Dear Listeners

The series missed an opportunity to showcase Mehmed as Suleiman’s favoured heir in Season 2B.

So far, I find that the heavy Mustafa bias makes him decidedly unsympathetic as a character.

Instead of trying to sell the idea that Mustafa should be Sultan because he’s the Most Special Snowflake to ever snowflake in the history of Special Snowflakes, they could have highlighted the fact that he was faced with a disadvantage that no previous Sehzade was.

He was the only half-brother against four full brothers born to a woman their father loved so much that he threw out the rule book for her. Suleiman, Hürrem and their children formed a nuclear family in a system originally designed around the rule of “one mother, one son”. Why not show the impact that exclusion from that nuclear family would have on Mustafa, instead of trying to sell the idea that he’s everybody’s favourite brother?

Let Hürrem wield political influence like her historical counterpart, and Mustafa has even more reason to worry that the deck is stacked against him.

Show the tightrope that Mustafa has to walk when he needs to court external support and to impress with his achievements to give him a fighting chance at becoming Padishah but if he is too popular and too impressive, he’ll be seen as a threat, not just by his half-brothers but also by his father.

Instead of the nonsense about winning his brothers over so they stand by him when the time comes, Ibrahim could have impressed on him the need to win his brothers over so they didn’t ally against him when they were adults.

They could have had a tragic character forced to play a deadly game of thrones where the rules could change at any moment, and the Padishah could advantage or handicap players if he so chose, somebody who sought and earned approval from others that he couldn’t get from his father, and whose popularity and potential led to his father seeing him as a threat rather than a worthy successor.

It really is one of the greatest ironies to the show that all the show's efforts to depict Mustafa as a figure without flaw, the "perfect" heir, actually worked against just such efforts. What should be the meat of the character gets discarded in favor of rendering him overly flat and, more often than not, seemingly incredibly foolish and, much as people place this on Mehmed's head instead, naïve to the point of seeming a fool.

And that was just the impression I had watching the show!

Once I actually dug into the history, the writer in me just grew all the more frustrated because, just like you outlined, there's literally so much that could have been lent to the character that would've rendered the character fascinating but also easy to empathize with.

It's actually similar to how I often feel about his mother too since, whether she had fallen for Suleiman in some manner or not, I can only imagine how it must've struck her that, "Oh, the rules and traditions can be broken actually—I just wasn't good enough for them to try."

The very fact that, in real life, Suleiman was able to form a sort of insular little family for himself, all with the permission of his mother and others Mahidevran would've spent more time around and who are now fawning over the rising favorite, must have been a wound.

The writer in me apparently decided that I needed another maligned Queen to adopt, instead of letting me finish my Anne Boleyn or Daenerys Targaryen fics. Magnificent Century is too good at birthing plot bunnies. At least the two bunnies that were hopping most have combined, so hopefully it’ll work out. The brainstorming process is fun.

It's actually similar to how I often feel about his mother too since, whether she had fallen for Suleiman in some manner or not, I can only imagine how it must've struck her that, "Oh, the rules and traditions can be broken actually—I just wasn't good enough for them to try."

I think that the series did Mahidevran no favours as a character by not acknowledging what a huge deal it was that Suleiman broke the one mother, one son rule with Hürrem, and by having her as Haseki Sultan when the title was created specifically for Hürrem in history.

Imagine if, as a Şehzade, Suleiman bent the rules with Mahidevran by continuing a sexual relationship after Mustafa was born, relying on birth control to ensure that there was no second baby. In episode 3, instead of Mahidevran’s pregnancy being celebrated, there’s a question mark over whether it will be allowed to continue. Mahidevran could hope that Suleiman will welcome the pregnancy, now that they don’t have to worry about Selim I’s reaction, especially when Mustafa is his only surviving child. He does not, so it’s aborted to comply with the rule. Mahidevran could blame Hürrem if she believes that, if not for her, Suleiman would have wanted their baby.

Now imagine how she would feel if, when Hürrem becomes pregnant for the second time, Suleiman celebrates and never considers forcing an abortion on her.

Later, Suleiman breaks with centuries of tradition by freeing and marrying Hürrem, creating the title of Haseki Sultan for her, and making her the next highest-ranking woman after his mother.

From Mahidevran’s perspective, Suleiman’s willingness to throw out the rule book for Hürrem when he never considered doing the same for her would not just be hurtful, it would be frightening because of the potential threat to Mustafa. In theory, any Şehzade can claim the throne but, in practice, Suleiman has a lot of power to stack the deck. Not all sanjaks are equal, even if there’s no specific crown prince’s province. There must have been some that were basically dead end assignments, or that were unfavourable because the distance from Istanbul would mean that they’d be the last to know when the throne fell vacant.

The very fact that, in real life, Suleiman was able to form a sort of insular little family for himself, all with the permission of his mother and others Mahidevran would've spent more time around and who are now fawning over the rising favorite, must have been a wound.

One point I find fascinating is that, in the account of the incident with the Russian concubines, Hafsa Sultan was sorry that she had given the one gifted to her to Suleiman, took her back and married her off ASAP, so it wasn’t just Suleiman deferring to Hürrem’s feelings.

