F Yeah Original Titans

Well, tough one. Garth is probably the one of his "siblings" Dick interacts with the least. But I also thinks Garth is the one he has less arguments with since Garth respects his leadership skills.

When Garth was going to become king of Atlantis, he went to have a talk with Dick about it first instead of someone from Atlantis. Both because Dick had recently taken the mantle of Batman and might understand what he was going through, but also because he needed to talk with a friend he has a lot of respect for. It was also Dick that Garth talk to right before his wedding about his nerves and how he still feels like he is sort of betraying Tula.

Yep, just because you don’t hang out with someone as much as you do with other friends doesn't mean you can’t be close to them.

So, someone asked me what the original five Titans thinks of Batman.

I want you to keep in mind that DC characters’ relationship to Bats can change a lot, especially since so many writers want to include Bats in their comics. But this is what they think of him as far as I’m concerned.

I already talked plenty of Dick and Bruce. They have an unsteady but all in all good relationship. It took them some time to get there, but they respect and love each other.

There is not much to say about Donna and Garth. They know about Batman mostly from what Dick has told them, and since Dick has been spending a lot of time feeling less than warmly about his mentor, they don’t like him as such. Think of it as a you-messed-with-my-brother- dickhead sort of dislike.

Roy knows Batman a bit better than Garth and Donna since his mentor was friends with him. He sees him as that weird uncle he doesn’t want to hang out with. Even more so because he as a kid tried to shoot Bats with a suctioncup arrow for funsies when he had his back turned… and then Batman turned and grabbed the arrow. That’s what made Roy truly spooked by just being in the ame room as him. But he doesn’t dislike him as such, they even worked together once where he realized that he is way more sensitive than most give him credit for.

Wally is probably the most successful Titan as he was the first to join the JLA. Because of that, he has been Batman’s colleague for years. Not partner, not sidekick. Colleague. So he has a lot of respect for Bats and knows how to work with him, possibly better than Dick does since he is not as emotionally connected to him. Batman also sees Wally as a colleague and only ever once belittled him when they got in a argument about Captain Boomerang killing Tim Drake’s dad. Batman accused Wally of not keeping his enemies on check, but this was a statement when his “son” was hurting and he therefor also was hurting.

Also, let’s remember, he was brought up by Ollie and Hal. Not exactly Bats’ biggest fans - calling them friends is a bit of a stretch given how contentious their relationship was and how judge Bruce was and how much Ollie hated it. After Identity Crisis they were basically screwed.

Here’s the part right before the Roy strip.

Sure, Roy was sad about Ollie, but he spent the whole comic being annoyed with Bruce (for treating him - so probably the Titans too - as kids). Sure, Bruce tried brushing it off as just Roy missing Ollie, but lets remember, Roy dealt with other (less annoying heroes) post Ollie’s death and didn’t lash out at them. 

Overall, I don’t think Roy particularly likes Bruce. 

During Outsiders, Roy and Dick had a fight:

Not exactly how you describe someone you can stand.

@thequiver​ wrote a great answer: https://thequiver.tumblr.com/post/674945051632271360/since-some-people-seem-to-think-that-i-didnt-take

There’s even a Titans comic where Dick tells Donna ‘you and Roy have to stop playing the your dad sucks (paraphrasing) card’ implying that’s Roy’s bitched about Bruce before.

And I don’t think Wally’s particularly fond of him either - especially not after he had kids. He’s been disparaging of the number of Robin’s Bruce has had more than once.

Here’s a panel from Rebirth.

There was a piece when Dick became Batman, and Donna and Wally came to Gotham to talk to him about how he shouldn’t do what Bruce did - shouldn’t let the cape and cowl swallow him hole. Wally even said [in relation to Dick become more like bruce] ‘The cowl is swallowing you whole. I’d hate to have to mourn Dick Grayson’. 

Kori didn’t like Bruce either ‘cause he was a judgemental arsehole to her.

I think the Titans respect Bruce’s skills, but not necessarily the man himself. He’s usually a controlling, condescending jerk to them. 

