strange anni

Currently I'm doing mostly stonathan and anti jncy/anti stncy analysis posts

Disclaimer: While I do not like either stncy or jncy (saying it as a former shipper of the latter) I do like and respect all the characters individually.

The subtle queercoding of the stncy "study" scene in 1x01 + follow up (It's all about Steve/Jonathan and Nancy/Barb) and what became of the dog plushie afterwards (anti jncy) + the entire journey of the dog plush

Steve and Jonathan might have a shared past no one except the two knows about and some more evidence

Jonathan expecting Nancy to visit him in California (and Steve being the one who would have actually done it if he were in Nancys position)

What Jonathan truly wants and needs (Nancy could never give him any of it) and how he projects it onto Nancy + addition 1

What Steve truly wants (it isn't Robin obviously but it isn't Nancy either)

The "starring lady" of Jonathan's photos in S1 is Steve Harrington (based on a theory by @anime97-99)

The alleyway scene and Nancy as the one Steve is actually jealous of. It gets revealed in how Steve never makes his provocations about Jonathan stealing his girlfriend

"Only love makes you crazy" doesn't work for jncy

When words don't meet actions - how the Demogorgon fight reveals Steve as the one Jonathan is actually interested in

Steve's not-present of the camera in S1 and how it works as symbol of selfless love + Addition 1

Jonathan's attempt to reconnect with Steve (S2) and how Tina's party reveals Jonathan's desire to do it with Steve through symbolism

About the infamous Murray scene + part 2 (and how he tricked Nancy and Jonathan to conform to his wishes) and how Murray still managed to uncover Jonathans true feelings + Addition 1 and more summarized proof

The true build up of jncy in Season 2 and a more thorough explanation for the role Owens, the receptionist lady and Murray played in it <- Nancy and Jonathan are conforming to the expectations of total strangers

The biggest lesson of Steve's life is loving selflessly and showing respect for the feelings of others

Steve sending Nancy to be with Jonathan in S2 and how it works as another symbol of selfless love for Jonathan

Being benched - how Steves spy mission with Dustin shows us ho he really feels in S3 and how it's still relevant in early S4 (It's all about Steve feeling guilty for what he's done)

Steve's attempt to reconnect with Jonathan in S3 and in S4. + Addition 1 and how he parallels Mike Wheeler

Weeds, safety and Steve (possible S5 stonathan foreshadowing) and my prediction on how it might play out in S5

The subtleties of stonathan (an attempt at portraying a time line from S1 up until S4)

The disappearance of Nancy Wheeler (When she's with Jonathan and Steve, she seems to disappear quite often)

Jncy is as incompatible as Barbie and He-Man (anti jncy)

Nancy and Jonathan can only find their fulfillment in different spheres of life (domestic vs. worldly spheres of life)

Fighting for and against safety (why S3 jncy doesn't understand each other)

Shared trauma as another reason as to why jncy doesn't work

Why Season 4 suddenly decided to bring stncy back (Spoiler: It didn't)

Why it's very easy to prefer stncy over jncy (although by S4 they are basically the same) and some more evidence

Jncy paralleling Lonnie Byers

Jncy ends on a broken promise

Robin's type and why Tammy Thompson represents a failed Nancy Wheeler (ronance!)

How Robin could help Nancy process her grief in S5 (more ronance!)

Why I stopped shipping jncy

Some more small-ish mostly Steve-centric posts

Steve "The Hair" Harrington

Roses for Mr. Wheeler?

Jonathan beating up Steve doesn't count?

What happens when Steve is busy with spycraft? (and how it parallels Mike Wheeler in Season 4)

Steve Harrington and Mike Wheeler begging for forgiveness

Nancy and Jonathan cannot stay true to themselves while being in a relationship

Steve is so a virgin - Did stncy not do it after all in S1?

Nancy needs a challenge, not a yes-man (ronance)

How it looks like Nancy is kissing a girl at Tina's party

The club of mismatch makers

If you want to read more stonathan analysis posts I recommend checking out my wonderful mutual @bylerlipglances and their posts HERE

You can also check out #my meta #my posts and #asks for more of my posts

S1: Steve is an ass

S3: Nancy is an ass

S5: Jonathan is an ass

Maybe it is a bit like the saying goes: If you don't love them at their worst, you don't deserve them at their best.

i used to like jancy. i saw it happening. i didnt look deep at all. they appeared cute and i liked them individually as characters, so hey, why wouldnt they be together?

and then i discovered stonathan and i LOVED it. perfect couple, insane chemistry. great. im a multishipper so jancy was fine to me, i could ignore it and agree that they were also good if someone brought it up.

but then... you.

i read your posts. i started to see that stonathan went so much deeper than i thought. this was a delight. it was beautiful. i felt like i couldnt stop winning, life was good, i felt on top of the world..

what i didnt know is the there was resentment brewing, because i was also understanding jancys flaws, an eye opener for me (despite how blatant it seems in hindsight). but everything was still fine.

its not like jancy is as bad as mileven, right???

bruh. i literally.. after reading your entire post breaking down jancy, reblogs and all (you know the one)

i can no longer stand jancy. i am a decent person so i keep opinions to myself. but... but i have all this knowledge now. this knowledge of why jancy doesnt work and stonathan does and i.. i cant do anything with it. im helpless. jancy haunts me.

and its crazy because they would literally be so good as friends. like platonic stobin. but no.. forced to pretend to love each other. damn

so anyway the ask is am i just taking this way too seriously? and how do you cope with the burden of this knowledge?

especially when someone brings up their love for jancy... THEY DONT KNOW WHAT WE KNOW!!!! or they do?? and dont care??? help

steve, this is also how i feel when i see jancy now. depression and yearning for jonathan byers (truth nuke)

also crazy that the fandom glorifies jancy in their mind, just like steve does LOL

Your story seems very similar to mine except I was even worse.

I also loved jncy once. I thought I could never say anything bad about them whatsoever because of perfect there were for each other, how well they could help each other out. I thought much like Robin in S4 that they were the power couple everyone should aspire to be. I thought there is no nonsense between Jonathan and Nancy as they are both mature and trusted each other enough that their storylines throughout the seasons don't need the constant reinforcement of feelings or reliance on each other like all the other couples seem to do.

Look if you feel like you've been delusional before know that I was also like that. I even tried to look for fics for them once but then ended up realizing that most of what I could find just listed them as a side couple to byler which ultimately made me stop looking.

Then I also started to like stonathan and felt so bad about it because how could I do this to jncy? Finally a straight couple that has chemistry and is so incredibly well written and all I could think about is pairing them up with other people (Or just Jonathan with Steve at first. Ronance came later.)

