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@littlelambda
this one's also good

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If THE modern translator of the OG Odyssey text wrote this about my film adaptation I’d kill myself
Emily Wilson you’re goated
[image transcript: Nolan's Odyssey lacks many of the elements that make the poem great. It has nothing convincing to say about time, memory, history, war, or about the relationship between one warrior's glorious return and the lives of his family, adversaries, comrades, friends and neighbours. It lacks psychological, emotional, political and ethical depth. Its narrative structure is gimmicky. The writing is abysmal. None of the characters have convincing motivation for their actions or words. There are no sex scenes, and all the food looks horrible. /End image transcript]
I strongly recommend checking out the full article linked by OP, this isn't even as brutal as Wilson gets.
Spoilers for the Nolan Odyssey movie I guess
...
OK so my personal take on the Nolan odyssey movie is that I'm actually ok with alot of the changes he made to the odyssey in order to serve the story being told (the athena visions, the flashbacks to troy, combining the lotus flower and calypso islands, overall theme of xenia) - but some of the things that were included didn't do that and so I was left confused as to why they were added (what was the purpose of the laestergyrians, polyphemus without the nobody trick seemed largely pointless to both the story and themes). Which I can and might expand upon at some point cause I have *thoughts*
There is also no reason it had to be filmed in imax and it was definitely longer than it needed to be - editing in certain scenes could've been tighter without loosing any clarity (Troy scenes most notably)
And, I know this is a common critique of Noland Batman films where he seemed to want to make a crime drama and had to use the ip of Batman in order to be allowed to tell it, but it seemed like a similar thing might have been going on here. He had a story he wanted to tell following the breaking of xenia causing the fall of an age, which was interesting and well done - but why explore that through the odyssey? Those things aren't necessarily relevant to Odysseus; xenia is obviously relevant but the implication of the fall of the bronze age is not at all. Could he not have told the same story without the odyssey "ip" attached?
One of my main problems with the movie is that Nolan pretends to put a huge focus on Xenia and Nostos without actually portraying it.
Xenia is welcoming strangers, or as the movie puts it, Zeus’ law. Nostos is homecoming. Both are cornerstone themes of the Odyssey. So to even see them mentioned here does feel very nice.
HOWEVER he breaks the number one rule of storytelling— show don’t tell. He is CONSTANTLY TELLING us about “Zeus’ Law”—“Hey Telemachus! Remember Zeus’ Law?” “Society’s collapsing because we’re abandoning Zeus’ Law!” While never actually showing any good Xenia. It’s supposed to be extravagant feasts for any strangers without asking a question as to who they are until all the food has been eaten. But no it’s now just “hey, remember Zeus’ Law?” And then nothing actually happens. It’s even worse then show don’t tell— he’s telling INSTEAD OF showing.
And they just horribly misconstrue the definition of Xenia too. They just say it’s the golden rule. Which it’s just simply. Not.
Nostos too— this one is shown a little bit better, but still, he’s constantly TELLING US about it. Such as the scene with Agamemnon where he straight up says “this is an example of when homecoming goes wrong” like no WERE supposed to figure that out for ourselves.
I’m just astounded that this multi million dollar professional movie breaks the number one rule of storytelling over one if it’s MAIN THEMES.
Would anyone be interested in a list of ancient Greek literature for noobs
Ancient Greek lit for people who only mostly know what Greece is
My goal of this list is to give you an idea of what you want to read based on your interests and reasons for diving into Ancient Greek literature. Not to instruct you to read all of this stuff. I have only included things that have either survived in full or have significant amounts of surviving fragments and have public domain translations easily available to find online with minimal digging.
My advice though if you can afford it or find it at your local library is to go for the most recent translations of these works because those will likely be much easier to comprehend for your 21st century brain. It'll also likely be helpful for you to read translator's notes, footnotes, and introductions and read any maps included in your editions because those can often give you important historical and cultural context that may otherwise be confusing for you. The far past is another country so get all the context you feel that you need.
The basics aka what every Greek writer has also read and frequently references back to:
The Iliad and the Odyssey by Homer, stories of the mythical Trojan war and its aftermath. The Iliad is about the ending days of the war and focuses on the hero Achilles, while the Odyssey is about the hero Odysseus getting lost at sea for many years on his way home from the war.
