Eneslobby

I wish #arcane critical people would watch this video

I love caitvi so much🥰🥰🥰

We do not see Caitlyn targeting women and children. But we DELIBERATELY see that what Jinx did affected women and children in Piltover.

Why is Jinx hurting innocent women and children okay just because they’re in Piltover? Not all people who live in Piltover are oppressors. And especially not the innocent civilians who just happen to live there because that’s where they were born.

Like… this is one of the main messages of Avatar: The Last Airbender. A 20 year old KIDS cartoon on Nickelodeon. The show REPEATEDLY goes out of its way to remind the viewers that while the Fire Nation is bad, even the people who live in the Fire Nation deserve respect and empathy.

The point is that at this moment it's solely about caitlyn vs jinx. Both representing two factions.

The first problem with the grey stuff is that jinx's action was definitely portrayed as terrible by the show. Meanwhile caitlyn's action was constantly downplayed by the "only gassing criminals" and "pinpoint targeted" bullshit. Gas is gas. Just because the show refused to show how it affects civilians (like how they deliberately removed that scene where people were coughing when entering firelight hideout) doesn't mean it logically wouldn't happen. There is also vi's "we used the grey to clear the street" dialogue.

In my other post I also mentioned how given the map of the vent, caitlyn is blocking and poisoning Zaun's entire ventilation system. While what Jinx did was tit-for-tat. You hurt me, I hurt you back, her action also cleanse the vent (again, given the map. That part is honestly a bit confusing).

Second, caitlyn weaponize the grey first. It is an act of oppression. Jinx only shot the grey back once it was weaponized in the first place. Thus this is an act of retaliation. (For herself or for zaun it doesn't matter).

I'm not saying the piltovian deserved to be gassed but we're talking systems here. When we're talking individual OBVIOUSLY no one deserved to be gassed. No, not even the chembaron.

Caitlyn in the jail scene is equating both their crimes which is wrong because one, the grey that has gone out of the vent is going to stay there for god knows how long while the grey in piltover is a one shot and it'll dissipate to open air. Not saying it won't linger for long, but definitely shorter than in zaun. Two, Caitlyn did it to people whom she's very aware of don't even have real doctor, at least piltovians would be able to go get treatment. Maybe not all of them but there is a chance. What the fuck is zaunite supposed to do other than pray it doesn't kill them? Zaunites are oppressed group and caitlyn knows it yet she still gassed them that's why her doing is an act of oppression (hell even that vent, the kirammans holding Zaun air hostage is an act of oppression). Third, Caitlyn did it FIRST. This is the keypoint here. This is why what Jinx did is an act of retaliation.

If you’re going to analyze this series seriously you’re going to have to give up on some really bad misconceptions.

For example: Zaun has doctors. This idea that they don’t is really stupid. The potions maker is literally in the lowest deepest drug filled slums that Zaunites themselves don’t bother visiting. The potions maker is also giving them shimmer, which isn’t a good thing. Huck says doctors are hard to come by there because it’s a deep isolated shimmer filled slum.

Additionally, you need to give up this idea that Caitlyn gassed all,of Zaun. Forget about how gas works, this isn’t reality. We are shown Caitlyn using the vents to re-route the gas and target the chem barons and that’s it. Stop exaggerating her crimes.

You are holding on to confirmation biases certain fans have concocted and that is clouding your ability to judge the show honestly.

You wanna talk about systems? Cool. Jinx’s actions at the end of season 1 wasn’t part of any systems. Silco was dead. Vi was there. Piltover was preparing to vote for independence. Jinx had no reason to bomb the council building, but she did it anyway out of spite and hatred.

An eye for an eye isn’t justice nor is it right. That is the literal definition of a cycle of violence. Jinx had an opportunity to stop it, and she made it worse. Everything else that happened after that moment is because of her choice.

"Forget how gas works, this isn't reality" <- I will do that once the sharpenels from Jinx's bomb starts deccelerating when the bomb explodes or when the ceiling that broke from powder's bomb starts floating instead of falling, When Jinx and warwick fell upwards in the finale, When fishbones bounced off the council tower's window, Or even better, when Jinx did not start coughing before the visual of grey enters the arcade. This isn't even hextech where you can excuse it as magic. So no. I will not ignore basic physics beyond my suspension of disbelief. I will not insult my brain.

