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not that this is a particularly profound take but imo i think the dadbastian trope IS pretty applicable in canon if you just like. Look at it from a slightly skewed angle.
it's not that i'm coming at this in a "sebastian is gradually changing for the better and learning to empathize with and/or regard o!ciel as someone he genuinely cares for" way because, as much as that narrative is fun and angsty and Just So Happens to make sebastian a little easier to relate to, it clashes with how calculated he canonically is.
that being said! he absolutely is changing. his character arc revolves around a realization that the tactics he's comfortable using aren't good enough, and this goes wayyy beyond undertaker being two steps ahead of his "punch first, ask questions later" instinct. everything sebastian does is catalyzed by a belief that, no matter how treacherous the situation becomes, he'll be able to figure it out with little to no effort given his superiority as a supernatural entity.
ciel and sebastian's dynamic prior to emerald witch relies on this ethos. ciel has a goal and views sebastian as the sole avenue through which he can accomplish it because he's a demon. ciel feels unsafe and views sebastian as his only source of protection because he's a demon. all sebastian has to do to maintain this dynamic is be scary and generally infallible which, surprise! are natural dispositions for him.
enter BOC, in which this dynamic is challenged during ciel's initial asthma attack. this is the first time sebastian is relatively helpless to keep ciel alive - he has to defer to a human doctor because there's literally. Nothing he can do. which is then paralleled by ciel's second flair up.
there's a reason ciel's asthma is referenced again in this scene. there's a reason sebastian looks so skip-happy while carrying out ciel's order of burning that bitch to the ground. he doesn't have to question his abilities! he doesn't have to alter the dynamic! he can keep flexing his demon powers anytime shit hits the fan and ciel will always come crawling back to him.
sebastian's fatal flaw isn't just that he's muscle-brained - he's also stubbornly, willfully ignorant of his own weaknesses. sure, he was completely useless in preventing ciel's asthma back at the circus, but that's fine, who cares! he gets to fall back on his strengths and ignore how powerless he actually was.
welcome to BOA! for context, prior to this arc, sebastian rarely, if ever let ciel see him expending any kind of effort, i.e. he's in a constant battle with the servants to keep the manor from descending into chaos and purposefully tries to hide it. this isn't just a butler aesthetics thing, it's also an "I'm a demon and everything is easy for me" thing, to the extent that sebastian continues attempting to uphold his unflappable demeanor when he's quite literally on the verge of collapsing.
sebastian's tactics aren't all that's challenged in BOA - his entire persona gets irreparably damaged. ciel sees him be outsmarted. ciel sees him injured and genuinely struggling to keep the former safe. this should be very bad news for their dynamic;
except, it isn't.
ciel responds so positively that it makes sebastian Yapper Of The Century michaelis momentarily speechless! he then immediately tells ciel to cut that shit out, thus deferring once again to a dynamic that's rapidly crumbling before his eyes and ignoring how effective his accidental appeal to pathos was in retaining and even strengthening ciel's attachment to him.
which leads me to emerald witch, aka the cataclysm for sebastian's change. on top of undertaker being a constant, underlying threat to his food, sebastian ONCE AGAIN has to deal with said food's delicate mortality.
obviously, sebastian is all out of sorts, but his expressions / the way he's framed when he's alone (or not being perceived) absolutely floor me. he looks genuinely distressed after speaking to the other servants. he's drawn in these bird's-eye and wide-shot views while in the forest, creating an isolated, pensive atmosphere and illustrating him (a big, bad demon) as nothing short of small.
he's conflicted. which is weird, right? this isn't the first time his food has gotten sick. moreover, ciel isn't in any active danger - he's having a PTSD response. sebastian is not stupid, he knows this, and should be either confidently reminding ciel of the power he wields or threatening to eat him right then and there; and yet! he waits multiple days before reverting to these (historically effective!!) responses.
it's not just that he's a picky eater - this is sebastian, for the first time in the series, recognizing how fragile ciel's attachment to him is. he's doubting himself. his food no longer views him as its only source of safety, has rejected him, and it's entirely due to sebastian's own negligence.
