Female, 28. Quiet. Lurker. Social Recluse. Lover of books and occasionally nerdy tv shows and cartoons. This blog is mainly going to be fandom-related stuff, at the moment mostly Gravity Falls.
You know how DC KO is kinda a soft-reboot allowing characters to move into a new stage and all that? Well, I’m definitely not a Bruce-anti, but I do think there would be something compelling about a Batman arc which does allow Bruce to reckon with the ways that he is a flawed parent. Obviously, Bruce is and always will be a bit emotionally-constipated, and he does already see some of his flaws, but rather than viewing them as ‘this problem was created because I failed in this way, so now I have to fight this,’ I think it would be interesting if it was viewed from the perspective of Bruce as a parent rather than Bruce as a vigilante. I love Bruce, and I love that he is flawed, but I do think there is still a lot to be said about the possibility of Bruce choosing to do something different to help his kids when they need it, and it working. Being able to break the cycle before it even reaches the next generation. Idk I love him, and he has such a big heart, so I’d just like to see more of it come out in his decision making process. It wouldn’t even have to go against the editorial law that Batman cannot be wrong ever because it would be his decision. AND it’s a message which has worked in other Batman media.. idk
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One of my favourite things about Bruce Wayne as a character is that, in universe, it’s so easy to presume that Batman’s greatest strength is his brain, with his detective skills and strategies. Or it could be his body, which he’s turned into a weapon through years of training so that he can be the best and do what nobody else can do. But it’s only those closest to him that realise that Batman — that Bruce’s — biggest strength is his incorruptible heart. He is a bleeding heart and an optimist at his core, and I need everyone (*cough* DC studios *cough*) to realise that that’s what makes Batman so special.
Brutalia except they never got divorced because it’s until death do us part, and they have both died, so there’s no need since they adhered to the terms.
I love Jason Todd. I think he’s a very nuanced character, and I love when we see his own moral code in action, because it does have a lot of merit, and even when he was a “villain”, he was still trying to do good.
BUT. I do think there is a really poetic sense of irony in going from Jason Todd, Red Hood, scourge of the Gotham Underworld, crime lord, pimp, drug and weapons dealer, who will shoot a goon and feel no remorse, who will beg Batman to abandon his moral code and kill…
… to Red Hood, hero, Outlaw, Titan, mentor to Generation Outlaw and the Teen Titans, one of the Robins, Bat. Someone who is unashamedly good, and for all his methods, on the side of the angels.
Because even if Jason disagrees with Batman’s no-kill rule, the hero that he is today could be argued to be a product of it. Had Bruce decided to start killing after Jason’s death, who is to say that he wouldn’t have just shot Jason before the identity reveal? Batman’s entire identity is born out of his genuine goodness, his belief that everyone deserves another chance to do good… and even if I don’t think that Jason was a particularly bad person to begin with, a lot of his “redemption” (which I will argue is very self-motivated, as opposed to being due to Bruce’s actions necessarily) and Jason’s growth is the proof that Batman’s no-kill rule can work.
Disclaimer: I feel like this is a lot more nuanced than I can fully explain. No, I do not think that Jason was ever comparable to the Joker or any of those he wanted Bruce to kill. No I don’t think that Bruce can be credited with causing Jason’s growth and development (something I think is explicitly plot relevant to RHATO, especially N52 when everyone telling Jason he’s a bad person). No, I don’t think that Bruce was always a great parent to Jason, even after he started to “reform”. Yes, I do think things like the Batarang incident complicate this point. BUT… I do think that, even if Jason doesn’t realise it, the mercy which Bruce often shows to his rogues did allow him the opportunity to grow into the hero that he is today, which he would not have achieved if Bruce had just shot him the second he turned up in Hush.
As much as I like it when Red Hood kills, because it gives him something unique which separates him from the rest of the Batfamily, I am actually quite open to Jason’s current development (July 2026).
At the end of Batman (2016-2025), it did seem like Jason was going back to using guns and killing, which the ill-fated Red Hood solo also seemed to support, and sure, I would absolutely love to see a book wherein Jason can define his own moral compass and deliver his own form of vigilante justice without Bruce popping up every few issues to remind him of the no-kill rule.
