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jin guangyao is blowing up his own life and those of many others in order to become the filialpietymaxxer huaisang is doing exactly the same thing jiang cheng is a mostly less destructive example but it is still the source of his many torments and even wei wuxian feels a bit tortured about his confucian duties but wen ning lowkey does not give a fuck. he doesn't blink at betraying his lord and his sect he's not even conflicted about it. he'll stand by his family/sect members that he thinks are being wronged but if he thinks they're doing the wronging? forget about it. and either way he has no plans for vengeance or cashing in on blood debts. they had to make him addicted to playing second fiddle because he'd be too op otherwise, he understands the narrative intuitively
something really delightful about a character with two salient coexisting traits of "likes being told what to do so he doesn't have to worry about all that" and "will disobey anyone about anything as soon as he doesn't agree with what he's told to do" in a series where most of the other characters are both more outwardly rebellious and less likely to be as morally independent in practice
The thing to me about Wen Ning being so willing to go against his family is that I think it emphasizes how trapped he is in the narrative rather than reduces it. Because one of the major themes of MDZS in my mind is debts and repayments, being bound by what you owe others. For many of the other characters they consider their most important debts to be to their families or the people who raised them, which leads to the above behaviors. And this aligns with the values of the society they live in so when they go above and beyond to repay the perceived obligations they are understood and seen as virtuous by the people around them.
Meanwhile Wen Ning is super willing to betray his family and leader - but notably a large part of his motivations come not only from pure morality but also out of a sense of personal loyalty to Wei Wuxian. He puts himself at great personal risk in part because WWX was passingly kind to him once! That is even more notable than the lengths that JGY goes to for his family!
He's not very filial but to some extent this just means that his choice to honor his perceived debts in this way is a more deliberate action, something that goes against the expectations around him and cannot be as easily understood by the people in universe who might grant sympathy to somebody like NHS. But the fact that he still ends up following WWX through his whole afterlife because that is what he believes he is owed is, to me, an indication that he just as much, if not more, entangled in these webs of obligation that strangle most of the cast.
i have a lot of thoughts on wei wuxian, the wen siblings, and how they are affected by their debts to each other (i, for one, don’t think that debt repayment was a major motivation for wen ning’s intervention at lotus pier or for him following wei wuxian post-timeskip) - but i agree that it’s something that burdens all of them throughout most of the story, despite everyone's best intentions.
but i do want to put my two cents in because wen ning and wei wuxian parting ways in the end is so important:
“I built one for the two of you at the Burial Mounds, but it was burnt down,” Wei Wuxian said. “We’ll make a trip to Qishan too.”
He turned to Lan Wangji, but before he could ask for the latter’s opinion, Wen Ning declined. “No, it’s fine.”
Taken aback, Wei Wuxian asked, “You don’t want us to come with?”
Lan Sizhui quickly chimed in. “Wei-qianbei, just go with Hanguang-jun.”
Wei Wuxian wanted to say more, but Wen Ning said, “Really, it’s fine. Wei-gongzi, you have done enough.”
After a brief pause, Wei Wuxian asked, “What will you do after you’ve finished all that?”
“Send A-Yuan back to the Cloud Recesses,” Wen Ning replied. “Then I can take my time pondering what to do next. As for what follows…let me go my own way.”
Wei Wuxian nodded slowly. “…Just as well.”
wen ning doesn't end up following wei wuxian through his whole afterlife. wen ning leaves.
and the way he leaves - freeing himself from revolving his life around wei wuxian any further, from having to protect him at the expense of his own personhood - but also explicitly freeing wei wuxian from all further obligations, from seeing wen ning as his responsibility, from having to choose between happiness and duty for once in his life - is important as well. "you have done enough".
(even though his rejection made wei wuxian sad! but what can you do? wen ning, a healer, is no stranger to breaking a badly healed bone so it can be set clean, even if it hurts.)
the toxicity of being trapped in a cycle of debt and repayment is indeed a major theme, which is why wei wuxian's relationship with lan wangji ("between us, there is no need to say thank you and sorry") is so heavily contrasted with both of his other relationships, which jiang cheng also eventually understands by keeping the truth of his golden core loss to himself, and that’s why wen ning dropping all of this on wei wuxian’s head and walking off into the sunset was absolute king shit on his part. my man saw the webs of obligation around them and went at them with an angle grinder as soon as he could, and he really deserves more recognition for it.