he's been ignoring his weaknesses. he's been reliant on ciel looking past multiple instances of helplessness in light of how terrified the kid is and how powerful sebastian makes him feel. it's not a coincidence that ciel's near-death experience was exacerbated by sebastian disregarding the former's symptoms to go beat up a werewolf (leaving him ALONE in a foreign, SUPPOSEDLY CURSED castle) until those symptoms, literally, hit him in the face.
it doesn't matter how incapacitated ciel is - sebastian's presence should be enough to calm him, and it isn't, and it's his fault.
this is where sebastian really starts to change. (mind you, the chapter following ciel's initial rejection is titled "That Butler, Change", so do with that what you will.) though we aren't told this explicitly, i think he looks to instances wherein something other than fear drove ciel's attachment (BOA), as well as to the only person ciel would let near him while panicked (finnian, who ciel appears to be closest with amongst the servants and was projecting onto out of grief for his twin). he dials back on the demon vibes. he slowly begins altering his rhetoric.
enter blue cult!
remember what i said about sebastian not wanting ciel to see him struggle? to be cognizant of his weaknesses? as much as the situation was largely out of his control, it's interesting that sebastian allowed his expression to convey upset given that he views emotion of any kind as a weakness.
this isn't to say his sulking isn't genuine - i like to think his clinical narcissist brain was about to pop at the mere thought of not being praised; but! when put in context with his nature, his façade, how every single thing he does is calculated, especially around ciel, this Wildly out-of-character expression gains a new meaning.
another example after ciel returns from getting his blood thieved:
two things: one, sebastian is learning! he almost verbatim references his mistake in emerald witch, meaning he had to have acknowledged it between then and now. two, he does this verbally, explicitly, thereby allowing ciel to witness his panic AND be made aware that sebastian is capable of failure. he could have marched back into the music hall and wrangled the s4. he could have said "ah shit, that's not good, let's go find a doctor". instead, he rambles on about how this is all his fault to a degree that's so excessive it's kind of comical.
and you know what! i don't believe a goddamn word of it. it is so significant that he immediately switches gears after his instinctual big-scary-demon reaction. the sebastian we knew at the beginning of the manga would NEVER let ciel think he was genuinely upset or flawed to the extent of endangering his charge, as that would directly contradict ciel's perception of him as perfect, strong, and safe.
sebastian is thus playing on the dynamic shift that occurred in BOA: he is encouraging ciel to view him as a (rarely!) imperfect being who is struggling to maintain a façade. as someone willing to go to the ends of the earth for him, to care for him, to defy his nature for him, because there are now far too many factors beyond his control to rely on fear alone.
honestly? it's a masterful execution. sebastian's tweaks to his persona are subtle: he gets a little sillier, he offers more praise (under the guise of banter), he tries to make ciel feel bad for "leashing" him.
(i wasn't going to include these panels but. dude. the way he backtracks after the initial comparison between himself and elizabeth only to start pontificating about what the "heart" wants. that is such a purposefully dual-ended rhetoric and insane to hear from mr. evil personified.)
he even displays an artfully-skewed version of grief upon finding angi's body (again, that emotion might have been somewhat genuine, but it feels intentional that he chose to express it with ciel in the room) to foster belief that he is capable of like. Caring for people?
circling back to forces beyond sebastian's control, here are two examples of sebastian's reaction to r!ciel's return:
oh BABY. "neither you nor my love are real"?
on-the-nose dialogue aside, sebastian's expression between these panels had me stumped for years. it would make sense for him to convey sympathy to convince ciel of said "love", HOWEVER it's odd that he would continue to do this despite not actively being perceived while in the carriage. something about this feels a little too genuine - especially considering how he's visibly tweaking throughout all of r!ciel's reveal chapters. as much as looking distressed/concerned is likely a conscious decision, i don't think he's fabricating the emotion entirely.
which leads me to: why does sebastian feel the need to alter the dynamic? sure, it was precarious at best and ran the risk of ciel not liking his pet demon all that much, but there's no imminent danger in that. ciel needs sebastian to achieve his revenge and sebastian has made himself out to be the only dependable, constant person amidst ciel's friends/family inevitably leaving him, AND has a trump card of total autonomy over ciel's soul.