I even felt bad when there was a jncy break-up in a stonathan fic I was reading. It literally hurt my soul at first despite me usually being a multishipper and being able to deal with this.

So yeah. I've also been there. I know where you are coming from.

Then like you I also started to take stonathan seriously as a potential canon ship back in April last year after @bylerlipglances showed me their findings. What changed me was the fact that I knew bylers would eat all this evidence up if it would have been about their ship and I just thought that if it would have been true for byler, why would it not be true for any another ship? Get what I am trying to say? Just because all of it isn't directly about byler (but stonathan instead) doesn't mean that it's meaningless.

Then I also started to look at jncy more. In particular Nancy's behavior towards Jonathan in S3 and it felt like I was hit by a ton of bricks. The way I purposefully avoided to take all of their toxicity seriously just because I wanted to believe in them as couple shocked me.

Because the only kind of criticism I saw up until this point were some people saying how the narrative in S3 should have sided sided more with Jonathan during jncy's big fight as he also has some valid points in needing the job to pay for collage. From todays standpoint I wouldn't even say that the narrative sides with Nancy at all. It sides with their relationship. Everything the narrative does helps Jonathan and Nancy stay together regardless of it means for their characters individually.

I have however never seen anyone talk about the way Nancy actually treats Jonathan.

The way she knowingly destroyed his photos three times(!) or how she is ready to wreck his car just to be at work on time or how she doesn't listen to Jonathan at all. No one ever mentioned this and it also kinda deserves to be discussed as a topic separate from their conflict because no matter if Nancy was right or wrong she never had the right to treat him that way.

But looking at it now I feel it's also important to keep in mind that Nancy usually isn't like this. I think her behavior should still be addressed but also not blown out of proportion. She was in a really bad state in S3. Just like Steve was in a bad state in S1 and Jonathan in S5.

But anyway, how do I cope with it? I honestly don't know. After I felt so overwhelmed by all the stonathan content that is in the show but also gets heavily overlooked by pretty much everyone I just tried to get the word out as much as possible while still being respectful to everyone as I also didn't and still don't want to hurt anyone who likes the ship.

Let me tell you though it was also a pretty isolating experience at first (only at first though because I also met some really great people who discussed things with me, told me their thoughts or just left awesome tags under my posts; much love goes out to all of you!) because people who followed me for byler rarely engaged with my content anymore (which is completely fair tbh; I don't blame anyone) but also because last year pre S5 also wasn't a huge time for stonathan.

And yeah, I am with you. I also can't stand jncy anymore. To me it's up there with mlvn and rvickie. None of these really work. They all have similar problems and they are all the safe option to a more risky choice all involved characters aren't willing to take.

Jncy in the end broke up and yes you can consider it an act bravery on Nancy's and Jonathan's part and I am not going to dismiss that but here is the kicker: It was necessary to save their relationship. If it would not have happened Nancy and Jonathan would have started to hate each other sooner rather than later. During the break-up scene we already see them admitting to having done petty things to in order to hurt the other. As of this moment Jonathan still felt bad about doing it. If their relationship would have continued there would have come a time where he would have no longer felt guilty about things like giving Nancy's stuff away. Instead hurting Nancy like this might have become one of the few sources of (cruel) joy he would have had in his life and the same would be true for Nancy. It wouldn't just have poisoned their relationship, it would have also turned them both into very ugly and spiteful people.

I am so so so glad their break-up prevented this from happeing.

That being said, their break-up didn't necessarily make them happy either. It just got them into a position from where they could have gone for happiness but in the end did not. Much like everyone else in the show they also choose satisfaction over true happiness.

Their break-up only prevented them from living a life of unhappiness. In fact it was more than necessary for them both to even get a chance to live somewhat normal lives that at least satisfy them. That tbh is such a huge thing to me like you would not believe.

Jonathan's and Nancy's relationship was so toxic that it had to be broken up in order for them both to not turn into complete assholes. Both can't even reach a basic feeling of satisfaction in their own life if they are together and yeah ... it's not a very popular opinion to have.

Most people don't see it like this. They think jncy breaking up comes out of nowhere but it's actually one of the very few things the show correctly foreshadowed since S2. Ever since jncy's first kiss.

Jonathan and Nanccy would have been better off as friends indeed. Friends who can support each other and uplift one another when they need it because then they could also engage with one other in a way where they don't need to scale back on their own personality or compromise on things they hold so dear.

They did went through a lot together and there is meaning to that. They could be platonic soulmates like stobin but wouldn't hang out as much as stobin does because jncy also bores tf out of each other.

They dislike what the other likes. They could never listen to music together and just enjoy the moment because Nancy hates Jonathan's music. (She only mentioned "The Clash" but I am pretty sure it goes further than that.) They both seem to love reading but again their taste in books is so different that they aren't willing to engage with the other's favorite book either. So starting a book club together is also out of the question. They can't even get high/ drunk together and have fun because they also disapprove of the other's favorite method of escaping from reality.

It is really no wonder they haven't spend much time together after S1 because there isn't really much they could do that is fun to them both.

I honestly don't know if you're taking this too seriously though. Bylers however are also sometimes pretty obsessed with mlvn and with taking their relationship apart. If you don't think that they're overdoing it, you're not overdoing it either and tbh not a lot of people are even saying anything against jncy. Most of the people who do are stncys and then there is me. It was admittedly kinda amusing looking through the anti jncy tag sometimes and seeing myself there surrounded by stncys who I also do not agree with.

Thing is while stncy is also pretty bad, people in general are at least aware of it and talk about it sometimes. I also agree with most of their criticism which then in turn also means that I don't have to talk about them as much. Jncy on the other hand is the one ship you feel like you shouldn't touch or criticize. The right choice next to a wrong one while they are in fact more like a choice between pest and cholera.

But yeah, how to cope with it? I tried to get the word out as much as possible but my blog is also pretty heavily focused on analysis anyway so that is an easy thing for me to do. Other than that you can talk about it to people who you think are willing to listen or keep it all to yourself. Or find yourself some likeminded people. You will however not be able to convince the masses.

I think most of the jncys don't know how bad they are as a ship. They just think of jncy like I (and you as well) did. Pretty cool and loving couple. Also better than stncy.

It's an experience like we're watching two different shows. (Although I am pretty sure that they feel exactly the same should they stumble upon my posts.)

Let me give you an example.

A while ago netflix released some new S3 posters and someone here on tumblr made a post about the one from the second episode as it featured Jonathan and Nancy. You can see the poster on netflix official instagram here. I am not going to name the op who made the post over here and I am also not going to link it. I want them to be left alone.

