Bad Wolf Unfiltered

This. Ask yourself “what did the Doctor do for River to prove his love?”

Nothing. He left her to the weeping angels.

But Rose. He BURNED UP A SUN JUST TO SAY GOODBYE. Did he have to do that? Absolutely not. She was in the parallel universe; he could have just moved on. But he couldn’t. He HAD to see her, even if one last time.

(And let’s not forget that he literally gave her a piece of himself too)

And had Rose asked him to get her; had she admitted SHE was the pregnant one, he would have stopped at nothing to get her back.

of course he didn’t have to but he did it because rose meant a lot to him. i am not denying that. the doctor loved rose!

what i don’t get is the implication he wouldn’t have done it for anyone else

he didn’t do it to amy and rory because for whatever reason moffat decided to write it so that the doctor could never talk to them again without destroying the entire universe for reasons that don’t entirely make sense, but whatever

moffat seemed to buy into the idea that it was impossible to change your own history more than RTD, but this all seems to be down to different writer philosophies. like river song’s death was a fixed event in the doctor’s history that he couldn’t reverse. maybe RTD would have written a way out of it, but moffat chose not to

but he did have the future doctor devise a way to save river’s life via the data ghost. he didn’t need to do that either, but clearly she meant enough to the future doctor that he could not bear to have her no longer exist, even only in digital form

And out of universe writer reasons and in universe canon of what happened are two different things. No, the writers themselves would not agree. But that doesn’t change the actual events and evidence we have.

And the fact that “I’m BURNING up a sun” directly implies actively destroying that sun btw.

This. Ask yourself “what did the Doctor do for River to prove his love?”

Nothing. He left her to the weeping angels.

But Rose. He BURNED UP A SUN JUST TO SAY GOODBYE. Did he have to do that? Absolutely not. She was in the parallel universe; he could have just moved on. But he couldn’t. He HAD to see her, even if one last time.

(And let’s not forget that he literally gave her a piece of himself too)

And had Rose asked him to get her; had she admitted SHE was the pregnant one, he would have stopped at nothing to get her back.

All very true. The teselecta married River after the Doctor said clearly he didn't want to marry her, but felt he had to once there was no other choice that would get River to listen to him.

We don’t have confirmation how River got his name. But it wasn’t at their „wedding“.

Also, I have joined the fandom more recently and have not been here since 2012, so to me it’s all fresh. If you have a problem with that, guess what? Scroll. But don’t come under my post or my friends reposts and act as if we are wrong, when we KNOW that we are right.

the doctor clearly views it as binding based on his actions in the husbands of river song; 13’s statements about her wife in legend of the sea devils etc

you’re allowed to not like it! i am not a particularly big fan of it. i much prefer ships like 4romana, 12clara and thasmin. but this shit about trying to prove your headcanons to be the objective truth is totally immature and silly behaviour

sure, “death of the author” and all, but it’s literally confirmed by all of the people who worked on the show at the time that they were portraying

If you take the time as an author or screenwriter or whatever to tell the audience how a proper timelord wedding goes, and then show us one that does not follow those rules then that has a reason.

Also, it’s not a headcanon that Rose meant more to the Doctor than River ever did.

Do you think he would have let Rose have to EVER break her own wrist to get out of a weeping angels grip?

Do you think he would have ever just accepted that Rose would die because he saw her death happening, since they meet in the incorrect order?

If you actually think he would have ever treated Rose like he treated River then you need a crash course in media literacy.

This. Ask yourself “what did the Doctor do for River to prove his love?”

Nothing. He left her to the weeping angels.

But Rose. He BURNED UP A SUN JUST TO SAY GOODBYE. Did he have to do that? Absolutely not. She was in the parallel universe; he could have just moved on. But he couldn’t. He HAD to see her, even if one last time.

(And let’s not forget that he literally gave her a piece of himself too)

And had Rose asked him to get her; had she admitted SHE was the pregnant one, he would have stopped at nothing to get her back.

All very true. The teselecta married River after the Doctor said clearly he didn't want to marry her, but felt he had to once there was no other choice that would get River to listen to him.

We don’t have confirmation how River got his name. But it wasn’t at their „wedding“.