Piltover was voting for "councilor Talis' proposal for peace" this proposal is the deal he made with Silco. The deal includes Jinx, an individual, to be served as a pound of meat for Piltover. Even so silco wouldn't give up Jinx. So the meeting was useless because Silco wouldn't give his part of the deal anyways.

And like it or not Jinx is a part of a system. All of the characters are. Remember what Vi said to jayce, "you have always been a part of this. You just never have to look at it in the eyes." While she was behaving on the behalf of herself, her action was to the system and the reason why she was angry was because of whaf the system has done to her. And the system (Piltover) enacted violence against Zaun as a whole which is another system. So Jinx was part of the system in Zaun. She's a Zaunite. A Zaunite who happen to grew up stronger than her abuser and in return hunt them back. I've written another post about it if you bother to read.

I never said an eye for an eye is justice. I literally wrote tit for tat to balance the fact that Jinx's actions were not fully because she wants better for her community but there is also sense of revenge there.

Talking about terrorizing, what about enforcers who has been terrorizing the entire Zaun for years? The biggest act of terrorism is literally the oppression.

Jinx was retaliating against her oppressor is true on the grey case whether it is for herself or for other Zaunites. Other Zaunites wanted to retaliate too, seen from how Jinx's action inspired the Jinxers or looking at S1, there are Silco, Vander's kid, Sevika and others, Ekko, the dead protester on the very beginning of the series. There is lot of reason why Zaunites didn't retaliate before Jinx but it was clear that jinnx was the only one who was strong enough to pull off something like that alone like in S1 or in two men band with sevika. Violence against Zaun has been happening since the beginning of the show. Piltover has been hurting Zaun for years even before the story started. If your day to day Piltovian need to protest about the grey then they should protest to the person who released the grey from its chamber in the first place. Again the vent itself was filled with gas. Do the piltovian kids deserved it? no. But neither does the Zaunite kids. And since I refused to insult my brain, my opinion stand. The effect of grey in Zaun was worse than in Piltover.

The problem with the grey plotline is that the use of it as of how it is in the show was very on the black spectrum of gray. Caitlyn could have done anything else other than releasing gas weapon (which was also made and kept as result of oppression btw). What was the use of the gas specifically anyways? If it works like how caitlyn apologist likes to potray it that is like tear gas, If they're trying to catch "criminals" throwing gas tears was certainly only going to make them run away. It's not very effective. Gas irl is mostly for crowd control. Another possible use is the one that Vi said, "to clear the street" so like... civilians then? You clear the street from civilians by shooting grey towards them so that in case casualty escalated, civilians wouldn't be in the line of shot?

I have stated my opinion about shimmer before, not in this post. You would know because you were arguing with me. Or maybe you don't actually fully read my post. That's fine too. Shimmer is addictive, yes, but it has medical properties. It's basically like narcotics.

Let me clarify. Real world logic applies until proven otherwise.

"Readers understand fictional worlds and their components by drawing on background knowledge of their own world, unless otherwise indicated."

The principle of minimal departure (MD) — Marie-Laure Ryan

We assume both part of the cities has proper medical care until proven otherwise. The difference between Piltover and Zaun is that they did show "doctors" in Zaun and in all of those instances, none of the "doctors" are traditionally properly medically equipped so the real world assumption that Zaun have proper medical care has been successfully proven wrong. Piltover meanwhile has not shown their medical care system. So the default assumption stand.

The same with physics. I will believe gravity exist in Arcane until the show stated how gravitation works differently or exist at all. Thus I will believe gas spread until proven otherwise. And in this case, it has in fact, proven likewise. In the arcade, Jinx starts coughing before the grey entered the room.

LOL ‘when Jinx was gravely wounded where did Silco take her? To Singed.” THAT’S your logic for “Zaun has no doctors?” He took her to Singed because Singed is an amoral freak who has a history of keeping dead things alive. Not because there weren’t any doctors in Zaun. Not even the potion’s maker could’ve cured what happened to Jinx. Silco needs a miracle not a doctor. Wtf? That’s the most absurdist logic I’ve ever heard.