What I am going to say also isn't directly about op either, it's more about all the positive comments it got. Like people were happy they got jncy content which is fair if you feel like you're starved and you like the ship. No one however seemed to take an issue with the content shown to us which I find very curious since in terms of jncy ship representation netflix couldn't have chosen worse. (This though probably wasn't there goal anyway and overall it's still a good picture representing the episode)

People really do not realize what they're doing because if they would or had half a mind about taking their issues seriously then they wouldn't have been so happy about said poster.

The scene it is referencing shows us Jonathan noticing that there is something wrong with the rat. Then he tries to tell Nancy about it. She however does not listen to him at all and instead storms out of the cellar as she wants to follow her own lead. Jonathan then quickly follows. Just after that the rat turns into meaty goo.

If Nancy would have listened to Jonathan aka the person she is supposed to love and trust then her whole investigation could have been cut short because Jonathan was right. There was something wrong with the rat and they would have seen it if only they would have stayed a little longer. Likewise if Jonathan would have been more insistent on making Nancy stay and look at the rat instead of blindly following her, Nancy would have also gotten her proof much sooner.

See, what I am trying to say here? If jncy would have worked better as a couple or even as a team then their whole investigation could have been cut short. They did not work well together though so they had to go the long route instead.

It matters so much because it shows us what Jonathan and Nancy's relationship is like when it is just about them as people. No loved ones to be saved or to get justice for. No UD. Just real life which in the end should not be overlooked since Jonathan and Nancy have no aspiration to be monster hunters for life or want to see their loved ones in constant danger (Note that by S5 even the latter doesn't help them anymore)

This scene is so emblematic for what is wrong with Jonathan and Nancy in S3. Nancy doesn't listen and only does what she wants. Meanwhile Jonathan follows her every step without much protest even though he doesn't really want to. (Remember though that Nancy overall wasn't at her best in S3)

This isn't couple goals. It's couple failure all across the board and people do not realize this at all. Otherwise they wouldn't have been so happy about said poster or would have at the very least mentioned that there might be something undesirable here.

The jncy glorification goes hard and so many people are just unwilling to see how deep their issues go. This then inevitably lead to a lot of disappointment after S5 and their break-up which they had coming since at least S3 if not S2.

Nancy chooses Robin when she can which should also tell us something. The way Jonathan who is one of the most empathetic characters in the whole series can not even begin to give a f about Nancy and what's going on inside her in S5 should also tell us something. And no their avoidance of each other isn't because Vecna is pulling them apart. It's because they were both pressured into being a couple and cursed with loving each other in a way that holds no truth to them as characters and they are both so done with it.

All this glorification in the show also comes with so much pressure. imagine being Nancy and then being told that you and your boyfriend are a power couple but you hardly feel it and are instead kinda happy that said boyfriend isn't with you right now and you're also a bit angry at him since you suspect he's been lying but you cannot tell for sure.

Or imagine being Jonathan when everyone expects you to go to a collage you do not want to go to with your perfect girlfriend who you don't really miss at all even though you haven't seen her in a long time.

The conforming goes so hard with jncy it's not even funny but everyone is just unable to so it.

Their entire relationship could be a very interesting study of a couple who was doomed from the start and then had to stay together due to circumstances and expectations of others. Too bad that so few people see them that way.

Quite frankly I don't trust them but that's only because I don't trust anything that is presented to us as a surface level truth and jpper is one of those couples the narrative wants us to believe in.

You see I do a very deep reading of the characters I usually write about on this blog (Jonathan, Steve, Nancy and Robin) and a lot of what I say won't make any sense to anyone who isn't familiar with the characters. Hell, even if people are familiar with them and love them my theories are oftentimes still not to their taste.

Thing is that I feel like I can only write about these characters because I tend to read them that deeply but I also cannot apply the same deep reading to every other character which is also why you rarely see me mentioning anyone who isn't Jonathan, Steve, Nancy or Robin let alone see me making posts about them.

While I cannot read everyone else as deeply every character certainly does deserve to be closely looked at. So I will leave that to people who are better equipped for it (i.e. not me.)

So in the end I do not trust in jpper but can't give you any deeper analysis here. I will say though that they do seem like a nice couple at times but hey so does jncy and one look at my blog should tell you how I feel about them.

In S3, Robin seems to know who Nancy is, as she calls her a priss after Steve says she used to be in love with her. Nancy seemingly doesn't know who Robin is, as she asks her who she is in S3. However, I've heard that Robin apparently mentions in Rebel Robin that she was friends with Barb as a kid. So, if you consider this canon, it's weird that Nancy wouldn't know who Robin is. And even if the book isn't canon, it's still odd that Nancy, who wants to be an investigative journalist and generally seems observant, doesn't know a girl her own age when they live in a small town. So, maybe Nancy was only pretending not to know her.

If you consider Rebel Robin canon, maybe Nancy had something to do with why Robin and Barb stopped being friends. Maybe Nancy's initial hostility/ coldness to Robin in S4 is actually related to Barb and not Steve.

Thank you so much for the question but I must admit I am not sure if I am the right person to answer it as I haven't read the book either. There are a few things I heard about is as well but I have no idea about the actual context which of course could change everything.

I have also heard that Robin was friends with Barb pre-show and apparently (or so I remember) Barb also left Robin behind to be friends with Nancy instead. I have however no idea how it happened or for what reason. It seems like a mean thing to do though and might also explain why Robin at first holds some animosity towards Nancy and calls her a priss.

It might also be that Nancy's reputation as the school's princess and most popular girl precedes her. This could also be a reason as to why Robin calls her priss as she might have been prejudiced against Nancy because of it and thought of her as a the good girl/ middle to upper class popular girl in high school who looks down on people like Robin. (Robin possibly blaming Nancy for Barb leaving her would only make it worse I assume)

It's also possible that because Nancy's reputation precedes her more people at school know her then the other way around which would explain why Robin knows her but Nancy doesn't.

That being said if Barb really was friends with Robin before and then left her for Nancy it would be odd if Nancy wouldn't know her at all. She doesn't even seem to know who she is though as Robin also had to give her context for it and for this she used Steve which is quite interesting given that the first and quite possibly more emotionally charged relationship that connects her with Nancy is Barb. (Although it is also possible that Robin doesn't want to bring it up right now as it's a hectic situation and mentioning Barb would also bring some emotional trauma to the forefront which no one would want to deal with right now)

They could have changed Nancy's line and made it more obvious that she does know Robin if they wanted to though. Maybe they could have changed it to "And you are ...?" which would have implied that Nancy knows Robin but either forgot or doesn't know her name which would be a lot more realistic. They didn't do that though and I don't know why.

