strange anni

Considering that Nancy and Jonathan in the middle of S3 are still (and will be for quite a while) a couple it's quite an odd choice to let both of them reference Oliver Twist. In hindsight with the knowledge of what happens in S5, it gets more clear as why it's not such a bad fit after all.

For the time being though, it should have raised more eyebrows than it probably did for not only is there also an important character called Nancy inside the story, there is also no romantic tension between Oliver and Nancy whatsoever. This is among other reasons due to Oliver still being a child of approximately 9 or 10 years and Nancy being at least 5 to 10 years older than he is. Note that I am making a guess here as I don't know how old Nancy actually is.

Yet the relationship between Oliver and Nancy is quite an interesting one and Nancy has a huge impact on the life of Oliver and what becomes him throughout the novel.

First she is the reason for Olivers doom as she is the one who pulls him of the street and therefore also away from a family who gave him a home and cared for him a great deal. She takes him when he is vulnerable and alone and leads him right into the arms of the villains of the story who are dead set on corrupting him in order to make him do criminal deeds.

Later in the novel however Nancy also has a change of heart and it is through her brave and courageous actions that Oliver can be saved and find his happy ending even if Nancy cannot.

She is the reason for his salvation and of this I believe we also get a glimpse of in S5 when our Nancy is the one to start their break up conversation by telling Jonathan how she really feels about him. Honesty sometimes also requires lots of courage and thanks to Nancy displaying it at the right time she did not only save him but also herself from a relationship neither of them wanted.

Oliver Twist's Nancy saves Oliver by spying on a conversation between the villains of the story and then later relaying the information she could gather to the one person among Oliver's allies she seems to trust the most.

This person is called Rose Maylie.

Rose is "not past seventeen" and much like Oliver and presumably Nancy an orphan but unlike the the latter two she had a better upbring due to first being taken in as a young child and then raised by a kind and wealthy woman who's adopted niece she would become whereas the other two only ever knew poverty.

Nancy in contrast to Rose describes her upbring as follows:

“Thank Heaven upon your knees, dear lady,” cried the girl, “that you had friends to care for and keep you in your childhood, and that you were never in the midst of cold and hunger, and riot and drunkenness, and—and something worse than all—as I have been from my cradle; I may use the word, for the alley and the gutter were mine, as they will be my deathbed.” Chapter XXXIX

Nancy in Oliver Twist is a thief and also part of the thieves' gang who's leaders are so intent to corrupt Oliver throughout the entire story as there is much to gain for them if they succeed. One of these leaders and also the main villain of the story is a guy called Bill Sikes who is also Nancy's lover.

It is however also this Bill she is betraying by first sedating him and then relaying his plans to Rose.

As for why Nancy only trusts Rose I have no idea but I would guess it is because they are both close in age and she might seem the most likely one to believe Nancy what she has to tell her.

Rose then is also the first person to ever show Nancy kindness.

“Your having interfered in this dear boy’s behalf before,” said Rose; “your coming here at so great a risk to tell me what you have heard; your manner, which convinces me of the truth of what you say; your evident contrition, and sense of shame, all lead me to believe that you might be yet reclaimed. Oh!” said the earnest girl, folding her hands as the tears coursed down her face, “do not turn a deaf ear to the entreaties of one of your own sex; the first—the first, I do believe, who ever appealed to you in the voice of pity and compassion. Do hear my words, and let me save you yet for better things.” “Lady,” cried the girl, sinking on her knees, “dear, sweet, angel lady, you are the first that ever blessed me with such words as these, and if I had heard them years ago, they might have turned me from a life of sin and sorrow; but it is too late—it is too late!” Chapter XXXIX

After Nancy tells Rose her story she is intent on trying to help her as best as she can to get out of the situation she lives in. She tries to offer an alternative of living, tries to offer her money but Nancy doesn't take any of it. Instead she wants to go back to Bill where she knows she will likely face his wrath if he were to ever find out what she did in order to betray him and save Oliver.

His wrath she will face but first she will also meet Rose for a second time where Rose again tries to convince Nancy to get away from the guy she is with but again she won't be successful.

“This purse,” cried the young lady. “Take it for my sake, that you may have some resource in an hour of need and trouble.” “No, no,” replied the girl. “I have not done this for money. Let me have that to think of. And yet—give me something that you have worn: I should like to have something—no, no, not a ring—your gloves or handkerchief—anything that I can keep as having belonged to you, sweet lady. There. Bless you—God bless you. Good night, good night.” Chapter XLIV

Nancy doesn't want any help or money. She only asks Rose for a single personal item of hers.

