kuro analysis & cielseba-focused blog, 18+, any prns, i often avoid interaction unless i'm 100% sure you're not gonna harass/insult me over drawings (timezone: gmt/bst)
Hello, I'm SayĂŠ (pronounced SAA-YEAH) or just Sy (pronounced SIGH), I am an adult & this blog appeals to those who are 18+ but since I canât control everyone, I would prefer minors stay away from my explicit posts. No real DNI, just treat me how you'd like to be treated. I am anticensorship, this blog is primarily focused on Kuroshitsuji and I do a lot of analysis (the ship Sebaciel/Cielseba & I prefer the latter).
IMPORTANT: If I do not interact with some of your posts, it is because I'm personally uncomfortable with explicit shota/underage & that is why I do not write it or mention anything of that sort despite my ship being what it is. If you want to talk to me about explicit things regarding these two, I'm just going to age Ciel up in my head & would prefer you do not make any references to him being a child. Sorry if this makes me sound like a poser, it's really just a preference and I DO NOT think I am better than anyone just because I age Ciel up, I am still a freak.
SFT sideblog @wrydemonandslychild
NSFT sideblog @contractuallybound
This year's analysis / writing schedule can be found here. Below are some helpful links to help you find whatever you're looking for.
RESOURCES FOR FIC WRITERS: ⢠what fics sebaciel nation like to see | how to avoid writing sebaciel too ooc | more coming soon
MY FICS*: The Devil's Favourite Flame series: Stained Wedding Sheets | Saccharin To Dulcin | Sweet Wicked Thoughts | Sinfully Salacious Dreams | more coming soon
*i only write adult!ciel, again i respect everyone's tastes but i just can't write underage sex fics w/o having a mental crisis (unless it's like 16+ which is the uk age of consent)
Long Analysis Posts: CIEL DOING THE MOST, SEBASTIAN & ELIZABETH MATRONAL SACRIFICE (IMAGES), DYSTHEISM IN KURO, CH216'S PROSPERO & ARIEL vs CIEL & SEBASTIAN PT 1, PT 2 & PT 3 | SEBASTIAN = POLARIS BODY DOUBLE THEORY | SEBASTIAN MEMORY/FORM THEORY (RELATED TO MODRI VLADIS) | MODRI VLADIS' BLOOD & WHY IT'S IMPORTANT | KINDNESS IN KURO PT 1 & PT 2 (#KIK) | BOOK OF MURDER ARC ANALYSIS | GENDER FLUIDITY OF SEBACIEL IN KURO (my reblog) | SEBACIEL: HOW THE LIE BECAME TRUTH (CARE&CHOICE) (honorary kindness in kuro pt3) | CIEL SEEING ELIZABETH & SEBASTIAN IN SIEGLINDE | MORE COMING SOON LATER THIS YEAR ON @sebsnciel
Tags listed below:
As promised, tags to navigate through the swamp this blog will become:
#symuses - for all my random little thoughts, fic/au ideas, hcs etc
#syanalyses - for when i read the manga for the trillionth time
#sywrites - for when/if i post fanfics
#sybitches - for when i complain
#syshitposts - for shitposts (obviously)
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as funny as it would be for count binface to win, we all know thereâs not even a 1% chance for the people of clacton to ever vote in someone who doesnât want to brutally maim brown and black people
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Rambling and not entirely coherent or convinced but....
Ciel deliberately views Sebastian as a beast, and engages with him with the view of the end of the contract, psychologically depending upon it ending with his consumption to alleviate both his long-term acknowledgement moral responsibility for his actions during it, but moreover his survivor's guilt over real Ciel. By associating this with Sebastian, he inherently associates him with his own destruction. In doing so, as he does draw undeniably closer to Sebastian, I wonder if he is able to assuage some of his guilt regarding real Ciel and profiting from his demise by viewing it as leaning into his own destruction and being beguiled by his death. And how Sebastian, who wants to be anything and everything he can be for him, deals with this being the way Ciel will except him whilst deeply desiring their dynamic to expand into a partnership where Sebastian is accepted and embraced completely by Ciel and kept at his side.