And it’s not like they don’t understand him or something - if anything, they understand him too well. Dick’s just got the unfortunate impediment of an emotional bond with Bats that prevents him from seeing very clearly. None of the other Titans have that. They’ll work with Bruce while necessary, but that’s all he is - the intelligent, arsehole dad of their childhood friend. I can’t remember exactly when, but all the Titans hold Bruce up as Dick’s not-to-be yardstick. They say pretty unflattering stuff about him.

Batman have been friends with Green Arrow and Green Lantern for years. Is their relationship perfect? No. But they still like each other, even if they criticize one another from time to time(more than often LOL). Hal has been in the Batcave a couple of times, often enough to grow a liking to Alfred’s tea. And Hal can create a microscope with Bruce’s preferred settings as easy as riding a bike. And as for Ollie… Ollie is on everyone’s case all the dang time, Bruce just makes it easy for him:P Friends fight and get in arguments, it’s a thing.

The Batman/Arsenal team-up had Roy bickering and criticizing Batman, but it also had Batman proving Roy wrong in his assumptions about him. And keep in mind that Roy is on edge here since Ollie had not died long before this story AND he is on a case that involves the woman he loves despite her being an evil shit. He has had some teamups with Bats afterwards where he was on more relaxed terms with him, like when Ollie returned from the grave.

Roy’s little spiel about how much Batman sucks was from the time around Identity Crisis and the leadup to Infinite Crisis where Batman was super paranoid and detached since he had realized that the JLA had not only screwed around with Dr. Light’s brain, they had also brainwashed Bats so he would forget. Then One year Later happened and he got better.

I said that Wally respected him as a colleague and knew how to work with him, not that he liked him. 

That panel of Titans, two things: A) this is a different Batman/Flash relationship due to Rebirth screwing around with the timeline to try make readers less pissed about Flashpoint. B) Why exactly is Wally pissed about Bats pointing out that he has a HEARTH PROBLEM and should probably be home resting instead of running around with the speed of light? See, a lot of writers kind of milk the whole no-one-likes-Batman-because-he-is-a-dick trope to the point it gets sort of silly.

That issue of Titans shows how Dick becoming Batman was a disaster from a comic universe perspective since different writers had different ideas of what it would mean for Dick to take the cape and cowl. In his own series, Dick was unsure if he really SHOULD become Batman and at first only fought crime in the Batmobile so he didn’t have to step out as Nightwing and make it clear Batman was not around. And when he DID become Batman, he had to become a very different one to make it work, including letting cameras record him as well as changing the costume since it weighted a ton. He was never gonna let the cowl eat him up because he could never become THE Batman and instead became the new one. One who even had fun being a superhero.

No offence to Kori, but she can be a bit sensitive now and then. And I honestly can’t recall Batman interacting with her directly. Do recall when she first met him when the TT and Outsiders teamed up that she disliked how Bruce made Dick feel, but that is honestly on Dick. When Dick finally told Bruce he should lead the mission, Batman let him and complimented him on his amazing leadership skills. Bruce never liked Kory much, partly because of his role as Dick’s father and was worried she wasn’t good for Dick.

1. I know Ollie and Bruce have worked together and that’s why I see them as friendly - but not friends. They’ve (and Hal) have been on the same team long enough to know each other, but I see their differences as far too rooted in principle to be dismissed as friendly arguments. For example, their differing treatment of their kids - Ever since the 80s (before the JL became significant) Ollie was always far more open about caring for and loving Roy than Bruce was with Dick. Ollie always disagreed with Bruce’s treatment of Dick (for example how he just replaced him without asking). He even called him out on his behaviour with Jason before the Batwriters hand waved it away (just like that panel where Ollie says Dick is Bruce’s kid and Bruce says he’s more than that. Well, okay??? that doesn’t mean Ollie’s wrong about him being young and needing support!). When Ollie (Snowbirds) kicked Roy out, he went after him in the same arc and apologised and didn’t demand forgiveness and worked for it in contrast to Bruce’s ‘I can do no wrong’). Bruce, on the other hand, kicked Dick out for the temerity of …. having friends and opinions of his own? 

