Origin

At this point, it's almost sad that none of you seem capable of understanding such an obvious character.

In what world exactly is Anakin a lamb in wolf's clothing? He's literally THE wolf in sheep's clothing! He's the wolf in the sheepfold (in the Jedi community) about to devour the sheep (kill the Jedi children). For three years, he pretended to be a good Jedi, loyal to the order. For three years, he pretended he hadn't slaughtered the Tusken children. By always trying to excuse him as a poor child manipulated by Palpatine, you forget that he's a great manipulator too.

He manipulates the Jedi with the appearance of a good person, and as soon as he doesn't get what he wants, he gaslights and pretends not to understand the situation. Palpatine literally made it clear that he would force the Jedi to give him a seat on the Council so that he could serve as his spy ("be the eyes and ears of the Senate") and when the Jedi refused to give him the title of Master, he acted shocked.

And Darth Vader, the most despicable fascist soldier in the Empire IS Anakin. Just because someone changes his name after killing children doesn't make him a new person. Darth Vader is not the demon who possesses Anakin to commit atrocities for him.

Was Anakin possessed by Darth Vader when he killed the Tusken ? Was he possessed for three years after that when he decided to tell only Padme and Palpatine?

I feel the same way, especially considering how the story begins with Anakin having strange interactions with Padmé—idealizing her as "his angel"—and how he insists on getting too close even after she tells him "no" at least three times.

But I feel there are many other problematic aspects to the relationship.

So, I’d love to hear your take, since it’s not very common to find posts discussing the toxicity of the An*dala relationship.

My first ask! (very long incoming)

So I think the main, glaring problem with their relationship is that they aren't truly in love. They're using each other as coping mechanisms, which is entirely unhealthy on both sides. Let's start with how Anakin feels about Padme.

Now, here's where we may differ in opinion- their relationship in The Phantom Menace wasn't toxic. It was a normal interaction of a young child having an innocent crush on an older teen, and the teen not entirely knowing how to respond. Anakin's initial feelings toward Padme were an innocent fascination.

Now, normally a childhood crush dies out after a while. I fully believe this would have happened if it wasn't for all the change Ani was going through. Padme was a source of stability, a rock in very turbulent waters. She came to represent all the good, stable, steady things in his life- this only increased in AotC. He wasn't in love with her- he was attached to the feeling of safety she brought. The difference between love and attachment is that attachment is for your own gain- treating someone well or spending time with them because they make *you* happy, or because *you* feel better around them. Love is selfless, it looks outward only to the other person's happiness.

So essentially, Anakin idolized and idealized Padme to the point of unhealthy attachment and possessiveness.

Time for Padme!

Padme has always felt responsible for Anakin- in more of a sisterly way than anything. She knows that she's one of the only things keeping him stable, and instead of trying to stop that, she sticks around out of guilt. She wants to protect him, so she convinced herself she was in love and married him. It's important to realize that she doesn't know this: she believes she is in love because she has gaslit herself into thinking it. She loves him as an older sister would, and he can't accept that. So she doesn't either. She spoils him by breaking every boundary she ever set, and placates his anger by letting him do what he wishes. This doesn't stop her political activism- I do believe she was always a well-intentioned character. However, she nearly always chooses Anakin over her duty (to the point of unfair bias in court matters and military assignments).

Padme would feel even guiltier if she confronted that she was only trying to protect Anakin (as opposed to loving him as a wife), so she constantly tries to convince herself that she's in love by reaching out and asking for more. Really what she wants is stability, and she tries to plaster a fake normalcy over top her secret relationship. We can't ignore that she's at her best apart from him- when she's working as a diplomat or anything. Anakin is holding her back in a lot of ways, and she’s staying there out of fear and guilt.

In RoTS, when their relationship ends, something happens. The Anakin she always feared is standing in front of her, angry and dark. The Anakin she tried to prevent. Sue can finally see what was there all along, the monster lying in wait that she helped create- but she doesn't. She sees that little boy she met on Tatooine. She sees a broken and hurting child who she couldn't lie well enough to save. She sees someone who has always been her little brother, her ward, her friend. And all Anakin can see is his stability falling apart.