(There's been a small inkling of an idea in my head too of a fic that's just Mustafa reacting to the birth of each of his half-siblings. Because I think he started out close to Mehmed and Mihrimah and then, for all that proceeded them, the estrangement and differences between them seemed to grow.)

Tiny Mustafa went from being the apple of his father’s eye, told that “my Mustafa is worth the world”, to seeing his father dote on his half-siblings while spending less time with him and his mother. Even with Mehmed, he questioned whether his father would still love him, and whether he was still a Şehzade.

When Bayezid is born, and Suleiman is hugging Mehmed while Ayşe Hafsa cuddles Mihrimah in her lap, Middle-Sized Mustafa looks left out, as well as worried about the impact on his mother. He attends the naming ceremony (I think it’s the only one he attends, but I’m open to correction) but his expression is glum. I could see that being when it hits him that he’s something of an outsider in the family, and how it would spur him to want to impress Suleiman, not to mention have his father to himself for a change, by going on campaign.

Except, while Mahidevran falls pregnant, it tragically goes the same way it does in the show, while Hürrem realizes she's pregnant only after, giving birth to Mihrimah, who is beloved despite not being another hoped for boy. And so Suleiman keeps returning to Hürrem...and returning...all while Mahidevran grieves the chance that slipped through her fingers, in her eyes.

Oh! And, yes, it does seem like, in real life, Suleiman's family (outside of perhaps Fatma) weren't the horrible in-laws we see in the show. I do get some of the changes, though, because they had to draw on antagonists for her from somewhere! (In another life maybe it could've been the other concubine mothers of Suleiman who lost their children? I'm pondering...)

This, however, is the part where I turn into what I hope is only mild degrees of a dork as I realize ohmyGOD you're that Reganx. (In what's, no doubt, a song and dance you've heard before, yours were the first Tudor fan fics I read so, I'm having a goofy, "Beyonce?!" moment lol.)

It does, funnily enough, also make it a little less out of the blue (or so I hope) in bringing up that Suleiman thinking Mehmed to be "blessed" + the fact he's already prone in the show to have prophetic dreams thinking he's bound for the throne, makes me think of the fic where Henry has similar "visions" about Elizabeth and then becomes determined to make it real.

Given that Suleiman would, in all likelihood, be annoyed and angry if his mother made her approval of him trying to have more children by Hürrem conditional on him also trying with Mahidevran, I suspect that he would use Mahidevran’s miscarriage and Hürrem’s successful pregnancy as proof that Allah only approved of him continuing with Hürrem.

Ayşe Hafsa did Mahidevran no favours in canon when she kept pushing Suleiman on her behalf. He didn’t like being told that he couldn’t banish her to the Old Palace for beating Hürrem half to death (and I’m surprised that there was no callback to this when Hürrem was accused of murdering Ayşe, and banishment was not an unthinkable disgrace in her case). When she pretty much ordered him to reinstate Thursday night halvets for Mahidevran, with the threat of withholding her blessing if he did not, he repeatedly invited Mahidevran to his chamber but never touched her.

I do get some of the changes, though, because they had to draw on antagonists for her from somewhere! (In another life maybe it could've been the other concubine mothers of Suleiman who lost their children? I'm pondering...)

I suppose the problem with using the concubine mothers who had lost their children as Hürrem’s antagonists would have been that these women would have had little power or influence to use against her. Imagine if Gülfem was Hürrem’s chief antagonist. Ayşe Hafsa thought well of her, and she was Hatice’s closest friend, but would that be enough to allow her to make significant trouble for Hürrem if Ayşe Hafsa and Hatice had nothing against her?

I would have liked to see more character development from Ayşe Hafsa where her view of Hürrem gradually evolved, instead of her being Team Mahidevran to such a ridiculous extent.

As for Suleiman’s small army of sisters, you’d think that there’d be one of them who, even if she didn’t like Hürrem as a person, was pragmatic enough to back her as the probable winner.

This, however, is the part where I turn into what I hope is only mild degrees of a dork as I realize ohmyGOD you're that Reganx. (In what's, no doubt, a song and dance you've heard before, yours were the first Tudor fan fics I read so, I'm having a goofy, "Beyonce?!" moment lol.)

That’s me. Crippled with writer’s block, alas, but I’m hoping that Hürrem might help break that.

It does, funnily enough, also make it a little less out of the blue (or so I hope) in bringing up that Suleiman thinking Mehmed to be "blessed" + the fact he's already prone in the show to have prophetic dreams thinking he's bound for the throne, makes me think of the fic where Henry has similar "visions" about Elizabeth and then becomes determined to make it real.

That’s one of my favourites out of my stories. Henry being Henry, he never realised that there was a reason his visions stopped when he was told of Anne’s subsequent pregnancies, not when she conceived.

In fact, I could see it striking Suleiman even more since he dreams, not only of the infant Mehmed asleep on his throne, but of Mustafa (and Ibrahim) being the one to murder Mehmed (and all of his brothers along with Mihrimah and Hürrem).

Given Suleiman’s naive hope that his children wouldn’t spill their brothers’ blood over the throne, combined with him hearing Mahidevran tell Hürrem that her children would die, it wouldn’t have surprised me if he saw Mehmed’s ascension to the throne as the scenario in which the maximum number of his children could live, in the sense that he wouldn’t expect Selim, Bayezid or Cihangir to challenge Mehmed, even if Mustafa did.