I don't think I've sent you an ask in a while outside of your birthday.
What do you think it would take for Ciel to believe in ghosts? I feel like they have to physically appear before him and he can't explain it away or he gets assaulted by one.
omg remember that crack episode in the anime where he was faced with actual ghosts? thereâs also the phantom and ghost ds game that has ghosts in it but i donât think that can be counted as canon either even if the story was overseen by yana. manga wise i donât think ghosts are even possible just because of how the souls work and the way reapers collect them.
i honestly donât think ciel would believe in ghosts even if he saw one unless sebastian straight up told him: âthat is a ghost, young master.â and even then, heâd be sceptical because heâs just Like That but heâd accept it just because he knows sebastian is contractually obligated to tell the truth.
when he was a kid, he believed in santa so maybe he believed in ghosts too? it would be a cute headcanon
i do not ship these guys bc idgaf about football but i watched the game last night & despite being born and raised in england, i was rooting for norway to win because i, bitter at this country as always, cannot stand to see englishmen happy and yet haaland, absolutely enchanted by bellingham, did not touch that ball as much as he should have and norway lost⌠why are you letting bellingham grab your hip and giggling then cuddling him. why was he beating up england players. play the damn game wtf was going on đđ
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âFor the sake of Ciel, I will...â & âIf that is the way you prefer, I...â
How Elizabeth & Sebastian play matronal, self-sacrificial roles in Kuroshitsuji
A meta-analysis on gender roles in Kuroshitsuji and how Ciel's masculinity and femininity are defined by two of the most important people in his life.
Regardless of whichever way you see Sebastian and Elizabeth in Ciel's life (positive/negative, family/friend/neither), I believe it should be acknowledged that they are shown as harbouring complex feelings when it comes to each other and Ciel. This analysis is ultimately focused on Sebastian and Elizabeth more than Ciel, but in the narrative, they are presented as people who step on their own wants and desires for the sake of him so there inevitably will be a mention of him. This analysis will be on the almost-maternal sacrifices Sebastian and Elizabeth make for 'Ciel' as well as drawing comparison to Rachel. I highly recommend having the following chapters on hand: 2, 14, 37, 50, the Luxury Liner arc, 85, 99, 107-8, 117, 120, the return of r!Ciel (end of Blue Cult arc / start of Blue Memory arc), 133. I have chosen 10 images to include in this post, but you can find all the manga chapters and parallels I reference HERE. (Everything has been numbered and highlighted with clear explanations in the linked images for analysis post.)
From the earliest chapter of Kuroshitsuji, Elizabethâs shoes were drawn as flats, from her first appearance in Chapter 2 though it is not visible when she is dancing with o!Ciel, you can see in the first panels she ever appears in that she is depicted wearing white flats (while Sebastianâs black stiletto heels were first seen in Chapter 13). It is also in chapter 2 where we get our first parallel between her and Sebastian with Sebastian teaching Ciel how to dance the waltz with her. We know Elizabeth would like to wear heels, but she canât because she does not want to be taller than Ciel whose pride and masculinity she tries to protect and ultimately only gives up on protecting when she had to save his life through her swordsmanship. She and Sebastian parallel each other in the fact theyâve both lowered themselves to serve Cielâs needs. Elizabethâs heels represent her limitations as a woman and how she has to make herself smaller to fit in Cielâs world while Sebastianâs heels reflect the nature that he is hiding from Ciel and his position as a servant (lowered a peg from a free demon). Itâs fascinating how we see their heels and flats in the same volume of the same arc (Volume 13, chapters 58 and 61). In fact, this arc draws the most parallels between Elizabeth and Sebastian. For example, Ciel tears off Elizabethâs dress to prevent her from being dragged down by it and proceeds to give her his