That also makes it possible that Nancy was only pretending to not know Robin but I don't see what her motive would be. Why would she do that? Why would she want everyone to think that she doesn't know Robin? Like I said it is a very hectic situation and no one would have noticed if Nancy simply wouldn't have said anything at all. Nancy outright asking who Robin is also brings attention to the fact that she doesn't know who Robin is.

In the end I absolutely cannot be sure though because as said I have no idea about the actual context or if Barb really ditched Robin to be friends with Nancy.

If anyone else wants to chime in here and clarify the situation for anon and for me I would be very happy to reblog you.

There is however an explanation as to why Nancy is a bit hostile towards Robin at the beginning of S4 and it does have to do with Barb. Someone who since deactivated their account made some great points and you can still read them here (in my reblog.) Basically Nancy was just reminded of Barb's death not so long ago. Plus she also lost Fred who was much like Robin at the library on a mission with Nancy to investigate some stuff. They however both died while they were in Nancy's proximity.

For me, it's even more revealing that Nancy was both their Tammy and that it was finally time to move on (and find each other)

I think Jonathan is 100% ready in 1989, he asked not once, but twice Steve to come to NY... Steve might not be ready though (given his own delusions about Kristen).

Thank you so much for the question!

Before I really start answering though I must say that my interpretation of what Tammy actually means differs from what is more commonly believed. They say that Tammy is someone you met earlier in your life and who you (unrequitedly) fell in love with but then also leave behind for someone better, right?

Well, I don't think it is that easy. As @ms-anne-xia has pointed out to me in these two asks it really looks like Robin is still more in love with Tammy than she's with Vickie and I believe there is a reason for it. She may be over Tammy at the point where she talks to Will about her but she also isn't solely talking about Tammy either. She is talking about Nancy who is very similar to Tammy in terms of looks and basic character traits. (You can also read my theory here if you want a more in depth version of of this whole scene between Robin and Will)

This to me also changes the meaning of Tammy or what it's like to be one's Tammy. It seems more like a past love that still holds relevance to the present. Like Robin being over Tammy but still being in love with someone who is a lot like her (Nancy.) Or you can also take byler into account. Will is not over Mike. He's not just some distant figure from the past. Will is still very much in love with Mike.

Soo, you may be wondering why I am telling you all of this, right?

Because it also carries relevance for the stonathan scene and no, it is not about Nancy. I do wonder if the Tammy song during this scene is actually about Steve and Jonathan themselves instead of Nancy. I have made several posts in the past talking about how it is possible that Steve and Jonathan have a shared past/ were friends once who may have also developed feelings for one another. You can check out my pinned post for them as well because going over this entire theory here would be too much to do.

That being said Steve's and Jonathan's conversation is actually really interesting and before I go into it I want to remind you of what happened before on the tower and the moment when Steve's and Jonathan's relationship actually started to get better.

If you compare the way Steve helps Nancy out of the hole in the lab with how he helps Jonathan you'll notice a stark difference. With Nancy it is straight to the point. Precise action and movement. No lingering whatsoever. With Jonathan it looks quite different. He touches Steve when he doesn't have to and the whole ordeal also takes much longer because apparently Steve and Jonathan also need time to hold hands for a bit.

Then on the tower there is a constant theme of them looking out for each other. They are constantly aware of where the other is and even touch the other sometimes. Both are ready to be there and help the other should they need it. We see this very clearly with Jonathan being there on time to save Steve but Steve throughout this scene also helps to keep Jonathan save when the platform is shaking and he is standing in the middle while Steve as a better grip on the railing. All of this happens while Nancy is very close to them both.

Keeping all of this mind it is quite interesting that one of the first things Jonathan says to Steve during this conversation is that he may not like him but doesn't want him dead because this is not how it looked like to me before. In fact if he treated Steve like he doesn't like him then I do have to wonder what this means for his treatment of Nancy on the tower.

No, I do believe there is something underlying happening here and it may not reveal itself if you take the whole conversation at face value but it is also important to keep in mind that both Jonathan and Steve do assume that the other has been or still is in love with Nancy.

Jonathan may think that Steve was there for Nancy during S4 but he's also wrong with his assumption. Robin was there for Nancy. Not Steve. If he feels like Nancy distanced herself after his return (and he isn't wrong in assuming that) then it was not because of Steve. It was because of Robin. He would never even think that though and maybe Nancy also never would have corrected him by saying it's about Robin instead of Steve.

Jonathan also knows that Nancy's distancing isn't the only reason why things have been off between them for a very long time now. For starters he never mentions Steve to Argyle in the desert. In fact he's so convinced that Nancy loves him above all else that he believes she's ready to let go of her dreams just to become his wife and mother of his children.

Likewise during S3 Jonathan knows their conflict was about money and the way Nancy's ambition stood in contrast to his desire to support his family. Steve wasn't even within viewing distance of their storyline and had nothing to do with it either and Jonathan should know that very well.

You might also want to keep in mind that while Nancy was distancing herself from Jonathan, Jonathan also did his utmost to stay out of Nancy's proximity. He also avoided her as much as possible which is odd if he really believed that she might leave him for Steve. Instead it was he himself who paid the most and closest attention to Steve and everything he did.

This also isn't what happened. Jonathan was also ready to let Nancy go during S4. He told Argyle how he's ready to let their relationship fizzle out because he doesn't want to confront her. In fact there are multiple times throughout all the story where Nancy's and Jonathan's relationship seemed like it might not last much longer but then something always happened to bring them back together. Their entire relationship history consists of fix-it after fix-it after fix-it.

In fact Steve played a huge role as to why jncy became a couple in the first place.

Then you have Steve saying that he knows he and Nancy were never really in the cards. He's also known for a while. This I do believe to be true as I cannot see much of romantic tension between Steve and Nancy at all throughout S5. It does raise at least one question though: Why was he so eager to climb the tower in 05x01? I am honestly not sure here. It could be because out of everyone present he's undeniably the most athletic and climbing the tower would be an easy way for him to get recognition which is what he longs for and is also part of his overall storyline this season anyway. Or he could also do it to impress Jonathan (a theory some people have) or it could be because he knows if he does something like this he'd get Jonathan's attention and he likes to have Jonathan's attention on him.

A thing which he probably feels bad about later during the van scene as he then tells Jonathan to stop focusing on him – funny thing when he's the one to provoke it in the first place – and start focusing on Nancy. After this conversation though there isn't really any attempt (not even one you could read as such) to provoke Jonathan. Unless of course you count normal conversation which Jonathan does but you should not.