If Mustafa had died in a riding accident when he snuck away from the Edirne encampment in episode 25*, for example, Suleiman and Hürrem’s children would all have been under five years old. Selim was a year old and Bayezid newborn. Under those circumstances, could they have been raised to support Mehmed as heir?

Oof, you're not at all wrong there.

I'm even more struck, in a way, through the idea of how Mahidevran might react to realizing that was what Suleiman thought or even just being told that it was the "will of Allah" that she not be allowed to keep her child. It might make her cling to the idea that it's her own "proof" that Mustafa is even more "blessed" in his own right, but there's also a part of me that wonders if she'd have the "traitorous" thought of, "Well, Allah was never my god to begin with, was He?"

The show really only depicts the origins of those real life enslaved people who have traditional tales told of how it occurred (Hürrem and Nurbanu, but even Ibrahim are examples of this) but where Mahidevran was actually from or the manner in which she was presented to Suleiman is one big question mark.

I often, based off the tale of the supposed beating, where Mahidevran launched a defense of her rank against Hürrem's own possible "unworthiness" to serve the sultan, I tend to think that Mahidevran was abducted young then trained as a "gift" (perhaps in comparison to Hürrem) but it could be that she remembers a time where she had a different life and religion.

Ayşe Hafsa did Mahidevran no favours in canon when she kept pushing Suleiman on her behalf.

I do think a lot of it had to do with how Mahidevran had been her choice for Suleiman since, in the show, and, if that didn't already put the other woman in her pocket, so to speak, the utter reliance Mahidevran had had to have on her after losing Suleiman's favor definitely did.

Still, for someone that proved an otherwise seasoned player of the game, boy, oh boy, did Ayşe Hafsa stumble over how to influence her son when it came to the women in his life. Her initial attempts to remove Hürrem from his interest either just made him more protective of her or made him determined to establish his authority over hers through possessing her despite his mother's disapproval.

I think she thought that, if she just pressed hard enough, that Suleiman would cave and accept Mahidevran back, but there was truly no reason for him too.

And I am forever frustrated over how she tries to claim Mahidevran sending poison to the sultan's table, threatening the lives of her son and future grandson, is just a "mistake." If there'd ever be a moment for her character to take the first turn against Mahidevran (perhaps the full break happens after Mahidevran tries to act the Valide before Suleiman's even dead? it felt like the writers were going that direction, but then nothing was done with it) it'd be in that moment.

(I agree with the idea that Ayşe Hafsa deserved the right to gradually change her opinion, basically! Perhaps with one of her daughters overtaking her as being the crueler force, particularly since if she was portrayed as a former slave since, if so, Hatice's words of Hürrem needing a reminder of "her place" would hit hard.)

As for Suleiman’s small army of sisters, you’d think that there’d be one of them who, even if she didn’t like Hürrem as a person, was pragmatic enough to back her as the probable winner.

You really would!

I mean, I'll admit, some of the struggle, I think, is that outside of Hatice (and a little bit of Beyhan?) the writers kind of...forgot? About Suleiman's other sisters? Until they needed a convenient bit for the plot.

Şah, if actually set up to be Suleiman's half-sister, might've been perfect for this, but I've also poked around at the idea of one of the other daughters having presented Mahmud's mother in a certain AU and backing Hürrem (per said concubine mother's request) after the woman dies.

That’s me. Crippled with writer’s block, alas, but I’m hoping that Hürrem might help break that.

I will say (not to pressure, I'm just excited 😅) that this fandom often has such a drought of fics that I hope so!

I fear there's a call for more writers that are able to remove the bias enough to treat all characters equally, rather than just indulging in obvious revenge fics. (I don't want to preach what people can write, not ever, it's just...a lot.)

If Mustafa had died in a riding accident when he snuck away from the Edirne encampment in episode 25*, for example, Suleiman and Hürrem’s children would all have been under five years old. Selim was a year old and Bayezid newborn. Under those circumstances, could they have been raised to support Mehmed as heir? * A death that couldn’t conceivably be blamed on Hürrem, who was the one who expressed concerns about the danger and Mustafa’s youth.

So, for starters? This is legit a fascinating AU.

It links back to what made Hürrem's sons so standout too, which was, for the very first time, those competing for the throne would be raised alongside on another. Before, while some interaction was bound to happen, brothers would be raised separately (no shared tutors like in the show) as a way to effect the gradual separation from that natural familial bond, but such a thing couldn't happen for any of Hürrem's sons.

Hence why, I often feel as if any of Suleiman's sons were going to wanderer around, swearing that, if he took the throne none of his brothers would be harmed, it'd be Mehmed, not Mustafa. (Plus, some tension in terms of Mustafa being able to ask, "All your brothers?" and never being able to receive a clear answer.)

In February 1553 (about 8 or so months before Mustafa's execution), one of the Venetian ambassadors would write an account that, while we do have to take it with a certain grain of salt since the man couldn't have actually witnessed it, does suggest that the idea of Mustafa being a threat to his sons from Hürrem was an actual fear of Suleiman's:

“God give you a long life, Your Majesty, but I still have hope to be Sultan; and when this doesn’t happen, whoever the new Sultan is, I won’t be sad, because nobody can be afraid of me.” 

