i think an interesting factor that is not acknowledged by fandom is what exactly is indicated in the text that cersei and jaime’s plan was and how old they were when they came up with it. this doesnt confirm that they will continue a sexual affair during a royal marriage, only to not be separated/be near eachother always. though i understand that cersei convinces jaime also through a passionate sexual act (not confirmed what degree) and it had an effect on jaime’s decision making, and they have experimented with sexual acts of some sort already as children, and there is no doubt in my mind that they have a skewed understanding of how they love each other like “our love is natural law”, but there are a lot of other things we know: everybody in the equation assumes there will be a royal marriage hence cersei would remain in KL and they would be “near each other always”, and an affair would be treason punishable by death. they do know it will not be the same as it was before because cersei will get married, even if jaime doesn’t. cersei was already infatuated with rhaegar, and says she expected and wanted to be his queen, wife, and the mother of his children. this is much later and a lot of other things happen, but the last time we know the twins have sex (cersei says “i fucked jaime” verbatim) is right before the wedding with robert, and after the married couple emerge from the sept, jaime is obviously distraught. why? wasn’t this the plan all along? ofc there is jealousy, but i argue that it may also be because they know this marks the end of the relationship. jaime is already at a point where he is pretty disillusioned with every other major value in his life that had previously defined his identity: honor, glory, knighthood, and heroism. and he gave up everything else he had, a lot of freedom/lands/titles etc, to be close to cersei, so all that remains to him is love (which is arguably the most important thing to him), which we know he also considers a vow, though more abstract and personal. cersei experiences disillusionment during the bedding when robert calls her lyanna. it is a similar epiphany to the crowd cheering for jaime after he is raised to the kg at harrenhal, him being content enough despite other aspects of this plan falling apart (he joined because of cersei, but “honor and glory played their part” & “that boy wanted to be ser arthur dayne.” aspirations for knighthood and heroism are clearly there) until actually finding out that aerys chose him as a pawn against tywin and not as a knight, his position is without much meaning, and he wants “to rip off his white cloak” but knows he can’t because, not only was he already selected, he had sworn the oaths now too. and of course, cersei’s experience also gets much worse from this point on, just like how jaime’s got worse as a kg, and how his understanding of so many things he idealized was torn apart, and he is confronted with how these things work and contradict in reality. but what i really want to highlight is that when they are at greenstone, about a year into the marriage, robert starts cheating on her with a female cousin:
cersei sends jaime to confirm her suspicions, and he returns with the question of “do you want him dead for it?” both of them are mad at robert for dishonoring her and breaking his marital vows, why would they be if they are already cheating too? i get that these are the lannister twins, but then cersei says “no. i want him horned.” horned means cucked, and the indication here is that robert had not been horned yet at this point. this is where the affair seems to fs officially start, there is no evidence for the contrary afaik, and i would argue that it happened primarily in retaliation against robert. destructive codependent incest spawning as a result of complex family dynamics, lannister exceptionalism, and parental abuse & neglect aside, at every turn it is highlighted that this affair is also a product of a lot of systemic issues and the twins’ disillusionment, but focusing more on cersei and her being stuck in an abusive and unwanted marriage: the husband is free to cheat on her with no risk or consequences, unlike her, and does so. the bitterness from this influences her to retaliate with an affair of her own. not to mention she is fighting back against her rapist the only way she can, and refuses to bear his children, which is again, the limited form of retaliation she has. she could accept jaime’s proposal to kill robert for her, but this could lead to jaime’s death (she outright says this in agot when she says that jaime would have killed robert even if it cost him his own life if he saw the bruises + the same proposal down the line could also threaten her life and the life of her children if this murder is investigated. + i do think part of her just wants revenge. she wants to retaliate in this way where she has the power). i just dont think people simplifying this situation and implying that “the twins intended and would 100% have ‘fucked up their own lives’ and ‘threatened the realm’ with an affair and treason bastard babies during a royal marriage no matter what.” stands. idk, maybe it is just my preference, but to me it makes sense that even with tywin’s rearing they couldve grown out of this dysfunctional relationship as they got older and gained maturity, but instead everything gets worse and pushes them into embracing the illusion of eachother more than ever.
@melrosing this is interesting because it really takes apart a major part of this (my read that cersei’s decision to plant her children on the throne was largely revenge and maybe even a reaction and initiated by robert cheating) but also seems to reinforce a lot of it. i wonder what jaime’s original intention with the affair was, especially when he was still an idealistic young boy who had sworn his vows that he intended to keep (he sure needed a lot to be pushed to break them.) young jaime was quite early brienne esque in my eyes re all of this. with cersei, im ngl i would’ve preferred if this wasn’t the case, but i also do like her hunger for power being so overbearing and always there and her revenge being directed at her world at large always and not just about robert. this does however make their reaction to robert cheating funny as all fuck though. i’m extrapolating a bit from ur descriptions though, what do u think the play says re this exactly/how does it frame it? like was there more that speaks to any of this?