She staggered and fell, nearly blinded with the blood that rained down from a deep gash in her forehead, but raising herself with difficulty on her knees drew from her bosom a white handkerchief—Rose Maylie’s own—and holding it up in her folded hands as high towards Heaven as her feeble strength would let her, breathed one prayer for mercy to her Maker. Chapter XLV

It is the same item she holds in her hand and raises it to high heaven as she gets murdered by Bill near the end of the story.

Look, I know this book was written and released in the first half of the 19th century. I know Nancy and Rose are supposed to be foils for one another. Both are orphans who could have easily lived the life of the other if only fate would have wanted it. This is what this is supposed to show us I believe. That in the end matters or circumstances which we cannot control can lead us to do things we might not do otherwise.

There is also the glaring discrepancy between Rose and Nancy in what the 19th century would call a virtuous woman. Rose is one whereas Nancy isn't. While it is actually unclear if Nancy ever did actual sex work for Bill or the thieves' gang she is still Bills lover and not married to him and therefore also not considered virtuous on top of all the other things she has done like stealing.

I am also very much aware that Rose throughout all of this is incredibly charitable, sees only the good in Nancy and that these things are also part of what one would consider a good christian woman in 19th century. So in order to be a good woman and role model Rose would need to display all of those things.

And yet I am also a modern reader living in the 21th century and can see things slightly different and in a way that was most certainly not intended by the author because let's be real here there is something incredibly intimate about holding on to someone else's personal belonging like it is a lifeline shortly before you die.

Nancy holds onto Rose and her handkerchief like it could save her in the end, like it means so much to her that she must pray for mercy with Rose's memory in her hand. It's very sweet and very tragic indeed. You might even be inclined to read even more between these lines.

It's imho also very evident in the way Rose treats Nancy throughout. She constantly tries to help her and get her out of this clearly abusive relationship she in but it's all to no avail as Nancy would not listen to her even though it is clear that she also holds Rose in high reguard.

If only she would have chosen her instead. If only Nancy would have chosen Rose.

It's also mind boggling that the creators of ST choose this book to reference in a jncy fight all while Oliver and Nancy inside the story have no romantic tension whatsoever while the character of Nancy has much more almost romantic tension with a character called Rose.

Then the next season they decide to give Robin a fake alias called Rose.

This is insane and also another one for the "jncy was always bones" pile while ronance was foreshadowed before they even properly met.

It's also very hard to translate some of the aspects of Oliver Twist's Nancy to our Nancy. Personality wise they are not the same at all and neither are they alike in terms of upbringing. Likewise Robin and Rose also don't share a whole lot and certainly not personality. I also fail to see how Jonathan seen from Nancy's POV is anything like Oliver. I mean he was complaining about his dad not being around and Nancy having more financial stability than he has which is something Oliver Twist never did. Complaining I mean. He asked for more food once but he was also forced to to do it by his peers. Other than that he's as good of heart as he could possibly be, always tried to do the right thing and he certainly never complained about people who had more money than he did. As a character I found him rather boring tbh.

But anyway if we are to try to translate the situation or story beats than it might make a little more sense. Nancy never truly abducted Jonathan and led him back to the thieves' gang but there is something which might correspond to it in S2. There she wants to get justice for Barb and because of this they both drive to Murray to get help on what to do. Nancy and her wish for closure are the reason they are there and Jonathan also regrets it later when he's with Will again as he wasn't there for him. (Would that also man that Murray is supposed to be Fagin?)

You'd also really need to hate Nancy to put any blame on her here as her actions are completely understandable. Yet, if we were to look for parallels, it is the one that fits Nancy abducting Oliver the most.

The closest Nancy has ever come to do something she would regret was leaving Barb in favor of being with Steve but again this is hardly blameworthy. She once made a mistake as a teenager which lead to a terrible accident but punishing her for that for her entire life would also be incredibly cruel. Not to mention that she already blames herself and punishes herself for it as seen by Vecna being able to taunt her with Barb in S4 which I must say we also never saw a resolution of. S5 almost completely forgets Barb even exists and there is no mention of Nancy addressing her feelings of grief either. Maybe this is also a clue that something is very amiss with S5.

To an extent I also agree with the theories that the ending is a cover up for something much worse and it might include Nancy dying. We should however also keep in mind that "dying" can also happen in multiple ways. You can lose your life but you can also lose your spirit (which we might have seen with Nancy in the actual ending) or become a shadow of the person you once were.

Nancy's death or the death of her character might manifest itself in something else than a complete loss of life.

Just imagine her as a married woman with kids.

That'd also be the death of Nancy as we know her.