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I just love the amount of detail MXTX puts into this novel ❤️
A flute in the shade of ink stuck to his waist, hanging down with crimson-colored tassels.
Chapter 49
Immediately after, his gaze landed on the coal-black, red-tasseled flute by Wei WuXian’s waist.
Chapter 71
Chenqing is described as being made of dark wood, so dark it is ink black in colour. Which is not just a fashion statement...
Burial Mound used to be an ancient battleground. In the years afterward, people
had gotten used to tossing inside nameless corpses, causing there to always be dark, resentful energy throughout the year. In the end, it became the nightmare of everyone in the Yiling area.
As though tainted by the energy of resentment, within the woods on the mound, all of the leaves and branches were as black as death.
Chapter 67
WWX obviously crafted this flute during his torturous stay in the Burial Mounds, while developing his cultivation technique. Which is why Chenqing is dark in colour, because it was made from the black wood in the forest that is situated there. MXTX doesn't overlook a thing! It's just incredible!
Thinking more in-depth about Chenqing, I can't help but wonder what (if any) feelings WWX has towards his flute. He carved it during one of the most traumatic times within his life, while trying to survive in a hellish place filled with yin energy and entities full of resentment. He used this flute to cultivate a new path, exact revenge, kill thousands and save innocent people with it. With all that in mind, the instrument could possibly evoke some pretty painful memories for him.
Luckily I think WWX tries not to focus on things like that, choosing not to dwell on the past. He is very adept at focusing on the positive things in life. In fact near the end of the novel, he seems pretty happy to have his original flute back and even reminisces about A-Yuan teething on it as a toddler later still. So perhaps he sees the flute more as a reminder that he is a fighter, that he not only "attempted the impossible", but achieved it.
Or maybe WWX just sees it as a useful, but nice accessory to go with his black robes - a fashion statement after all! 😅
This is what happens when you binge-read novels in a 24-48 hour time frame. You miss beautiful details such as Chenqing's origins. (As always, thank you, Kay, for pointing these details out <3.)
So now I have some random Chenqing feels... Two moments where Chenqing really makes me feel my feelings... WWX sees Chenqing as an extension of himself. He names Chenqing, whereas he never names the bamboo flute he uses during his second life (although maybe this is just because he didn't have as much time to develop a connection with the bamboo flute). Also, when JC returns Chenqing to WWX at the end, there's zero hesitation in WWX's movements - just immediately catches it and raises it to his lips. Chenqing is back where it belongs - with WWX. I wonder how often WWX thought about Chenqing during his second life but simply never mentioned it...
Also, loving LWJ's glow-up with Chenqing. Man goes from being wary of it to attacking it (to searching for it) to seamlessly playing a duet with it.
Lan WangJi spoke, one word at a time, “Wei Ying, put down Chenqing.”
(ch. 72)
Lan WangJi flipped the guqin onto his back. Instead, he pulled out Bichen and attacked straight at Chenqing, as if he wanted to sever the flute playing such wrongful notes.
(ch. 78)
Lan WangJi nodded. No more words had to be exchanged as the notes of the guqin and the flute sounded in unison.
(ch. 108)
Also, side note... I like how Chenqing became such a hot commodity after WWX's death. Xue Yang tried to bully Jin GuangYao into taking the flute from Jiang Cheng. Meanwhile, Drunkji ransacked the Lan treasure trove to look for it.
Yet another side note...
Kay, not sure if you have notes on this or not, but I figure you'd be the person to ask... Do we know whether WWX's black robes and red ribbon came before or after the black flute with a red tassel's appearance? Did the chicken (WWX's outfit) actually come before the egg (Chenqing) this time? Or did WWX decide to get some couple's outfits to match his flute?
The Black Outfit comes after the Burial Mounds it’s the first time he is described as wearing it. Before that he would most likely be wearing Yunmeng Purple but most adaptions don’t show this. I guess they want the main character to stand out more so they give him different colored clothing.
The person slowly walked upstairs. He was covered in black. With a slender physique, he had a flute at his waist, hands behind his back.
It is then mentioned he is dressed in black several other times after this
He saw himself walk with hands behind his back, wearing all black. A flute in the shade of ink stuck to his waist, hanging down with crimson colored tassels.