tailcoat. It is while wearing his tailcoat that she begins to protect him. In this arc, both of Cielâs protectors wear a tailcoat and when Sebastian, after fighting the BDs attacking the boat, is finally out of commission (falls over from injury), he is no longer wearing his tailcoat (as heâs given it to Ciel). Elizabeth even offers to carry Ciel while wearing that tailcoat. The clothing represents whether these characters are being protective or not. Itâs even fascinating how they both apologise to Ciel for not being able to fulfil their respective roles (be a dainty, vulnerable lady who needs protection VS be a perfect, protective butler who never falters). They ought to sacrifice their own selves for Ciel. This is also reflected by their dialogue, in Elizabethâs big character moment in the Luxury Liner arc (58), she says, âFor the sake of Ciel, who is pushing himself to grow up fast, I wear my childish, low-heeled shoes and smile beside him.â On the other hand, Sebastian, in the Green Witch arc (99), expresses a similar sentiment, âHowever, if you are particular to my being such a devil, I shall act accordingly.â (Alt translation: âIf thatâs the way you like it, I will play the part of a devil.â)
Both the characters exist solely for a âCielâ and though their ideas of which Ciel to serve differs (r!Ciel vs o!Ciel). For the majority of the chapters, the only Ciel in the story is o!Ciel.
Visually, Ciel and Elizabeth parallel Vincent and Rachel, a gloomy bluish grey-haired man and a cheery blonde woman. Vincent is also portrayed as holding Rachel in a protective hold when they had died. However, Sebastian also has parallels to Rachel. We know Rachel would spank her kids, itâs even referenced by r!Ciel in the blue memory arc and we know Sebastian also uses corporal punishment as per the Luxury Liner arc. However, a parallel has been hiding in plain sight and I doubt anyone has seen it. In Chapter 133, when r!Ciel is upset his brother wants to go to London to make a toystore, Rachel takes Vincentâs ring and puts it on r!Cielâs hands and tells him the ring belongs on his finger. A complete parallel to the Chapter 2 scene where Sebastian brings back the broken ring (fixed) after o!Ciel throws the ring out of the window (Elizabeth had thrown and accidentally shattered it earlier in the chapter). I think itâs insane that at the end of the memory arc, it cuts back to r!Ciel at the top of the stairwell and o!Ciel at the bottom of it, with Sebastian stood next to him and at the top of the stairs, Elizabeth appears. Both representations of Rachel stood next to the respective Ciel. In my mind, Chapter 2, Chapter 133 and Chapter 143 are intrinsically tied. The first time we see Elizabeth WITH o!Ciel (2) and the first time we see Elizabeth standing AGAINST o!Ciel (143) and with her rightful fiancĂŠ (the visual Vincent/Rachel parallel); the chapter that establishes OUR Ciel as the one who should be wearing the Phantomhive ring through Sebastianâs words (2) and the one that teaches us that REAL Ciel should be wearing it through Rachelâs words (133). Again, both of these characters narratively serve the Ciels, even through their comparisons to Rachel (the twinsâ mother).
To sidetrack for a moment, Sebastian plays a role similar to that of Rachelâs in Chapter 133 but not just in Chapter 2, but also 14 (by letting Francis win and âteachingâ Ciel to lose), all of the memories in the Luxury Liner arc (where we see how he raised Ciel as an Earl), 107 (where he gives the âyou are a leader of menâ speech), 108 (where Victoria compares Ciel to his father and Sebastian proceeds to tell him that if he rests well, heâll grow taller) and 120 (where he tells him it is important to take care of the people on his land and we see the payoff of Cielâs leadership of the Earldom under Sebastianâs guidance as opposed to r!Ciel, see: 151). We also have him inflict the same starvation he is suffering for o!Cielâs soul unto the girls in Cielâs life, notably Elizabeth (37) but also Sieglinde (107). He not only acts as a maternal teacher for o!Ciel (feminine dance partner, repeats the ring scene his mother had with his brother, echoes Queen Victoriaâs words) but also as an etiquette teacher of femininity in general while plays a masculine role visually (for a paternal framing, see Dystheism in Kuroshitsuji).