Also, I have joined the fandom more recently and have not been here since 2012, so to me it’s all fresh. If you have a problem with that, guess what? Scroll. But don’t come under my post or my friends reposts and act as if we are wrong, when we KNOW that we are right.

the doctor clearly views it as binding based on his actions in the husbands of river song; 13’s statements about her wife in legend of the sea devils etc

you’re allowed to not like it! i am not a particularly big fan of it. i much prefer ships like 4romana, 12clara and thasmin. but this shit about trying to prove your headcanons to be the objective truth is totally immature and silly behaviour

sure, “death of the author” and all, but it’s literally confirmed by all of the people who worked on the show at the time that they were portraying

If you take the time as an author or screenwriter or whatever to tell the audience how a proper timelord wedding goes, and then show us one that does not follow those rules then that has a reason.

Also, it’s not a headcanon that Rose meant more to the Doctor than River ever did.

Do you think he would have let Rose have to EVER break her own wrist to get out of a weeping angels grip?

Do you think he would have ever just accepted that Rose would die because he saw her death happening, since they meet in the incorrect order?

If you actually think he would have ever treated Rose like he treated River then you need a crash course in media literacy.

All very true. The teselecta married River after the Doctor said clearly he didn't want to marry her, but felt he had to once there was no other choice that would get River to listen to him.

There is absolutely no possible reason an opinion or perspective would “make sense” in 2012 but not now. Media is timeless. There’s not some sort of magic expiration date on when people aren’t allowed to publicly say negative things about a character.

The Doctor being non monogamous is a headcanon people have. But there’s WAYYY more evidence of them being monogamous within canon than there is them being polyamorous. Look at the giant time gaps between the Doctor’s hard canonical love interests. You’re allowed to headcanon whatever you want and headcanon relationships that aren’t shown in canon but you can’t enforce the polyamorous thing like it’s law.

The hard canon romantic relationships the Doctor has had that have actually lasted more than five seconds are Charley Pollard, Rose Tyler, Clara Oswald, twisted as it is, River Song.? And Yasmin Khan. Now look at the time gaps between those. There was the entire Time War, several other Eight companions, and then 100 years traveling alone between Charley and Rose. There was then AT LEAST 400 years between Rose and Clara. The Doctor may have had River around at the same time as Clara but it took him completely forgetting Clara to show a modicum of affection towards River. They may have been in his life at the same time but the Doctor certainly didn’t fully engage in having feelings for them at the same time. Then it took another long gap and a regeneration for the Doctor to start being int Yaz. So no, polyamorous Doctor is not canonical. valid headcanon if you consider the non confirmed romances as ships you like, sure. Something you can lord over people? Absolutely not.

the reason this made sense in 2012 was because everyone was stupid and 14 years old and tumblr was on a weird anti moffat crusade. nowadays we like people who actually pay attention to the show, not make up weird headcanons where they distort the evidence to try and push weird agendas

you’re allowed to headcanon the doctor didn’t love river but that is not a textual reading of the show. you are actively inverting canon

the doctor, while in his romantic arc with rose, had a separate romance with madame de pompadour. he romanced clara while still married to river. he married marilyn monroe and variois other people. there’s plenty of evidence that shows the doctor isn’t monogamous, or at least isn’t always

“15 denies he is married” from his perspective she is long dead and has stopped showing up in his time stream. regardless, there is plenty of other times where they do refer to her as such, such as 13 with yaz. the episode also wasn’t written by moffat, so it doesn’t count towards what was conveyed in his era. a new writer could slip a line in the show in the future where the doctor says “i never loved rose tyler” and it would mean jackshit - a poor attempt to retcon what is obviously textually a thing in the RTD1 era

All very true. The teselecta married River after the Doctor said clearly he didn't want to marry her, but felt he had to once there was no other choice that would get River to listen to him.

There is absolutely no possible reason an opinion or perspective would “make sense” in 2012 but not now. Media is timeless. There’s not some sort of magic expiration date on when people aren’t allowed to publicly say negative things about a character.

The Doctor being non monogamous is a headcanon people have. But there’s WAYYY more evidence of them being monogamous within canon than there is them being polyamorous. Look at the giant time gaps between the Doctor’s hard canonical love interests. You’re allowed to headcanon whatever you want and headcanon relationships that aren’t shown in canon but you can’t enforce the polyamorous thing like it’s law.