[…]

Süleyman allegedly sighed and said: “My son, Mustafa will be Sultan and will deprive you all of your lives.”

If she’s feeling cynical, she could think that, if it had been the other way around, her daughter would be the sign that she wouldn’t have another son, while Hürrem’s miscarriage meant that she and Suleiman needed to try again.

I often, based off the tale of the supposed beating, where Mahidevran launched a defense of her rank against Hürrem's own possible "unworthiness" to serve the sultan, I tend to think that Mahidevran was abducted young then trained as a "gift" (perhaps in comparison to Hürrem) but it could be that she remembers a time where she had a different life and religion.

Whatever about the real Mahidevran, I suspect that the Mahidevran of the series was abducted as a child, given her preliminary training in a noble or royal household, and then gifted to Suleiman at some point after he went to Manisa as governor. She exhibits quite a strong element of snobbery towards Hürrem over being sold in a slave market, which suggests that she considers her own background more refined and respectable.

It interests me that the Hürrem of the series has such a short timeline between capture and arrival at the harem, which may not have been the case for her historical counterpart. For the character, I think that it contributes to her early rebelliousness, and it means that she didn’t have the pre-harem training that other concubines, including Mahidevran, had.

And I am forever frustrated over how she tries to claim Mahidevran sending poison to the sultan's table, threatening the lives of her son and future grandson, is just a "mistake." If there'd ever be a moment for her character to take the first turn against Mahidevran (perhaps the full break happens after Mahidevran tries to act the Valide before Suleiman's even dead? it felt like the writers were going that direction, but then nothing was done with it) it'd be in that moment.

Do you think that, if Mahidevran hadn’t lied about Hürrem provoking the beating by saying that she was going to exile her, Mustafa and Ayşe Hafsa, that the palace would be hers and they’d be in chains, Ayşe Hafsa would still have protected her, to the point of objecting to Suleiman sending her to the Old Palace?

After Mahidevran stole Hürrem’s ring, she said that it was the last time she’d protect her, so I wonder if she would have kept her word if Mahidevran had not led her to believe that Hürrem was on a mission to get rid of them all.

One of the things that frustrates me most about Ayşe Hafsa’s reaction to the poisoning is that she tries to gaslight Hürrem with a pitiful excuse for a cover story about spoiled cream when she could have very easily established herself as a protector.

They had a perfectly good scapegoat in Hasibe, and her “suicide” gave them a valid excuse not to be able to proceed further with the investigation. They could even theorise that Hasibe was motivated by jealousy over Hürrem being the only concubine Suleiman had looked at since their first night together. Pretty much every concubine could be argued to have motive to want Hürrem out of the way if she was perceived as the barrier between them and a chance at the Sultan’s bed, promotion to the favourites’ floor, and potentially bearing the Sultan’s child.

“Yes, you were poisoned. The culprit killed herself. I’m assigning you a food taster so it doesn’t happen again.”

Hürrem already wanted Ayşe Hafsa to accept her, so winning her over could have been easy.

I don’t think Ayşe Hafsa ever said anything to Mahidevran about the poisoning.

If Gülşah had been caught in the act of stabbing Gülnihal, would Ayşe Hafsa have fought against Mahidevran (who would be bound to be assumed to be involved) being exiled? If she did, would Suleiman listen, especially when, not so long ago, Hürrem was banished with much less evidence?

(I agree with the idea that Ayşe Hafsa deserved the right to gradually change her opinion, basically! Perhaps with one of her daughters overtaking her as being the crueler force, particularly since if she was portrayed as a former slave since, if so, Hatice's words of Hürrem needing a reminder of "her place" would hit hard.)

What if Ayşe Hafsa being a Crimean princess was portrayed as a myth that was fed to new arrivals to the harem to exalt the Sultan’s mother?

They’d need to tweak the family tree so that more of Suleiman’s siblings are half-siblings, but that would have been doable.

It’d mean no Aybige, which would be a loss, but an Ayşe Hafsa who has more in common with her son’s concubines than her daughter(s) could have been fascinating. If the brothers Suleiman lost were half-brothers by different concubines, how would she feel about her son having four sons by one mother, and one son by another? It would also impact her view of Suleiman marrying Hürrem if Selim I never even considered doing the same for her.

I will say (not to pressure, I'm just excited 😅) that this fandom often has such a drought of fics that I hope so!

I’m excited to give it a stab.

The idea I’m playing with at the moment combines two What Ifs that grabbed my attention: What if Leo never came to Constantinople? and What if Suleiman was a loving, faithful husband?

Originally separate ideas, but they merged.

This is legit a fascinating AU.

Thanks.

I’d feel terrible for poor Mahidevran in that scenario, especially as she encouraged the idea of Mustafa going on campaign. Not that she was alone in that; Ayşe Hafsa and Hatice both seemed supportive. Suleiman only intended to let Mustafa watch the preparations, not to go on campaign. The timing would also be awful, given that Hürrem would literally be just out of bed after the birth of Baby #4/Son #3 when they got the news of Mustafa’s death.

Hence why, I often feel as if any of Suleiman's sons were going to wanderer around, swearing that, if he took the throne none of his brothers would be harmed, it'd be Mehmed, not Mustafa. (Plus, some tension in terms of Mustafa being able to ask, "All your brothers?" and never being able to receive a clear answer.)