I agree that shimmer is narcotics, but to leap from that to saying Zaun doesn’t have doctors and then proposing that shimmer is their only form of medicine is absolutely BUCK WILD. You think Doctors didn’t exist before Shimmer came about? You think when people were injured in the mines nobody tended to them or helped them? You think a city where air pollution is a thing didn’t have doctors or people who cared about curing illnesses UNTIL Silco and Singed invented Shimmer??? Your “principals of minimal departure” works that way too, dumbass.

And alright you wanna get into the gas thing? Fine. The grey is denser air than normal. Ekko says as much in S1E8 to Heimerdinger. “The air is denser in the fissures.” So the grey doesn’t behave the way normal gas does because the air in the fissures is intrinsically different. When we see it filling up the arcade, Jinx leaves the arcade and there’s no grey outside or leaking out of the building. When we see Jinx tie up the Hinox guy over a grey vent in S2E3, the grey is dissipating low to the ground and not filling the room. When the chem barons roll up to the grey filled building in S2E2 you can see the grey leaking out, but not traveling far from the entrances at all. It stays contained within the immediate vicinity of the building, which is not how normal gas works. There are many visual instances where the show shows that the grey behaves differently than normal gas and air.

to be exact, he said, "Not so simple to come by around here."

to me this reads more like oh doctors are difficult in Zaun. Difficult can means scarcity (rare but not obsolete which is fair), but it can also means complications (e.g., illegal, expensive, or unreliable). but sure, doctors does exist. i don't think it means they just "not go down to the slum" like you suggested though. however then my point will shift to medical care is hard in Zaun.

I said "effective medicine". the fact that shimmer quickly take over in medical aspect of Zaun is a proof of its effectiveness compared to other medicine available in Zaun.

"You think a city where air pollution is a thing didn’t have doctors or people who cared about curing illnesses UNTIL Silco and Singed invented Shimmer???" <- this is similar to Penicilin.

"Before its introduction there was no effective treatment for infections such as pneumonia, gonorrhea or rheumatic fever. Hospitals were full of people with blood poisoning contracted from a cut or a scratch, and doctors could do little for them but wait and hope."

The discovery and development of penicillin 1928-1945

so yeah, people just kind of miserable without proper medicine. It is something that happened in real life.

Grey is pollutant. it's not magic gas. it's dense, but not magic. and gas filled up the space. this is the rule.

"The molecules are in constant, random motion and frequently collide with each other and with the walls of a container. Because the molecules are in motion, a gas will expand to fill the container. Since density is defined to be the mass divided by the volume, density depends directly on the size of the container in which a fixed mass of gas is confined."

Gas Density, National Aeronautics and Space Administration

The density of a gas increases as temperatures get colder. So, because temperatures decrease as we reach higher altitudes, gases become denser at higher altitudes. Denser objects tend to sink, pulled down by gravity.

You Asked: How Does Carbon Dioxide Get So High Up Into the Atmosphere? - Charlotte Munson

Dense objects tends to sink, yes. however it does not mean the gas won't dissipate overtime. the higher the altitude the cooler the temperature thus some of the grey in Piltover would sink back down (some possibly going back to Zaun) the lower the altitude, the higher the temperature thus energy spreads quicker. Because of this, the gas will be less dense overtime. and will eventually dissipate into the atmosphere. the already dense and polluted air in Zaun would slow it down (and in contrast it'll dissipate faster in normal air however again piltover have open air) but the lower altitude will speed up the process. The grey was also shot by smoker machine. the kinetic energy would help it dissipate faster. as you can see from margot's place, it was already filling up the space. (although the same kinetic energy would be applied to jinx's attack). The point is that IT WILL spread.

besides, what was Vi's talking about in S2E3? "we used the grey to clear the street, to keep people safe?" as i said i assumed she means crowd control. Or maybe she meant cleaning street from shimmer?

As time passed after the ending of arcane I've come to realise that labelling Caitlyn Kiramman as a "dictator" is plain wrong and it heavily mischaracterizes her as a person who was so clearly manipulated by a woman in power.