The hard canon romantic relationships the Doctor has had that have actually lasted more than five seconds are Charley Pollard, Rose Tyler, Clara Oswald, twisted as it is, River Song.? And Yasmin Khan. Now look at the time gaps between those. There was the entire Time War, several other Eight companions, and then 100 years traveling alone between Charley and Rose. There was then AT LEAST 400 years between Rose and Clara. The Doctor may have had River around at the same time as Clara but it took him completely forgetting Clara to show a modicum of affection towards River. They may have been in his life at the same time but the Doctor certainly didn’t fully engage in having feelings for them at the same time. Then it took another long gap and a regeneration for the Doctor to start being int Yaz. So no, polyamorous Doctor is not canonical. valid headcanon if you consider the non confirmed romances as ships you like, sure. Something you can lord over people? Absolutely not.

the reason this made sense in 2012 was because everyone was stupid and 14 years old and tumblr was on a weird anti moffat crusade. nowadays we like people who actually pay attention to the show, not make up weird headcanons where they distort the evidence to try and push weird agendas

you’re allowed to headcanon the doctor didn’t love river but that is not a textual reading of the show. you are actively inverting canon

the doctor, while in his romantic arc with rose, had a separate romance with madame de pompadour. he romanced clara while still married to river. he married marilyn monroe and variois other people. there’s plenty of evidence that shows the doctor isn’t monogamous, or at least isn’t always

“15 denies he is married” from his perspective she is long dead and has stopped showing up in his time stream. regardless, there is plenty of other times where they do refer to her as such, such as 13 with yaz. the episode also wasn’t written by moffat, so it doesn’t count towards what was conveyed in his era. a new writer could slip a line in the show in the future where the doctor says “i never loved rose tyler” and it would mean jackshit - a poor attempt to retcon what is obviously textually a thing in the RTD1 era

All very true. The teselecta married River after the Doctor said clearly he didn't want to marry her, but felt he had to once there was no other choice that would get River to listen to him.

There is absolutely no possible reason an opinion or perspective would “make sense” in 2012 but not now. Media is timeless. There’s not some sort of magic expiration date on when people aren’t allowed to publicly say negative things about a character.

The Doctor being non monogamous is a headcanon people have. But there’s WAYYY more evidence of them being monogamous within canon than there is them being polyamorous. Look at the giant time gaps between the Doctor’s hard canonical love interests. You’re allowed to headcanon whatever you want and headcanon relationships that aren’t shown in canon but you can’t enforce the polyamorous thing like it’s law.

The hard canon romantic relationships the Doctor has had that have actually lasted more than five seconds are Charley Pollard, Rose Tyler, Clara Oswald, twisted as it is, River Song.? And Yasmin Khan. Now look at the time gaps between those. There was the entire Time War, several other Eight companions, and then 100 years traveling alone between Charley and Rose. There was then AT LEAST 400 years between Rose and Clara. The Doctor may have had River around at the same time as Clara but it took him completely forgetting Clara to show a modicum of affection towards River. They may have been in his life at the same time but the Doctor certainly didn’t fully engage in having feelings for them at the same time. Then it took another long gap and a regeneration for the Doctor to start being int Yaz. So no, polyamorous Doctor is not canonical. valid headcanon if you consider the non confirmed romances as ships you like, sure. Something you can lord over people? Absolutely not.

the reason this made sense in 2012 was because everyone was stupid and 14 years old and tumblr was on a weird anti moffat crusade. nowadays we like people who actually pay attention to the show, not make up weird headcanons where they distort the evidence to try and push weird agendas

you’re allowed to headcanon the doctor didn’t love river but that is not a textual reading of the show. you are actively inverting canon

the doctor, while in his romantic arc with rose, had a separate romance with madame de pompadour. he romanced clara while still married to river. he married marilyn monroe and variois other people. there’s plenty of evidence that shows the doctor isn’t monogamous, or at least isn’t always

“15 denies he is married” from his perspective she is long dead and has stopped showing up in his time stream. regardless, there is plenty of other times where they do refer to her as such, such as 13 with yaz. the episode also wasn’t written by moffat, so it doesn’t count towards what was conveyed in his era. a new writer could slip a line in the show in the future where the doctor says “i never loved rose tyler” and it would mean jackshit - a poor attempt to retcon what is obviously textually a thing in the RTD1 era

All very true. The teselecta married River after the Doctor said clearly he didn't want to marry her, but felt he had to once there was no other choice that would get River to listen to him.

There is absolutely no possible reason an opinion or perspective would “make sense” in 2012 but not now. Media is timeless. There’s not some sort of magic expiration date on when people aren’t allowed to publicly say negative things about a character.

The Doctor being non monogamous is a headcanon people have. But there’s WAYYY more evidence of them being monogamous within canon than there is them being polyamorous. Look at the giant time gaps between the Doctor’s hard canonical love interests. You’re allowed to headcanon whatever you want and headcanon relationships that aren’t shown in canon but you can’t enforce the polyamorous thing like it’s law.

