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@pukephoria

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Sylvia Riveras powerful speech against the exclusion of transgender people at the Gay Pride Rally NYC, 1973.
Transcript:
Y'all better quiet down! I've been trying to get up here all day for your gay brothers and your gay sisters in jail that write me every motherfucking week and ask for your help! And you all don't do a goddamn thing for them! And they write STAR, not the woman's group! They do not write women, they do not write men, they write to STAR! Because we're trying to do something for them! But you all tell me to go and hide my tail between my legs! I will not put up with this shit! I have been beaten, I have had my nose broken, I have been thrown in jail, I have lost my job, I have lost my apartment for gay liberation, and you all treat me this way?! What the fuck's wrong with you all?! Think about that! I believe in the gay power, I believe in us getting our rights, or else I would not be out there fighting for our rights, that's all I wanted to say to you people. Come and see people at STAR House on Twelfth Street, the people that are trying to do something for all of us, and not men and women that belong to our white middle class club! And that's what you all belong to! Revolution now! Gay power! Know the gay power!
Sylvia Rivera (holding the banner), and Marsha P. Johnson (with cooler) of the Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries (STAR.) at the Christopher Street Liberation Day, Gay Pride Parade, NYC (24 June 1973). Photographer Leonard Fink. Reprinted, by permission, from the National History Archive of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender Community Center.
For historical context: Sylvia Rivera was talking about the radical Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries (STAR) group that she and Marsha P. Johnson founded together in 1970. Together, they ran the S.T.A.R. House, where they pooled every last penny they had to provide a home for young street queens (mostly sex workers, mostly people of color). By the time of this speech (1973) their (gay) landlord had evicted the original STAR House, and they were struggling to keep it going at a new location and desperately needed the LGBTQ+ community to step it up with financial support.
That's what she's talking about when she says "I've been trying to get up here all day for your gay brothers and your gay sisters in jail that write me every motherfucking week and ask for your help!" She's condemning the white gay cis monied audience before her for turning their backs on the trans and gay people in NYC suffering the most. She's saying that despite the fact STAR had almost nothing, and faced the worst violence from the state, that they were still fighting to help the trans AND cis unhoused and incarcerated people of color left behind by the most privileged. And still the Gay Pride organizers didn't want to let her onstage to ask people to actually help gay and trans people stay alive.
Despite her pain and rage at the cruelty of this supposed community, she ends with the invitation: "Come and see people at STAR House on Twelfth Street, the people that are trying to do something for all of us, and not men and women that belong to our white middle class club."
In 2024, STAR is long disbanded and both founders have passed on, but their work continues on with STARR (the Strategic Trans Alliance For Radical Reform), The Sylvia Rivera Food Pantry and Marsha's House.
I'm sorry if this is an ignorant or misinformed question, but it just keeps nagging at me. When you say trans men weaponize their agab to shout down trans women trying to discuss their oppression, is that not equal if opposite to the de- and misgendering done to trans women? Like I can recognize the material differences at play here, given both arguements come from the same camp, but on some level I can't help but feel even entertaining that rhetoric sorta undermines the whole counter-arguement?
the problem in both cases is the bioessentialism. if a trans man brings up his agab to paint himself as the fragile victim and a trans woman as the violent aggressor, his strategy relies on bioessentialist assumptions about sex and gender. and if assumptions are made about a trans woman because of her agab or she's degendered/misgendered about it, that's bioessentialist too. I don't see a contradiction there--in both cases, agab is being weaponized against trans women
i would argue there is literally not even two separate cases here. i would completely say there's no material differences and the weaponising of "afab-ness" is explicitly just demonising "amab" women and nonbinary people
Strictly speaking cis woman TWERFs and trans man TWERFs can both weaponise AGAB against trans women, but like. a cis TWERF would just call it "bio sex" or something, so with that in mind the focus lies on trans man or TME nonbinary TWERFs.