Anyway, back to parallels between Sebastian and ElizabethâŚ
Other than the staircase scene during r!Cielâs return where they are once again the protector and protected (though itâs ironic since Elizabeth technically protected r!Ciel through BCA but whateverâŚ), we also get two visual parallels of Sebastian and Elizabeth in Chapters 14 and 37 where they are talking about Ciel/looking at him. It is almost sad how insecure Elizabeth is in her ability to make Ciel happy, which is why Sebastian consistently reassures her as his masterâs happiness. It also makes chapter 117 even more hard-hitting where Sebastian questions why Elizabeth is attacking him if she wants to see Ciel smiling. However, it is not just Sebastian who thinks Elizabeth is quintessential aspect for Cielâs happinessâit also goes the other way around. In Sebastianâs faux funeral in Chapter 50, Elizabeth cries and says, âSebastian is a liar, he said he would be by your side forever!â And rejoices when Sebastian turns out to be alive. This implies that she is aware, at least to some extent, how important Sebastian is for Ciel to be alive, let alone happy. Sebastian immediately corrects her and says he doesnât lie, which could just be his ego or another attempt at consoling her like he had done in chapters 14 and 37. He could just be saying he wouldnât leave Cielâs side, so she has nothing to worry about. He even apologises to her in the Luxury Liner arc for making her do his job of protecting Ciel.
Whatâs fascinating is that both of these characters are led into these roles as protector and protected for Ciel by the narrative but ultimately they are far more similar than they are different. Elizabeth suppresses anything that will take away from her femininity like her height, incredible strength and swordsmanship under the guise of cuteness, but Sebastian suppresses the aspects of him that make him weaker like his susception to injury from death scythes, his obsession with cats which he suppresses for o!Cielâs allergies (Chapter 111) and most importantly, his humanityâor lack thereofâwhich Ciel questions and undermines (Chapter 107).
However, this does not change the fact that o!Ciel is portrayed as having a healthier attitude to masculinity and femininity. In fact, the twins have opposing viewpoints on class and gender, which again makes Our!Ciel far more sympathetic for the modern audience than Real!Ciel. As explained by Tanaka in Chapter 151, o!Ciel has pursued business that focuses on women and children as he had anticipated products aimed to these demographics would become more popular (likely due to the rights and protections of women and children steadily increasing), this is coincidentally also where r!Ciel mockingly calls his brother's toy business idea âmiddle classâ and âridiculousâ which again reflects that his Earl Phantomhive status was realised by Rachelâs words âOnly you can wear this ring⌠Only you can be Earl.â VS Sebastianâs âHere's your ring but you still need to work hard.â It is also ironic that he is the one who used Elizabeth for his protection during his recovery as a BD after being the one who inadvertently caused some of her biggest insecurities, while o!Ciel gives the people around him confidence and despite his relationship with Sebastian being toxic throughout the narrative is, the demon has taught him a healthier attitude when acting as a guardian (14, 107, 120)...
Overall, I adore Sebastian and Elizabeth very much and they are both deeply important to the function of the Ciels in this narrative. I think they are insanely complex and both deserve a lot of respect for how interestingly they are depicted. I could probably talk about them a lot more but I think itâs best I cut this off here. As always, please let me know your thoughts, I would love to chat about this topic!
(Donât forget to check out the images for this analysis!)
Related analyses: Dystheism in Kuroshitsuji, Kindness in Kuroshitsuji (Pt1 & Pt2, optional read: Pt3), r!Cielâs use of Elizabeth as a Bodyguard in Blue Cult arc, optional read: Why did Rodney stare at o!Cielâs clothes/accessories in 214, more coming soon...