BUT! I can also appreciate the new direction that DC is choosing to take his character in. I absolutely adored Jason’s issue of DC KO; I feel like it really allowed Jason to take a breath, step back, and assess certain truths in his life, whilst also being quite positive for his future. It’s not necessarily stated what his views are on killing, given the nature of DC KO (though I would argue he did seem quite positive about the prospect), but it did feel like taking that first really important step forward. If we now consider that he’s about to appear in Teen Titans, this doesn’t feel like the Jason we were going to see in the Red Hood solo: Jason isn’t moving to his own city and defining his own rules, but he is (presumably) going to take on a nurturing mentor relationship with a group of child-sidekicks again.
He may use guns, he may kill. But I do think the idea of Jason, after DC KO, ultimately deciding not to take that step back and distance himself more, but to give back (whilst still separate from the Bats and presumably outside of Gotham) can still be good for his character development. Whilst a gun-wielding, murdering Red Hood taking on New Angelique would have been a step towards independence, I do also think there is sometime to be said for Jason taking on the responsibility for these kids and surrounding himself with life — especially if he is able to be the protector for these kids that Bruce, for all he tried, could not always be for him.
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Listen. Listen to me. WFA is fun. I'm not an anti-WFA person. Nor am I anti-reading fanfic when you're not in the fandom (it confuses me, sure, but I'm not against it). These things are fun, you're having fun! That's great! But did you know you can have fun with canon? That the canon content isn't as bad as a lot of people make it out to be?
I know comic spaces can be scary, especially if you're female. But I, as a WFA-fan turned comic reader in less than a year, have had a good time regardless of the specific spaces. You just gotta block, man. Just block liberally. Find your spaces. Or even better, ignore them all and have fun on your own! That's my fandom fatigue talking but still, nothing says you have to appeal to the other fans. You do you.
"But what if I can't access comics—" Look I get it. Comics are expensive. I have spent an obscene amount on my first shelf. And some countries struggle to even get any in, or maybe you live far from a comic book shop. That sucks! But you know comics are online, right? DC has tons of theirs on their subscription service. There are some on Kindle. Hell, your local library probably has some! I literally saw someone logging Under the Red Hood into the library system the other day!
(And there's always sailing the high seas. This is what I did before I bought my first comics, and I still do it now. There are plenty of websites out there. Just remember never to post the names, be careful, and don't pirate ongoing runs that could detrimentally affect the creators. Comics aren't a stable business, and we need to support artists in whatever way we can.)
"But there are so many comics it's overwhelming—" Listen. Listen, buddy. There really aren't. It looks like a lot, but trust me, there aren't that many out there. You guys are coming in with the advantage that you're already vaguely aware of character names, storylines, personalities, etc., so pick one character you like and look up a reading list. There are tons. What I did was look up reading lists and compare several to see which books multiple people were recommending. Alternatively, pick one with a cool cover and go. Seriously. If you like it, cool, if you don't, choose another one.
And don't go in thinking you have to read everything about everyone. If you're like me, you'll hyperfixate on one character and read every major appearance of theirs, yet neglect another because you don't like them. That's cool! That's fine! I'm an expert on Jason Todd, but I have never willingly read a Tim Drake comic. You don't have to. This is for fun. Read for fun.
Believe me. Canon is good. Canon is not always the miserable, awful experience that so many fearmonger. You can still read your fluffy Batfanon fics and keep up with WFA. There's nothing wrong with that. But please. If you even read one single comic this year, just one, I'll be proud of you.
Jason's monologue in UTRH was a monologue because that's the only way his voice and his thoughts can reach us in a story that decline his narrative. It was a monologue because that was him confronting and questioning Bruce, the narrative about everything he represents and more. It was a monologue because it represents a shift from a narrative that include everybody but the victim to the victim's narrative.
It was a monologue because it was Jason forcing the readers and Bruce to listen to his narrative, to see his perspective, do hear about his thoughts and know about his minds and to see the world the way it is. It was a monologue so we could understand Jason. It was a monologue because it was truthful, honest, sincere, and it was a monologue because-
Because it was not a dialogue, because a dialogue would require Bruce to respond to Jason with the same level of effort that Jason did, but he didn't. It was a monologue because this guy is pissing you off when Jason was standing there, fighting tooth and nail for Bruce to understand him and he made an effort to understand Bruce, to hear his reasoning too; but Batman was pissing you off because not only he didn't make an effort to respond to Jason with the same kind of effort that Jason did, he also shove away all of Jason's effort claiming that he wouldn't understand.