When a TWERF like this weaponises AGAB, this materialises in one of two ways, as anon has noted:
"Trans women are dangerous because they are AMAB"; or
"Trans men are more oppressed because we are AFAB"
You'll note that the throughline here is reducing all trans people to their AGAB. This, obviously, is just a parroting of TWERF rhetoric but pretending like AGAB is more valid use here than "sex" (frankly, I would argue the use of AGAB is more insidious than just using "sex", because sex can fucking change. AGAB language is more beneficial for TWERFism than fucking "biological female" could ever be. I digress.)
So, with that out of the way: Reducing a trans person to their AGAB is the same act in both cases, but the rhetoric is still different between the two groups, right?
I would say there's still no meaningful difference. The key words in the above two statements are "dangerous" and "oppressed," which begs the question: Dangerous to whom? Oppressed by whom?
AGAB is a binary system. It's based on false pretenses, but it is a binary in function.
The only possible answers to those questions are the other side of the binary.
"Trans women are dangerous and oppressive to trans men, because they are AMAB and we are AFAB."
It's one ideology. One tactic.
A trans man who states his AFAB-ness makes his position more defensible than a trans woman is explicitly degendering himself and implicitly degendering that trans woman.
A trans man who says our AMAB-ness makes trans women less acceptable in women's spaces is explicitly degendering us and implicitly degendering himself in the process.
This is why we call trans men who attack the basic principles of transfeminism by weaponising their AGAB TWERFs. It's because their rhetoric is no different than a TWERF calling trans women biological males. It's arguably even stronger.
Do I gotta say anything here
if these are the people opposing transfeminism then i'm certain i'm on the right side of history by being a transfeminist.
A section of Miss Major's Wikipedia page.
A trans sex worker named Puppy over 50 years ago getting murdered inspiring her to act more deliberately and collectively for the safety of trans sex workers. "...the start of her activism...."
"Since no one was going to do it for us, we had to do it for ourselves."
You cut off an important part.
Stonewall became the epicenter of rebellion because it was one of the few queer bars that let trans women in.
The article also touches on how drag balls were originally created by trans women for trans women.
The entire subculture was appropriated by cis gay men in the late 60's who then barred trans women from participating.
The "queer culture" that so many tme people are eager to preserve is a culture of our exclusion. They're eager to take the art we create, the movements we start, they're glad to have us fight for their rights, and then kick us to the curb while saying it's "not the time" for our rights to be defended. They sing the praises of women like Miss Major while attending "afab only" events. They talk about how awful the abuse of trans sex workers is in "afab only" support groups. They cry about the plight of homeless "trans people" while sleeping in "afab only" shelters.
They love to talk about all the good Miss Major, and many other trans women, have done while actively contributing to our exclusion and oppression. Its very clear that they do not love women like Miss Major.
We are the Omelas Children of the queer world. Their gains are built on our suffering.
"Since no one was going to do it for us, we had to do it for ourselves."

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Queer unity has been trying as hard as possible to downplay any possible transfem issue. Pay gap adding up to thousands a year? Not a big deal. V coding? Never mention it. Trans women are much more likely to be sent to an early grave than their male counterparts? Stop bringing that up. Trans people collaborating with kiwifarms? Just internet drama.
You know what IS an important issue? Getting called a fucking birthday boy. They get all hands on deck about it. They will write VERY long posts about how important it is you not use it, and that anyone who does must be punished as severely as possible
There's only one explanation. The lives of trans women are so worthless to them, so fucking disposable, that a trans man getting invalidated is actually more important to them. That's how these people, who demand we view them as family and allies, who think we should be ready to die for them, view us.
I know people who treat house flies with more respect than that.
forever reminded of this fucking yt reply i got in a thread abt transmisogyny, this kinda attitude is so common. even when you do bring up shit that disproportionately or exclusively affects transfems the response is "what abt me" or downplaying it
"Damn, v-coding sounds terrible... I hope they don't do that to trans men, too!" Because obviously it's *bad* when it happens to trans women, but oh dear god, THINK OF THE TRANS MEN that this might hypothetically happen to in a different situation!! I'm going to fucking cry. Trans women are so unvalued, these people look at the reality that trans women have to wake up to every single day, and they respond with "yeah, it's terrible when the sex slave gets raped. That must really hurt! But god, imagine if a HUMAN was raped instead? HORROR!"