To be fair, Mustafa probably wouldn’t give a clear answer about whether he’d challenge Mehmed for the throne.

Particularly since it draws on further parallels for Hürrem to have with Ibrahim as a narrative foil since both of them would've achieved meteoric rises that overlooked others that had been their longer and felt more deserving. (Nigar's rather young for her own position too, so it could similarly be a similar case for her that influences how she guides Hürrem.)

Do you think that, if Mahidevran hadn’t lied about Hürrem provoking the beating by saying that she was going to exile her, Mustafa and Ayşe Hafsa, that the palace would be hers and they’d be in chains, Ayşe Hafsa would still have protected her, to the point of objecting to Suleiman sending her to the Old Palace?

It will sound silly, I know, but this is a hard one to tell for sure, if only because, in my mind, Ayşe Hafsa's moment of, "Oh, no, not that one," came when Daye reported Hürrem's boast to her, despite having left too early to realize it to be a joke.

But, at the same time, like other reactions from her that have been brought up, that Ayşe Hafsa takes such offense over this is, honestly, quite strange.

It's similar to the reaction I have when people try claiming Hürrem entirely at fault for antagonizing Ibrahim since, at that point in time, she can be easily perceived as little more than a teenage girl on a power trip, carried away and making foolish boasts or threats. She literally can't be the first harem occupant to have behaved as such, so, if anything, the likes of Ayşe Hafsa and Ibrahim, who have established themselves far before her time, are more likely to laugh at her claims than take them seriously. (Akin to how Mahidevran actually winds up doing when Fidan tries to accuse Rümeysa of being the same.)

For her to order Daye to keep an eye on Hürrem, particularly given the rebelliousness already present in her, only makes sense, but it's similar to what you said about the whole poisoning incident in that wouldn't a true veteran of the harem realize that you need to get this girl to see the merits of being on your side as quickly as possible?

A Hürrem well-cared for by Ayşe Hafsa would be prone to be loyal to her, which would make her less inclined to act out and able to be kept an eye on (perhaps advocating for the Valide's side towards Suleiman once Mahidevran proves unable to keep favor).

But, nope, she just continually makes her own enemy...

Still, sorry, I'm getting off topic lol!

I'm not quite sure how much Ayşe Hafsa believes Mahidevran's claim about Hürrem here? I might be giving her too much credit, but, surely, anyone with even half a functioning brain cell would have to know anyone caught in such circumstances would want to project how it wasn't their fault and Mahidevran, in claiming Hürrem singled out even the but the Valide too, is laying it on thick.

But...given how the show operates? It really could go either way in the end.

If Gülşah had been caught in the act of stabbing Gülnihal, would Ayşe Hafsa have fought against Mahidevran (who would be bound to be assumed to be involved) being exiled? If she did, would Suleiman listen, especially when, not so long ago, Hürrem was banished with much less evidence?

So, while I wish, at times, this was more consistently communicated in people's reactions to her, the motivation to overprotect Mahidevran has less to do with herself and much more to do with her son. If you want Mustafa to succeed, then you need to ensure his mother's reputation is kept clean.

Gülşah might find herself quietly dispatched in an "accident," but they'd fight to keep Mahidevran's hands clean, I think. Although I'd live for a greater tension between herself and Ayşe Hafsa where the Valide Sultan, rather than replacing Hürrem's servants and restricting her movements, does all that to Mahidevran instead.

Removed of allies and under constant monitoring, I fear how Mahidevran would behave given her tendency to act rashly and have her own brand of emotional breakdowns (earned, to be fair, but still).

What if Ayşe Hafsa being a Crimean princess was portrayed as a myth that was fed to new arrivals to the harem to exalt the Sultan’s mother?

The loss of Aybige is hard (I'd want to bring her back somehow, but would she still be herself in a tweaked version of her story? I hope so!) but I do think this'd be great since it's a sort of, "Well, fuck you, if I need to create a new me, I'll write the story," approach to the new identities given while enslaved (and the expectation that it'd replace you're old one).

The idea of Nurbanu being a servant only pretending to be a noble, has been suggested around here before too, so I think that'd make for a nice parallel too between the two women's narratives.

The idea I’m playing with at the moment combines two What Ifs that grabbed my attention: What if Leo never came to Constantinople? and What if Suleiman was a loving, faithful husband? Originally separate ideas, but they merged.

Ooh, excited to see how these merged. (Making Suleiman less of a horrible husband is always my jam, though, I'll admit.)

I do wonder, in the AU where poor Mustafa dies young, if Mahidevran, unable to deal with her grief, might try to find some way to still blame Hürrem, despite it being clear she's not at fault. (Although I hope she finds a little bit of peace somewhere along the way.)

I have trouble believing that Mustafa would just accept Mehmed being designated as Suleiman’s heir.

always moments [24/?] ⤷ 7.15 — “Reckoning”

CASTLE / THE X-FILES 5.07 "Swan Song" / 7.12 "X-Cops"

The series missed an opportunity to showcase Mehmed as Suleiman’s favoured heir in Season 2B.

So far, I find that the heavy Mustafa bias makes him decidedly unsympathetic as a character.