And personally I can easily imagine it happening if she didn't have the courage to tell Jonathan who she really feels in the melting lab. Just a small act of misguided kindness answered by a similar misguided act of kindness by Jonathan might have led to their engagement. Then it leads to marriage, kids while Steve is actually dead.

However, while I do think that there could be worse out there, there might also be better things waiting for them. Like Oliver Twist's Nancy was offered a way out, there might also be one for our Nancy and Jonathan.

While rereading a few scenes from Oliver Twist I also noticed something very interesting about Nancy and the cause of her death which might work as a parallel to our Nancy.

"... and something worse than all—as I have been from my cradle; I may use the word, for the alley and the gutter were mine, as they will be my deathbed.”

Nancy says this and describes the gutters and alleys as her cradle and her deathbed. Or in other words, they are her home and Nancy never had the courage to leave them behind. Maybe as she says when she was younger but not as she is now.

Our Nancy's ability to survive and actually live might also be tied to her willingness to leave home and the things she is familiar with behind. At first until season 5 she seems to be on the right track with wanting to leave for collage but then something might have changed which makes her doubt everything.

In the epilogue Nancy says that she wanted to leave school to get a taste of the real world. The real world being the "Boston Herold" owned by conservative Rupert Murdoch. In other words, a place where she is likely to meet people like the men at the Hawkins paper she worked for as a teenager.

Staying home and not being able to leave it behind might also have this meaning to her. She is familiar with being treated like shit in a work environment and too scared to look for something better or get educated to be able to be in a better place where she is treated better and able to pursue the stories she actually wants to pursue.

Staying home in a worse case scenario could also mean following the path of her mother and become a wife and mother.

There is an escape route though and it's as easy to see as it might be hard to accomplish.

“But what can I do?” said Rose. “To what use can I turn this communication without you? Back! Why do you wish to return to companions you paint in such terrible colours. If you repeat this information to a gentleman whom I can summon in one instant from the next room, you can be consigned to some place of safety without half an hour’s delay.” “I wish to go back,” said the girl. “I must go back, because—how can I tell such things to an innocent lady like you?—because among the men I have told you of, there is one the most desperate among them all that I can’t leave; no—not even to be saved from the life I am leading now.” Chapter XXXIX

Leaving the familiar environment behind is the solution. Accepting the unknown and also accepting that you (or both Nancy's or everyone else in ST) do deserve better an there might be a place out there where you can find true happiness.

Maybe also accepting that they do in fact also deserve to be happy despite what happened and despite the mistakes they've made is also key here.

They need to take the hand which is offered, love themselves more and also ...

Her disposition towards him is already in the negative so when he tries to tell her what to do I am not surprised that she doesn't listen. Especially if this goes against her own instincts or what she wants to do.

It doesn't however end here as we know for sure that there is one person out there who's opinion Nancy values even if it clashes with her own.

Yes, that person is Robin and if she would have tried to keep Nancy from pulling the trigger, Nancy might have listened.

I am fully aware that Robin isn't here in the UD with them but maybe that is part of the problem. Maybe she's in the wrong place and should be here instead of giving Will advise that doesn't even work for her.

If we go back a bit further back and look at the scene where they all decide in what teams to split up into we can safely assume that this would have looked very different if Robin was there with them.

Nancy has a habit of ditching everyone else when Robin is around and that is especially true if it involves quarreling men.

So sticking to the usual teams would have meant Nancy partnering with Robin instead of Jonathan and leaving everyone else to form their own teams.

I do not know if Robin being better off with the UD team also means that someone from the UD team also would be better off being somewhere else but if we were to follow this line of thought then I would suspect it to be Jonathan.

He's the only one who is kind of expendable here and maybe he would also be the right person to speak with Will and give him advise that actually helps him. We know Jonathan and Will to be very close but we don't get to see much of it in this season. In fact Jonathan and Will barely interact at all and that in itself might also be suspicious.

I do believe that instead of discouraging Will from telling Mike the truth of his own feelings like Robin did he might have told him to do the exact opposite especially if he has reasons to be hopeful in regards to his own personal feelings.

During the scene where Steve and Jonathan finally have a talk in S5E8 Steve says something very mysterious. He's basically hinting that time could be saved if only they could have resolved their issues sooner.

Maybe this is a clue that whatever goes on between Jonathan, Nancy and Steve resolved itself too late. Maybe the break-up between Jonathan and Nancy should have happened sooner and maybe Jonathan and Steve also should have been on friendlier terms much sooner.

When exactly? I do not know but I do believe it should have happened before Nancy, Steve and Dustin go into the UD.

We should also keep in mind that Jonathan and Steve being more friendly towards each other didn't start after Steve almost fell to his death.

It starts after Jonathan and Nancy broke up and yes I also believe that Nancy's admission of not being into Steve has a lot to do with it.