I think itâs wrong to call people uncultured for it but I canât exactly hold any judgement towards people saying it makes them feel sick or want to die, thatâs their feelings to have over it. Itâs the same with people taking heavy offense to others having a really visceral reaction to the ship (especially when itâs heavy on the sexual side) in the first place, who am I to have any right to be offended by their feelings about something I like when I know itâs not kosher myself? How can I justify having that feeling towards them for their feelings about my feelings? Itâs hypocritical to me in a way I canât ignore. The counter-argument you calling it heteronormativity is performative automatically arises in my head just as easily as I can call their repulsion wrong and/or insincere. After all, you start your own explanation out with âas an intersex person,â which implies you yourself project onto ciel to some degree. And if you donât, then you arenât bringing it up in good faith, because all of a sudden the conversation about a ship becomes unnecessarily personal.
wtf @ the blatant intersexism?? where do people get the audacity to talk about my genitals so freely omg letâs start at the end bc you just assumed a whole lot of shit about my intersexuality and personal feelings
context
1) hey so what the actual fuck are you talking about here? why the hell would i project onto ciel when heâs canonically a biological cis male (confirmed by GWA scene with sieglinde) who has never been even implied to be intersex? if anything, i would relate more to characters like grelle, sebastian or even wolfram who are trans, outside the human gender binary or degendered by the narrative respectively (source). do you know what being intersex means? my intersexuality isnât actually very visible (i control it through hormones and meticulous grooming) and it actually doesnât necessarily have anything to do with my genitals. i didnât mention my intersexuality in relation to the way people prefer to portray cielâs genitals, i mentioned it as an extension of my queerness, because i am an asian person who both queer and intersex and because i was talking about how ASIANS portray QUEER and TRANS people especially women who PROJECT onto QUEER characters they perceive as BOTTOMS? now why the fuck did you think it was appropriate to talk about my intersexuality (and in extension, genitalia) in relation to a conversation about a characterâs genitals when i never related my sex to that topic at all? i said i was part of a demographic of people who are subjugated in asia and i see that the mindsets prevalent across the continent affect how they enjoy ships involving queer people. i even said multiple times the genitals donât matter that much because itâs just fucking fiction but itâs combined with overall feminisation. do not mention my intersexuality like itâs something you can just easily weaponise against me to prove a point, itâs fucking vile.
2) i have no idea what this sentence means âThe counter-argument you calling it heteronormativity is performative automatically arises in my head just as easily as I can call their repulsion wrong and/or insincere.â are you saying my opinion about the people who share similar cultural backgrounds to me about homosexuality and how heterosexual roles are applied (a form of heteronormativity) is performative? what are you saying? i didnât say their repulsion was wrong, i explained why they have it. if you canât understand that, either the english language or comprehension isnât your strong suit. if itâs the former, i understand because this sentence made zero sense but if you speak english natively⌠god help us
3) âitâs hypocritical to me in a way i canât ignoreâ who the fuck are you? the pope? the grand vizier? the ghost of the ayatollah? oo shiver me timbers you canât ignore my hypocrisy đ this ask couldâve been avoided if you took your fingers and typed a simple reply to my post asking me to clarify my stance rather than writing this nonsensical coke rant because you clearly donât understand what i said. itâs not too late to reread everything i said, including links in my previous asks where other people share their perspectives.