During Outsiders, Roy and Ollie were talking about Dick’s struggles post Donna’s death (something Bruce never bothered to do) and Ollie said, quite disapprovingly/pityingly that Dick loved Bruce too much to actually step out of his shadow (in relation to Dick naming them the Outsiders). Just, overall, Ollie and Hal have said multiple things regarding Bruce’s (lack of) ability to be a good father. 

There’s a difference between Ollie’s arguments with say, Clark or Diana and his arguments with Bruce - I’d say he actually liked the former. So, yeah, I don’t actually see them as friends. 

2. Like I said, Roy managed to team up with other superheroes post Ollie’s death and he wasn’t anywhere near as on edge or angry with them. It was Bruce’s behaviour in particular that he was criticising - and with good reason, reasons that he’d always disliked Bruce for. 

Also, how did Bats prove his assumptions wrong? He was as controlling and arrogant as ever? Plus, he arrested Cheshire in front of Lian anyway?

And even if Roy WAS on edge, he had valid grievances about the way Bruce was treating him. I don’t think his criticisms don’t count just because Roy was upset?? Like, Bruce WAS being an controlling, condescending jerk throughout the issue. Plus, you don’t say someone is the PRICE your friend had to pay for being as good as they are if you like said persion. Roy’s criticisms of Bruce’s effects on Dick’s iffy self esteem were very valid and are a reflection of what Roy thought of him.

3. Roy didn’t interact much with Bruce around IC, so most of his interactions with Bruce were BEFORE that, when Bruce was normal, so you can’t excuse it away really. PLUS, Roy didn’t know about the mind wiping, so to him, Bruce was being his normal, paranoid self anyway? Not that it was out of character for him - basically any Bat appearance in the NTT anyone? 

Also, Roy’s comments about Bruce have been pretty consistent and different Titans have described Bruce pretty unflatteringly as the various events (from different writers over the years) I’ve mentioned above show - you’ll notice they haven’t said the same about the other mentors. 

4. About the Wally panel, I know it’s a different relationships, but I don’t remember Bruce and Wally interacting very significantly when Wally was Flash (please lmk it you do).

Also, it was quite clear that Wally wasn’t mad about the heart thing per se, he was being snarky because Bruce was being controlling and jerk-ish. The Titans weren’t a sub-branch of the JL OR funded by Bruce, and as such Bruce had the same right to control them that the TITANS would have had to shut down the JL post Tower of Babel or post IC or during Flashpoint or during one of their many failures. So, yeah, that wasn’t the writers milking the batman is a jerk thing (they usually gloss over most of the shitty stuff he does), just Wally insulting Bruce after Bruce was an annoying hypocrite. Bruce kinda just assumed he had control over the Titans despite all of them being adults who’d fought crime for like a decade. I can’t imagine ANY of the Titans liking that or thinking very highly of the man.

Also, Wally didn’t want to die either - he wasn’t trying to, and only used his powers when not doing so would have killed Dick. 

I posted it to show what Wally generally thought of him - especially combined with how he and the Titans KNEW what a jerk Bruce was to Dick. And with how he basically told Dick that him becoming like Bruce would be the worst thing in the world - that he (Wally’d) have to mourn him (implying they wouldn’t be friends anymore).

Also, most of the fights the Titans had were about DICK occasionally acting too Bruce-y for their tastes. So, yeah, don’t see the original being a hit. 

I can’t find the panel, but in one of the recent comics, Bruce criticised Wally for letting Irey join him and Wally told Bruce off about the number of Robins he’d had and had gotten killed - so I definitely think Wally, like the other titans quite dislikes Bruce. Again, an example of what I think is the Titans’ collective dislike of Bruce starting with his treatment of Dick and expanding with his dismissal and condescending attitude towards them.

5. ‘Dick becoming Batman was a disaster from a comic universe perspective since different writers had different ideas of what it would mean for Dick to take the cape and cowl.’

I don’t agree?? I’ve read the end of Nightwing 1996, BftC and Grant Morrison’s run. In all of which (as well as occasionally in his solo), Dick worries about becoming like Bruce - it’s part of why he doesn’t want to take on the cowl - and how to be different while still being the Batman, so I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. Yes, Dick ended up being a different kind of batman, but that took time and effort and it doesn’t take away from how worried he was that it would happen. Like, Dick’s said SO MANY TIMES that he didn’t want to become Bruce, and that he was scared of becoming like Bruce and so on. 