Jason was showing Bruce his heart bleeing in his ribcage, all his emotions and thoughts and tears and let him and the readers hear the anger in his voice when he said "Why on gods' earth is he still alive?!?" and the tremble in his voices when he said "...because he took me away from you." And all Bruce can answer him is just "I can't"?
He asked Bruce multiple times and wanted to hear from his perspective but Bruce just told him that he won't understand.
He tried his best to, was desparated to understand Bruce and to listen to his reasons and all Bruce did is pulled the cliche "If I do that, I'd never be able to go back." To respond to all the things Jason said! That motivating, moving speech! Just that cliche reasoning. Ignoring what he'd done in the past... I swear that that's not even good enough for the readers and you know that, let alone Jason. He really just went "Yeah I want to kill him I want to kill Joker so bad I really want to kill him I thought about it but I won't anyway."
Jason talked with words, words, moving and powerful and sincere words and Bruce respond with cliche, shallow, useless words like he basically just "I can't. I'm sorry. I just can't." "I'm sorry I failed you, Jason." "Stop this, you know I won't..." "Stop..." "No..." "Don't..."
At least... at least try to respond with some more effort, even just half as what Jason did! It was a monologue because Jason was the only one who was trying to talk and was trying to... try and Bruce was there and he just went I'm sorry I can't don't stop no. Like hello. He was truly disregarding all of Jason's effort and hard work by simply standing there, hemming and hawing, and saying, uhm hmn hnnn I can't. He didn't even try. (Like did he really even listen to Jason's word and let that get into his head, like actually listen and try to understand what Jason was trying to say and his perspective and try to understand why Jason felt that way why he was so angry and how he was showing Bruce how it felt like to be ignored and disregarded as victim, did he even try.)
Jason poured his whole heart into that conversation and confrontation, he was deadly serious, whereas Bruce was just..........
And then he/ the narrative just silenced Jason shut him down wtf ughh I can't.
Bruce and Talia being cute in the new Dark Knights of Steel. <3
DC, listen. This is an Elseworld. You do not need to make this Talia evil. You do not have to put her in the same narrative role that mainline Talia has been shoved into. She can have a different role. It's an alternate universe. It's fine. Diana and not-Kara are dating, you don't need to break up Brutalia to shoehorn in the inevitable Batcat pairing. Just this once, can we please just have a world where Talia actually does manage to escape her father's control and side with Bruce?
some time ago I saw a few takes that Jason doesn't even really help crime alley and probably only makes it worse because he's just another crime lord who wants to control crime. and that it's batman/Bruce who really helps crime alley because he spends money on charities and helps as a vigilante. but like. it's literally in the text, in a canonical source material, that he would only go to crime alley on the anniversary of his parents death. it's literally how he meets Jason? also if batman is a vigilante then guess what? it's illegal. and what he does as said vigilante is guess what? control crime. he just does it in a different way than Jason but they aren't actually all that different. they just have different approach to it but it all boils down to "i'm gonna help this city and i'm gonna do it my way." but acting like batman is the embodiment of justice when what he does is just as illegal as what Jason does is really annoying to me. especially when people bring up the fact that Jason kills as if he was killing people left and right as a hobby. he doesn't and he doesn't want to and this is also literally in the text. Jason thinks of the past and future victims of the "villains" that could've and still can be saved but batman treats the "villains" as the victims too, as someone that can be helped while Jason feels like not all of them can be helped because he fell victim to one of them himself and he saw firsthand what no remorse looks like and to me this is why they can't see eye to eye. batman tries to be optimistic but Jason tries to be realistic. at the same time Jason doesn't think that all the "villains" should be killed but batman thinks that none of the "villains" should be killed at all and this is another thing that they disagree on imo. but the problem is also the fact that Bruce can't seem to view Jason as a victim too, not when Jason is back as if the crime he was a victim of had never happened. and Jason tries to show Bruce that he actually was a victim and that he knows what it feels like to be dismissed or to be ignored as said victim. that's why he forced Bruce to have a reaction where he wouldn't dismiss Jason's status of a victim that demands justice. but Jason didn't account for the fact that in Bruce's eyes joker was also a victim, especially in the situation they found themselves in during the final confrontation in utrh. it was Jason who is no longer a victim because he's not dead anymore vs joker who might become a victim if batman won't do anything. and batman can't allow to make a new victim now when he himself is looking. but Jason wants to make sure that there won't be any more victims of this one after this one. the father and son that will never find a common ground because neither of them is willing to change for the other fully and completely. Jason might be more willing to try because he strives for connections he could only have if he played by batman's rules but ultimately he still knows he doesn't agree with batman. and things go on and on and on and they'll probably never reconcile because despite similar goal in mind they're too different at the end of the day
I see people make the point that JT fans don’t like the character that currently exists in canon instead we like a version we’ve made up but the thing is we’re right. No one who likes Jason for his own sake likes the reckless criminally inclined fuckup characterization dc insists on. The only people that accept that direction for him are people who want him vilified, out of the way, or both. It’s lazy and insulting writing so ofc fans don’t buy it.