Arcane writers have done everything they can to explain to the fandom that the gas was mostly used on chembarons and their goons. Obviously other people were caught in the crossfire and got poisoned from the gray, but this is nowhere near what the nazis were doing. And it is also NOT a valid reason to call her "KKKiramman"

1) "I thought, maybe you could love me like you used to, even though I'm different".

She accuses Vi of not loving/accepting her as she is. This is already an absurd expectation, because first, Vi has no obligation to "accept her as she is" when she is doing all the horrible things that she does, and second, Vi actually does love her despite all her mistakes, it's Jinx herself who refuses Vi's offer to leave and start anew.

But it's also a completely hypocritical accusation: she wants Vi to accept her as she is, but she doesn't accept Vi as she is. Vi is a person who is not willing to murder innocents and also someone who cares about Caitlyn. But Jinx doesn't accept that about her sister. She wants Vi to change for her, she wants Vi to become a murderer and kill Caitlyn to prove her love for her, and when Vi refuses, she rejects Vi. So Jinx herself doesn't accept Vi as she is.

2) "Poisoning our air"

This is incredibly hypocritical coming from a person who spent years helping to poison the people of Zaun with shimmer, a drug that devastated Zaun. Vi and Caitlyn's use of the Grey at least was targeted against the chem-barons (the very people that were poisoning Zaun with Shimmer and that Jinx spent years helping), and the Grey is also not shown to be lethal. Silco spreading shimmer, on the other hand, was not targeted. He didn't sell shimmer in a controlled manner for its healing properties, he sold it in a widespread manner, getting people addicted, debilitated, and turning them into monsters that attack other people. And Jinx helped Silco do it. What she did is much worse than what Vi did, but apparently it's ok for Jinx to poison her own people.** (And that's not even mentioning all the other bad things against Zaun that Jinx helped happen by working with Silco, like the child slave labor, the killing of the Firelights and all other of Silco's crimes)

3) "Wish I was seeing things when you decided to throw in with the Piltie goons who murdered mom and dad"

Again, so hypocritical. Yes, Vi joined the enforcers. But she joined a team with an enforcer that she trusted (Caitlyn), and she didn't join anyone directly responsible for their parent's deaths. Jinx, on the other hand, actually joined the man directly responsible for the deaths of their adoptive family.** Not to mention that Jinx's actions are the main reason Vi joined the enforcers in the first place.

**By the way, I know that Jinx was a kid when she was taken in by Silco. But as an adult, we never see Jinx express remorse for working with him. On the contrary, we see her grieve him, smell his jacket and only ever think fondly of him, never criticizing him for his role in destroying Zaun. And while she was a kid when she was taken in, she continues helping him as an adult, she continues doing it even after Vi comes back and tries to help her, and it's also implied that Ekko tried to help her in the past and she refused (or if he didn't try, she still could have tried to ask for his help, she had somewhere else to go other than staying with Silco). She could have left Silco as an adult but didn't. As Ekko said, she works for Silco not because she needs to, but because she wants to, and she constantly seeks Silco's validation. So while I can understand that Jinx was a vulnerable kid that was manipulated by Silco, I still think that if she's going to make these accusations against Vi without ever self-reflecting about her own role in helping Silco oppress Zaun, then it's fair to call out her hypocrisy.

4) "Wake up, sis. I'm a hero. I busted half of Zaun out of Stillwater while you were passed out in the bottom of a mug."

First of all, it's incredibly insensitive for her to throw Stillwater in Vi's face, considering that she knows Vi spent 7 years there, and it's really cruel to mock Vi for being "passed out in the bottom of a mug" considering that part of the reason Vi has been spiraling and drinking were Jinx's own actions. Jinx is part of the reason why Vi has been getting wasted like this.

But it's also hypocritical, because she is accusing Vi of doing nothing while Zaun is suffering, even though Jinx herself was also doing nothing. She was hiding with Isha and would not have helped anyone if Isha hadn't been taken. Not to mention that her own terrorist attacks are the very reason Zaun is being occupied, and Vi helped Zaun way more than Jinx ever did.