The Theogony and Works and Days by Hesiod, an attempt at tracing the genealogy of the gods and other various myths and personal opinions about them. This is what most people use as reference when talking about Greek creation stories.
Other longer works about Mythology:
The Argonautica by Apollonius Rhodius, the story of Jason and the golden fleece and the adventures his sailing crew of heroes had on the way there.
The Library or Bibliotheca by Pseudo-Apollodorus, basically an ancient reference book on the stories of Greek religion, told in roughly chronological order.
The Dionysiaca by Nonnus, the longest surviving book of ancient Greek literature, it tells the story of the god Dionysus before he ascended to godhood and his trip to and return from India.
The Posthomerica by Quintus of Smyrna, likely written in the 3rd century AD, is an epic poem attempting to tell the parts of the fall of Troy that Homer left out between the death of the prince Hector and the burning of Troy.
Shorter Poetry:
The Homeric hymns, not actually by Homer but by an unknown author or authors, these are a series of short and long poems and songs that tell stories of various gods and also show a bit how they were worshiped.
The works of Sappho, though not much of her poetry has survived, what remains is still good. She mainly wrote love poems about women but also men and is notable for referring to herself in the first person, something which was unusual at the time.
The works of Pindar, probably the most well preserved of the "nine lyric poets" of ancient Greece his work has been seen as confusing and unusual at times, but it's still a treat to read in my opinion.
The works of Bacchylides, a contemporary of Pindar, but his poetry is thought to be much more understandable and approachable.
Plays about Mythology and Folklore, all tragedies:
The works of Sophocles, especially the Oedipus trilogy that includes Oedipus Rex, Oedipus at Colonus, and Antigone which tells the story of the king Oedipus who was doomed by an oracle and the aftermath of his actions on his family.
The works of Euripides, especially Medea about the witch Medea and her betrayal by the hero Jason and the Bacchae, which tells the story of the god Dionysus.
The works of Aeschylus, especially The Oresteia, which is a trilogy of plays including Agamemnon, The Libation Bearers, and The Eumenides which together tell the story of the murder of the Greek king Agamemnon, the consequences of the cycle of revenge that followed, and the pacification of the furies, who are goddesses of punishment.
Selected comedic plays and political satires which are all by Aristophanes because he's the one whose work survived:
The Birds, a comedy about a man who convinces local birds to build a city in the sky and replace the gods.
Thesmophoriazusae or, Women at the Thesmophoria, a comedy about a man who sneaks into a women's only festival where the women debate how to punish the playwright Euripides for something he's written. The play pokes fun at tragic playwrights and poets.
The Knights, a satire of Athenian political life and an open criticism of many real politicians at the time where the real politician Cleon is the villain of the story.
Famous works of philosophy, science, mathematics, and medicine:
The works of Plato, especially The Republic which is about his idea of a perfect society and The Symposium which discusses philosophy through imaginary dialogues with the philosopher Socrates.
The works of Aristotle, and depending on what you're interested in he has books on Ethics, Politics, Poetics, Physics, The Art of Rhetoric, and Metaphysics, usually titled by the subject they discuss.
Sayings and Anecdotes, attributed to Diogenes the Cynic, this is what survives of a work said to collect the sayings of the philosopher Diogenes and other philosophers of the school of Cynicism.
The Hippocratic Corpus, a collection of around 60 texts often attributed to the physician Hippocrates, though this has never been conclusively proven. Notable works in this collection include On Airs, Waters, and Places, Epidemics, On Ancient Medicine, and On the Sacred Disease.
The works of Euclid, especially The Elements, which is a treatise on geometry.
The works of Archimedes, a famous Greek mathematician, especially On the Sphere and Cylinder, Measurement of a Circle, The Method of Mechanical Theorums, and On Floating Bodies.
Enquiry into Plants by Theophrastus, a colleague of Aristotle who had significant influence on the early history of botany.
Histories, historical fiction, geographies, and travel guides. The line between these genres is extremely blurry in this time period:
Histories by Herodotus, an account of the Greco-Persian wars as well as stories collected from around the Mediterranean and observations Herodotus made himself in his travels.