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bruce feels so ooc in fraction's run, simply because for some reason, matty decided to instead of tailoring annika for bruce..he tailored bruce..to be a foil for dr.zeller..
what i mean by that is that he essentially stripped one of the fundamentals of batman, having hope in peoole, and wanting them to change for the better.
well apparently now bruce is a cynical mf who believes people cant change and dr.zeller is always right
if bruce never believed people could change why tf did he let jason go on multiple occasion? why is he still arguing with two-face/harvey? why isnt he locking up the joker in like..idfk...the negative zone?
bruce always tries to see the right in the wrong (which is also why his and talia's relationship is so important), stripping him of such a trait is dumb because now bruce..is just ..kind of an asshole for not locking these guys up in huge containment..
Why is it always 'Jason learns that Dick killed the Joker (and it somehow made everything ok)', but never 'Jason learned about Talia killed the Joker (and that Bruce revived him in a Lazarus pit)'?
Also that scene where she's watching the sunset with him on a cliff side always gets me, where she said that Bruce did love and morne you, but maybe more importantly that this love and grief did not end with anything meaningful. And it's a recurring thing in lost days, she telling him that he is morned but warned him not to seek Bruce out because he isn't avenged.
Just, all that on its own might not mean anything, might even be slightly weird, cause why would she be so insistent in this? But then if you put it in the context that she gunned Joker down only for Bruce to painstakingly revive him, with a laz pit that he has to put together himself no less... No wonder she'd be questioning his judgement.
This happened in Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #142-145 , during The Demon Laughs arc. Talia gunning down Joker is in 144, and the revival is in 145.
Now, I am not claiming Talia killed him for the better good of the world or anything. In fact here she is besides Ra's al Ghoul who's working with the Joker to commit mass murder via bio weapons. The reason she gunned down Joker is because he rather predictably tried to cross them and sprayed them with the deadly bio weapon, which the al Ghous happened to be immune from.
As for Bruce reviving Joker, he did it because Joker is the lead to finds Ra's al Ghoul before he gets to release the bio weapon and kill 5 billion people. And also yes this story still has the wonderful setting where the pit does not come pre assembled. Which means yes he does have to go to great lengths to recreate a useable pit.
So the situation on its own is like, whatever. Yet another case of 'Batman saves the planet from evil evil people despite all the hardship he has to overcome', with the revival painted as one of those hardship because oh that's the last thing he wanted but he has no choice he has to do it for the greater good.
But the fact still stands that Talia did kill the Joker, and Batman did go to great lengths to revive him. And in the context of Jason's story, this arc happened in the long stretch of time before DC decided to revive him, so like, debatable if he would be in Talia's care during this, but he would be soon even if isn't already.
Also as a bonus, this panel of Joker himself poking fun at bat's decision.
Now, as per the original post, the point here isn't that Talia did avenge Jason once upon a time by killing Joker, because her intention definitely isn't that here. The point is Bruce went to great lengths to undo that death, and that these two events as a whole should have a hell of a impact on Jason, if he ever learned about it.
jeff lemire is in fact capable of writing good comics about characters i like! great comics. for characters i love. one of my favorites, even. just not for that one.
