just the same / but brand new

This. Ask yourself “what did the Doctor do for River to prove his love?”

Nothing. He left her to the weeping angels.

But Rose. He BURNED UP A SUN JUST TO SAY GOODBYE. Did he have to do that? Absolutely not. She was in the parallel universe; he could have just moved on. But he couldn’t. He HAD to see her, even if one last time.

(And let’s not forget that he literally gave her a piece of himself too)

And had Rose asked him to get her; had she admitted SHE was the pregnant one, he would have stopped at nothing to get her back.

of course he didn’t have to but he did it because rose meant a lot to him. i am not denying that. the doctor loved rose!

what i don’t get is the implication he wouldn’t have done it for anyone else

he didn’t do it to amy and rory because for whatever reason moffat decided to write it so that the doctor could never talk to them again without destroying the entire universe for reasons that don’t entirely make sense, but whatever

moffat seemed to buy into the idea that it was impossible to change your own history more than RTD, but this all seems to be down to different writer philosophies. like river song’s death was a fixed event in the doctor’s history that he couldn’t reverse. maybe RTD would have written a way out of it, but moffat chose not to

but he did have the future doctor devise a way to save river’s life via the data ghost. he didn’t need to do that either, but clearly she meant enough to the future doctor that he could not bear to have her no longer exist, even only in digital form

This. Ask yourself “what did the Doctor do for River to prove his love?”

Nothing. He left her to the weeping angels.

But Rose. He BURNED UP A SUN JUST TO SAY GOODBYE. Did he have to do that? Absolutely not. She was in the parallel universe; he could have just moved on. But he couldn’t. He HAD to see her, even if one last time.

(And let’s not forget that he literally gave her a piece of himself too)

And had Rose asked him to get her; had she admitted SHE was the pregnant one, he would have stopped at nothing to get her back.

This. Ask yourself “what did the Doctor do for River to prove his love?”

Nothing. He left her to the weeping angels.

But Rose. He BURNED UP A SUN JUST TO SAY GOODBYE. Did he have to do that? Absolutely not. She was in the parallel universe; he could have just moved on. But he couldn’t. He HAD to see her, even if one last time.

(And let’s not forget that he literally gave her a piece of himself too)

And had Rose asked him to get her; had she admitted SHE was the pregnant one, he would have stopped at nothing to get her back.

All very true. The teselecta married River after the Doctor said clearly he didn't want to marry her, but felt he had to once there was no other choice that would get River to listen to him.

We don’t have confirmation how River got his name. But it wasn’t at their „wedding“.

Also, I have joined the fandom more recently and have not been here since 2012, so to me it’s all fresh. If you have a problem with that, guess what? Scroll. But don’t come under my post or my friends reposts and act as if we are wrong, when we KNOW that we are right.

the doctor clearly views it as binding based on his actions in the husbands of river song; 13’s statements about her wife in legend of the sea devils etc

you’re allowed to not like it! i am not a particularly big fan of it. i much prefer ships like 4romana, 12clara and thasmin. but this shit about trying to prove your headcanons to be the objective truth is totally immature and silly behaviour

sure, “death of the author” and all, but it’s literally confirmed by all of the people who worked on the show at the time that they were portraying

If you take the time as an author or screenwriter or whatever to tell the audience how a proper timelord wedding goes, and then show us one that does not follow those rules then that has a reason.

Also, it’s not a headcanon that Rose meant more to the Doctor than River ever did.

Do you think he would have let Rose have to EVER break her own wrist to get out of a weeping angels grip?

Do you think he would have ever just accepted that Rose would die because he saw her death happening, since they meet in the incorrect order?

If you actually think he would have ever treated Rose like he treated River then you need a crash course in media literacy.

All very true. The teselecta married River after the Doctor said clearly he didn't want to marry her, but felt he had to once there was no other choice that would get River to listen to him.

We don’t have confirmation how River got his name. But it wasn’t at their „wedding“.