The cowl swallowing him was a pretty legitimate fear that HE expressed multiple times, in different series, under different authors. Yes, it didn’t happen and Dick was different kind of Batman, but becoming as controlling and depressed and cut off from people Batman was a fear Dick had battled with (for years). And Wally and Donna only CAME to Gotham because he had cut himself off from his friends and any non-Gotham heroes. They were scared Dick WAS becoming like Bruce - and from their responses, they didn’t think it was a good thing. And their specific criticisms are a reflection of their rather poor opinion of Bruce. Which is what I was pointing out.

Like, Dick NOT becoming like Bruce doesn’t invalidate his fear that he might (and saying that kinda cheapens his efforts to not do so?). 

5. I know Dick originally quit being Robin himself, but there are FOUR different versions where he didn’t, so I’d say him quitting Robin of his own free will and giving Jason Robin is the anomaly at this point. It’s like how Jason was originally the child of acrobats - him being from the streets isn’t really considered a retcon anymore. I don’t think you can dismiss the most popular/known version of Dick transition from Robin to Nightwing as just weird? 

Like, over the years, Bruce has gone from being a good, if awkward father to a botherline abusive one (according to most writers’ versions of him and in multiple series). And I think the Titans’ opinions of him reflect that reality. In one version (where Dick found out about Jason being Robin in a newspaper), Kori was standing right behind him in Titans Tower. Pretty sure the OG Titans knew what Bruce did.

There’s even a strip of him and Roy talking about it when Roy says they (Dick and Roy) never mattered to them (Bruce and Ollie) (this was directly in the aftermath of Snowbirds, so at least Ollie had the excuse of Roy’s and his relationship was the worst it had ever been, but you’ll notice atleast Ollie apologised and tried making it up to Roy).

So yeah, in conclusion, I think Roy dislikes Bruce the most of all the Titans.

6. Kori wasn’t being sensitive?? Bruce was super judging of her willingness to kill and disapproved greatly of her being with Dick. And yes, Dick should have stood up for her (he later admitted that he had no right to ask Kori to change her beliefs like that when as Kori’s ever been was accepting of Dick), but it doesn’t change the fact that Bruce was an arse to her when he shouldn’t have been. Also, I forgot exactly where (I think it was after hers and Dick’s interrupted wedding) that Kori was thinking about how Bruce had always judged her and never liked her for Dick.

Even Tim knows Bruce never really liked her, and he basically hero worshipped him.

Bruce even dismissed hers and Dick’s relationship to Barbara Gordon, saying ‘that thing with the alien won’t last’. Really don’t think she’s being over sensitivity.

There have been multiple times Kori (and the others too, but mainly her) have noticed the effect going back to Gotham had on Dick - most notably when Kori said ‘he [Dick] hasn’t been the same since he came back from seeing Bruce’ (after Jason’s death, when Bruce punched Dick, blamed him for Jason dying and kicked him out). And while (maybe) the way Bruce made Dick feel is on him, it doesn’t change the fact that Bruce was being kinda dismissive and annoying even in the Outsiders/NTT crossover WHICH WAS WHAT Dick was angsting over (and Kori meant when she and Wally agreed to not liking the way Bruce was treating Dick). Like, who just decides a JOINT case means you get to take over completely?! He had no right to tell Dick HE was ‘going over the line’ when all Dick did was correct his misinformed strategy. While Bruce may have finally admitted to being wrong and ended up praising Dick, it doesn’t erase that his actions (especially to Titans who’d never met him before) would come across as dismissive of their autonomy and accomplishments. 

The other Titans were around when Dick found out about Jason’s death and couldn’t have thought much of Bruce’s decision not to atleast try informing or messaging him.

And the reason Dick quit the Titans was, as he said, not because of him or them, but because Bruce and Tim needed him 'cause Bruce couldn’t keep his shit together. Again, something I’m pretty sure the Titans held against Bruce - not that he needed help, but that Dick still was so loyal to a man who’d hurt and betrayed him time after time. I’ve had friends bend over backward for AWFUL parents, and I’ve always kinda blamed the parents for not even having the decency (after ruining their childhoods) to let them go.