Instead of trying to sell the idea that Mustafa should be Sultan because he’s the Most Special Snowflake to ever snowflake in the history of Special Snowflakes, they could have highlighted the fact that he was faced with a disadvantage that no previous Sehzade was.

He was the only half-brother against four full brothers born to a woman their father loved so much that he threw out the rule book for her. Suleiman, Hürrem and their children formed a nuclear family in a system originally designed around the rule of “one mother, one son”. Why not show the impact that exclusion from that nuclear family would have on Mustafa, instead of trying to sell the idea that he’s everybody’s favourite brother?

Let Hürrem wield political influence like her historical counterpart, and Mustafa has even more reason to worry that the deck is stacked against him.

Show the tightrope that Mustafa has to walk when he needs to court external support and to impress with his achievements to give him a fighting chance at becoming Padishah but if he is too popular and too impressive, he’ll be seen as a threat, not just by his half-brothers but also by his father.

Instead of the nonsense about winning his brothers over so they stand by him when the time comes, Ibrahim could have impressed on him the need to win his brothers over so they didn’t ally against him when they were adults.

They could have had a tragic character forced to play a deadly game of thrones where the rules could change at any moment, and the Padishah could advantage or handicap players if he so chose, somebody who sought and earned approval from others that he couldn’t get from his father, and whose popularity and potential led to his father seeing him as a threat rather than a worthy successor.

It really is one of the greatest ironies to the show that all the show's efforts to depict Mustafa as a figure without flaw, the "perfect" heir, actually worked against just such efforts. What should be the meat of the character gets discarded in favor of rendering him overly flat and, more often than not, seemingly incredibly foolish and, much as people place this on Mehmed's head instead, naïve to the point of seeming a fool.

And that was just the impression I had watching the show!

Once I actually dug into the history, the writer in me just grew all the more frustrated because, just like you outlined, there's literally so much that could have been lent to the character that would've rendered the character fascinating but also easy to empathize with.

It's actually similar to how I often feel about his mother too since, whether she had fallen for Suleiman in some manner or not, I can only imagine how it must've struck her that, "Oh, the rules and traditions can be broken actually—I just wasn't good enough for them to try."

The very fact that, in real life, Suleiman was able to form a sort of insular little family for himself, all with the permission of his mother and others Mahidevran would've spent more time around and who are now fawning over the rising favorite, must have been a wound.

The writer in me apparently decided that I needed another maligned Queen to adopt, instead of letting me finish my Anne Boleyn or Daenerys Targaryen fics. Magnificent Century is too good at birthing plot bunnies. At least the two bunnies that were hopping most have combined, so hopefully it’ll work out. The brainstorming process is fun.

It's actually similar to how I often feel about his mother too since, whether she had fallen for Suleiman in some manner or not, I can only imagine how it must've struck her that, "Oh, the rules and traditions can be broken actually—I just wasn't good enough for them to try."

I think that the series did Mahidevran no favours as a character by not acknowledging what a huge deal it was that Suleiman broke the one mother, one son rule with Hürrem, and by having her as Haseki Sultan when the title was created specifically for Hürrem in history.

Imagine if, as a Şehzade, Suleiman bent the rules with Mahidevran by continuing a sexual relationship after Mustafa was born, relying on birth control to ensure that there was no second baby. In episode 3, instead of Mahidevran’s pregnancy being celebrated, there’s a question mark over whether it will be allowed to continue. Mahidevran could hope that Suleiman will welcome the pregnancy, now that they don’t have to worry about Selim I’s reaction, especially when Mustafa is his only surviving child. He does not, so it’s aborted to comply with the rule. Mahidevran could blame Hürrem if she believes that, if not for her, Suleiman would have wanted their baby.

Now imagine how she would feel if, when Hürrem becomes pregnant for the second time, Suleiman celebrates and never considers forcing an abortion on her.

Later, Suleiman breaks with centuries of tradition by freeing and marrying Hürrem, creating the title of Haseki Sultan for her, and making her the next highest-ranking woman after his mother.

From Mahidevran’s perspective, Suleiman’s willingness to throw out the rule book for Hürrem when he never considered doing the same for her would not just be hurtful, it would be frightening because of the potential threat to Mustafa. In theory, any Şehzade can claim the throne but, in practice, Suleiman has a lot of power to stack the deck. Not all sanjaks are equal, even if there’s no specific crown prince’s province. There must have been some that were basically dead end assignments, or that were unfavourable because the distance from Istanbul would mean that they’d be the last to know when the throne fell vacant.

The very fact that, in real life, Suleiman was able to form a sort of insular little family for himself, all with the permission of his mother and others Mahidevran would've spent more time around and who are now fawning over the rising favorite, must have been a wound.

One point I find fascinating is that, in the account of the incident with the Russian concubines, Hafsa Sultan was sorry that she had given the one gifted to her to Suleiman, took her back and married her off ASAP, so it wasn’t just Suleiman deferring to Hürrem’s feelings.

(There's been a small inkling of an idea in my head too of a fic that's just Mustafa reacting to the birth of each of his half-siblings. Because I think he started out close to Mehmed and Mihrimah and then, for all that proceeded them, the estrangement and differences between them seemed to grow.)