... unless, of course, one of the family members he'd lost miraculously came back from the dead, the exact family member sebastian had eaten right in front of him, and was attached at the hip to a creature familiar with sebastian's flaws far before the demon was ever aware of them, that has proved itself more than capable of killing him.
oh he's concerned alright; there is a very real chance that ciel might back out of the contract. he's forgone his revenge before while in a similar trauma-induced headspace; only, this time, sebastian would be powerless to stop him. in truth, at any point since BOA, his meal could have run off to undertaker and there would have been shit all he could do about it. sebastian was slow to acknowledge this, granted, but up until EW there had been virtually no reason for ciel to do something like that.
now there are reasons. and girl, not only is sebastian concerned, i think he's a little scared.
he's functionally lost all ground in keeping ciel dependent on him. it's no longer enough for ciel to regard sebastian as a maliciously convenient product of circumstance - he has to form some other connection.
so, sebastian blurs the line between servant and guardian. he plays on associations he'd established in the past: nagging over ciel's health, taking over his studies, complimenting him, disciplining him, crafting his own form to look remarkably similar to vincent (and no, i don't consider this an instance of same-face-syndrome, look at their bangs. tell me that's not intentional). choices once made out of cruelty, out of a desire to worsen ciel's emotional turmoil, now repurposed to convince him of a devoted, endearingly-demonic parental figure and hoping this will be enough should there come a time wherein ciel is given a choice between two blasphemous falsifications of his family.
sebastian pivots hard. he avoids relying on his supernatural abilities unless absolutely necessary, despite countless opportunities to do so, to the extent where you almost forget he's not human. he does not leave ciel's side. he lets himself appear dirty and exhausted. he allows ciel to see how uncertain he feels, how helpless he is, knowing the true reason will be lost in translation because ciel is a child, and no matter how conscious that child is of sebastian's nature, he will instinctively revert to seeking out a parent.
the whole "butler aesthetics" shtick flies right out the window at the end of 147. i cannot physically articulate how improper it would be for a servant to grab his master's face and scold him. in front of company. you know who does that? a parent. this is straight up panic on sebastian's part. he is willing to run the risk of acting uncouth in order to brand those fatherly associations right onto ciel's underdeveloped frontal lobe.
and. and this might just be speculation. but.
it's working.
i cannot think of a single goddamn reason for ciel to do this. you wanna know something? his excuse is complete horseshit. sebastian is dressed as a butler, something passengers in a first class train compartment would recognize instantly. even his undercover persona of a valet wouldn't warrant tea with an aristocrat. as much as i'd like to believe ciel is in on the charade, i can't find any evidence nor does it seem realistic that he, a child, would fully grasp that level of manipulation, regardless of how mature he acts.
oh, hey, sebastian's being a little cryptic with that snowfall line. i bet it's completely random and he's never made weather-themed references in any of the prior arcs!
this is. One page. after ciel tells him to take a day off in BOA. he is directly referencing the first time he was made aware of how effective a disingenuous father-son relationship could be.
in BOA, he appears slightly ruffled by the dynamic shift, as this endangered the status quo. in the train car, he's absolutely ecstatic. look at him! that's his "I Just Manipulated This Preteen Sooo Good" face. he looks like an animal. he looks like he's about to turn into a werewolf and jump for joy.
tl;dr: dadbastian is actually so insanely viable, but not in the way you'd think. sebastian in undoubtedly changing, but this isn't an accident or a product of him learning to love or care in any capacity. he is perpetrating the illusion of change, of personal growth in a creature that cannot posses a real identity, thereby humanizing himself in ciel's eyes to keep his food from slipping out of his grasp and it's working so unbelievably well that he's managed to fool a good number of kuro's readers too.
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I love shipping so much, like wow YALL dont fw *lists 25 different ships* wow⌠LOL But on a less comedic note I genuinely adore ToriSai and I am mid way from yapping about how much I adore this ship.
Wow, itâs been weeks since I last came onto Tumblr to really share an analysis/theory or sometimes the occasional Bound Prince rant. But I am back, and I am back with my thoughts about how Wammys house operates, the environment, and how the building worked.
Iâll be using canonical material such as the manga/anime, while also supporting it using the semi-cannon of the LABB novel and the L change the worLd novel. Note that I will be using LABB more than L change the worLd as LABB has been recognised by the creator of Death Note (Ohba) as some sort of cannon. Iâll also use sources away from the Death Note manga/novels/anime like interviews and articles about Orphanages in the UK.