Also, I have joined the fandom more recently and have not been here since 2012, so to me it’s all fresh. If you have a problem with that, guess what? Scroll. But don’t come under my post or my friends reposts and act as if we are wrong, when we KNOW that we are right.

the doctor clearly views it as binding based on his actions in the husbands of river song; 13’s statements about her wife in legend of the sea devils etc

you’re allowed to not like it! i am not a particularly big fan of it. i much prefer ships like 4romana, 12clara and thasmin. but this shit about trying to prove your headcanons to be the objective truth is totally immature and silly behaviour

sure, “death of the author” and all, but it’s literally confirmed by all of the people who worked on the show at the time that they were portraying

If you take the time as an author or screenwriter or whatever to tell the audience how a proper timelord wedding goes, and then show us one that does not follow those rules then that has a reason.

Also, it’s not a headcanon that Rose meant more to the Doctor than River ever did.

Do you think he would have let Rose have to EVER break her own wrist to get out of a weeping angels grip?

Do you think he would have ever just accepted that Rose would die because he saw her death happening, since they meet in the incorrect order?

If you actually think he would have ever treated Rose like he treated River then you need a crash course in media literacy.

All very true. The teselecta married River after the Doctor said clearly he didn't want to marry her, but felt he had to once there was no other choice that would get River to listen to him.

We don’t have confirmation how River got his name. But it wasn’t at their „wedding“.

Also, I have joined the fandom more recently and have not been here since 2012, so to me it’s all fresh. If you have a problem with that, guess what? Scroll. But don’t come under my post or my friends reposts and act as if we are wrong, when we KNOW that we are right.

the doctor clearly views it as binding based on his actions in the husbands of river song; 13’s statements about her wife in legend of the sea devils etc

you’re allowed to not like it! i am not a particularly big fan of it. i much prefer ships like 4romana, 12clara and thasmin. but this shit about trying to prove your headcanons to be the objective truth is totally immature and silly behaviour

sure, “death of the author” and all, but it’s literally confirmed by all of the people who worked on the show at the time that they were portraying

If you take the time as an author or screenwriter or whatever to tell the audience how a proper timelord wedding goes, and then show us one that does not follow those rules then that has a reason.

Also, it’s not a headcanon that Rose meant more to the Doctor than River ever did.

Do you think he would have let Rose have to EVER break her own wrist to get out of a weeping angels grip?

Do you think he would have ever just accepted that Rose would die because he saw her death happening, since they meet in the incorrect order?

If you actually think he would have ever treated Rose like he treated River then you need a crash course in media literacy.

All very true. The teselecta married River after the Doctor said clearly he didn't want to marry her, but felt he had to once there was no other choice that would get River to listen to him.

We don’t have confirmation how River got his name. But it wasn’t at their „wedding“.

Also, I have joined the fandom more recently and have not been here since 2012, so to me it’s all fresh. If you have a problem with that, guess what? Scroll. But don’t come under my post or my friends reposts and act as if we are wrong, when we KNOW that we are right.

the doctor clearly views it as binding based on his actions in the husbands of river song; 13’s statements about her wife in legend of the sea devils etc

you’re allowed to not like it! i am not a particularly big fan of it. i much prefer ships like 4romana, 12clara and thasmin. but this shit about trying to prove your headcanons to be the objective truth is totally immature and silly behaviour

sure, “death of the author” and all, but it’s literally confirmed by all of the people who worked on the show at the time that they were portraying

All very true. The teselecta married River after the Doctor said clearly he didn't want to marry her, but felt he had to once there was no other choice that would get River to listen to him.

There is absolutely no possible reason an opinion or perspective would “make sense” in 2012 but not now. Media is timeless. There’s not some sort of magic expiration date on when people aren’t allowed to publicly say negative things about a character.

The Doctor being non monogamous is a headcanon people have. But there’s WAYYY more evidence of them being monogamous within canon than there is them being polyamorous. Look at the giant time gaps between the Doctor’s hard canonical love interests. You’re allowed to headcanon whatever you want and headcanon relationships that aren’t shown in canon but you can’t enforce the polyamorous thing like it’s law.