Both Nancy and Jonathan were finally free and he also didn't need to be jealous anymore because Nancy does not want to be with Steve. This then enabled Jonathan to look at Steve with different eyes that aren't clouded by pain and jealousy because he finally knew that he wouldn't lose Steve to Nancy if he were no longer with her.

This sentiment is also reflected in the way he treats Steve right after this scene when Steve is helping both Nancy and Jonathan out of the hole. With Nancy it is clear precise movement while with Jonathan it's lingering glances and touches. (I also talked about this scene in much greater detail here)

Steve and Jonathan are on their way to reconnect here and they are also on the right path to accept their own hidden feelings for each other. (This doesn't get resolved in the end we saw but then again nothing gets resolved as they are all conforming.)

So when I say that Jonathan might not have been at the right place with the others in the UD, I don't mean it in the sense that the break-up shouldn't happen. I mean it in the way that it should have happened sooner!

I also think that Jonathan's more positive and hopeful feelings towards Steve are vital for his survival because if we look at the scene on top of the tower we should also notice that Jonathan being there and able to save Steve in time wasn't random or a coicedance.

They were always close, looking out for each other and even touching at times. They both knew where the other was at all time and I think this is why Jonathan could save Steve in the end.

Jonathan is indeed Steve's hero.

As long as he is able to focus on Steve at the end, Steve will survive because Jonathan will be there to save him.

That being said, I also believe that there is a reality out there where Steve does die because Jonathan isn't there to save him.

For this though, we need to go back a bit further in time right back to the scene where Jonathan and Nancy do break up. We also need to assume that everything so far has stayed the same. So Robin also isn't with the UD team.

I already touched upon this in my own multiple endings theory here but the entire break-up scene is filmed very ambiguously. At first I wasn't even sure if it is indeed a break-up or if they decided to stay together despite their differences but by now I think that this is the purpose of this whole scene. It can be seen as both in the way that there is a version of a reality where the break-up didn't happen and Jonathan and Nancy stayed together.

What starts this whole break-up scene is Nancy being honest with Jonathan as she finds the bravery in herself to finally tell him how she really feels about him and the things he loves.

So what would happen if she wouldn't have been as brave?

They both thought they were going to die here and they were also both under the impression that the other loved them. So making up a little lie in order to not hurt the other so shortly before their death might seem like a reasonable option. They might think of it as a white lie without consequences and a kindness to spare the other some heartbreak in their last living moments.

As we all know though, they didn't die. They both survived but by the time the melting stopped they would have fed into the other's believe that they in fact do love the other romantically and reinforced it. Maybe they would have even gotten engaged here thinking that this would make the other happy all while sacrificing their own feelings.

It would leave them with a commitment they don't want but also can't get out of without hurting the other deeply (or so they would think.) So what else would there be to do but stick to it for the time being while also feeling incredibly guilty because of it?

It might have also led them both to try again and focus on the other.

So Jonathan would have had his eyes on Nancy instead of Steve.

This then would have led him to be elsewhere either mentally or physically when Steve needed him.

Steve would have fallen and died.

It might have also gotten hinted at when Murray had this talk with Jonathan in S5E3. I know he is talking about Karen and Ted here but it could also be read as foreshadowing especially if Steve were in the end the one to die. (I also talked a bit about it here.)

The love rival in the jncy love triangle being dead would be such a perfect conclusion for his whole deal as well because Murray in S2 is first hellbent on getting jncy together and then in S5 is also hellbent on jncy getting engaged to each other. In fact he talks about it like he has personal stakes in it because why else would he tell Jonathan to marry Nancy for his own (Murray's) sake? He's overstepping his boundaries big time and I just don't understand why.

Maybe Murray is a villain here. I don't know.

That being said, I don't know anything about Dustin being a time traveler or not but there is one thing I am very sure of when it comes to him.

He has no idea of the inner workings of his friends and doesn't know at all what they truly feel. He also doesn't listen when they try to tell him.

He's a very prominent stbin and stncy shipper inside the show. He assumes they're all straight and if he is indeed a time traveler and is trying to stir everyone in the right direction for a better outcome then he is also wholly misinformed while doing so.

"Your love keeps liftin' me"

"Higher and higher"

It really makes you wonder who's love keeps lifting Steve higher and higher. (Note how it also says "Hawkins HIGH school" right behind Steve; credit to @somethings-wrong-with-nana who noticed this first)

Yeah, Steve is on a high here but I have had doubts before as to who he's really jealous of and why he breaks Jonathan's camera in the first place.