(Note that this might also fit into what I call the biggest lesson of Steve's life and is about how he changed after S1. He had to stop loving other people selfishly and instead had to learn to put their needs before his own. So in our present case it means that he needed to stop provoking Jonathan even if he likes having his attention as it damages his relationship with Nancy and Jonathan's need to be happy with Nancy (or so Steve thinks) outweighs his own need to have Jonathan's attention on him)

Next we finally get a real and truthful assessment of the situation between Steve and Nancy. He wants kids which stands in contrast to Nancy's plans. His own wishes for his future would hold Nancy back which is part of the reason why they are incompatible. There is not a lot to say about this but maybe all the more about how Jonathan reacts to it.

In stark contrast to Nancy's nightmare vision of being a mother of 6 (or 4) Jonathan doesn't really reject Steve's idea. In fact, all we get is some mild criticism as he doesn't seem to agree with Steve calling children nuggets. This is also telling and might reveal to us that Jonathan himself isn't as turned off by the idea of having children as part of future as many people do believe.

The very fact that he thought Nancy would leave everything behind to become his wife and mother of his children supports it as well and tells us way more about Jonathan than about Nancy. It is very much possible that he is projecting his own wishes onto Nancy.

That being said he probably likes the idea of becoming a parent sometime in the future and he might like it all the more that Steve seems to share his dream.

Ah yes. The one declaration of true love a guy can make about the girl he loves above all else. "She's special." Jonathan, Steve (and Mike) do all agree on this. The girl they love is special while they never say what actually makes her special. Steve actually gets to be the one to be a bit more specific here because he already said about Nancy that she's independent and has to go her own way.

The thing about this is though that her being special or why Nancy is special to him is also a very important reason as to why Steve and Nancy would never fit. Same goes for Jonathan btw. I know he has a whole rant in S4 with Argyle about why he loves Nancy but just like with Steve these are the very reasons why he can't be with Nancy either. Steve/ Jonathan and Nancy are just too different to ever work as a couple. If she's independent and has to get out there she cannot be held back by responsibilities such as having to take care of children.

At the end of this conversation we get another reminder that Jonathan doesn't like Steve just as we are also getting confirmation that Steve would not want it any other way. This is very interesting because as said before Jonathan after his break-up with Nancy never really acted like he doesn't like Steve. There is also more to it because “not liking the other” and “not wanting to be liked by the other” might take on a whole new meaning if you compare it to the two people who undeniably like Steve.

I am talking about Robin and Nancy. Both have made a point that they actually do like Steve a lot and both have also made a point that they don't have any romantic interest in Steve.

Jonathan however is unlike those two. Maybe he really doesn't like Steve like Robin and Nancy do. Maybe “like” doesn't capture the entirety of everything he feels for Steve and maybe Steve also doesn't want to be liked by Jonathan in the same way that he is liked by Robin and Nancy.

Robin then hits the nail on the head when she teasingly calls them lovebirds because this is what I believe to be actually going on between these two. Do not however assume that they will be explicit about their feelings in this conversation or later during the epilogue. They are both still very much conforming but this whole conversation between Jonathan and Steve hints at what could have been if they both had the courage to go after what they actually want. (being together, a happy future and possibly children further down the line)

This is also where I want to bring in the meaning of the “Tammy” song for this conversation because I do believe it is reflective to the feelings they have had for each other possibly going as far back as before the show even started. Then they went on their respective journeys and could throughout all of it never really forget one another although they both really tried to.

It's a song reflecting lingering feelings from the past that still hold relevance today and I believe it holds the same meaning for Jonathan and Steve as it does for Will and Robin. They are all not over their Tammy. They are all very much in love with their Tammy (or in Robin's case the one who is very similar to Tammy) but no one is going to do anything about as apparently conforming is much more important.

That is the bittersweet truth behind it. At least according to my interpretation.

Lastly I want to address the last thing you said because I do agree with you here. Jonathan does want Steve to be with him. He tells him so two times. For Steve though it might not be as easy.

My interpretation of the ending also plays a role here as I do in fact believe it to be some kind of Vecna vision that is keeping everyone trapped by making them satisfied. They are not unhappy with the state they are in but they aren't truly happy with it either. They accept their fate if you want to think about it in terms of Max's three doors of fate. (also check out @anime97-99 theory about it here) In fact, I believe it is the satisfaction which keeps them in there and the lack of courage to actually go for what they really want.

What is also important to keep in mind is that they aren't truly unhappy either and this also works as a trap to keep everyone exactly where they are. If you have ever thought “At least it's not as bad as it could have been and then found yourself satisfied with the situation you are currently in although you know it could have also been better” you might understand what I am trying to say here.

This is especially important when it comes to Steve and his ending. I do believe he also wants to be with Jonathan but there is something that keeps him from following his wishes.

It's not any of the women he mentions though. It's fear (knowingly or unknowingly) of what fate would await him outside of this Vecna vision he's currently in or if he even has any fate outside of it at all.

He almost died once and Jonathan was the one to save him. This happened because Jonathan throughout all this tower sequence paid very close attention to him. Jonathan could do this because breaking up with Nancy freed him of his jealousy (of Nancy as he hated seeing Steve pay attention to her) and he was finally able to pay attention to Steve is a way that is reflective of his true feelings for him.

Steve however might not be aware of any of this. He might think that reality or what goes on outside of this vision they are currently in (if he even knows there is a reality outside as it could just as well be some vague fear he holds deep inside) consists of Jonathan and Nancy being a happy couple. A happy Jonathan who might not have paid as much attention to him on the tower which then would have lead him to fall to his death for real. Or in other words he might not believe that he would still exist outside this vision as he believes he might already be dead out there.

What he doesn't know is that there isn't a happy reality where Jonathan and Nancy are a couple and he's dead. If anything it'd be a nightmare scenario for everyone involved. Happiness as a couple is out of the question for Jonathan and Nancy either way and Steve being dead would have made it all the worse.

What he really needs to do is to start putting trust in Jonathan and himself. He needs to overcome his fear and and accept that Jonathan's happiness can and does include him and that the feeling is mutual. He needs to realize that Nancy for him and for Jonathan is not the key to happiness but that they themselves are.

And courage of course! He needs a whole bunch of courage to finally break free of this bullshit just like everyone else does because Steve isn't the only one who is conforming either. Everyone is. They're all satisfied instead of happy. They're all choosing safety over risk and this in the end leads to them living their lives in patterns that are very familiar to them but don't challenge them at all.

Link to anon's previous ask.

You're very welcome!

I was also really excited to find your ask in my inbox but then also had to take a few days to think about it and prepare an answer. I'm also really glad that to don't seem to be disappointed with me taking so much time.