Do I think that Ohba thought much about the orphanage? No, this is all headcanon based on canonical information from the Death Note series.
///////////////////////////////////////////////
When discussing Wammys house we first need to know the system for the children and how many children it can hold. We can use Mellos words from the LABB novel, and some outside sources to figure out how many children an orphanage the size of Wammys can hold.
Wammys house is a larger orphanage, with extremely good funding, and a credibility behind it all. Most likely recognised by the government. Due to its size and funding we can figure out the maximum number of children the main orphanage that produced the successors for L can hold. We also need to remember legally there has to be children going in and out of Wammys. (Also for money reasons and capacity reasons.)
From the size of the building that we know has multiple floors and a large area we can determine from first glance that it can hold more than 25 children. From my research that due to the size of the orphanage in question it would probably hold around 150 children in it.
By how the anime shows the amount of children plus the snippets of the manga that shows Wammys plenty of children live there, and have some contact with L in a sense. Like in the short stories we see L talking with the children through a computer screen.
Like any typical orphanage I can see children coming in and out of the orphanages. That holds the question why the children in the successor program donât get adopted, quick answer; Wammys probably didnât list them as adoptable. Or Near, and Mello were refusing any adoption. It wouldnât benefit Wammys at all to not re-house orphans, Wateri likes to make detectives so keeping children around when they could go to actual houses wouldnât be logical. It would just fill up the orphanage, and cost them money.
Now for the successor program I think it pretty much is âhm this oneâ. Near and Mello got picked due to a look in their eyes and them analysing L. So I doubt that L really hyperfixates on them. He most likely picks them like he did with Near or Mello or sees the files of children that he is told to look at that could be âsuccessorsâ.
By Mellos description Near and him have the âL codeâ while the others in the past generations didnât. (1 - 3) We had zero knowledge of the second and third generation but we do know barely anything of the first generation.
Beyond Birthday and A are the only confirmed successors from that generation. Beyond Birthday after lighting himself on fire landed himself in prison and most likely had a naturally occurring heart attack, A committed suicide. There is no cannon name for A and Beyond Birthday and there will never be.
The first generation was most likely stressful, they were meant to fail and most likely be a test for the actual potential successors in the future. Second and Third generation would most likely be less stressful for the successors. The fourth generation would most likely be the least stressful on the successors
Thatâs my deductions. They most likely had shared rooms and multiple floors of bedrooms. They also probably had open rooms for activities, a cafeteria, nurses office, and of course Rodgerâs office. Multiple bathrooms around the area obviously. They probably also had a large outside area with multiple play areas.
Great thorough post! Canon, implied canon or just a logical conclusion to draw from what little we do see in canon (i.e. that the children who are identified as potential L candidates aren't considered for adoption, I think that just makes sense).
Having re-read LABB a few days ago I also noticed Mello mentioned that kids from all over the world are brought to Wammy's. Even though Watari has orphanages scattered throughout the world, it seems a number of them are specifically brought to Winchester, England and not all of the orphans there are necessarily English.
The physical layout of the place... it's something everyone who's written for this setting has had to think about. We never see anything about their sleeping arrangements. They probably have single-sex dormitory areas, but this is kind of annoying to write around for fanfic/doujin so I see most people interpret Wammy's as having shared or individual rooms... though I think that is the less likely option.
Also if you haven't read it already have a look at the translations for L File: 15 "Watari's Diary". Summary of interesting points from it:
Was formally established in 1973.
Focuses on children aged 9 - 13 (no lower or upper limits mentioned though), children are monitored for signs of particular areas of interest/aptitude and then nurtured accordingly. Reiterates what Mello said in LABB that they're brought in from around the world.
There's been at least one person other than Mello (K) who left Wammy's.
And of course this big meta by tumblr user mikami, one of the foremost Death Note scholars lol.
Wow, itâs been weeks since I last came onto Tumblr to really share an analysis/theory or sometimes the occasional Bound Prince rant. But I am back, and I am back with my thoughts about how Wammys house operates, the environment, and how the building worked.
