, coming from a viewer. I hope this incident is a learning experience for those associated with the show.”

But, another comment said:

“To be fair to Adam, many people were tweeting him about it a couple days before he responded. When I was trying to figure out what queer baiting meant, I read back through the tweets and saw several badgering him, including one saying: “All these scenes with Dean and Cas for nothing. Now THIS is called queerbaiting.” (...) Initially, after several people tweeted him upset about the rumour circulating on Tumblr, Adam merely responded with “My bubbie use[d] to say, don’t believe everything you read.” So I guess he initially intended to just let it go at that, but the pressure must’ve mounted over the next three days until he burst.

I saw one person tweet him 23 times in a row. (And then hilariously accused another person of stalking him/her for responding to him/her with just one tweet.) (Also amusing, in the midst of all this, Kim Rhodes tweeted: “I would like to go on record as saying if I could only stalk one person on Twitter, it would be @AdamGlass44. #cuz”)

TV Guide Canada gets Collins to talk about the "intense intimacy" of Castiel and Dean, Castiel fan fiction and the possibility of a gay dream sequence.

   Speaking to TV Guide Canada at the CBS party at the 2013 Television Critics Association Press Tour in July,  Supernatural regular Collins said he would be game for a fan fiction-affirming kiss between his character and Jensen Ackles’s Dean Winchester. Well, provided Ackles follows through on one, minor condition.

   “If Cas and Dean had a kissing scene, whether it’s a dream sequence or not, I would just really hope that Jensen brushed his teeth,” he quipped. “That would be my dream.”

   In all seriousness though, Collins noted that he does sense a definite tension between Castiel and Dean on set, especially after coming into contact with fanfiction that ships and points out the connections between the surface-straight duo.

   “It’s one of the very unexpected surprises of coming to this job,” Collins said of fanfic. “Knowing that it is out there, you can’t help but be conscious of it in those moments.”

   He continued, “It’s hard to say whether we’re playing to the fact that we know fans are doing that, or whether that’s just a real aspect of their relationship … But I think that there is a certain intense intimacy to their relationship that is real and that fuels that fanfiction.”

   Collins couldn’t confirm whether any seemingly suggestive moments between Cas and Dean are written to provoke fans or will be in the future, but he has some serious backstage suspicions.