As for the red ribbon it’s actually not mentioned until the Extras. Personally I think (I don’t have any actual written evidence) this was an Easter Egg to fans since fan art started drawing WWX with a red ribbon and MXTX must have liked it. Some very early fan art I’ve found actually does not have WWX with a red ribbon
Here is the mention of the red ribbon in the incense burner dream. Since LWJ is dreaming of a young WWX it would mean he always had the red ribbon at least during the Cloud Recesses Day
He lay amongst the books scattered on the ground, wrists bound together and weakly fixed above his head. His red ribbon had long since disappeared. Hair disheveled, he was on the verge of crying, tears blurring his squinting eyes.
The red ribbon is also mentioned in the Dreams Come True Extra but that is obviously post canon
Lan WangJi also went back on the boat. He handed him a red ribbon,
But another thing that got missed from ALL adaptions did you know that Wei Wuxian actually wrote white for Jin Ling’s first month celebration
Not far away, a person in white was holding a jade tassel pendant in his hand, examining it carefully. Hearing this, he smiled.
The person in white raised his brows. After he had chosen, he walked out of the Treasure Pavilion.
I was just responding when I saw your addition! Which is what I was saying, but I'd not taken the time to find quotes - so even better!
original reply:
WWX definitely thought of Chenqing as more than just a flute. It sounds like he took a lot of care in crafting it and he bestowed quite a poignant name upon it as well.
It's interesting that you should mention WWX's outfit, because I was actually curious when the red tassel appeared on the flute - so I did a bit of digging. From what I could find with regards to his outfit choices, the first time we see him in black is post Burial Mounds escape. We get a glimpse of him in black when he is standing outside of the supervision office he originally tortures WC and WLJ at. As far as I could tell the red ribbon in his hair only appears in the extras! The only red in his outfit post Burial Mounds escape is the crimson red tassel on Chenqing. I think we've all read and watched so many different adaptations, we all automatically have WWX with a red ribbon in his hair throughout! I certainly headcanon it! 😂🎀
----
I love the fact he's in white for JLs first month celebrations! I have a few notes on that as well because I found it quite interesting ☺️
Another pro-reader tip for mxtx novels: they are all stories with clear-cut good guys and bad guys and a strong moral message, BUT you have to actually read what the story has to say about characters without taking anything at face value, relying on genre tropes, or using identities and statuses as shorthand to your understanding of the moral system and themes of the story. So no, most characters in her stories are not morally gray (though some are, most can be definitively categorized as either morally good or bad, and ALL of her main characters are definitively morally good), and no she does not write morally gray plots where “morality is just subjective!” If anything, the term I think people are looking for is “morally neutral” (meaning that the thing is not assigned a morality in and of itself) in many cases.
An mxtx character is never designated as good or bad based off their backgrounds or class: Wei Wuxian, Jin Guangyao, Shen Jiu, and Mu Qing all grow up outside of the elite class, but Mu Qing (eventually) and Wei Wuxian are unquestionably good guys while Jin Guangyao and Shen Jiu are unquestionable villains. Shen Yuan, Lan Wangji, and Xie Lian all grow up within the gentry class but are all good guys while Jiang Cheng, Jun Wu, and The Old Palace Master are bad. Likewise, life circumstances or tools don’t determine morality. In mdzs, the sword path (which is the orthodox one) is used to commit genocide by the general cultivation world just as easily as Lan Wangji wields it to protect the forsaken commoners. Wei Wuxian’s ghost path was created to protect himself before being used to protect others, but Xue Yang and the Jin Clan pervert it to cause mass destruction for their own wishes. In tgcf, Xie Lian uses his god powers to attempt to help the Yong’an people while the other gods simply collect worshippers to increase their power and oppress lesser gods. Every character I’ve listed minus the Old Palace Master has experienced intense trauma that has informed their lives and colors their morality, but it does not define why they have chosen to take on certain moral stances.
(This is not to say that mxtx doesn’t have certain tropes she dislikes, as she clearly hates the “dedicate their whole existence completely to another person” trope. Su She, a villain dedicated to Jin Guangyao, dies. Zhuzhi-lang, a sympathetic antagonist dedicated to Tianlang-jun, dies. Hua Cheng, A WHOLE LOVE INTEREST dedicated to the literal main character, dies a whopping three (3) times before he learns his lesson.)