So, someone asked me what the original five Titans thinks of Batman.

I want you to keep in mind that DC characters’ relationship to Bats can change a lot, especially since so many writers want to include Bats in their comics. But this is what they think of him as far as I’m concerned.

I already talked plenty of Dick and Bruce. They have an unsteady but all in all good relationship. It took them some time to get there, but they respect and love each other.

There is not much to say about Donna and Garth. They know about Batman mostly from what Dick has told them, and since Dick has been spending a lot of time feeling less than warmly about his mentor, they don’t like him as such. Think of it as a you-messed-with-my-brother- dickhead sort of dislike.

Roy knows Batman a bit better than Garth and Donna since his mentor was friends with him. He sees him as that weird uncle he doesn’t want to hang out with. Even more so because he as a kid tried to shoot Bats with a suctioncup arrow for funsies when he had his back turned… and then Batman turned and grabbed the arrow. That’s what made Roy truly spooked by just being in the ame room as him. But he doesn’t dislike him as such, they even worked together once where he realized that he is way more sensitive than most give him credit for.

Wally is probably the most successful Titan as he was the first to join the JLA. Because of that, he has been Batman’s colleague for years. Not partner, not sidekick. Colleague. So he has a lot of respect for Bats and knows how to work with him, possibly better than Dick does since he is not as emotionally connected to him. Batman also sees Wally as a colleague and only ever once belittled him when they got in a argument about Captain Boomerang killing Tim Drake’s dad. Batman accused Wally of not keeping his enemies on check, but this was a statement when his “son” was hurting and he therefor also was hurting.

Also, let’s remember, he was brought up by Ollie and Hal. Not exactly Bats’ biggest fans - calling them friends is a bit of a stretch given how contentious their relationship was and how judge Bruce was and how much Ollie hated it. After Identity Crisis they were basically screwed.

Here’s the part right before the Roy strip.

Sure, Roy was sad about Ollie, but he spent the whole comic being annoyed with Bruce (for treating him - so probably the Titans too - as kids). Sure, Bruce tried brushing it off as just Roy missing Ollie, but lets remember, Roy dealt with other (less annoying heroes) post Ollie’s death and didn’t lash out at them. 

Overall, I don’t think Roy particularly likes Bruce. 

During Outsiders, Roy and Dick had a fight:

Not exactly how you describe someone you can stand.

@thequiver​ wrote a great answer: https://thequiver.tumblr.com/post/674945051632271360/since-some-people-seem-to-think-that-i-didnt-take

There’s even a Titans comic where Dick tells Donna ‘you and Roy have to stop playing the your dad sucks (paraphrasing) card’ implying that’s Roy’s bitched about Bruce before.

And I don’t think Wally’s particularly fond of him either - especially not after he had kids. He’s been disparaging of the number of Robin’s Bruce has had more than once.

Here’s a panel from Rebirth.

There was a piece when Dick became Batman, and Donna and Wally came to Gotham to talk to him about how he shouldn’t do what Bruce did - shouldn’t let the cape and cowl swallow him hole. Wally even said [in relation to Dick become more like bruce] ‘The cowl is swallowing you whole. I’d hate to have to mourn Dick Grayson’. 

Kori didn’t like Bruce either ‘cause he was a judgemental arsehole to her.

I think the Titans respect Bruce’s skills, but not necessarily the man himself. He’s usually a controlling, condescending jerk to them. 

And it’s not like they don’t understand him or something - if anything, they understand him too well. Dick’s just got the unfortunate impediment of an emotional bond with Bats that prevents him from seeing very clearly. None of the other Titans have that. They’ll work with Bruce while necessary, but that’s all he is - the intelligent, arsehole dad of their childhood friend. I can’t remember exactly when, but all the Titans hold Bruce up as Dick’s not-to-be yardstick. They say pretty unflattering stuff about him.