History of the Peloponnesian War by Thucydides, an unfinished account of the Peloponnesian war between Athens and Sparta by an Athenian general. Often seen as unusually neutral and unbiased in his accounting of events for the time period, though it is sometimes unclear how accurate he is.
The works of Xenophon, a military leader and philosopher, especially Hellenica which picks up where Thucydides left off, Cyropaedia which is a (likely fictionalized) biography of Cyrus the Great, and Anabasis which tells the story of Cyrus the Younger's attempt to steal the Persian throne with the help of ten thousand Greek mercenaries.
Description of Greece by Pausanias, a description of parts of Roman era Greece including Pausanias' own experiences in his travels, various cities and religious sites, and descriptions of topography.
Histories by Polybius, a work that only survives partially, is by a Greek who lived in Rome for a time after capture and is one of our main literary sources on the Punic wars between Rome and Carthage.
The works of Plutarch, a priest at the temple of Apollo in Delphi during the Roman era, especially Parallel Lives, which is a collection of biographies of famous Greeks and Romans that Plutarch thought were similar, Life of Alexander, which is a biography of Alexander the Great, and Life of Caesar, which is a biography of Julius Caesar.
Okay that's what I have for you. Go have fun!

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I’ve been thinking on it a bit further and I think that the reason that Nolan’s odyssey has the problems that it does is that it’s afraid to be seen as unserious for even one second.
Like they could’ve and in my opinion should’ve had Zendaya as Athena descend from the heavens in full battle armor but they didn’t. It would’ve been accurate to the original text.
We can’t have anything look rediculous in this movie though I guess. Can’t have a cyclops thinking that a guy is named Nobody. Can’t have a drugged up island of silly lotus eaters that Odysseus has to physically drag his men away from.
Anyways I did mostly enjoy this movie I swear but I wish they’d gotten silly with it even just once.
Okay so I saw the Odyssey yesterday, and I genuinely enjoyed it and yes, I have read the Odyssey multiple times, and no I don’t think the movie was perfect, but I do think it was a good movie for what it did have.
I think it’s very important for everyone to consider the translation Nolan was basing the movie off of and also go in remembering literally no adapt of a book is perfect, like ever. We’ve seen it with Hunger Games, Maze Runner, Divergent, Harry Potter, even game adaptations aren’t perfect. However, not a single one of those movies weren’t enjoyable. As far as I know, the translation Nolan based the movie off of was Emily Watsons translation which does change a few things a good bit as she changed Odysseus’ personality to a much more regretful man than he really was to make the book more “anti-war.”
Things that I liked:
While the actors that got the roles weren’t Greek, I do think they were good picks for each character. I genuinely think Anne Hathaway played Penelope amazingly and we got to see the anger that she also felt during the 20 years of her husband being gone.
Lupita was a beautiful Helen. Jon was a great Menelaus (pretty sure he even got his iconic “let me tell you something” in there lol). Tom was a great Telemachus. Zendaya, Charlize and Samantha played Athena, Calypso, and Circe beautifully.
The monsters and characters for the most part were all wonderfully done and it amazes me that he was able to do what he did without cgi and only sfx. It made everything look much more really and I genuinely loved that.
I actually really liked the route he took with the gods only showing their presence through events and not actually showing their physical presence. I think it showed how much the gods influence, watched over, and punish the Greeks without ever needing to come down genuinely show themselves. This does exclude Athena kind of, as she shows herself as a hallucination to Odysseus but taking the form of a woman Odysseus allowed to die during the battle of Troy. Which I also found really interesting.
The flow was great, nothing felt forced or pushed in just to satisfy the audience and I think that would have gone differently if some of the stuff from the book that was cut was included instead.
While I know the language and way the speak isn’t accurate, I did like that they went with a more modern approach. Because let’s face it, there’s a lot of people that would have been able to understand what they were saying if they planned to do a more poetic and formal way of speaking to match the books and that would have limited the audience greatly. Not saying we should completely cater to illiteracy and stupidity, but for this film I do think it was a necessary change that they still handled well.
I liked the soundtrack a lot, it wasn’t incredible and like “HOLY SHIT”, but it definitely fit the moods and the movie. My personal favorite was Zeus’s Law.
The underworld scene. I just loved everything about it honestly.
I thought Elliot Page played his role really well for the few minutes he was in the movie. Genuinely don’t get the hate.