Mxtx does not condemn those who stray from orthodoxy. In fact, every story she’s (currently) written is about the dangers of entrenched and unquestioned hierarchy and status quo giving way to corruption every time. She wants you to question the dominant narrative of the benevolent group who descend from on high to “save the ignorant masses.” She wants you to question the idea that the only people with the right of choice are those at the top of the hierarchy. She wants you to question the idea that even the smallest decision of “powerless” people does not matter in “the grand scheme of things.” She wants you to actually think about the story conventions that you accept as infallible and question whether or not it would make for good shorthand by which to understand well-written characters and story arcs (and also, hopefully, how society is structured at large). So if you find yourself reading an mxtx novel and siding with the mob characters or lamenting how x character was locked into making certain choices “against their will” or being unable to reconcile how a recognized trope led to an unexpected conclusion because “that’s not how it’s supposed to go,” then it may do you some good to stop and ask yourself “was this idea supported by the narrative that I read in the book, or is this an idea I’ve come to entirely from my own preconceived notions of how I wanted the story to turn out based on how other, similar stories have panned out?”
@silver-cyn There was no way I could expand in a note, so here we are lol. I made this a year ago and told @chai-chahiye-yr that I would return to their note after finishing my reread (and then promptly never did on tumblr lmao), so some of my thoughts on that section have since changed. For instance, idk if mxtx actually hates the “loyal for life” trope, just that she often portrays it as ending in death, whether the death be for a good cause (Zhuzhi-lang and Hua Cheng) or not (Su She). I had also framed the deaths in these occasions as “narrative punishments” towards the loyal character, but I think I would actually change this to the deaths being the narrative punishment/wake-up-call for the one who inspires that loyalty.
In svsss, Zhuzhi-lang sacrifices himself to protect Tianlang-jun, Su Shi does so for Jin Guangyao in mdzs, and Hua Cheng does many deaths in tgcf for Xie Lian. All of these deaths are meant to provide a second chance for the characters the sacrifice was made for, but the reason I say, now, that it is also a narrative punishment is because—with the exception of two of Hua Cheng’s “deaths”—the death of the loyal follower is caused directly by the object of their loyalty betraying themselves/morality. Think Zhuzhi-lang dying because of Tianlang-jun’s machinations that went against his own love for humans, or Wuming “dying” because Xie Lian briefly allowed his resentment towards Yong’an to consume him. Su She is the only character who died for the sake of an at-his-core villain, and his death is easily brushed aside by the beneficiary of it because Jin Guangyao has always been incapable of and unwilling to reciprocate the care that others show for him in ways that don’t directly benefit him.
With that said, mxtx does say in the tgcf postscript that as a teen (in middle and high school), she didn’t like the idea of people seeing love as their life, but as she grew older, her opinions on that changed to her actually liking and appreciating characters who give themselves wholly to love, particularly in the context of her creation of Hualian. In fact, she calls Hua Cheng’s singleminded dedication to Xie Lian a “one in a million” trait that matches Xie Lian’s own “one in a million” dogged determination to work hard and keep moving forward even if/as he is brutalized for this. Hua Cheng’s unconditional and unwavering love even to the point of death, therefore, supports Xie Lian’s determination and gives him the strength to resist wavering even in the face of death, so that even the deaths are not “punishments” but acts of support that keep each honest and true to themselves. So, while I don’t think that dedicating oneself to love is equivalent to dedicating your life to another, loyalty-wise (the former will always involve the latter, the latter does not always include the former), I no longer agree that my above statement is in-line with mxtx’s intentions as stated in the postscript or even what I currently think of how the text represents it.
This is gonna be broken up because some of the changes are embedded in unchanged text, so I will be using the exr translation as the "original" for what is unchanged. This may get a little choppy, but I am waaaaay too lazy to translate everything from scratch lol. Changes start after this sentence: Wei WuXian, “ZeWu-Jun, why would you think that I’d know?”
Edits
蓝曦臣看他一眼，道：“这是当年我与忘机的母亲在云深不知处的居所。”
Lan Xichen glanced at him and said, “This is the residence where my and Wangji's mother used to live back then.”