Thing is that if you assume Jonathan and Steve to have a history no one except he two of them knows about then you also have to wonder why Steve is still so hung up about it and I think this song might give us an answer. Their past friendship/ bond probably means a lot to both of them.

"Higher and Higher" also stands in stark contrast to "You Keep Me Hangin’ On" which comes right after it. The first song talks about the uplifting nature of love while the other talks about the suffocating feeling after a break up if your partner is not ready to let go.

Both songs together also raise the question as to what (true) love actually means for Steve's and Jonathan's relaionship.

"'Cause you don't really love me"

"You just keep me hangin' on"

As said I do believe that their feelings for each other are rooted in a genuine connection that once existed between the two them. So in that sense I do believe Steve's love to be real.

However no matter how uplifting their relationship must have been to Steve it wasn't enough to truly enable him to face and overcome any obstacle he would have needed to deal with. His parents, social status, popularity and whatnot were still more important to Steve than his relationship with Jonathan. So in that sense his love wasn't strong enough or rather not real enough.

It was however also not weak enough to make Steve completely let go of Jonathan either.

Meanwhile the actual scene has Steve taking about perverts and what's hardwired into them all while he holds the photos rolled up pointing upwards and towards Jonathan (phallic symbolism.) He also can't keep his hands off of Jonathan. This also says a lot about Steve if you ask me.

While I am on the topic though I also want to mention something else entirely because there is one thing I have wondered about for a while now and I think it might fit right in with the meaning of Kim Wilde's song. (Note however that this song doesn't play during this scene although it does play later when Jonathan, Steve and Nancy fight the Demogorgon and Joyce and Hopper are looking for Will)

[Verse 1] "Darling, you got to let me know Should I stay, or should I go? If you say that you are mine I'll be here till the end of time So you got to let me know Should I stay, or should I go? It's always tease, tease, tease You're happy when I'm on my knees One day it's fine, and next it's black So if you want me off your back Well, come on and let me know Should I stay, or should I go?"

I know "Should I Stay or Should I Go" is intrinsically linked to Will. He even sings it when in the UD and the chorus reflects his situation very well. It also reminds him of his brother as Jonathan has been the one to introduce the song to Will in the first place.

What puzzles me is the meaning of the verses of the song because they speak about a hot-and-cold relationship and someone who might love the singer but is also not fully committed to them.

This doesn't fit Jonathan's and Will's relationship at all because Jonathan has always been warm to Will. There is no doubt whatsoever about his loyalty to his little brother. Likewise Joyce and Mike (in S1 and in S2) are also 100% committed to Will so it is not reflective of their relationship with Will either.

If we however keep in mind that Jonathan knew of the song first and liked it before Will did then we might find our answer there. Also keep in mind that Jonathan by S5 still loves to listen to The Clash. It's one of his favorite bands so it does stand to reason that "Should I Stay Or Should I Go" also holds a special meaning for him.

The verses talk about the singer being ready to 100% commit to someone if this other person were to give them a clear signal that they are also wanted in return. They don't give that signal though so it's tease, tease, tease while the singer is in mental agony on their knees. Sometimes there are good days but it never lasts long before it all turns bad again. It's also never enough for this other person to fully make a decision if they want to be with the singer or not.

"Set me free, why don't you, babe?"

Yeah. I never doubted that Jonathan's and Steve's relationship if it existed in the past was indeed incredibly toxic and went sour because of Steve's inability to fully commit to the person he actually likes.

One last thing though.

It's really interesting, isn't it? The way the speaker mentions their first kiss while we get to see Steve and Jonathan in the alleyway. It's even more interesting that Steve shortly before this happens also mentions how he always thought Jonathan was queer.

It does make sense though. If Steve and Jonathan shared their first kiss with each other then Steve had every reason to believe that Jonathan is indeed a bit queer.

Also: Wow, wow, wow! These are increasable findings. If true they basically confirm so many of my previous theories it's insane. Thank you so much digging into this and making a post out of all of this!

See what I am talking about? Robin doesn't always tell the truth, especially when she wants to accomplish something. She is never malicious about it as she either has very good reasons for doing so (keeping the kids safe and off the boat/ getting an interview with Victor in order to find out more about Vecna) or is just messing with her friends.

This is probably why we never realized how good she actually is at lying. Plus we always had markers to tell us that she wasn't telling the full truth so there was never any doubt about her untruthfulness.

But what if the markers would suddenly cease to exist? Would we as the audience still be able to tell?