I think partway through I realized I don't even know what you had in mind when you talked about some jncy scenes being corrupted ronance scenes because as said it's not so easy that you could just replace them and then everything is fine (imho.) I also don't think they are secretly a coupe and the narrative just overwrote it with jncy.

Instead I do believe that that the narrative deliberately keeps them apart. Or deliberately tries to keep jncy a couple for reasons I cannot even guess. It's like every time jncy was on the verge of break-up (up until S5) something else happened to keep them together.

They got fixed all the time and ronance isn't like that and would never be like that because they actually like to spend time together.

Let me show you

Jonathan and Nancy are not sleeping in the same room.

Nancy could have handed Jonathan the plate with the bacon. He's right next to her and the last in line to Ted who is the one who asked for the bacon in the first place. She doesn't look at Jonathan though and neither does he look at her. Instead she hands the bacon to someone else.

When you rather want to look out of the window instead of having a conversation with your girlfriend

Extra (because Nancy also ditches Steve): Nancy could have presented the manual to Steve who was tasked to find it and who's also pretty close to her. She doesn't though. She shows Robin.

First Jonathan is ditching Nancy for Steve. Then Nancy is ditching both Jonathan and Steve for Robin.

Looking straight ahead while her boyfriend is stumbling right behind her. How are the chances that she just didn't notice? Yeaaahh

Would Nancy want them to stick to the plan? Either way it would give Jonathan the added benefit of not having to confront her. Meanwhile Nancy at the hospital isn't missing either of hem.

First Jonathan's quite vocally disagreeing with Steve's plan to drive through the gate but then he's also the first to congratulate him when they actually made it all while Nancy was the one to agree with Steve first. She was the one who pushed him to do it. Her impact does not seem to matter to Jonathan though.

Nancy is agitated because of Hopper and because Holly is missing but instead of caring for her or even talking to her Jonathan much rather makes a comment about a comparison Steve made earlier. (Which mind you is kinda outrageous because if anyone should know what it's like if your little sibling is missing it's Jonathan. But no. Steve is more important.)

When you rather want to team up with your supposed "love rival" instead of your own girlfriend

Both of them seemed not to really have any friends before becoming involved with the supernatural.

Both are associated with music.

Robin repeatedly mentions her mom not appreciating her, which is also true of Jonathan.

Jonathan and Robin both have storylines involving lying to their significant others (Jonathan about college; Robin about the Upside Down).

Both act as mentors to Will

So, basically, I was wondering if you think that Jonathan and Robin parallels might be a hint that some Jancy scenes are actually corrupted Ronance scenes? And if so, do you also think some of the Robin and Steve scenes/ scenes where Steve mentions Robin could actually be Stonathan scenes/ about Jonathan?

For instance, in S4 at the Creel house, Steve tells Nancy that he and Robin are just friends, but then goes on to say that he could date her, then says never mind and trails off. I always found this an odd thing for Steve to say. The implication is basically that he would date her if she wasn't gay, which is kind of a fetishy thing to say, and seems out of character for Steve. Plus, Steve seems to really just think of Robin as a friend in S4 (in my opinion), so him saying he would date Robin felt out of place. That made me wonder if maybe that line of dialogue was actually about Jonathan.

So, first of all thank you so much for this very interesting ask but I must say I am not too sure about jncy scenes being corrupted ronance scenes because generally speaking jncy is build upon a very flimsy foundation. They aren't hopelessly in love with one other. They are together for very specific reasons which in the end are not rooted in genuine romantic attraction to one another or even physical attraction. They are a couple and stay a couple throughout most of the show because the narrative wants it that way. Not because Jonathan or Nancy would have chosen the other on their own terms.

Yet as you also said Jonathan and Robin do share a lot of parallels and I have also thought about them quite a lot and even more about how Jonathan and Robin actually differ from one another.

But first le us go over the parallels you mentioned.

It is true that the show presents us that neither Robin nor Jonathan did have any friends before the UD but Jonathan also tells us later that he considers Will to be his best friend which I would assume might have also been true before the show even started (Personally I also believe he was friends with Steve and then also had a bad fallout with him before the show even started but this is based on my very own interpretation so ymmy)

Also correct. Both are associated with music but Robin in the end also makes Mike choose a different record because she disagrees with his choice as she doesn't like the song. Would Jonathan have done the same?

Both of their mothers don't appreciate them in the way they deserve but the difference lies in how they deal with this as family still matters a lot Jonathan (I will talk more about this later)

Both Robin and Jonathan do lie and both also do it to save/ prolong their relationship with their partner but this also links jncy more with rvickie which is fitting considering that both ships do share some characteristics

Both act as mentors to Will but with quite different outcomes. Whereas you can be sure that Jonathan's advise to Will comes from a genuine place of goodwill you might actually doubt Robin's intentions. I still believe that she tried to give him the best advise she thought she could give him but there is reason to believe that she just tried to make him follow her footsteps in overcoming a love she deems impossible because she believes the love interest to be straight and therefore completely out of reach. (Yes, this would be about Mike, Tammy Thompson and most of all Nancy Wheeler)

This btw is what Robin looks like right before she tells Will the story about Tammy, her younger self an the 8 mm camera. She is rolling her eyes which makes it seem like she is rather annoyed at what she knows she's going to do next. In other words she might not even have an interest to mentor Will in the first place. She also isn't in this situation by her own choice. She got caught in a compromising situation and then proceed to save what there is left to save. Possibly pissing off Will would be totally off the table here. She might not want to be his mentor but she is still trying her best anyway.

Now compare this with Jonathan who is always eager to help Will in any way he can because he is his brother and Jonathan loves him a lot. You would never catch him roll his eyes at Will. Never.

As I said before I am not quite sure about jncy scenes being corrupted ronance scenes but that also heavily depends on what people have in mind when they talk about corruption and what it means for scenes to be corrupted. It is not as easy as just swapping out Robin for Jonathan and expecting it to have the same result. But then again maybe this is also not what the theorists are arguing for. I do not know.

If scenes are indeed corrupted and we are meant to replace Robin with Jonathan in some way then it would for sure also lead to a very different outcomes.

I do however believe that the parallels and also differences between Robin and Jonathan are present for a very good reason as I do believe that it is possible that the narrative expects them both to fulfill roles the other would be much better suited for. (Does this also count as corruption?)

One instance would be the mentoring of Will as mentioned above but there is also an even more glaring example of it and it involves Nancy as well.

For this we need to go back and look at what Murray told Nancy about Jonathan (and Steve) back in S2.

Murray: Probably, like everyone, afraid of what would happen if you accepted yourself for who you really are and retreated back to the safety of - Name? Name? - Jonathan: Steve.