Tiny Mustafa went from being the apple of his father’s eye, told that “my Mustafa is worth the world”, to seeing his father dote on his half-siblings while spending less time with him and his mother. Even with Mehmed, he questioned whether his father would still love him, and whether he was still a Şehzade.

When Bayezid is born, and Suleiman is hugging Mehmed while Ayşe Hafsa cuddles Mihrimah in her lap, Middle-Sized Mustafa looks left out, as well as worried about the impact on his mother. He attends the naming ceremony (I think it’s the only one he attends, but I’m open to correction) but his expression is glum. I could see that being when it hits him that he’s something of an outsider in the family, and how it would spur him to want to impress Suleiman, not to mention have his father to himself for a change, by going on campaign.

Except, while Mahidevran falls pregnant, it tragically goes the same way it does in the show, while Hürrem realizes she's pregnant only after, giving birth to Mihrimah, who is beloved despite not being another hoped for boy. And so Suleiman keeps returning to Hürrem...and returning...all while Mahidevran grieves the chance that slipped through her fingers, in her eyes.

Oh! And, yes, it does seem like, in real life, Suleiman's family (outside of perhaps Fatma) weren't the horrible in-laws we see in the show. I do get some of the changes, though, because they had to draw on antagonists for her from somewhere! (In another life maybe it could've been the other concubine mothers of Suleiman who lost their children? I'm pondering...)

This, however, is the part where I turn into what I hope is only mild degrees of a dork as I realize ohmyGOD you're that Reganx. (In what's, no doubt, a song and dance you've heard before, yours were the first Tudor fan fics I read so, I'm having a goofy, "Beyonce?!" moment lol.)

It does, funnily enough, also make it a little less out of the blue (or so I hope) in bringing up that Suleiman thinking Mehmed to be "blessed" + the fact he's already prone in the show to have prophetic dreams thinking he's bound for the throne, makes me think of the fic where Henry has similar "visions" about Elizabeth and then becomes determined to make it real.

Given that Suleiman would, in all likelihood, be annoyed and angry if his mother made her approval of him trying to have more children by Hürrem conditional on him also trying with Mahidevran, I suspect that he would use Mahidevran’s miscarriage and Hürrem’s successful pregnancy as proof that Allah only approved of him continuing with Hürrem.

Ayşe Hafsa did Mahidevran no favours in canon when she kept pushing Suleiman on her behalf. He didn’t like being told that he couldn’t banish her to the Old Palace for beating Hürrem half to death (and I’m surprised that there was no callback to this when Hürrem was accused of murdering Ayşe, and banishment was not an unthinkable disgrace in her case). When she pretty much ordered him to reinstate Thursday night halvets for Mahidevran, with the threat of withholding her blessing if he did not, he repeatedly invited Mahidevran to his chamber but never touched her.

I do get some of the changes, though, because they had to draw on antagonists for her from somewhere! (In another life maybe it could've been the other concubine mothers of Suleiman who lost their children? I'm pondering...)

I suppose the problem with using the concubine mothers who had lost their children as Hürrem’s antagonists would have been that these women would have had little power or influence to use against her. Imagine if Gülfem was Hürrem’s chief antagonist. Ayşe Hafsa thought well of her, and she was Hatice’s closest friend, but would that be enough to allow her to make significant trouble for Hürrem if Ayşe Hafsa and Hatice had nothing against her?

I would have liked to see more character development from Ayşe Hafsa where her view of Hürrem gradually evolved, instead of her being Team Mahidevran to such a ridiculous extent.

As for Suleiman’s small army of sisters, you’d think that there’d be one of them who, even if she didn’t like Hürrem as a person, was pragmatic enough to back her as the probable winner.

This, however, is the part where I turn into what I hope is only mild degrees of a dork as I realize ohmyGOD you're that Reganx. (In what's, no doubt, a song and dance you've heard before, yours were the first Tudor fan fics I read so, I'm having a goofy, "Beyonce?!" moment lol.)

That’s me. Crippled with writer’s block, alas, but I’m hoping that Hürrem might help break that.

It does, funnily enough, also make it a little less out of the blue (or so I hope) in bringing up that Suleiman thinking Mehmed to be "blessed" + the fact he's already prone in the show to have prophetic dreams thinking he's bound for the throne, makes me think of the fic where Henry has similar "visions" about Elizabeth and then becomes determined to make it real.

That’s one of my favourites out of my stories. Henry being Henry, he never realised that there was a reason his visions stopped when he was told of Anne’s subsequent pregnancies, not when she conceived.

In fact, I could see it striking Suleiman even more since he dreams, not only of the infant Mehmed asleep on his throne, but of Mustafa (and Ibrahim) being the one to murder Mehmed (and all of his brothers along with Mihrimah and Hürrem).

Given Suleiman’s naive hope that his children wouldn’t spill their brothers’ blood over the throne, combined with him hearing Mahidevran tell Hürrem that her children would die, it wouldn’t have surprised me if he saw Mehmed’s ascension to the throne as the scenario in which the maximum number of his children could live, in the sense that he wouldn’t expect Selim, Bayezid or Cihangir to challenge Mehmed, even if Mustafa did.

