Loki and Thanos in the Missing Year
Someone just asked me about my views on this topic and I spent two hours writing it out. Since I put the work in, I figured I should post it somewhere in case anyone else is interested. I look forward to the comments.
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i was going to comment as a comment but i talk too much for that so it’s a reblog…
interesting collection of thoughts… some points i agree with, others i don’t.
i do absolutely think LOKI was running his own agenda with the invasion, making it look as if he was complying with thanos’s architecture but constructing his own sub-basement to undermine it at the same time. “that was the plan.” absolutely he had autonomy… he was influenced by the sceptre but not made a robot. so many of the choices he took appeared to be in line with his official intentions on the surface but seriously compromised it in reality. such as indulging himself in stuttgart creating a ridiculously dramatic scene, making sure to be caught on security feeds and the like. all barton asked for was “a distraction” but LOKI went far beyond that, and intentionally got himself captured. settling himself comfortably on the cliff to watch his brother fight iron man instead of escaping. and fury’s question: “then why do i feel like he’s the only person on this boat who actually wants to be here?” it seemed like LOKI wanted to provoke a defense to be prepared so that when the chitauri actually arrived, someone was waiting to meet them. which would be absolutely nonsensical if he was actually serious about winning.
i don’t however believe LOKI was any kind of willing ally of the black order… not even as a trick. i have a lot of reasons why i don’t think this, but here’s a couple (bold):
“you think you know pain? he will make you long for something as sweet as pain” [the other, to LOKI]
in this moment LOKI is plainly terrified, and struggling desperately not to show it. his dealings with this entity depend on LOKI being able to project that he’s on control and not intimidated. at the end of their dialogue the other is behind him and can’t see his face, but LOKI is crumbling inside. he absolutely DOES know pain, and he knows who brings it. his eyes are tearing up and his face looks haunted.
and then the other delivers a taste of that promise with a magical/power blast to the side of LOKI’s face which leaves him trembling and sweating. but prior to their metaphysical conversation, LOKI was calm and seemed physically well.
“if i’m for the axe, then for mercy’s sake, just… swing it. it’s not that i don’t love our little talks. it’s just… i don’t love them.” [LOKI, to odin]
in contrast to LOKI’s usual slick, polished, and well-constructed verbal defenses, here he abandons his usual silvertongue strategy and appears to try to goad odin into executing him.
this is conjecture,but i think it’s because he knows that a swift humane death on asgard is far preferable to what thanos will unleash when he catches up with his failed invasion campaign leader. thanos lost a stone he already possessed because of LOKI and failed to gain the one he was sent to recover. and LOKI would have seen or heard what happens to people who disappoint or betray thanos.
a few additional points:
LOKI was plainly afraid when he faced thanos on the statesman. in fact you see his face drop when the shadow of the ship looms over theirs, when he and thor are standing on the bridge. he’s shaking when thanos casually tortures thor… is he waiting for his brother to fight back? is he testing himself to see if he can stand to see thanos kill him? i can’t say. but he breaks anyhow, and at that moment he knows he’s going to die… all he can hope for is that it’s quick. maybe that’s why the “butter knife”? (not forgetting LOKI had effortlessly slaughtered multiple powerful enemies alone in a single fight with a very similar blade - it was a definite threat.) the taunts? “you will never be a god!” making sure thanos finishes the job.
(reluctant to refer to the series but this particular moment was in line with other scenes in canon) LOKI’s face when thanos appears on the time-theatre screen held an expression of stark terror. before thanos actually did anything to his future self. why would he have been so horrified to see himself facing thanos, if he was simply an ally to whom he needed to make apologies? he didn’t look that afraid to face the avengers and his brother when he was finally subdued - and they were actively trying to kill him. he didn’t look afraid to face odin even though he expected to die. it’s like the other promised… he knew thanos would make him long for something as sweet as pain.
nebula stated thanos tortured her and hated him for it, hated her sister for not trying to prevent it. we know from canon that torture was definitely in thanos’s toolbox and he used it even on those he claimed to love. so it’s not a leap to imagine he used it or endorsed it from his minions to get LOKI to cooperate. AND i also think LOKI tried to twist his dire situation to his own advantage, or at least a reduced disadvantage. i do think he put his silver tongue to work as desperately as he could, to scramble a way to put distance between himself and thanos and give him a chance to sever that hold he had over him. but the way LOKI was behaving throughout the movie, those unguarded moments of fear, of panic even… they had to come from somewhere.
in LOKI’s previous canon appearance, he was the responsible one. the one who cared about protecting lives, who wanted to walk away from the fight, who thought his rash and battle-hungry brother was unfit to rule (a sentiment odin came to share when he saw what thor was capable of). that is his characterisation. it’s completely at odds with how he appeared to behave during the invasion (on a surface level). but he hadn’t changed, he was just hidden by a lot more masks. and he was a lot more afraid. he was on a tightrope between appearing to serve thanos and doing as little harm as possible, while also trying to secure his escape. this doesn’t seem like an arrangement he would have entered into by choice - for the entire movie he’s having the absolute worst time. he’s behaving as though there’s something truly terrifying hanging over his head.