This is why Leia, with all the fierceness of her father, couldn't save him. Why Obi-Wan, who Anakin shoved into a paternal position he wasn't ready for, couldn't redeem him. This is why Ahsoka, who Anakin never truly believed would be strong enough without him, couldn't convince him to turn. Only Luke, with Padme's protective idealism, Qui-Gon's understanding, and Shmi Skywalker's unconditional love, could bring back his father. Anakin, at every stage of his life, would have left Vader to die. It took someone better to save him.

In essence, Anakin was attached to Padme and Padme was scared of what would happen if she let go. They were both very flawed, and that's what makes Star Wars a beautiful story. I believe they could have been happy together- but not as lovers. As friends, perhaps.

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Compromise

This came to me in a dream

However compared to Aragorn, most of Arwen's scene is with him or related to him, which feels boring to me because who is she really besides someone connected to Aragorn? What are her true thoughts? What are her beliefs? Are there any scenes where she actually disagrees with something and stands by it other than brief moments?

From start to finish, she's always thinking about him. Which isn't usual, but when it takes up like 99% of her scenes it feels so boring and distances her from me (I see me as I'm not quite sure if others have felt this way or it's just me). She's motivated mostly by Aragorn and it feels so. Empty. Does that truly have to be your only motivation?

What I mean by this is NOT: “Leia should only be angry and bitter! 🤪”

What I DO mean by this is: I find it VERY telling when (some, not all) SW fans complain about constructive criticism in regards to why someone would recoil in disgust at the idea of Leia being written to ‘forgive’ Anakin—by then turning around and saying certain fans were trying to write her as a “shrill bitch”, JUST because she might not have it in her to forgive the man who canonically held her back and heartlessly did nothing while Tarkin ordered the destruction of her entire home planet, including her parents, Breha and Bail Organa.

Leia is not one-dimensional. I too dislike the idea of writing her only as an angry person. She shows compassion for Luke in the aftermath of Obi-Wan’s death, and she falls in love with Han, which is where you see a more vulnerable side of her emotions.

But I highly am against this toxic mindset that just because you’re still angry about an injustice against you, that somehow this makes you a toxic person or a “shrill bitch”. Leia has every reason to never forgive Anakin as long as she lives, and judging her as somehow ‘lesser’ than ‘pure and saintly Luke’ for it is something that has always left a bad taste in my mouth. It feels like just another example of victim blaming that certain large sections of this fandom has weirdly grown fond of, just because of the sheer fact Anakin is the main character, and so they’re biased to want him to be happy above anyone else.

This isn’t to say people shouldn’t be able to write whatever meta/fics they want about Anakin’s ‘redemption’ or AUs of Leia (OOC-ly) choosing to somehow forgive him. It’s more instead of me pushing back against subtly calling people ‘idiots’ in some manner, just because they have a different view on how Leia should be characterized than someone else (who’s an Anakin fan) might think.

Honestly—I just hate the ‘moral grandstanding’ of it. I’d respect the idea a lot more if people of this mindset could just admit that the only reason they even care about exploring a storyline of Leia OOC-ly ‘forgiving’ Anakin is because Anakin is their favorite character/who they care about the most, and they just don’t want him to be sad.

Because that’s literally all this boils down to: people want Leia to forgive Anakin, because it would personally suck for him that his own daughter would hate his ghostly guts for life. It is so OBVIOUS that the only reason people like exploring this plot point is because of Anakin’s pain. It has absolutely nothing to do with Leia. It is all about the sad emo boy of the hour.

And that’s absolutely fine that they care more about Anakin/are more concerned with his character than Leia! It’s whatever. It’s fictional. It’s how fandom works.

But it just drives me up the wall that some people can’t just admit that to themselves. Lol. 😭🙄🤦‍♀️

Either way, my main point goes back to this: if Anakin isn’t a ‘heartless bastard’ for fans who constantly defend him and his angry outbursts, then Leia’s moments of (rightful) anger shouldn’t suddenly make her a “shrill bitch”.

The first time we see Plo Koon, a Jedi Master, in tcw, he clearly tells his clone troopers that they are not expendable to him, and then proceeds to do his absolute best to save as many clones as possible.

The first time we see Anakin in tcw he has his clones fly an unnecessary suicide mission because he wants the glory of killing Grievous. He doesn’t even stop when he hears them all dying—his Padawan, a 14-year-old, has to yell at him that no one else will survive what he’s doing before he changes his plan.