Apparently not as I have not seen anyone doubt any of her words whatsoever. That's including me of course because I also had no idea at first (So again shoutout to my anon to bringing this part to my attention)

Once we take a closer look into Robin's speech to Will in the tunnels however we should notice how full of weird discrepancies it actually is. Also remember Robin at Pennhurst? How she convinced the director with a story she made up on the fly? I think there is a case to be made that she tries the exact same thing with Will in S5. Except Will would be even easier to fool than the Pennhurst director and to make matters worse for Will, there is also no one around who could even tell him about Robin's tendency to lie. (Dustin, Steve and Nancy are all far away in the UD)

Robin tells Will that she first fell for Tammy in 9th grade which is already something that should make us raise our eyebrows because this is not the defining moment she names Steve when she is on the floor in the russian base with him. She tells Steve she fell for Tammy in a sophomore history class. This would imply 10th grade.

But there is an even greater and more glaring discrepancy in her story and it's about the moment she reclaimed herself over her feelings for Tammy.

Robin: But then one day, I was cleaning bat shit out of my parents' garage, and I found this 8-millimeter film reel. You know? And it was just from this silly movie that I made in fourth grade, but I got it up on the projector, and all of a sudden, I was looking at this little version of myself. And that little me, I could hardly recognize her. You know, she was so carefree and, like, fearless. She just loved every part of herself. And that's when it hit me. It was never about Tone-deaf Tammy. It was always just about me. I was looking for answers in somebody else, but I had all the answers.

Robin tells Will that she got over Tammy after she found an 8-mm film reel, saw her care-free young self and then finally realized it was all about herself all along.

It's a very inspiring tale of self love.

It's also complete and utter bullshit.

You see, we can actually very accurately pinpoint the moment Robin got over Tammy because we have seen it happening with our very own eyes in S3 when she was in a bathroom stall with Steve. We can say this for sure because if she would have been over Tammy by this point, she wouldn't have talked about Tammy in the way she did.

Robin defended Tammy multiple times during this conversation. When Steve accused Tammy of bad singing Robin disagred with it. When Steve implied that Tammy might be a bit overambitious, Robin defended Tammy again by saying that she has dreams.

If Robin's tale of the 8-mm film she supposedly did as a kid would have been true then she wouldn't have defended Tammy at all. She also wouldn't have sounded as hurt as she did when she told Steve about her crush on Tammy.

Then there is finally the moment when Robin truly got over Tammy. It happened when she joined Steve's laughing because this is most likely the first time she's ever put herself over her feelings for Tammy. She made fun of someone who was once very important to her and now she is finally able to laugh it off with a friend and move on.

This happened right before our eyes. If you don't believe me go and rewatch S3E7. It completely contradicts Robin's story.

Moreover there are still some minor inconsistencies in Robins tale which are not entirely impossible on their own but would require you to do some serious mental gymnastics if you were to take them at face value:

We know Robin is poor and can't drive and yet she finds that 8 mm film reel in her parent's garage (while cleaning out bat shit. Yeah. I am very sure this happened)

She apparently made that movie in 4th grade. That would mean that she was 9 years old at the time. So she as a 9 year old, had access to a camera, knew how to use it and made a movie about herself

While it is unclear how old Robin actually is, she is supposed to be around either Nancy/ Jonathan or Steve. This means that she would have been 9 years somewhere in the mid 70s and look, I'm only taking a guess here but buying a camera plus a projector later (bc of course she and her family are also in possession of that) must have been pretty expensive (especially at that time) and would probably not be your highest priority to get if you are poor

If you are the cameraman/director of a movie, you're also rarely in front of the camera

That being said, Robin's story at first glance still sounds very convincing and that is because it isn't completely false either. There are moments of truth in it but these are not necessarily about Tammy directly. She talks to Will about her true feelings. The entire speech hits hard and is so heartbreaking because Robin in a way is opening up to Will and advises him to do something she herself is also in the process of doing.

It's not about Tammy though. It's about Robin's feelings for someone else and no, it isn't about Vickie either.

Because once you notice how much some parts of Robin's story actually fit Robin's impression of Nancy Wheeler in S4 it becomes hard to ignore.

If you are in a classroom (sophomore history) with someone their hair rarely gets a chance to blow in the wind.

If you see someone standing on an open road during a windy day however ...

Look, I am not saying Robin didn't have a major backlash to her time of being in love with Tammy during her speech but that is because falling for Nancy must have felt very similar to how she fell for Tammy back in the day. To Robin there must have been some very undinable paralells.

It's about her once Nemesis and now best friend: Steve Harrington.

When she was in love with Tammy she was in high spirits at first until she noticed how Tammy wouldn't stop staring at Steve. That is how she concluded that Tammy is in love with him. In S4 she most likely experienced something very similar with Nancy. Robin noticed she started to fall for her but then she also saw Nancy staring very intensely at Steve who at the time was also shirtless. Seen from Robin's POV Nancy was also showing attraction to Steve's very naked and very masculine chest. So of course she must have come to the same conclusion she came to when she was still in love with Tammy. She thinks she's loosing the girl she likes to Steve.