4) i clarified i was not offended, i was analysing why these people felt that way, which is deeprooted homophobia. just like shotacons donât like real kids, yaoi loving fujos often donât like real gays. they only like the palatable version that fits the mold of a straight relationship. you know, the first sentence you wrote is the exact same way i think, right? you know i clarified that my issue with that person was the way they treated another human being, not their words about people who liked cielseba, right? and you know the people who felt sick and wanted to die from clsb are overreacting because how the FUCK do you see shota noncon and think âthis is fineâ but seeing a versatile couple makes you sick? idgaf thatâs so odd, keep it to yourself, itâs like me going around saying âSEBT*KER MAKES ME SICKKKK UGHHHHHâ after writing violent dubcon⌠hydrogen bomb (explicit shotapussy sebaciel) vs coughing baby (people who think sebastian and ciel should switch)
to circle back to the first point. stating my existence as an asian intersex person who is queer was relating to my perspective that asians (and people from less accepting countries in general) put queer relationships into certain boxes (someone is the âmanâ and someone is the âwomanâ⌠itâs just advanced homophobia). do not presume what is going on in my pants, do not send me asks like this again but if youâre going to send bad faith asks to me, at least get off anon. be brave and say it to my face. youâre making these wild assumptions about my sex and personal feelings, twisting what i say intentionally or not, but you donât know me and you donât know how i think.
anyway hereâs some pics of the royal gallery in madrid, i think we should all get some cultural enrichment in our lives, otherwise weâll end up mentioning random strangersâ genitals like it has something to do with us x
oh and in regards to that shitty point of âitâs too personalâ, i am talking about a generalised population (asian women and women from nations with less acceptance for queer people) having deep-rooted homophobia that impacts the way they talk to and treat queer people who like different things to them (including playing ârolesâ ie top/bottom/vers that these women donât find palatable on certain body types, ages, personalities, etcâŚ)
truly you people cannot be trusted to be normal towards queer people you disagree with, anon asks off indefinitely bc wtf. my intersexuality being weaponised against me by somebody whoâs not even brave enough to say it to my fucking face.
I think itâs wrong to call people uncultured for it but I canât exactly hold any judgement towards people saying it makes them feel sick or want to die, thatâs their feelings to have over it. Itâs the same with people taking heavy offense to others having a really visceral reaction to the ship (especially when itâs heavy on the sexual side) in the first place, who am I to have any right to be offended by their feelings about something I like when I know itâs not kosher myself? How can I justify having that feeling towards them for their feelings about my feelings? Itâs hypocritical to me in a way I canât ignore. The counter-argument you calling it heteronormativity is performative automatically arises in my head just as easily as I can call their repulsion wrong and/or insincere. After all, you start your own explanation out with âas an intersex person,â which implies you yourself project onto ciel to some degree. And if you donât, then you arenât bringing it up in good faith, because all of a sudden the conversation about a ship becomes unnecessarily personal.
wtf @ the blatant intersexism?? where do people get the audacity to talk about my genitals so freely omg letâs start at the end bc you just assumed a whole lot of shit about my intersexuality and personal feelings
context
1) hey so what the actual fuck are you talking about here? why the hell would i project onto ciel when heâs canonically a biological cis male (confirmed by GWA scene with sieglinde) who has never been even implied to be intersex? if anything, i would relate more to characters like grelle, sebastian or even wolfram who are trans, outside the human gender binary or degendered by the narrative respectively (source). do you know what being intersex means? my intersexuality isnât actually very visible (i control it through hormones and meticulous grooming) and it actually doesnât necessarily have anything to do with my genitals. i didnât mention my intersexuality in relation to the way people prefer to portray cielâs genitals, i mentioned it as an extension of my queerness, because i am an asian person who both queer and intersex and because i was talking about how ASIANS portray QUEER and TRANS people especially women who PROJECT onto QUEER characters they perceive as BOTTOMS? now why the fuck did you think it was appropriate to talk about my intersexuality (and in extension, genitalia) in relation to a conversation about a characterâs genitals when i never related my sex to that topic at all? i said i was part of a demographic of people who are subjugated in asia and i see that the mindsets prevalent across the continent affect how they enjoy ships involving queer people. i even said multiple times the genitals donât matter that much because itâs just fucking fiction but itâs combined with overall feminisation. do not mention my intersexuality like itâs something you can just easily weaponise against me to prove a point, itâs fucking vile.