Murray tells Nancy that she is afraid of embracing who she truly is and is therefore rejecting Jonathan and retreating back to the safety of Steve. (Also note that it is Jonathan who links safety with Steve, not Nancy) This then means that if she would only embrace who she actually is she would ditch Steve and be with Jonathan.

Steve here also works as a symbol of sorts. He represents safety, (financial) stability, marriage and family.

Nancy however as we all know doesn't want any of this. She wants to follow her dreams and not be trapped in life that would ultimately make her incredibly unhappy. So she in this moment and a bit later does what Murray tells her to do because she also believes his promise (Jonathan would support her in following her dreams) to be true. Murray here is manipulating them both to be honest.

Now let us keep this in mind and look at what Jonathan actually thinks of Nancy and if he is able to fulfill the promise Murray gave her.

In S1 Jonathan accuses Nancy of being insincere in her rebellious ways. He thinks that she in the end will give up on her dreams and instead marry a popular guy from school (Steve) and start a family with him in a cul-de-sac. Pretty heavy words but maybe he didn't fully knew Nancy back then, right? Maybe he's just too cynical to believe that there are people out there who genuinely don't want to live a life that involves family and marriage.

By the time S4 rolls around though, Jonathan should definitely know better but instead he still tells Argyle that he is convinced Nancy would again let go of her dreams because the guy she is currently with (he himself) doesn't want what she wants. He believes that she would come to him, marry him and then they'd have kids. Yes, I am fully aware that Jonathan also makes a point that he knows it'd turn ugly in the end because she'd then blame him for giving up on herself which would be a correct assumption. My point though is that marriage and family are still the only plans he has ever had for his future with Nancy. Never has he tried to think of what their future could look like if it doesn't involve marriage. In fact it almost seems like marriage seems to be an essential part of his future just like said marriage ending in divorce and disappointment also seems to be the inevitable outcome.

In other words: Even by S4 and after spending 3 full seasons with Nancy his opinion of is still the same as it was in S1.

To make matters even worse in S3 he he also tells Nancy multiple times to drop the story she so desperately wants to pursue is therefore siding with their boss (an authority figure who also represents the oppressive system) over his actual girlfriend. (He has very good reasons for doing so and I will get into that a bit later.)

Now let us remember again what Murray told Nancy: She could embrace who she truly is if she would just be with Jonathan instead of Steve as apparently Jonathan would help her to embrace who she actually is.

I mean either Murray is right and deep down Nancy wants to b a wife and mother (lol) or Jonathan is just Steve 2.0 in here and in the end also values what Steve is supposed to be representative of.

Thing is that Jonathan fits the outward aesthetic of the person Nancy is looking for which is also where her attraction in S2 came from. She wasn't attracted to Jonathan as a person. She was attracted to what she believed he stood for: Someone who supports her in pursuing her dreams.

Jonathan is rebellious in the way that he is cynical and very critical of society. He is an outcast and considered a freak. He also holds a deep disdain towards the system. Therefore he also seems like the person who would understand Nancy best and would support her when she needs it most against authority figures and the system trying to keep her down.

He doesn't do any of it though. Instead he in some ways acts like an extension of the forces trying to keep her down because how is his behavior any different from what Murray said she'd find with Steve?

Then S3 introduces free-spirited Robin.

Like Jonathan she also fits the outward aesthetic of a rebel but unlike Jonathan she can also give the word the word the meaning it deserves.

Robin doesn't adhere to authority. Robin praises Nancy for her will to search for information on her own and follow her instincts even in defiance of what others tell her to do. Like that time at the beginning of S4 when Nancy was defying Steve and his worries and Robin was there to witness it.

I do believe it must have left an impression on Robin because behavior like this is what Robin is drawn to. She likes strong-willed women who go their own way despite what others and society tells them to. She was head over heels in love with Tammy Thompson after all who also never made her plans of becoming a singer a secret to anyone and who also faced lots of adversary (everyone saying she is a bad singer) but never cared for it either as she had plans she wanted to follow.

Robin also unlike Jonathan would never hold Nancy back in the same way he does because Jonathan in the end is also a very family-oriented person. Family to him always comes first. Be it his mother or his brother. It is for their benefit he's willing to do everything. Not for Nancy's.

Robin on the other hand seems annoyed by her own mother. I have a really hard time imagining Robin prioritizing her family's needs over her own or anyone else's. In fact Robin seems like the kind of person who would leave the environment she is currently in without a second thought if she'd be able to whereas Jonathan would never leave Will or his mother behind if he feels that they might need him.

Jonathan loves his family and it is also his family which is his motivation for siding with his and Nancy's boss in S3. He wants to support them in order to lessen their financial struggle and Nancy only comes second after this. He would always have consideration for his family which in the end also means that he comes with ties attached to him his significant other would need to accept and deal with.

Nancy however doesn't want to be held back by anything or anyone. She doesn't want to compromise which as you might assume then inevitably must lead to conflict with Jonathan.

Robin much like Jonathan also faces financial struggles but unlike Jonathan she also never turned them into ammunition against Nancy. Robin also must find an answer to the question as to how to pay for collage as her family probably won't be able to pay for it either. Arguably she is even poorer than Jonathan because at the very least he has a car and a license while Robin does not.

Robin also doesn't see Nancy as a future wife and mother.

What I am trying to say here is that Robin embodies the type of person Nancy was promised to find in Jonathan. Both are similar in certain ways but also different in ways that matter especially when it comes to their motivations and the way they deal and interact with Nancy.

This is why I am a bit iffy about jncy scenes being corrupted ronance scenes. There is nothing in jncy that actually makes Nancy (or Jonathan) happy. If anything they make each other more miserable by the minute and I see Robin and ronance (as well as stonathan) in contrast to jncy.

Please also keep in mind that Jonathan and Nancy don't like to hang out and do activities together because as it is revealed to us nothing they could do together is fun for the both of them. By S5 it is also very noticeable how they actively tend to avoid each other as much as possible.

Meanwhile Nancy chooses to be with Robin whenever she can and Jonathan in a twisted way also chooses Steve over Nancy as well. He prioritizes what Steve does and what he says over everything Nancy does and says and yes I do believe the reason for this is jealously but he isn't afraid of losing Nancy to Steve. Otherwise he would pay more attention to her and her needs. What he is really unable to handle is losing Steve to Nancy.

You can also look at this whole thing from Jonathan's perspective. If he thinks that Nancy will in the end marry him and become mother his children then you might also ask why he's never let go of this belief. Why his mind seems to circle back to marriage and kids even when that isn't necessary at all. Nancy doesn't want it and has never given him any indication that she might and yet in S4 he still believes she does.