Except this time it's not the same as it was back then because now she can't blame Steve as easily as she could before because he's her best friend now and a person she wouldn't want to hurt or stand in his way to find happiness.

Sounds familiar, right?

If you are into byler you've probably seen very similar sentiments before. Will post S3 wouldn't want to hurt or get in between Mike and Jane because both mean a lot to him and he doesn't want to see them both be hurt or sad.

One of the most common complaints I have seen regarding Robin's advise to Will in this scene is that her love for Tammy and Will's love for Mike aren't comparable at all because the situation is entirely different. I completely agree with this but only if you think Robin is solely talking about Tammy.

Robin has never known Tammy very well but she does know Nancy. Nancy was the one how was impressed by her when she lied at Pennhurst and got them both their interview with Victor. Nancy was also the one wanted to be her friend and then proceeded to choose Robin over and over again all while ditching the guys she's in a love triangle with.

Nancy adores Robin just as she is.

To Robin Nancy is everything Tammy was but leagues better as she's close to Nancy in a way she never was with Tammy.

This is what makes Robin's feelings for Nancy so similar to Will's feelings for Mike. They are both genuine and rooted in a deep connection that makes both Robin and Will feel seen by the other in a way they don't feel seen with anyone else.

Will once lied and used El as a shield to convey his true feelings for Mike. Would it be so unsurprising if Robin were to do something very similar by talking about Tammy when she actually means Nancy?

But why you might ask.

Why would she even fall for Nancy in the first place? Isn't she with Vickie?

Yes she is with Vickie (I will go back to that in a bit) but if we take Tammy who Robin most certainly was in love with at one point as the blue print of the type of woman Robin likes then this trajectory leads us directly to Nancy Wheeler without even the slightest sliver of doubt.

Going by optics alone Tammy mirrors Nancy's S3 style down to a T. Same hairstyle and same make-up (credit to @whiteshoespinklaces who told me about this) but their connection goes way beyond looks. Tammy and Nancy share a lot of very defining character and personality traits as well. I will only give you short bullet points here but you can read this post if you want a more detailed version.

Tammy is ambitious and wants to be a singer/ Nancy is ambitious and wants to be a reporter

Tammy is very confident in her abilities and so is Nancy

Both feel like Hawkins isn't appreciating their talents enough (Is everyone saying that Tammy is a bad singer or not? Yeah I am very well aware that there are some real discrepancies between Tammy's talent for singing and Nancy's talent for writing but this is about how both women perceive and present themselves to the outside world. Also, remember the paper Nancy worked for in S3 and the guys who only laughed at her and her ideas?)

Both want to leave Hawkins and go to a place that recognizes their talents (Tammy wants to go to Nashville while Nancy wants to go collage)

Both women are unwavering in their will to pursue their dreams

If Tammy was the one to set a pattern for Robin then Nancy is the one to fit it best except this time it's different because Nancy isn't some fleeting dream to Robin. Nancy is tangible, her friend and makes Robin feel seen and appreciated in a way that Tammy never did.

So why wouldn't she fall head over heels for Nancy then?

Before I move on though I want to point one thing out and that is how Robin is oftentimes wrong when she assumes things about people. She states it herself. She is bad at picking up on social cues.

Yet she is also basing her entire perception of Tammy, Nancy even later Will and Mike on social clues she isn't able to read well. (How could this not end in disaster?)

I'm gonna start with Tammy here because the only source that she was ever in love with Steve is Robin herself. Why? Because she wouldn't stop staring at him during class. Steve never seemed to have picked up on this though which might be because he's bad at noticing people who really seem to like him or it might be because Tammy was never in love with Steve to begin with. (again thanks to @/somethings-wrong-with-nana for telling me)

During Robin's confession in the bathroom stall she also gives us another perfectly valid reason as to why Tammy could have stared at Steve. Steve while being in class asked stupid questions and got bagel crumbs all over the floor. He was a mess. It's entirely possible that Tammy found herself unable to reconcile the popular and good looking image of Steve with the fact that he's also incredibly messy. So she might not have ben able to stop staring at him but not because she was in love him. She might have stared at him like you sometimes aren't able to take your eyes off of a traffic accident. Too horrific to look away.

Moving on to Robin's view on Nancy's feelings. She knows Nancy has a boyfriend. She also knows Nancy has been with Steve once in the past. Then she sees Nancy staring at a shirtless Steve. To Robin this must confirm that Nancy much like Tammy is straight without a doubt.