The hard canon romantic relationships the Doctor has had that have actually lasted more than five seconds are Charley Pollard, Rose Tyler, Clara Oswald, twisted as it is, River Song.? And Yasmin Khan. Now look at the time gaps between those. There was the entire Time War, several other Eight companions, and then 100 years traveling alone between Charley and Rose. There was then AT LEAST 400 years between Rose and Clara. The Doctor may have had River around at the same time as Clara but it took him completely forgetting Clara to show a modicum of affection towards River. They may have been in his life at the same time but the Doctor certainly didn’t fully engage in having feelings for them at the same time. Then it took another long gap and a regeneration for the Doctor to start being int Yaz. So no, polyamorous Doctor is not canonical. valid headcanon if you consider the non confirmed romances as ships you like, sure. Something you can lord over people? Absolutely not.

All very true. The teselecta married River after the Doctor said clearly he didn't want to marry her, but felt he had to once there was no other choice that would get River to listen to him.

How can I, with brevity, sum up my feelings about when people ask me how I can possibly think the Doctor's true love is Clara and not his 'wife' River?

Clara: I'm going to die and I accept it. Please don't do anything stupid because you're hurting.

Doctor: I'm going to torture & kill myself again & again over the course of 4.5 billion years, go against everything I've ever stood for, my own people/planet & will destroy the universe itself if it means there's even a small chance to get you back.

River: I'm going to die and I don't want to. You can go fix it so that I don't.

Doctor: Yeah... no. It is what it is. Sorry, but you gots to go.

1. sexuality headcanon: I think she’s canon bi?

2. Otp: her and therapy

3. Brotp: I guess her and Amy but if she and the Doctor were only friends then it would be them

4. Notp: sorry elevenriver stans

5. First headcanon that pops into my head: she doesn’t like Star Trek

6. One way in which I relate to this character: I wanna kill the Doctor

7. Thing that gives me second hand embarrassment about this character: if I speak

You are so important! Humans oh how I love you!

Nine and Ten interacting with Rose/Martha/Donna like 95% of the time:

🧡 🥰 😀 🧡 🥰 😀 🧡

Eleven talking to River in the episode they get married:

It’s not funny, River. Reality is fatally compromised. Tell me you understand that.

I don’t want to marry you.

River! River, this is ridiculous. That would mean nothing to anyone. It’s insane. Worse, it’s stupid. You embarrass me.

I ask this because… I was there, Gandalf. I was there when 2010s Tumblr had Steven Moffat as this anti-feminist figurehead. Not helped by how they felt his Doctor Who run was too far a departure from RTD's.

And for the sake of sanity, let us not get into that of BBC’s Sherlock. Whole other can of worms there so… let’s keep focus.

Amy, River, Clara and Bill were always scrutinized heavily under this "bad female representation" preconception to the point of wildly inaccurate takes or, at the very least, takes that felt like they really wanted to hate Moffat first with maybe a side dish of constructive criticism.

This isn’t to wave away concerns that came from an honest place. Amy in terms of how she expressed her abandonment issues and fear of committing or Clara’s Impossible Girl storyline likely didn’t make a good impression.

Also there were sexual themes and innuendo that might’ve had a character purpose but… didn’t always land right.

And that's not even getting into River Song overall with her brand of polarization to this day.

However, I find that a lot of people often don't look beyond those surface level potential "fetish fuel" traits. Especially when interacting with fans as his run came out, many seemed to just skim the surface of Amy or River without diving deep.

Yet a lot of Tumblr users in that day actually enjoyed and related to the main female cast. Especially when Twelve came around, bringing out another side of Clara and Bill being a real treat. I feel like there's a more well round view of Moffat that doesn't overlook his flaws but also doesn't ignore aspects that viewers resonated with.

Meanwhile RTD in his first era has put effort into every single character he writes feeling real. And effort into all of them very much not being sex symbols and fetishes. The gag with Cassandra kissing the Doctor through Rose’s body was admittedly somewhat of a borderline sexist issue but it happened exactly once. The whole age gap thing is just something most people commonly accept in fiction when one character isn’t human. Time Lords don’t age and mature at the same rate as humans. It’s much much slower. The Doctor acts like a kid himself. He has never interacted with Rose as a minor so there wasn’t any grooming there unlike how Moffat likes to write women. Moffat did drop the red bicycle Christmas gift into Rose’s story. But when it was elaborated on as a short story by another writer, it was clear the Doctor never interacted with Rose as a child.