ok i’ll stop here, its getting long.
hopefully op doesn’t take issue with my partial disagreement on their takes. they were interested to read discussion… i’ve provided it lol. not trying to change anyone’s mind, just creating discourse. you’ve probably heard everything i’ve said before… idk. thanks op for sharing your thoughts anyhow it was interesting to read them. always enjoy reading detailed meta about LOKI.
we know from canon that torture was definitely in thanos’s toolbox and he used it even on those he claimed to love. so it’s not a leap to imagine he used it or endorsed it from his minions to get LOKI to cooperate
Also adding onto not willingly working for the Black Order and Thanos using torture and his minions as well. Let’s not forget about what was done to Doctor Strange in Infinity War:
(Sorry for the quality) Here Ebony Maw says to him: “You’ll only wish you were dead.” Right olafter saying Doctor Stranges powers were “quaint” and basically meant for kids. Basically saying his magic is weak compared to his own. But he was able to defeat Strange easily and this promise sounds very similar to the Others promise to Loki.
“If I were to reach our rendezvous on time. With the Time Stone still attached to your vaguely irritating person. There would be…judgement.”
Never has he failed him. Yet what happens when they do fail him? He doesn’t say this lightly. This is him when he says it and to me he looks dead serious.
He’s always calm in his interactions, however he also finds this all to be amusing. Doctor Stranges pain. “Painful isn’t it?”
Ebony Maw definitely has experience in doing this. He knows exactly where he’s placing those to make it the most painful without killing him. He says to Stark he could end him in a second meaning just a little more he could kill Strange. Originally meant for surgery. Precise tools for a precise man. The one who is afraid to fail him and never has. The one that’s always up his ass.
This man’s ass 👇
This is his face he makes when torturing Nebula. Torturing Nebula to get information from Gamora and to me doesn’t seem very father like.
Willingly and has done so many times. “Thanos pulled my eye from my head, and my brain from my skull, and my arm from my body.” (GOTG2)
“Every time my sister prevailed my father would replace a piece of me with machinery, claiming he wanted me to be her equal.”
He did all of this to her without mercy and without a second thought. Imagine what he’d do to someone he doesn’t care about at all.
Remember this is what Loki looked like at the end of Thor 2011.
His teeth are also yellow and nasty.
And this is what he looks like when he arrives on Earth.
Same man who could get beaten by the Hulk and that was the only thing that could stop him and he still only came out with a few scratches and scrapes. In the beginning he looks like that and when they head to the truck he limps and shakes. Visibly in pain.
This is the scene they were talking about with the Other. “If you fail, if the Tesseract is kept from us, there will be no realm, no barren moon, no crevice where he can’t find you. You think you know pain? He will make you long for something as sweet as pain.” Then proceeds to hurt him. He also has a small little tear in his eye when The Other is speaking to him. That doesn’t really look like the face of someone who likes what he’s doing.
Another argument that can be made is that one of the concept arts of the avengers movie is this:
I know this is only concept art and not canon, but this does reinforces the point that he was tortured (I do not believe extra-canon sources such as concept arts and interviews should be used to prove that something is canon without in-canon information. So in this example I will try to link this piece of concept art with the in-canon evidence that he was tortured).
“But that might be the damage of the wormhole”
It is not. We have plenty of canon evidence that traveling via tesseract is not harmful. Thanos does it in infinity war and he is fine, Loki does in the series and he is also fine. The chitauri came through the wormhole and they were doing great.
So that could only mean that he was hurt before. And as the others before have said, he appeared hurt during thor 1 post-credit scene and during the avengers. His relationship with the other was weird, he seemed genuinely afraid, as seen in the movie and some deleted scenes. It is not a jump in conclusion to think that he was tortured.
So why would Thanos torture Loki, if he was planing for him to be the “leader” of such important mission (getting the cube)?
Because Loki have something that Thanos doesn’t.
Loki is the only character in-canon (as far as I’m aware) that can teleport to the tesseract.
Thanos have to be holding the tesseract to travel and the chitauri needed a portal to be opened by a third party. Loki doesn’t.
No one opened a portal for him in the beginning of the avengers, he did it himself. With the hability to teleport to a infinity stone, of course Thanos would be interested. Loki wasn’t willing to collaborate so Thanos would make him willing (by breaking him).
I do not believe that Loki was aware that he was sabotaging the invasion. For me, he was delusional. With the torture and the scepter influencing him, he thought what he was doing was right but internally he knew that this was wrong. That’s why he is so ooc and why he lacks conviction.
(Sorry for any writing mistake, english is not my first language)