There is no way Roy looks at Bruce as some “uncle” figure. The usage of “uncle” was more to assuage Lian watching Batman getting her mom arrested not because Roy was telling Lian about some kinda relationship between him and Bruce. Also Ollie and Bruce ain’t “friends” 😁

I’m sorry but Wally is literally the third guy in the Flash mantle. He stepped into a twice worn mantle and had a solo ongoing for q long time. And if that’s the measure of success, then Dick outstrips Wally. He had a solo book in the 40s-50s, originated TWO mantles that padded Batman’s legacy with his singular actions.

Saying Dick’s Robin was Batman’s sidekick is toeing the narrative DC has been foisting on us because it wants equivalency of the others who wore Robin with Dick. I’m sorry but that’s not happening. We have 44 years of Dick being Robin, Batman’s PARTNER, not sidekick, certainly not in the sense of the word the others were sidekicks. Dick and Bruce were The Dynamic Duo NOT Batman and Kid Batman. You know who was? Wally. West. He hero worshipped Barry’s Flash. Wally did the same experiment Barry said gave him his power. Wally called himself Kid Flash. I like Wally but let’s not pretend that Wally was not a sidekick. I’m happy for Wally and his JLA and Flash runs and his shepherding of the Flash Fam, but way before a 20 something Wally was Bruce’s “colleague” in JLA, an 8 year old Dick Grayson was Bruce’s colleague in their own books and with Superman in World’s Finest.

I said that Bats is Roy’s “creepy” uncle, as in that family member you just so happen to know but not necessarily be crazy about. That comment had nothing to do with Roy making Batman Lian’s honorary uncle. And YES, Bruce and Ollie are friends, they argue and get on each others nerves, but they trust one another and often help the other one out just because. Ollie is one of the few people Bruce can have a conversation with where he even makes jokes. Batman is an honorary member of the Arrow family and have assisted said family in matters such as Ollie’s return from the grave, helped rebuild Star City and the search for Connor.

I get your point about Dick and Wally, but it also feels like you underestimate Wally “stepping” into a “worn” mantle. Wally not only succeeded Barry, he outdid him, even if Wally would never admit it. He unlocked the full potential of the Speed Force, he made the Flash name his own. He stepped out of Barry’s shadow but still made it important to keep the memory of his mentor and friend alive.

I didn’t call Dick a sidekick. If anything, Dick’s problem was that he thought of himself as the sidekick and resented Bruce for it while Brue thought of Dick as his partner and friend, then later his son. Whenever Dick yells at Bruce about his issues related to him, Bruce is usually just sad and says that he is sorry if Dick felt that way, even more so if he made him feel like that.

So, someone asked me what the original five Titans thinks of Batman.

I want you to keep in mind that DC characters’ relationship to Bats can change a lot, especially since so many writers want to include Bats in their comics. But this is what they think of him as far as I’m concerned.

I already talked plenty of Dick and Bruce. They have an unsteady but all in all good relationship. It took them some time to get there, but they respect and love each other.

There is not much to say about Donna and Garth. They know about Batman mostly from what Dick has told them, and since Dick has been spending a lot of time feeling less than warmly about his mentor, they don’t like him as such. Think of it as a you-messed-with-my-brother- dickhead sort of dislike.

Roy knows Batman a bit better than Garth and Donna since his mentor was friends with him. He sees him as that weird uncle he doesn’t want to hang out with. Even more so because he as a kid tried to shoot Bats with a suctioncup arrow for funsies when he had his back turned… and then Batman turned and grabbed the arrow. That’s what made Roy truly spooked by just being in the ame room as him. But he doesn’t dislike him as such, they even worked together once where he realized that he is way more sensitive than most give him credit for.

Wally is probably the most successful Titan as he was the first to join the JLA. Because of that, he has been Batman’s colleague for years. Not partner, not sidekick. Colleague. So he has a lot of respect for Bats and knows how to work with him, possibly better than Dick does since he is not as emotionally connected to him. Batman also sees Wally as a colleague and only ever once belittled him when they got in a argument about Captain Boomerang killing Tim Drake’s dad. Batman accused Wally of not keeping his enemies on check, but this was a statement when his “son” was hurting and he therefor also was hurting.

Also, let’s remember, he was brought up by Ollie and Hal. Not exactly Bats’ biggest fans - calling them friends is a bit of a stretch given how contentious their relationship was and how judge Bruce was and how much Ollie hated it. After Identity Crisis they were basically screwed.