Iâll be using canonical material such as the manga/anime, while also supporting it using the semi-cannon of the LABB novel and the L change the worLd novel. Note that I will be using LABB more than L change the worLd as LABB has been recognised by the creator of Death Note (Ohba) as some sort of cannon. Iâll also use sources away from the Death Note manga/novels/anime like interviews and articles about Orphanages in the UK.
Do I think that Ohba thought much about the orphanage? No, this is all headcanon based on canonical information from the Death Note series.
///////////////////////////////////////////////
When discussing Wammys house we first need to know the system for the children and how many children it can hold. We can use Mellos words from the LABB novel, and some outside sources to figure out how many children an orphanage the size of Wammys can hold.
Wammys house is a larger orphanage, with extremely good funding, and a credibility behind it all. Most likely recognised by the government. Due to its size and funding we can figure out the maximum number of children the main orphanage that produced the successors for L can hold. We also need to remember legally there has to be children going in and out of Wammys. (Also for money reasons and capacity reasons.)
From the size of the building that we know has multiple floors and a large area we can determine from first glance that it can hold more than 25 children. From my research that due to the size of the orphanage in question it would probably hold around 150 children in it.
By how the anime shows the amount of children plus the snippets of the manga that shows Wammys plenty of children live there, and have some contact with L in a sense. Like in the short stories we see L talking with the children through a computer screen.
Like any typical orphanage I can see children coming in and out of the orphanages. That holds the question why the children in the successor program donât get adopted, quick answer; Wammys probably didnât list them as adoptable. Or Near, and Mello were refusing any adoption. It wouldnât benefit Wammys at all to not re-house orphans, Wateri likes to make detectives so keeping children around when they could go to actual houses wouldnât be logical. It would just fill up the orphanage, and cost them money.
Now for the successor program I think it pretty much is âhm this oneâ. Near and Mello got picked due to a look in their eyes and them analysing L. So I doubt that L really hyperfixates on them. He most likely picks them like he did with Near or Mello or sees the files of children that he is told to look at that could be âsuccessorsâ.
By Mellos description Near and him have the âL codeâ while the others in the past generations didnât. (1 - 3) We had zero knowledge of the second and third generation but we do know barely anything of the first generation.
Beyond Birthday and A are the only confirmed successors from that generation. Beyond Birthday after lighting himself on fire landed himself in prison and most likely had a naturally occurring heart attack, A committed suicide. There is no cannon name for A and Beyond Birthday and there will never be.
The first generation was most likely stressful, they were meant to fail and most likely be a test for the actual potential successors in the future. Second and Third generation would most likely be less stressful for the successors. The fourth generation would most likely be the least stressful on the successors
Thatâs my deductions. They most likely had shared rooms and multiple floors of bedrooms. They also probably had open rooms for activities, a cafeteria, nurses office, and of course Rodgerâs office. Multiple bathrooms around the area obviously. They probably also had a large outside area with multiple play areas.
Anya is live and ready to show you everything. Watch her strip, dance, and perform exclusive shows just for you. Interact in real-time and make your fantasies come true.
â Live Streamingâ Interactive Chatâ Private Showsâ HD Qualityâ Free Actions
Free to watch ⢠No registration required ⢠HD streaming
GET. AI. OUT. OF. FANDOM. Stop making headcanons with it, stop making fanfic with it, stop making fanart with it. If I see one more "asking chatgpt *blank* about *character/characters in a fandom* I'm going to lose my goddamn mind. Use your own fucking brain, stop asking AI to do everything. You could even ask other real people what they think. Just. Stop. Using. AI. In. Creative. Spaces.
Anya is live and ready to show you everything. Watch her strip, dance, and perform exclusive shows just for you. Interact in real-time and make your fantasies come true.
â Live Streamingâ Interactive Chatâ Private Showsâ HD Qualityâ Free Actions
Free to watch ⢠No registration required ⢠HD streaming
it is absolutely true that every character in death note is in a completely different piece of media from every other character. light thinks he's in law and order. L is in columbo, as columbo. misa is in a sabrina carpenter song and rem is in a chappell roan song. to ryuk this is all the three stooges. soichiro is in taken and matsuda is in brooklyn 99 and aizawa is in disco elysium. this is mikami's silence of the lambs and you're living in it. mello will either make this whole situation into twilight or die trying, and near? well. near is in death note.
snowghoul
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