#14.05

Shantol Jackson as Naomi Thomas DEATH IN PARADISE (2011 - ) Season 14, Episode 5.

like maybe the reason he got so bad after she died is because his feelings for her were intensified, but the concept pushed forward by the fandom is that john's feelings were Real(tm) but mary's are 100% fake. there's also very little evidence john was a bad father prior to her death (i know people point to the dark side of the moon but thats only indicative of johnmary relationship troubles, not necessarily john being a bad father)

like. i dont actually think all of her feelings for john were manufactured, every time she talks about john she seems to sincerely believe in his goodness, and if the cupid caused them to fall in love, why would it be affecting her opinion on him (season 14) when it was shown to not affect her opinion on their relationship when they were together (her and him having fights for one).

now i'm not defending john winchester's actions i just find it strange people are willing to jump to "oh mary was forced into the relationship and didn't love john at all" but no one ever suggests that about john, when he's included in the cupid's line of "they couldn't stand each other" and afaik john was a decent guy before mary died.

hi anon! it's nice to get asks for sure but i am not a mary expert!! i do love her dearly but please take everything i say as something i will happily give way about to a real mary understander.

but tbh yeah it really does seem like mary loved john.

in 12.02, she says:

MARY: Stuff I'd forgotten about. Funny stuff your dad did. He was a great father.

in 14.05, she says:

MARY: Bobby's not open like your dad. SAM: Wait. Like my dad? MARY: Okay. At least he's not like your dad was when I knew him.

these are things she says long after the cupid's effects would need to be taking place. but of course these are all things we can do readings about! and i'm certainly a sucker for lesbian mary!

but given all of this and, i am inclined to think that the cupid's effect was more about breaking down the initial dislike of each other but that mary and john did end up in a semi-functional and pretty loving (i.e average) relationship? which is not to say that heaven interfering in their lives isn't incredibly fucked up and violating! just that, i think often times, people find things to like and love about each other... and regardless of heaven, it's clear something mary specifically wanted was a life and a family outside of hunting - which john clearly provided!

and i agree that it would be weird to think the cupid only changed mary's feelings and not john's. but i really cannot emphasize enough that i would not consider myself an expert in this!

the one thing i will say is in dark side of the moon, john does seem to have developed his pattern for leaving (with an unclear timeline) as relationship problem solving (and maybe a little bit punishment) before mary died. which, to me, is not the sign of a super great or decent father...

MARY: Hello? … No, John. … We’re not having this conversation again.… Think about what? … You’ve two boys at home. DEAN: I remember this. Mom and Dad were fighting and then he moved out for a couple days.

i was okay with s12 mary and her "i need space" monologue, 30 years off the bench and suddenly back again but leaving your son when he not many days ago got possessed by an archangel and thinks all it's happening is his fault. look at him, he needs his mama, he needs comfort rn

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