Never mind that Robin has no idea of their history, or of Nancy's trauma of losing Barb and that she wouldn't want to lose another friend in the same way. Also never mind that she also couldn't see Nancy's face and see how hard it actually was at the time (and never showed any attraction at all.)

Later Nancy confirms it herself that she isn't interested in Steve (or Jonathan for that matter) but Robin doesn't know that. She just assumes she's either in love with Jonathan (a guy) and if it's not him she's in love with Steve (another guy) with no room left for her.

This then makes Robin think that her chances with Nancy are just as non-existent as they were with Tammy so she does the best thing she can think of and tries to move on by being with someone else.

This "someone else" is Vickie.

There are a few things however that stand out about Robin's relationship with Vickie especially early on. It starts with Robin constantly lying to her and canceling their dates because to me that seems like see would rather not spend a lot of time with her and prefers the company of her other friends.

This is underlined by the fact that Vickie doesn't even know who Will is at the start of the season. We know the Wheelers house to be some sort of a hub and not only does Nancy live there, Jonathan and Will do as well. It's also been a year and a half since the Byers came back from California meaning that Robin would have had plenty of time to try and integrate Vickie into her circle of friends at least as another friend and yet it does not seem like she has done that (because if she did Vickie would have met Will before and would have know who he was.)

On the contrary it rather seems like Robin wants to keep her girlfriend apart from her actual friends who she likes to spend her time with. (Very much like Mike never bringing Jane when he went out with his friends in S3.)

But even if Robin doesn't want to hang out with Vickie she still has something going for her which Robin can't deny. Vickie much like Robin herself is also queer. Therefore it doesn't matter if Robin and Vickie share a meaningful connection or not. Vickie is the safe option for Robin. They're a couple because they both like women and that is it.

It comes as no surprise then that their relationship is almost entirely focused on the physical as well because this is the only value they both can get out of said relationship and in itself this isn't a bad thing at all. If you are queer, want to be sexually active and also live in a small town under quarantine then having someone you can get physical with is huge even if it rings hollow when it comes to emotional connection. (Even though in the end it's also incredibly unfair as Robin and Vickie are not on the same page when it comes to their relationship. Vickie also deserves to be treated better)

Up until this point though Robin is dealing with her own shit (longing for Nancy while being with Vickie) and that is sad and heartbreaking on it's own but it gets so much worse when this stops being solely about Robin and how she deals with her problems.

This is then also finally the part where I talk about Robin's motive as to why she is lying to Will in the first place. Yes, I know I have rambled long and hard about Robin's relationship with Vickie but it is vital to understand why Robin acts like she does towards Will in S5.

So what's her deal? Why is she lying to Will?

I do believe that Robin thinks herself and Will to be in the same situation. She is in love with Nancy but thinks she has no chance as she believes Nancy to be straight. Likewise she also picked up (correctly this time) on Will's love for Mike but she also believes Will won't ever have a chance with Mike as she also perceives him to be straight as he has a girlfriend.

So she tries to help Will in the best way she can because remember: Robin is not a malicious liar. It was always harmless teasing or she had a very good reason for lying and I don't think it's any different here.

Robin is trying to spare Will the same heartbreak she is currently suffering: being in love with a friend who you think could never love you back because you believe them to be straight. She is wrong of course. Mike does love Will back but I don't think Robin picked up on that. Much like she never picked up on Nancy not loving Steve (or Jonathan) and possibly Tammy not loving Steve either.

Then she moves on to try and impose her own way of dealing with things onto Will. She's trying to let him find confidence in himself by making up a story about self love and then later tries to stir him into the same direction she's also moving towards to with Vickie.

She wants him to avoid the risk of telling Mike about his true feelings, look for a safer option instead and for that purpose she also describes her relationship with Vickie as much more positive than it actually is.

And Will believes her every word because of course he does. The audience does it as well. Robin has also successfully fooled Steve, Eddie, Dustin (twice!) and the director of Pennhurst. If none of these ever directly picked up on her lies then Will isn't going to do it either. He's also much more gullible than any of them and doesn't even know about Robin's lying tendencies in the first place.

She's so good at convincing Will that he not only listens to her advise of forgetting Mike, he also later searches for his very own safe option in a gay bar which is where he's sure to find other people like him. So he never has to try and confront his feelings for real and risk them being rejected (or reciprocated.) Robin has protected him from both.

He's satisfied as he can finally be open with his queerness but he isn't entirely happy either.

And that's a thing that is true for everyone in this show. Everyone is satisfied but no one is truly happy because everyone chooses the safe route in the end instead of risking anything at all.

They are all conforming as no one seems to be able to open their mouth and say what they actually want.