2) i have no idea what this sentence means âThe counter-argument you calling it heteronormativity is performative automatically arises in my head just as easily as I can call their repulsion wrong and/or insincere.â are you saying my opinion about the people who share similar cultural backgrounds to me about homosexuality and how heterosexual roles are applied (a form of heteronormativity) is performative? what are you saying? i didnât say their repulsion was wrong, i explained why they have it. if you canât understand that, either the english language or comprehension isnât your strong suit. if itâs the former, i understand because this sentence made zero sense but if you speak english natively⌠god help us
3) âitâs hypocritical to me in a way i canât ignoreâ who the fuck are you? the pope? the grand vizier? the ghost of the ayatollah? oo shiver me timbers you canât ignore my hypocrisy đ this ask couldâve been avoided if you took your fingers and typed a simple reply to my post asking me to clarify my stance rather than writing this nonsensical coke rant because you clearly donât understand what i said. itâs not too late to reread everything i said, including links in my previous asks where other people share their perspectives.
4) i clarified i was not offended, i was analysing why these people felt that way, which is deeprooted homophobia. just like shotacons donât like real kids, yaoi loving fujos often donât like real gays. they only like the palatable version that fits the mold of a straight relationship. you know, the first sentence you wrote is the exact same way i think, right? you know i clarified that my issue with that person was the way they treated another human being, not their words about people who liked cielseba, right? and you know the people who felt sick and wanted to die from clsb are overreacting because how the FUCK do you see shota noncon and think âthis is fineâ but seeing a versatile couple makes you sick? idgaf thatâs so odd, keep it to yourself, itâs like me going around saying âSEBT*KER MAKES ME SICKKKK UGHHHHHâ after writing violent dubcon⌠hydrogen bomb (explicit shotapussy sebaciel) vs coughing baby (people who think sebastian and ciel should switch)
to circle back to the first point. stating my existence as an asian intersex person who is queer was relating to my perspective that asians (and people from less accepting countries in general) put queer relationships into certain boxes (someone is the âmanâ and someone is the âwomanâ⌠itâs just advanced homophobia). do not presume what is going on in my pants, do not send me asks like this again but if youâre going to send bad faith asks to me, at least get off anon. be brave and say it to my face. youâre making these wild assumptions about my sex and personal feelings, twisting what i say intentionally or not, but you donât know me and you donât know how i think.
anyway hereâs some pics of the royal gallery in madrid, i think we should all get some cultural enrichment in our lives, otherwise weâll end up mentioning random strangersâ genitals like it has something to do with us x
I see wayyyy more trans!ciel stuff than cielseba stuff on here, ao3, AND twitter, and I know itâs going to sound weird to point out but Iâve never seen any discourse and debate over it. So I feel as though the one fan artist who had such a problem with cielseba was more upset over masculinized ciel (as they exclusively liked fem and trans!ciel), and in that case I donât know why they wouldnât have just said that instead b/c I definitely think they would have received more support for it?
this was a big critique of mine at that time because i saw the heteronormative (& occasionally homophobic) implication that came with people living vicariously through feminising ciel both through portraying his attitude as effeminate and by giving him a vagina (not that itâs really an issue by itself, itâs fiction) but taking issue with the other way people enjoy a character just because theyâre feminine to you and you donât like them masculine is so suspect to me.
but on the other hand, i donât think that artistâs issue is with ciel. they donât like the guy theyâve made into their pseudo-f/o being portrayed in a way thatâs feminine because at the end of the day, itâs more humiliating to be with a man who receives sexually than to be a masculinised women who gives (at least among the conservative asians, my experience as an asian). these sebaciel shippers who say cielseba makes them sick are essentially saying âseeing my preferred top bottoming makes me sickâ and thereâs homophobic implications because ultimately while fiction doesnât directly impact reality, reality always affects fiction, so thereâs preconceived biases on who âlooksâ like a top and who doesnât⌠do they think size corresponds to whoâs âsupposedâ to be topping or bottoming?