Don't think this has made its way to tumblr yet, but aaahh everything i read from Kyle Higgins is making me more and more excited for this Teen Titans serious. It's about time Jason got some good fucking writing
Fanon or canon, you will have to. Make Jason Todd look like a complete asshole/ an completely evil villain in order for Bruce not to look like a complete asshole if you adore the "good parent Bruce Wayne" trope. Or else, you'll have to. Erase almost the entire plotline between him and Jason, leaving behind only the superficial shell of their relationship, and strip away all of Jason’s legitimate emotions and feelings for Bruce (essentially reducing their complex bond to the bare minimum).
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TFW you read a fic that is incredibly well-written but leads to a dark and depressing ending, and you even suspected that ending was coming since you started the fic but the writer created such a realistic depiction of an abusive relationship that you changed your mind on where you wanted the fic to go halfway through, and you can think of several ways you could change the story so that the ending would have worked for you nonetheless, but all of them basically boil down to turning the story into something different and not what the author wanted to write so there's no point in commenting with concrit on it, so you end up not commenting on the chapter at all cause you don't really have anything positive to say at this point, but you still feel kind of guilty for not commenting and instead vagueing about it on tumblr.
i don't think i'll ever form a solid opinion on starlin's jason because on one hand, starlin's writing has one of my favorite takes on jason. his characterization is incredibly compelling to me, especially when built on top of collins', barr's, and even moench's...but that's also like, my exact issue. starlin's jason is so fascinating, and it was completely unintentional, and DC did literally nothing with it.
i know people always bring up death of the author for this, and i agree, of course, but like i wish i didn't have to do that because it is so frustrating to me that starlin's jason, and post-crisis jason in general, had such brilliant bones and they barely did anything with him. yes he was good, but he could have been so much better if he was written with proper intention and consideration!!!!!!
starlin didn't want to write robin, let alone jason, and that is present in his writing even if you're ignoring his intended reading of the material. starlin wasn't interested in jason and didn't put much thought into him, therefore, we get to explore very little of jason as an individual. we rarely get to see his inner monologue, and when we do it's brief and basic; we don't see him by himself a lot, and when we do it's not really about him, it's about bruce, or the mission, or it's something that was shoved in with no internal context to make jason read as more annoying, because starlin really wanted to kill him.
the lack of inner monologue and interiority works in jason's favor, because it forces us to interpret his character based almost solely on his previous characterization and his then-current behavior, and that is what creates that unique portrayal of a child disillusioned by the system that i think is incredibly compelling—but that wasn't on purpose!!! the only reason we have the room to read it like that is starlin's such a shitty writer that he accidentally wrote a good character. since that characterization was accidental, there's a lack of emotional texture, and so many missed opportunities; those missed opportunities are so frustrating to me.
it becomes especially frustrating when you hold starlin's writing up next to other writers...moench's, for example. i think pre-crisis jason is brushed off way too often, but i do agree that his origin wasn't nearly as interesting as post-crisis jason's. it wasn't bad, but having another kid come from the circus was just never going to be particularly compelling—he didn't have the best bones. what made pre-crisis jason an interesting character was how much thought was very clearly put into him by moench. there are definitely critiques you can make of moench's pre-crisis writing, but, in my opinion, jason's relationship with bruce, and jason's overall emotional depth and development, isn't really one of them.
throughout moench's run, jason has unique and identifiable motivations, beliefs, fears, thought patterns, etc, and more importantly, he has all those things, and they change and develop according to the story's progression. we're not just shown jason disobeying bruce, or acting a bit recklessly, and then told it's just because he's trying to prove himself as robin. we're given multiple reasons for his behavior, and even better, we get to see jason's actual thought process as he makes these choices. we see that it's not just pride, or immaturity, he's worried bruce will get hurt (or worse), or thinks being robin is the only way he can spend time with bruce, that robin is how he gets bruce to love him, that robin is what's expected of him, etc. he is very desperate for affection and attention, and he's terrified of being left alone or abandoned for a second time.
what's more, moench doesn't even stop there, we actually get to see when and how these beliefs and fears regarding bruce and robin formed. they don't come from nothing. we see the shift in jason's thinking from being upset because his new father is too busy to spend time with him, to wanting to be bruce's partner so they can go out at night together, to accidentally being called robin—at first being slightly bothered by it—then fully leaning into that and trying to prove himself as robin over and over and over again. i could on, but you get the point. moench's jason didn't exist in a vacuum, and whether or not you think his actions, reactions, feelings, etc are reasonable, i think moench does a great job at making sure they're understandable.