魏无羡颇觉奇怪。姑苏蓝氏历代家主的居所为 “寒室”，肯定不是这间云深不知处角落里的小屋子。莫非蓝忘机的父母也和江枫眠、虞夫人一般性情不投，因此分地而居？
Wei Wuxian felt rather baffled. The residence of the successive heads of the Gusu Lan Clan were the “Hanshi,” certainly not this little house in the corner of the Cloud Recesses. Could it be that Lan Wangji’s parents were of incompatible temperaments like Jiang Fengmian and Yu-furen and thus split their residence?
而且，姑苏蓝氏上一任家主青蘅君的夫人据说体弱气虚，常年养病，不宜见人，旁人原本就知之甚少，众家私底下都猜测这 “病” 是不是难以见光的“病”，譬如毁容，残疾之类。因此魏无羡不便多问，保持沉默。
Moreover, the furen of the previous head of the Gusu Lan Clan, Qingheng-jun, was reportedly feeble and qi-deficient, recuperating all year round and unsuited for meeting anyone. Outsiders originally knew little about her, and numerous families privately speculated whether this “illness” was the type of “illness” that was difficult to appear in the light, such as a disfigurement, a disability, or the like. As a result, Wei Wuxian didn’t ask more and remained silent.
EXR (no changes)
Lan XiChen, “Young Master Wei, you should know that my father usually meditated in seclusion and never interacted with the rest of the world too often. Throughout all these years, the GusuLan Sect has been taken care of by Uncle almost single-handedly.”
Wei WuXian, “That I do know.”
Lan XiChen dropped his hand. The hand that he held Liebing with was hidden within his sleeve. He spoke slowly, “The reason that my father often practiced secluded meditation was my mother. This place, compared to a place of living... was more like a place of detention.”
Wei WuXian was surprised.
The father of ZeWu-Jun and HanGuang-Jun, QingHeng-Jun, used to be a famous cultivator. He made his name at a young age and had many things waiting for him in the future. However, at the age of twenty, he suddenly backed away and announced his marriage. He had also ceased to care for much of the world. Although it was called secluded meditation, it was much more like retirement. People had come up with many possible reasons, but none of them had been verified.
Lan XiChen bent down amid the clusters of gentians. He gently stroked those thin, tender petals, “When my father was young, when he returned from a night-hunt once, he saw my mother outside of Gusu city.” He smiled, “I heard that it was love at first sight.”
Wei WuXian grinned as well, “The young are often sentimental.”
Lan XiChen continued, “However, the woman did not care for him as much. In addition, she killed one of my father’s teachers.”
This was beyond imagination. Although Wei WuXian knew that asking too many questions would be very rude, whenever he remembered that those were Lan WangJi’s parents, he felt that he just had to ask. “Why?!”
Lan XiChen, “I do not know. But, I assume that it was something along the lines of ‘grievances’.”
Wei WuXian didn’t ask anymore into this and forced down his curiosity, “And... what happened later?”
“And then,” Lan XiChen explained, “When my father heard of this, of course he was in much pain. But, no matter how he struggled, he still took the woman to his sect in secrecy. Ignoring the objections from his clan, he knelt with her for the Heavens and the Earth without making a sound and told everyone in the clan that she would be his wife for the rest of his life, that whoever wanted to harm her would have to pass through him first.”
Wei WuXian widened his eyes.
Edits
蓝曦臣继续道：“礼成之后，为了防止族人再令那女子以命相抵，我父亲便找了一座屋子，把她关起来，又找了一座屋子，把自己也关起。名为闭关，实为思过。”
Lan Xichen continued, “After the ceremony concluded, in order to prevent his clansmen from forcing that woman to pay with her life, my father sought a house, confined her, then sought another house and confined himself, too. It was called seclusion, but it was really reflecting on one’s mistakes.”
EXR (no changes)
He paused before speaking again, “Young Master Wei, can you understand why he did such a thing?”
Wei WuXian answered after a moment of silence, “He could neither forgive the one who killed his teacher nor watch the death of the woman who he loved. He could only marry her to protect her life and force himself not to see her.”
Lan XiChen, “Do you think that this was right?”
Wei WuXian, “I don’t know.”
Lan XiChen looked somewhat lost, “Then, what do you think would be right?”
Wei WuXian, “I don’t know.”