Here’s the part right before the Roy strip.

Sure, Roy was sad about Ollie, but he spent the whole comic being annoyed with Bruce (for treating him - so probably the Titans too - as kids). Sure, Bruce tried brushing it off as just Roy missing Ollie, but lets remember, Roy dealt with other (less annoying heroes) post Ollie’s death and didn’t lash out at them. 

Overall, I don’t think Roy particularly likes Bruce. 

During Outsiders, Roy and Dick had a fight:

Not exactly how you describe someone you can stand.

@thequiver​ wrote a great answer: https://thequiver.tumblr.com/post/674945051632271360/since-some-people-seem-to-think-that-i-didnt-take

There’s even a Titans comic where Dick tells Donna ‘you and Roy have to stop playing the your dad sucks (paraphrasing) card’ implying that’s Roy’s bitched about Bruce before.

And I don’t think Wally’s particularly fond of him either - especially not after he had kids. He’s been disparaging of the number of Robin’s Bruce has had more than once.

Here’s a panel from Rebirth.

There was a piece when Dick became Batman, and Donna and Wally came to Gotham to talk to him about how he shouldn’t do what Bruce did - shouldn’t let the cape and cowl swallow him hole. Wally even said [in relation to Dick become more like bruce] ‘The cowl is swallowing you whole. I’d hate to have to mourn Dick Grayson’. 

Kori didn’t like Bruce either ‘cause he was a judgemental arsehole to her.

I think the Titans respect Bruce’s skills, but not necessarily the man himself. He’s usually a controlling, condescending jerk to them. 

And it’s not like they don’t understand him or something - if anything, they understand him too well. Dick’s just got the unfortunate impediment of an emotional bond with Bats that prevents him from seeing very clearly. None of the other Titans have that. They’ll work with Bruce while necessary, but that’s all he is - the intelligent, arsehole dad of their childhood friend. I can’t remember exactly when, but all the Titans hold Bruce up as Dick’s not-to-be yardstick. They say pretty unflattering stuff about him.

Batman have been friends with Green Arrow and Green Lantern for years. Is their relationship perfect? No. But they still like each other, even if they criticize one another from time to time(more than often LOL). Hal has been in the Batcave a couple of times, often enough to grow a liking to Alfred’s tea. And Hal can create a microscope with Bruce’s preferred settings as easy as riding a bike. And as for Ollie... Ollie is on everyone’s case all the dang time, Bruce just makes it easy for him:P Friends fight and get in arguments, it’s a thing.

The Batman/Arsenal team-up had Roy bickering and criticizing Batman, but it also had Batman proving Roy wrong in his assumptions about him. And keep in mind that Roy is on edge here since Ollie had not died long before this story AND he is on a case that involves the woman he loves despite her being an evil shit. He has had some teamups with Bats afterwards where he was on more relaxed terms with him, like when Ollie returned from the grave.

Roy’s little spiel about how much Batman sucks was from the time around Identity Crisis and the leadup to Infinite Crisis where Batman was super paranoid and detached since he had realized that the JLA had not only screwed around with Dr. Light’s brain, they had also brainwashed Bats so he would forget. Then One year Later happened and he got better.

I said that Wally respected him as a colleague and knew how to work with him, not that he liked him. 

That panel of Titans, two things: A) this is a different Batman/Flash relationship due to Rebirth screwing around with the timeline to try make readers less pissed about Flashpoint. B) Why exactly is Wally pissed about Bats pointing out that he has a HEARTH PROBLEM and should probably be home resting instead of running around with the speed of light? See, a lot of writers kind of milk the whole no-one-likes-Batman-because-he-is-a-dick trope to the point it gets sort of silly.

That issue of Titans shows how Dick becoming Batman was a disaster from a comic universe perspective since different writers had different ideas of what it would mean for Dick to take the cape and cowl. In his own series, Dick was unsure if he really SHOULD become Batman and at first only fought crime in the Batmobile so he didn’t have to step out as Nightwing and make it clear Batman was not around. And when he DID become Batman, he had to become a very different one to make it work, including letting cameras record him as well as changing the costume since it weighted a ton. He was never gonna let the cowl eat him up because he could never become THE Batman and instead became the new one. One who even had fun being a superhero.