Things I’m in the middle on:
The Horse. The prop of the infamous trojan horse for this film was beautiful, however I do think it was out of place. The horses face was carved beautifully, all the wood fits together perfect, it’s smooth, sanded, and even stained. It just does make sense to me how they would build something so perfectly made during a war in ancient times. Personally, I think the Trojan Horse in the 2004 Troy movie, was a bit more of an accurate representation of what the horse may have looked like. But at the end of the day, it is film and you really want to draw people’s attention in and make it awesome which is why I understand the decision.
The armor. I’m not gonna get into historical accuracy as like I said before this is film and you want to try to make it cool while also functional. I think they did well making the helmets accurate for the Spartans. The Trojans are a different story as I personally think they made the helmets very.. blocky? They just weren’t shaped properly and the colors were a bit of an odd choice.
Agamemnon. Really cool helmet but literally just aura farmed the whole time, wasnt very important til they got to the underworld and even then he spoke for like 2 minutes then just went back to aura farming.
The lack of color in their clothing. idk why but for some reason it was interpreted that the people of Greece really just wore rags at that time unless you were some kind of royalty lol.
Odysseus’s character. Like I said before, his character changes a bit due to the translation used as reference. But in the movie, Odysseus is portrayed as a much more regretful man than how he was portrayed in more accurately translated versions. He’s not very prideful, his iconic intelligence isn’t shown nearly as much, etc.
Things that were missing / I didn’t like:
There’s no lotus eaters, “nobody” moment, reveal of Odysseus name to Polyphemus, trickery with the wine, olive tree bed, Athena helping Telemachus.
I also want to make it known that up until I saw this movie, I have never seen a Christopher Nolan work (that I know of) so I am not a glazer that loves all of his stuff just because it’s made by him. This is my genuine take on the movie. But overall, I think it’s very important that everyone forms their own opinions AFTER watching the movie instead of just hopping on the bandwagon that fills social media. <3
I have so many thoughts about Nolan’s Odyssey
- The body horror of Circe transforming the men into pigs was beautifully disgusting
- I loved how the existence of the gods was never fully confirmed or denied. Were the storms Poseidon’s wrath or just bad weather? Was Athena appearing to Odysseus with the face of the woman he let die or was he hallucinating out of guilt? Magic clearly existed, because we had a cyclops and a witch and shades of the Underworld, but there’s magic and then there’s divinity. Is everything they say about the gods true or are they just an excuse?
- The removal of the Nobody scene was necessary actually. In the poem, Odysseus gives Polyphemus his real name in a moment of hubris and this causes all the problems later on because now Poseidon knows the name of the man that disrespected him. In the film, the problems are caused by the Greeks breaking Xenia by invading Troy. Keeping the Nobody scene would have detracted from the root cause of all the problems.
- I could write an entire essay about how cleverly Nolan uses events from the Odyssey to make a point about today’s society:
The Trojan War was about trade routes and Helen was just an excuse — just as wars today are waged for oil and resources, and governments give excuses to their citizens to make it seem better.
“The people from the sea” are feared as an invasion of bogeymen threatening innocents, but they’re actually just desperate men trying to find safety.
The Greeks pillage an island and ask “why didn’t you just give us what we wanted? We’re the good guys!” while the village burns behind them, not realising that to the villagers, Greeks and Trojans are all the same.
- Whoever let Anne Hathaway freeze her forehead should be fed to Polyphemus
- I hope Tom Holland escapes Marvel soon because he is a damn fine actor
The more I sort through my thoughts in preparation for my next day off I can use to properly research antiquity (and maybe sail the seven seas to rewatch the odyssey without paying for another expensive movie ticket), I'm realizing how damn important that "Nobody scene" is to the wider themes of the Odyssey. It's like a near perfect distilled version of the themes of the poem and characterization Odysseus and his journey. I've never once considered it this deeply before, but there is such a clear reason that it's probably the one scene everyone knows about the poem. That, and everyone enjoys a good pun. And it's just... not there.
It's also going to (if it hasn't already) be propped up by those who disagree / hate the criticism the movie has gotten as "people are just mad that they lost a JOKE" when no, I am serious, that one scene carried so much that was genuinely lost in removing it. Especially since there aren't other chances to showcase those details in other moments.