Edits
半晌，蓝曦臣低声道：“我父亲这么做，可以说是不顾一切了。族中长辈都十分愤怒，但都是看着他长大的，又无可奈何，只得严守秘密，对外暗示姑苏蓝氏的家主夫人有隐疾，不宜见人。
After what felt like half a day, Lan Xichen spoke in a low voice, “My father did so, and it could be said that it was disregarding all concerns. The seniors within the clan were ten parts furious, but they’d all watched him grow up. Having no alternative, they could only strictly guard the secret, hinting to outsiders that the head furen of the Gusu Lan Clan had an unmentionable illness and was unsuited for meeting people.
“他们不敢再向这女子追责，反倒有求于她。因为父亲把自己关起来后，就再不肯见任何人。长辈们没有办法，病急乱投医，只好请那女子去劝他。
“They didn’t dare hold this woman accountable again, but on the contrary, sought her out because after father confined himself, he was unwilling to meet with anyone anymore. The seniors, with no solution and turning to anyone in their time of crisis, were forced to ask that woman to go and persuade him.
“她什么都没做，只是在我父亲院子前的台阶上放了一朵龙胆。
“She did nothing, only placed a single gentian on the front steps of my father’s courtyard.
“后来，就只有母亲能去看望他。她永远有办法让我父亲把门打开。她甚至不需要说一句话。
“Later, only mother could visit him. She always found a way to make my father open the door. She didn’t even need to speak a word.
“待到我和忘机出生，族人立刻把我们抱出来给旁人照料，稍大一点，便交给叔父教导。
“When Wangji and I were born, the clansmen carried us out at once to be cared for by others, and when we were a bit bigger, we were given to Shufu to be taught.
EXR (mostly no changes)
“My uncle... has always had a frank personality to begin with. Because of how my mother caused my father to destroy his own life, he began to hate those who behaved improperly even more. Thus, he poured his heart into teaching WangJi and me. He was especially harsh as well. Every month, we could only see Mother once, inside of this cottage.”
They were two young children, who faced everyday only their harsh uncle, strict teachings, and mountains of books. No matter how tired, they had to straighten their soft backs to be the most outstanding disciples of the clan, the model students in others’ eyes. They could rarely see their closest relatives. They couldn’t fool around in their father’s arms, they couldn’t act spoiled in front of their mother.
But they had clearly done nothing wrong. (sentence deleted)
End of changes, everything else reads the same (as far as my glazed-over eyes could see).
Next time you’re watching any news show or political coverage see how many of these you can spot:
Quick rundown of each propaganda technique:
• Glittering Generalities: Using vague, emotionally appealing words (like “freedom” or “justice”) that sound good but lack specific meaning.
• Transfer: Associating a person, idea, or product with something already respected or disliked (like using a flag, religion, or celebrity image) to carry over those feelings.
• Name-Calling: Attaching negative labels to an opponent or idea to create fear or distrust without real evidence.
• Card-Stacking: Presenting only positive information for one side and leaving out or distorting the negatives.
• Testimonial: Having a famous or respected person endorse an idea, product, or cause.
• Plain Folks: Presenting the speaker as an “ordinary” person to seem relatable and trustworthy.
• Band Wagon: Urging people to follow the crowd with the idea that “everyone else is doing it.”
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what's your favorite of these sword-related actions/plot devices... 🎤
gifting someone a sword (especially as significant gesture e.g. betrothal gift)
drawing someone else's sword from the scabbard suddenly and without permission
using someone else's sword as a way to remember them after they've passed
you're not worthy of me drawing my sword/it's almost always left in the scabbard
sword with some measure of sentience e.g. ability to jostle/laugh/purr
emotionally significant "may I please borrow your sword" moment
plot-significant sword name change
Voting ended onJun 8
there are of course one william possibilities and im sure ive left some good ones off... feel free to tell me abt some other good ones and their associated stories 👀
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sorry, i just couldn't help but notice that you're calm and logical and reserved and associated with the color blue? well i'm hotheaded and impulsive and passionate and associated with the color red if you want to beat the shit out of each other or make out or something
[ID: A The Untamed text post meme of Jiang Cheng looking horrified and distraught as Wen Ning presents him with Wei Wuxian's sword overlaid with a post by @/shadowseductress that says, "adding geologist to my resume after hitting rock bottom". End ID]
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