The hard canon romantic relationships the Doctor has had that have actually lasted more than five seconds are Charley Pollard, Rose Tyler, Clara Oswald, twisted as it is, River Song.? And Yasmin Khan. Now look at the time gaps between those. There was the entire Time War, several other Eight companions, and then 100 years traveling alone between Charley and Rose. There was then AT LEAST 400 years between Rose and Clara. The Doctor may have had River around at the same time as Clara but it took him completely forgetting Clara to show a modicum of affection towards River. They may have been in his life at the same time but the Doctor certainly didn’t fully engage in having feelings for them at the same time. Then it took another long gap and a regeneration for the Doctor to start being int Yaz. So no, polyamorous Doctor is not canonical. valid headcanon if you consider the non confirmed romances as ships you like, sure. Something you can lord over people? Absolutely not.

the reason this made sense in 2012 was because everyone was stupid and 14 years old and tumblr was on a weird anti moffat crusade. nowadays we like people who actually pay attention to the show, not make up weird headcanons where they distort the evidence to try and push weird agendas

you’re allowed to headcanon the doctor didn’t love river but that is not a textual reading of the show. you are actively inverting canon

the doctor, while in his romantic arc with rose, had a separate romance with madame de pompadour. he romanced clara while still married to river. he married marilyn monroe and variois other people. there’s plenty of evidence that shows the doctor isn’t monogamous, or at least isn’t always

“15 denies he is married” from his perspective she is long dead and has stopped showing up in his time stream. regardless, there is plenty of other times where they do refer to her as such, such as 13 with yaz. the episode also wasn’t written by moffat, so it doesn’t count towards what was conveyed in his era. a new writer could slip a line in the show in the future where the doctor says “i never loved rose tyler” and it would mean jackshit - a poor attempt to retcon what is obviously textually a thing in the RTD1 era

All very true. The teselecta married River after the Doctor said clearly he didn't want to marry her, but felt he had to once there was no other choice that would get River to listen to him.

This. Ask yourself “what did the Doctor do for River to prove his love?”

Nothing. He left her to the weeping angels.

But Rose. He BURNED UP A SUN JUST TO SAY GOODBYE. Did he have to do that? Absolutely not. She was in the parallel universe; he could have just moved on. But he couldn’t. He HAD to see her, even if one last time.

(And let’s not forget that he literally gave her a piece of himself too)

And had Rose asked him to get her; had she admitted SHE was the pregnant one, he would have stopped at nothing to get her back.

this just in from moffat hater brainrot:

if you are gay you are not allowed to like a man in any way shape or form (even if that man is nonbinary)

selflessness is annoying (even if it's for your friend, even if that friend is the most selfless person in the universe)

What annoyed me wasn't that the character is bi, sorry that was never what that tag was about. I'm sorry I didn't express that well enough for you. What annoyed me is this consistent pattern of female characters throwing themselves in the fire line for this man, no matter how much of a friend, when he consistently puts them into dangerous situations. That comment was meant to be a reference to the fact that just because the character is gay doesn't mean that this trope isn't getting boring and one note and annoying. What I'm actually saying here is that it doesn't matter if you've stopped the character from being romantically involved with the doctor, the actual trope of consistently bending over backwards and risking your own life is getting to be too much for me.

Selflessness is not the problem here. Its the fact that every character for a while has had these grandiose moments of selflessness, and their lives revolve around saving this man. I'd prefer to see a character be selfish and choose their own health over the doctors. Also, the doctor is not selfless. A lot of the time, he is selfish and sees himself as the be all end all of the world, "the oncoming storm," so to speak. That is what makes the character nuanced and special and intriguing.

Also, don't pretend that this character, despite being nonbinary, was not written for the past decade with masculinity and masculine toxic traits in mind. (Edit: I wrote a double negative accidentally, and it makes my point less clear for obvious reasons. What I mean to say here is that the doctor has had consistent "male" attributes that have continued across Jodie and into the new season.) Don't pretend that because Jodie was in it for a little bit, that it takes away from that. It's not a bad thing for a character to have the lived experience as a man for the better part of 60 years. You're allowed to comment on that aspect of the show and refer to the character as a he, as the doctor would himself currently. (Edit: The secondary poster raised an interesting point about Ncuti wanting this character to be referred to as they/them - that is my bad and I should not have assumed. However, I do not necessarily get that impression from the show and I do still feel that this is not explored well and there is still too many toxic traits of masculinity shown within the dynamic between him and his companion.)