No offence to Kori, but she can be a bit sensitive now and then. And I honestly can’t recall Batman interacting with her directly. Do recall when she first met him when the TT and Outsiders teamed up that she disliked how Bruce made Dick feel, but that is honestly on Dick. When Dick finally told Bruce he should lead the mission, Batman let him and complimented him on his amazing leadership skills. Bruce never liked Kory much, partly because of his role as Dick’s father and was worried she wasn’t good for Dick.

So, someone asked me what the original five Titans thinks of Batman.

I want you to keep in mind that DC characters’ relationship to Bats can change a lot, especially since so many writers want to include Bats in their comics. But this is what they think of him as far as I’m concerned.

I already talked plenty of Dick and Bruce. They have an unsteady but all in all good relationship. It took them some time to get there, but they respect and love each other.

There is not much to say about Donna and Garth. They know about Batman mostly from what Dick has told them, and since Dick has been spending a lot of time feeling less than warmly about his mentor, they don’t like him as such. Think of it as a you-messed-with-my-brother- dickhead sort of dislike.

Roy knows Batman a bit better than Garth and Donna since his mentor was friends with him. He sees him as that weird uncle he doesn’t want to hang out with. Even more so because he as a kid tried to shoot Bats with a suctioncup arrow for funsies when he had his back turned… and then Batman turned and grabbed the arrow. That’s what made Roy truly spooked by just being in the ame room as him. But he doesn’t dislike him as such, they even worked together once where he realized that he is way more sensitive than most give him credit for.

Wally is probably the most successful Titan as he was the first to join the JLA. Because of that, he has been Batman’s colleague for years. Not partner, not sidekick. Colleague. So he has a lot of respect for Bats and knows how to work with him, possibly better than Dick does since he is not as emotionally connected to him. Batman also sees Wally as a colleague and only ever once belittled him when they got in a argument about Captain Boomerang killing Tim Drake’s dad. Batman accused Wally of not keeping his enemies on check, but this was a statement when his “son” was hurting and he therefor also was hurting.

“In terms of threat assessment, you pick Batman”

So, someone asked me what the original five Titans thinks of Batman.

I want you to keep in mind that DC characters’ relationship to Bats can change a lot, especially since so many writers want to include Bats in their comics. But this is what they think of him as far as I’m concerned.

I already talked plenty of Dick and Bruce. They have an unsteady but all in all good relationship. It took them some time to get there, but they respect and love each other.

There is not much to say about Donna and Garth. They know about Batman mostly from what Dick has told them, and since Dick has been spending a lot of time feeling less than warmly about his mentor, they don’t like him as such. Think of it as a you-messed-with-my-brother- dickhead sort of dislike.

Roy knows Batman a bit better than Garth and Donna since his mentor was friends with him. He sees him as that weird uncle he doesn’t want to hang out with. Even more so because he as a kid tried to shoot Bats with a suctioncup arrow for funsies when he had his back turned… and then Batman turned and grabbed the arrow. That’s what made Roy truly spooked by just being in the ame room as him. But he doesn’t dislike him as such, they even worked together once where he realized that he is way more sensitive than most give him credit for.

Wally is probably the most successful Titan as he was the first to join the JLA. Because of that, he has been Batman’s colleague for years. Not partner, not sidekick. Colleague. So he has a lot of respect for Bats and knows how to work with him, possibly better than Dick does since he is not as emotionally connected to him. Batman also sees Wally as a colleague and only ever once belittled him when they got in a argument about Captain Boomerang killing Tim Drake’s dad. Batman accused Wally of not keeping his enemies on check, but this was a statement when his “son” was hurting and he therefor also was hurting.

They know some of the shit Bruce did to Dick. I know Kory at least didn’t like how Batman treated Dick and I know that Roy doesn’t like Bruce in at least one comic where Bruce and Roy team up but do you know how the others see Bruce? And do you know if it’s because they just don’t like Bruce or because they don’t like how Bruce is to Dick? (Sorry if you already answered this but I couldn’t find it if you did)