But I have a job and little free time so i can't go into it right now! Just trust me! I WILL get back to this! SOME DAY! PROMISE!
My review of Christopher Nolan’s The Odyssey: Fuckass art representation.
By stating that the movie ends at the Late Bronze Age collapse, they establish the period of the movie to be at the time of Aegean art (: a mishmash term for Mycenaean Greek-, Cycladic- and Minoan art from 2800–1100 BC). The stuff in the movie looks nothing like what that is. I must say, we only see one statue, Athena, but it is SO clearly an Ancient Greek sculpture and it pisses me off (not to mention that even if it were placed in Ancient Greece it would have been piss poor representation, because Ancient Greeks worked in bronze and painted marble, so not white marble). Ancient Greece was when the Greeks became infatuated with the human form. In the Bronze Age, before the Dark Ages, this thrive for 'photorealism' was not all that prevalent. Sculptures like the daidala figurines or figurines of Psi and Phi type were the kinds of works that were made back then. For more 'life-like' works we can consider a depiction of a warrior from a Mycenaean chamber tomb in the Acropolis of Athens (14-13th century BC) as a comparison, but even that looks nothing like what Nolan added in the movie. We don't even have any fucking evidence of large sculptures the size of the Athena sculpture from the movie, that shit was straight pulled from his ass.
It is so annoying, especially when you consider that statues from the Aegean period share resemblance to the African and Neolithic art that modernist artists referred to as ‘primitive.’ So Nolan decided that in this great epic telling they can't possibly show any of that ‘primitive’ stuff. No, because Greece was so great always and ever, and it was so so much better than the other ancient societies. Fuck off with your white European elitist perspective of art history. He could have just not included the statue (instead opting for a mural that could have been destroyed in its place) and saved us all a headache.
If you're wondering btw, here is a really interesting thing he could have included if he cared about the Bronze Age that he felt the need to point out:
This is the 'mask of Agamemnon', which (I’m just gonna quote wikipedia on this one) “was discovered at the Bronze Age site of Mycenae in southern Greece. The mask, displayed in the National Archaeological Museum of Athens, has been described by the historian Cathy Gere as the "Mona Lisa of prehistory"” This work is so important that it fills half the google image results if you search 'Agamemnon.'
Nolan could have added a reference to a plot relevant pre pre-historic Mona Lisa (perhaps using it as the motif for the ‘buttons’ that hold up Agamemnon's cape), but said no and instead jerked off some Greek empire cucks for no good reason.

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it's not so much that a cyclops is monstrous because a one-eyed giant who eats people must be a monster; it's that anyone who does not follow your laws, your customs, your culture must be a monster.
polyphemus eats his guests not because he's a cannibal — cannibalism also being a taboo that applies to humans, and he's not human — but because he doesn't follow xenia. polyphemus says to odysseus "we don't respect zeus here," but odysseus approaches polyphemus as if polyphemus is the foreigner. he expects his customs (which serve him, a conquering hero) to take precedence, even though he is the one away from home. he's been away from home for over ten years.
because to odysseus, there's not much difference between the trojans (the city he's sacked) or the cicones (a people he raided on the way home) and polyphemus, right? except that polyphemus is able to turn the tables. he is a monster, not in the sense that he is not a human being — the trojans have not been treated as human beings — but because he can insist that his law be respected in his own home.
and it's not that odysseus can't adapt. look at how differently he approaches nausicaa, or even circe. but his perspective is what we wayfind by, and all the while odysseus, at troy and during the wanderings, is himself foreign.
and then he comes to phaeacia and weeps over songs of war. and then he comes home and doesn't recognize it. and then divine intervention both hides him from and reveals him to his son and wife. and then he has to conquer his own homeland. and then the poem ends, abrupt and final journey spoken of but unresolved. and each of these things makes his perspective strange to himself, and by extension to us. it is exactly at the moment odysseus comes home that he believes himself to be lost, foreign, for good.