If Mustafa had died in a riding accident when he snuck away from the Edirne encampment in episode 25*, for example, Suleiman and Hürrem’s children would all have been under five years old. Selim was a year old and Bayezid newborn. Under those circumstances, could they have been raised to support Mehmed as heir?

Oof, you're not at all wrong there.

I'm even more struck, in a way, through the idea of how Mahidevran might react to realizing that was what Suleiman thought or even just being told that it was the "will of Allah" that she not be allowed to keep her child. It might make her cling to the idea that it's her own "proof" that Mustafa is even more "blessed" in his own right, but there's also a part of me that wonders if she'd have the "traitorous" thought of, "Well, Allah was never my god to begin with, was He?"

The show really only depicts the origins of those real life enslaved people who have traditional tales told of how it occurred (Hürrem and Nurbanu, but even Ibrahim are examples of this) but where Mahidevran was actually from or the manner in which she was presented to Suleiman is one big question mark.

I often, based off the tale of the supposed beating, where Mahidevran launched a defense of her rank against Hürrem's own possible "unworthiness" to serve the sultan, I tend to think that Mahidevran was abducted young then trained as a "gift" (perhaps in comparison to Hürrem) but it could be that she remembers a time where she had a different life and religion.

Ayşe Hafsa did Mahidevran no favours in canon when she kept pushing Suleiman on her behalf.

I do think a lot of it had to do with how Mahidevran had been her choice for Suleiman since, in the show, and, if that didn't already put the other woman in her pocket, so to speak, the utter reliance Mahidevran had had to have on her after losing Suleiman's favor definitely did.

Still, for someone that proved an otherwise seasoned player of the game, boy, oh boy, did Ayşe Hafsa stumble over how to influence her son when it came to the women in his life. Her initial attempts to remove Hürrem from his interest either just made him more protective of her or made him determined to establish his authority over hers through possessing her despite his mother's disapproval.

I think she thought that, if she just pressed hard enough, that Suleiman would cave and accept Mahidevran back, but there was truly no reason for him too.

And I am forever frustrated over how she tries to claim Mahidevran sending poison to the sultan's table, threatening the lives of her son and future grandson, is just a "mistake." If there'd ever be a moment for her character to take the first turn against Mahidevran (perhaps the full break happens after Mahidevran tries to act the Valide before Suleiman's even dead? it felt like the writers were going that direction, but then nothing was done with it) it'd be in that moment.

(I agree with the idea that Ayşe Hafsa deserved the right to gradually change her opinion, basically! Perhaps with one of her daughters overtaking her as being the crueler force, particularly since if she was portrayed as a former slave since, if so, Hatice's words of Hürrem needing a reminder of "her place" would hit hard.)

As for Suleiman’s small army of sisters, you’d think that there’d be one of them who, even if she didn’t like Hürrem as a person, was pragmatic enough to back her as the probable winner.

You really would!

I mean, I'll admit, some of the struggle, I think, is that outside of Hatice (and a little bit of Beyhan?) the writers kind of...forgot? About Suleiman's other sisters? Until they needed a convenient bit for the plot.

Şah, if actually set up to be Suleiman's half-sister, might've been perfect for this, but I've also poked around at the idea of one of the other daughters having presented Mahmud's mother in a certain AU and backing Hürrem (per said concubine mother's request) after the woman dies.

That’s me. Crippled with writer’s block, alas, but I’m hoping that Hürrem might help break that.

I will say (not to pressure, I'm just excited 😅) that this fandom often has such a drought of fics that I hope so!

I fear there's a call for more writers that are able to remove the bias enough to treat all characters equally, rather than just indulging in obvious revenge fics. (I don't want to preach what people can write, not ever, it's just...a lot.)

If Mustafa had died in a riding accident when he snuck away from the Edirne encampment in episode 25*, for example, Suleiman and Hürrem’s children would all have been under five years old. Selim was a year old and Bayezid newborn. Under those circumstances, could they have been raised to support Mehmed as heir? * A death that couldn’t conceivably be blamed on Hürrem, who was the one who expressed concerns about the danger and Mustafa’s youth.

So, for starters? This is legit a fascinating AU.

It links back to what made Hürrem's sons so standout too, which was, for the very first time, those competing for the throne would be raised alongside on another. Before, while some interaction was bound to happen, brothers would be raised separately (no shared tutors like in the show) as a way to effect the gradual separation from that natural familial bond, but such a thing couldn't happen for any of Hürrem's sons.

Hence why, I often feel as if any of Suleiman's sons were going to wanderer around, swearing that, if he took the throne none of his brothers would be harmed, it'd be Mehmed, not Mustafa. (Plus, some tension in terms of Mustafa being able to ask, "All your brothers?" and never being able to receive a clear answer.)

In February 1553 (about 8 or so months before Mustafa's execution), one of the Venetian ambassadors would write an account that, while we do have to take it with a certain grain of salt since the man couldn't have actually witnessed it, does suggest that the idea of Mustafa being a threat to his sons from Hürrem was an actual fear of Suleiman's:

“God give you a long life, Your Majesty, but I still have hope to be Sultan; and when this doesn’t happen, whoever the new Sultan is, I won’t be sad, because nobody can be afraid of me.” 

[…]

Süleyman allegedly sighed and said: “My son, Mustafa will be Sultan and will deprive you all of your lives.”