if i were to point to specific panels to compare the interest moench's vs starlin's writing takes in jason's character, i'd use ADITF and TEC #528. in ADITF, we see alfred tell bruce that jason has been crying in his room while looking over old pictures of his parents. in TEC #528 we get to actually see jason crying over old pictures of his parents, as well as what he's thinking while he does it. that's so irritating to me, like there was so much room for emotional texture there but starlin just refused to explore jason's character beyond the bare minimum, and so we don't get to see it.
the same thing is true when you compare starlin's writing to collins', or even barr's. collins' got to write 6 stories with jason and his post-crisis origin story, and he managed to give jason more interiority, development, and individuality than starlin did in twice as many issues, and starlin didn't have to establish an entirely new origin story!! collins' writing used the potential class commentary provided by jason's post-crisis origin, which not only created really great parallels with bruce, but took the whole concept of "robin is batman's hope", and extended it to "robin is the people's hope".
collins' jason was willing to give penguin another chance, while bruce couldn't believe him. he stole to survive, but went out on his own to stop crime because he thought it was wrong. this tells us so many things about jason, namely that jason may determine morality from the effects and context of one's actions, rather than the actions themselves, which is a really interesting philosophy to introduce in a batman story; i love that so much!! collins' jason wanted to help people, and that didn't come from bruce. also, when jason was upset with bruce, it wasn't treated by the narrative as something wrong or disappointing; it was written in a way that made jason's reactions understandable and sympathetic. you can feel what jason is feeling.
barr didn't have the same amount of room to explore jason's character as collins or starlin. his TEC run was the first real depiction of the dynamic duo with their new post-crisis backstories, ergo, his run was focused more on batman and robin, than bruce and jason...and he still managed to give jason more emotional depth and consideration than starlin!!!! he does a very similar thing to collins where jason is narratively positioned as the hope of crime alley, and he did manage to squeeze some real character work in for jason when possible—TEC #571 is a really great example of this. we see jason's greatest fears, we see how he thinks, we see him go back and forth with himself, it's awesome. i love it. the fact barr managed to do that, and starlin didn't, is genuinely infuriating.
batman: the cult, the dumpster slasher trilogy, and batman #424-425 are some of my favorite jason stories ever. i think the concept of jason going into robin thinking he'd be able to help people like him, repeatedly being disappointed by the amount of change he actually makes, and gradually becoming a bit jaded is a really great build-up. batman: the cult serving as a breaking point, which leads to him spiraling further and further into self-destructiveness and disillusionment as he succeeds more at punishing offenders than preventing new victims, is really, really cool. except starlin didn't think about it that hard, so we didn't actually get to see any of that. i wanna see it!!!!! let me see!!!
i want to see how jason felt seeing so many people that were just like him, vulnerable and desperate, taken advantage of and used by a man as vessels for his own self-serving crusade. i want to see how he felt, as a child who spent months fending for himself on the street, watching as everyone brushed off the thousands of missing people just because they were homeless; how he felt when they suggested it might be a good thing. i want to know what was going on in jason's head when, after weeks of searching for him, he found bruce chained, broken, and drugged, just like he used to find catherine sick, feeble, and high. i want his perspective on everything, and i want the fallout. i want to see how that affected him, how that changed him, and how he spirals further and further as he sees the system fail again and again until he's looking over the railing of that balcony at felipe's body.
like i could literally go on forever about this there are so many things starlin could have done with jason's character. there was so much to explore with jason's unique perspective and moral framework. starlin had so much meat to sink his teeth into, and he literally refused to!! his writing creates the outline of such a brilliant character, adds such an interesting twist to his sense of justice, has such a thought-provoking depiction of a child with complex trauma, but since it was mostly accidental, that's all we get, the outline. the sketch isn't enough for me i want the line art and rendering!!! i want it soooo bad. i want to see jason's story, and i want to see jason's life, instead of just the role he played in bruce's. i want to see how collins' and barr's jason became starlin's, and i want to know him in the way i knew moench's jason—
—and i'll never get it because they killed him and have spent the past four decades trying to convince us there was nothing there in the first place. i read the comics, i know there was something there. i see the bones you buried DC, and i will never get over them.