Im working on an essay/article about Christopher Nolan's take on the Odyssey. It talks a LOT about "Zeus's Law" and I wanted people's opinion on how he interprets it. Id say, overall he doesnt do a BAD job. I mean, personally, he clearly misunderstands what "Xenia" is. Here are three points I have-
If I remember correctly, they refer to using the wooden horse to sneak into the city of Troy as "breaking Xenia" and... thats not what it means. Xenia is, put very simply, the relationship between guest and host. Calling that move "breaking Xenia" implies the Trojans knew and invited the Greeks into their city. Which, would collectively act as a Household in this light. Yet, they didnt. They didnt invite ANYONE. But maybe one could argue the GREEKS knowing was all that mattered because they knew and they broke the rule. Id also say NO. Again, its not like they were invited as guests and were secretly spies. They were hidden, and the inanimate object was brought in to be set at a temple.
Anyway, another point I think of is if you want Odysseus breaking Xenia, I think itd be easy to argue that in the epic poem Polyphemus gives Xenia to Nobody the Stranger, and gets burned for it -literally. They could have done that, and even included themes of Man vs Monster easily. Instead, they dehumanize Polyphemus even beyond the already inhuman state he's at in the poem. (It all comes back to that damn Nobody scene, or lacktherof.)
Another idea I plan on tackling is the very American-Christian-yet-Atheistic take on Greek religion and I cant help but connect to how the origins of the "golden rule" is the Bible (its found in some form in almost every religion, but the phrase "do unto others..." is from the Bible) and thats how Nolan inteprets Xenia. (Penelope says "treat others..." in the movie. literally quoting it.)
anyway, if anyone else has something to add concerning Xenia, I would like to hear it.
the title for what i want to write about the odyssey movie just came to me. next step- a thesis / point to the whole thing.
Okay so I watched Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey and it's sparked my reinterest in my substack. (lowkey forgot I had one for wayyyy to long, the school year hasn't even started and I'm already busy gahhhh)
so i'm planning on diving back into the odyssey specifically and might post an essay... at some point. god, this might take a while.
Tomorrow I'll relax. Tomorrow I'll do laundry. Tomorrow I'll sort my clothes. Tomorrow I'll watch those videos. Tomorrow I'll catch up on my favorite show. Tomorrow I'll finally watch that new show. Tomorrow I'll watch that recommended movie. Tomorrow I'll read all those books. Tomorrow I'll draft that essay. Tomorrow I'll continue my fiction WIP. Tomorrow I'll learn to draw. Tomorrow I'll play the cello again. Tomorrow I'll curate some pinterest boards. Tomorrow I'll go through old jewelry. Tomorrow I'll clean my room. Tomorrow I'll bake a cake. Tomorrow I'll bake cookies. Tomorrow I'll bake vatrushkas. Tomorrow I'll cook some pot stickers. Tomorrow I'll bake brownies. Tomorrow I'll cook pasta with homemade sauce. Tomorrow I'll bake a new recipe I've never tried before. Tomorrow I'll go grocery shopping. Tomorrow I'll gas up my car. Tomorrow I'll scroll social media. Tomorrow I'll catch up with friends. Tomorrow I'll sort my items to trash/donate/sell piles in preparation for moving. Tomorrow I'll figure out school bills. Tomorrow I'll figure out my car's settings with my father. Tomorrow I'll hang out with my brother. Tomorrow I'll hang out with my sister. Tomorrow I'll hang out with my other sister. Tomorrow I'll hang out with my other other sister. Tomorrow I'll talk with my mother. Tomorrow I'll call my friend. Tomorrow I'll make plans for my next day off. Tomorrow I'll queue up some tumblr posts. Tomorrow I'll plan my substack posts. Tomorrow I'll write poetry. Tomorrow I'll do character work. Tomorrow I'll world-build. Tomorrow I'll listen to the new album. Tomorrow I'll listen to the old album. Tomorrow I'll find a new artists. Tomorrow I'll catch up on my "need to listen" playlist. Tomorrow I'll catch up on my favorite youtubers. Tomorrow I'll catch up on the latest stupid drama. Tomorrow I'll play video games. Tomorrow I'll.... Tomorrow I'll... I-
Tomorrow.

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I should have known better than to try to PLAN what Ill talk about next. Ive started like, three/four new articles and its the busy season at my job so I dont have time to research for or write any of them.
"why make a substack?" i ask myself... well you see, i have conversations with myself in the car driving to work. And sometimes I pause and realize im onto something. So I write my ideas down and now i must Do Something With Them or Perish.