Honestly, I do think he is projecting, What Jonathan envisions Nancy being unable to resist in the end is actually what he himself is unable to resist despite his desperate tries to do so. He's not naive though. He has been let down by society as well and he is fully aware that what he actually wants is hard and maybe almost impossible to achieve. His own father left his family and even the Wheelers (Karen and Ted) who do seem to have everything society deems valuable are still unhappy in their marriage and Jonathan knows it because Nancy told him. So even if he theoretically were to achieve what he wants, he still believes it'd ultimately end up in failure.

Yet he's unable to let go because he cannot rid himself of what would actually make him him happy. Jonathan thrives when he's with his family. He loves them deeply and and is the most happy when he is with them. So what would that sentiment mean for his future and how it looks like? When either he himself or Will is out of the house and they don't live together anymore? I do believe that in the end Jonathan would also opt to have children and love and care for them in way that is very similar to how he treats Will right now.

So then, who is the only other person in their age group who places any value on family at all? Who is the one that learns to love and care for kids and also sees them as part of his future? Yeah. That is Steve.

Both Nancy and Jonathan are hoping to find in the other what they are looking for but both end up being disappointed. Neither can fulfill the others wants and desires because they are not fundamentally how the other imagines them to be.

Robin and Steve could though. Maybe. If the narrative would give them a chance. It doesn't though. (Is this also what is meant by jncy being a corrupted ronance storyline?)

Going back to your last point about the scene with Steve and Robin I must say that I totally agree with you. Jonathan is the person Steve has in mind and what he says about Robin is mostly still a reaction and damage control to a thing he accidentally said earlier.

It actually starts here with Nancy pulling the spiderwebs out of Steve's hair which then finally gives him the opportunity to do what I think he's been wanting to do since the start of the season. He asks if they can all go out together. Then he mentions himself, Nancy and then Robin. There is nothing suspicious about it just yet. He is friends with both Nancy and Robin so it's natural if he wants to go out with them.

Then he makes a very slight pause and mentions Jonathan. This so far is also still okay. The common belief (by the audience) is that he mentions Jonathan as an afterthought in order to placate Nancy and make her think that he's not romantically interested in her as he's also willing invite her boyfriend is therefore respecting their relationship.

What comes after is what makes it really weird because then he drifts off and mentions in a dreamy, wistful but also slightly regretful voice that „it's not like we are dating.“ This can of course mean Nancy as she's touching his hair right now but the kicker is that the last person he actually mentioned was Jonathan. Usually and especially in this short amount of time your mind wouldn't drift as much. At least from a general point of view it would make sense that what he says would be about the person he mentions last. Jonathan.

So, it is absolutely possible his mind did indeed stay with Jonathan and what he says to Nancy is also actually about Jonathan. This means that he just now blurted out to Nancy that he's kind of regretting not being the one who's currently dating her very own boyfriend.

Quite a blunder, isn't it?

No one is actually understanding what is happening here but the possibility that someone could still drives Steve into panic mode. He potentially just disclosed his queerness for everyone to hear and made it clear that he might be interested in dating someone he shouldn't have any interest in whatsoever. Jonathan who's a guy and on top of that also his love rival if seen from an outsider's viewpoint.

So he tries to salvage the situation and goes for the only safe option he has left: Robin.

He corrects himself by saying that it's not like he and Robin are dating which is the truth. I think you are also correct in assuming that Steve only sees Robin as a friend and is therefore not interested in dating her. He's just trying to inject this new meaning into the statement he just made which originally wasn't about Robin at all.

Then he's again trying to convince Nancy that he isn't dating Robin like it wasn't enough already and I do believe he also notices how his words might not help him as much as he wants them too. He just let it slip that he's interested in guys (one guy) and now he tries to make Nancy believe that this is not how she should interpret his words … by insisting of only being platonically interested in a woman. ("Do not assume I might be gay, I - a guy - am only friends with this woman." is what he basically says here and yeah. It's not very convincing.)

This doesn't help his cause if he wants Nancy to believe he is straight so he tries to reestablish his heterosexuality again by saying that of course he would date her but she's not interested in him ("It's not me! It's her!") and then he trails off because he also isn't going to disclose Robin's secret to Nancy.

The essence of this is that he desperately tries to make this not about him or his own queerness. He doesn't want Nancy to think hard about what he actually might have meant or what the implications of it are. He just wants her to believe that he's straight and there is no hidden queerness in him whatsoever. So he basically says that the reason as to why he and Robin are „only“ friends is not because of him but because of her.

He uses Robin quite a lot in this exchange in order to deflect from what is actually going on inside him. I also believe that he's overreacting a bit because neither Nancy nor Robin would somehow expect him to be queer just because he fumbles with words and might have said something he didn't intend to say. He is panicking though and this is reflected in how he stumbles over what he says and the meaning he wants to convey to Nancy.

Another thing about this whole exchange I personally find quite interesting is the order in which Steve names the people he wants to go out with. First it's himself, then Nancy (the one who the narrative wants us to think this is about,) then Robin (his platonic friend) and then comes Jonathan.

It's interesting that both Nancy and Robin are in the middle of this succession of names because if something or someone holds special importance to you then you would in most cases either think of them first (name them first; in this case it doesn't hold though as he himself takes that place) or you'd put them last (leaving the best for last; and also what comes last usually stays with you longer.) Last one is Jonathan though and that is interesting especially because neither Nancy nor Robin come to Steve's mind first. They are sandwiched in the middle.

That at the very least is my interpenetration of the scene as to what is happening between Steve and Robin (and Nancy) in this small exchange. I don't know if this would be considered a corrupted stonathan scene but I absolutely do believe that Jonathan was on Steve's mind during this conversation. However I also believe that Jonathan and Steve have a lot of undisclosed history between them which neither of them is willing to tell us (the audience) about.

Maybe though there might be a scene that I would consider corrupted after all but it also heavily depends on what your definition of corruption looks like. I do believe it is possible that in S5 it might have been better if Jonathan would have stayed back in Hawkins and Robin would have gone with Dustin, Steve and Nancy into the UD. (I talked about in more detail in this reblog here) Maybe then Jonathan would have been the one to give Will better advise that isn't discouraging him from confessing his true feeling the person he actually likes (Mike) and maybe Robin would have been able to keep Nancy from shooting the exotic matter because let's face it Nancy at this point in time would have never ever listened to what Jonathan says while she might have listened to Robin.

That being said, I think it can only happen under the condition that Jonathan and Nancy face their relationship problems much sooner and then inevitably also have their break up much sooner because if Jonathan isn't in the UD with Nancy, it obviously can't happen there so it must therefore happen before they enter.