this is just my perspective as an intersex queer asian, i donât think it wouldâve made it better because that artist went out of their way to call people uncultured for their preference and others on their side said they felt sick/wanted to die because of cielseba likeâŚ
listen they did something i find terrible not because they dont like cielseba but because they said âi know im airing this out to my 46k followers but they have 6k followers and some of you follow both me and them and that makes me sad :(â i dont care how they worded it, they couldâve just ignored it but they put someone on blast while aware that their audience would attack them and thatâs just cruel imo but the drama is long over so i really dont care enough to dig it up any more than this since itâs well-documented enough
remember that guy that had a single auditory hallucination that told him he had a brain tumor and the exact location and then he went to the doctor and it was fucking right
notice how UK xenophobia is so bad that these people realised AB wasnât originally from the UK and tried to accuse her of lying about her symptoms in order to get free NHS healthcare. first of all, the NHS sucks straight ass and will kill you if youâre healthy let alone if youâre sick. second of all, they were fucking wrong anyway since she lived here for 15 years. and last but definitely not least, she was so relieved after the tumour was gone, she just up and left the UK to go on holiday đ
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the only source of âpersian flawâ as a concept is (white) western sources that mystify the rugs which historically have always aimed to reach absolute perfection and while minor errors exist, nobody purposefully puts flaws in their rugs in iran
please check the source on wikipedia before posting something, orientalism will never die at this rate đ
^ this is their only source btw
more info on why this canât be true below the cut
iranian rugs are far older than islamâs concept of allah (islam is a relatively new religion, younger than 1500 years old), while iranic rugs have existed since 2500 years ago (thatâs even older than christianity) and while judaism (ergo abrahamic religion) existed and people believed in the concept of a singular perfect god (well, we can argue god in judaism wasnât really perfect if we consider the gnostic yahweh-demiurge theoryâŚ) but regardless of that, the pan iranist zoroastrian concept of god/goddess(es) did not tell us to stifle ourselves for the pride of a god and there was no such concept of humility in our art. there was no punishment for aiming for perfection and no shame in having the audacity to aim for it. in fact, if we put flaws in our work, wouldnât it be arrogant in itself to assume that we could achieve perfection but weâre holding back to not âhurt godâs delicate heartâ? thinking of it like that, i wouldnât put it beyond us bitter dystheists to do something like this⌠but i doubt it. as haughty as it sounds, iranian art has always been created by perfectionists who wouldnât be willing to purposefully put flaws into their hard work
even THE mahmoud farshchian who made plenty of islamic art and was a shia who presumably thought a perfect god existed wouldnât ever put a single error in his exquisite paintings so do we really think the people who were hand-making his art into rugs to be framed would make any errors? my own farshchian designed framed rug doesnât have a single error, neither do any of the rugs adorning the floor of my house.
i encourage everyone to take a trip to karbala museum where the farshchian-designed rug âvengeance of godâ is displayed and use their eyes (not their exotic imagination of iranians purposefully ruining their own hard work) and check if they can see a single flaw in it.
sorry if this is a topic that makes you uncomfortable to speak on given how sensitive it can be in fandom spaces, i am curious about what you think causes t/b discourse to get so heated as you mentioned you spoke about this before... but if you'd rather wrap up the discussion it's okay đ tysm again i hope you have an amazing day and yess, i'm looking forward to your new content!!
not at all, i just donât want to dig up past drama, you can always message me directly or search around my blog to see what i have said before regarding this issue.
i can link a few of my posts on it where i explain how i think the discourse has a lot to do with the perception of homosexuality among fujoshis, especially those who come from conservative backgrounds and donât have physical experience with sex (particularly gay sex)
an ask i got regarding t/b discourse
my general opinion with sources
an annoying ask i got with rbs of others who agreed