People don't want to admit this but TME people enforce gender roles all the time. They will keep people in the closet by refusing to tell them about gender dysphoria and the possibility of transition. They will accuse transfems of being dangerous and "male socialized". They will gang up on transfems when they've been assaulted or hurt in a queer space and force them to be silent or be ostracized. They have a very specific idea of how a trans women should act and get very upset when a trans woman deviates from that
Three things have happened in my local trans community in the past month:
A transmasc drag queen made a call-out post about how a newly-out local trans woman is a sexual predator. (The sexual offence was that, 6 years ago, before she came out, she was at a drag show with the drag queen (who was her friend at the time) and joked that the drag queen's makeup looked a bit like semen.) The trans woman spiralled, got drunk, got hit by a car, and is currently in hospital.
A newly-out trans woman and a trans man met at a local trans support group. They decided to meet up again at a local pub. She apparently asked questions about his transition that he considered invasive, and in a voice that was too loud and risked outing him to other people in the venue. She now faces being banned from the support group.
The only trans woman who volunteers to run that support group is being kicked off the team by the trans man who is in charge of it. The reason is that she once told the guy in charge to "stop talking" when he was giving her several instructions at once, and also that a different transmasc volunteer has said they find her "creepy" and don't want to be alone with her.
All three trans women are autistic, isolated, and don't have much practice with irl socialising. Maybe they're a little bit loud, maybe a little bit abrasive, maybe they misjudge the appropriateness of sexual comment to a friend at a drag show, maybe they're too keen to make a new friend that they get excitable and speak too loud and ask too many questions, maybe they get overstimulated by being told too many instructions and need you to stop for a second to give them space.
Maybe their behaviour that you consider weird and unsettling is actually a trauma response to a childhood and adolescence of isolation and bullying.
And you know what the funny thing is? I have been sexually harassed at a drag show by the drag queen in (1), who was performing and making sexual jokes about various people in the audience. I have been in a public place with the trans man in (2) while he asked me loud invasive questions about my HRT regimen and about child abuse I suffered. And I have been misgendered and deadnamed repeatedly by the trans man in (3).
And do you know what I did about any of these things? Nothing, beyond saying "Hey, I'd appreciate if you don't do that next time 👍 No hard feelings 🙂". Because, not only am I aware that people make mistakes, and I consider trans men and transmascs a vulnerable demographic and it would be a totally unjust overreaction from me to attempt to socially isolate them for these offences.
But also, I don't have the social power to do anything about these things anyway, even if I wanted to. My normal response to experiencing even serious abuse at a queer event is to simply stop attending it, isolating myself, and perhaps telling a few close friends about it. Because I already know that my complaints will not be taken seriously.
Trans women are being isolated irl every day for behaviours that other demographics can do with impunity. They are not given any grace, any benefit of the doubt, any second chances, and complaints about even the smallest offence will be taken seriously and escalated. And they will not be able to fight back, because a trans woman who fights back is just confirming all the bigoted assumptions that the wider world already has about her.
You know they view trans women as men because no cis woman would ever be called out for shit like this.
And viewing trans women as men is the only thing here that deserves a callout 😒
More like "subhuman." If they saw trans women as men on the same level they do cismen then those women would be getting more than fair treatment.
But yeah 100% agree, viewing trans women as anything BUT women should have you thrown in a pit of spikes.
I tend to auto-block anyone who posts about some ambiguous "trans unity" shit, or more specifcally if they say something along the lines of "trans men and women should just get along."
Not only is it the most banal bullshit lacking any sense of introspection or understanding about the moment we are in regarding feminism or gender politics, it is also just usually posted by a transandrophobia truther type.
A good illustration for how ridiculous these posts are is to just drop the word "trans" from it. So the post becomes "men and women should just get along," which we obviously understand as a patently absurd and ineffectual sentiment that is asks for no considerations of oppressive systems and is just saying that the oppressor and oppressed should simply make equal concessions to eachother. But somehow the word "trans" equalizes any difference between the given women and men because they are gleefully under this belief that trans women and men truly are "equally oppressed," a la the transmisogynistic adage of "we're all faggots in the eyes of the state" - the most favored and highest simplification of the intricacies of intersectionality.
Transandrodorks truly are the most dull and uninquisitive people on this site who fully and willingly lack any drive to understand systems of oppression, basic functions of the patriarchy, or really any feminist theory.
This is transfeminism!
please make sure your transfem friends don’t get excluded. please listen to their needs.
You should do more than just listen, actually. You need to ask her. You need to go up to her and ask her about things you can do to include her. We are taught to take up as little space as possible, you need to go out of your way to account for that.
You should also do more research and listen to and talk to more trans women, so that trans women no longer have to provide the labour of even having to express what they need to be treated like literal people.

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ummm op its really weird to headcanon kris to have an agab based off of the extremely flimsy information that the area based off of their childhood is called mancountry and the egg stuff is in there and this was clearly a place they once fit in but not anymore . if you dont want to misgender nonbinary people you should never acknowledge the ones that have any sort of relationship with their agab at all or they arent nonbinary . instead you should draw them in a binder and complaining about periods and wearing pigtails as a little kid and getting dysphoric over their feminine body the way all nonbinary people do
"[thing associated to trans women] but for transmascs :3" and other ways of making something immediately worse on multiple levels
asking for the blue version because you cannot possibly just relate to women once in your life
usually transmisogynistic
even when talking about something like art, and even if not done in an explicitly transmisogynistic manner, self-evidently derivative and i've yet to see somewhere where it didn't become instantly less interesting than the original concept
have you ever had a single original thought
"what about men :("
there is absolutely nothing barring you from engaging with transfem culture as a non-transmisogynized person btw. i read countless books and articles from trans women and transfeminized people, follow multiple comedians, go to events where non-transmisogynized ppl are allowed, etc etc etc. they're neat. and turns out when you don't go around whining about the poor forgotten men nobody has a problem with it
#a lot of this impulse is just because of bullying#like the idea that trans womens art/memes/culture are ‘cool’#and trans mens are lame and cringe#well i hate to say trans men do have culture lol you just find it embarassing#maybe look inward.
maybe there's something to it (tags by @bottom-growth) because there is a certain brand of tboy edgelord who's all about Punk But With Frogs or whatever who, anecdotally, i'd say is overrepresented here. thing is, mainstream culture also finds transfem-associated things "cringe" (just look at how people will talk about puppygirls to name one), they just take whatever they feel like from it all the same and get to be "cool" once they are the ones doing them. the girls just seem better at not giving a shit (generally speaking, of course)
ive heard so many arguments about what the "transmasc version of Celeste" is and boys you can just like Celeste. its a good fucking game. liking Madeline doesnt make you less of a man it just makes you a man who likes a transfem character.
i kinda really hate the "straights try to guess gay slang" genre of video. if anything it just shows me how little The Str8s actually know or care about Queer people and Queer culture*.
*also like 75-80% of all "gay slang" (specifically the "slay queen tea hunty" type of talk that white gays LOVE) is just stolen AAV and appropriated Black culture. so like...a lot of y'all Queerfolk don't need to be talking like this anyway lmao.
these videos just reiterate everything i fucking hate about "Queer" pop culture, honestly.

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all accusations are an admission of guilt. hbomberguy is a projecting nonce. his eagerness to pedojacket a trans woman makes me suspicious. you can't trust cismen not to diddle kids.
The toothpaste flag is so fucking ugly. Men can't design flags for shit lmao.