emma

Inspired by Somie's comic, though there's another idea I wanted to explore.

I’ve been thinking about the weird route and how it feels lately. About how it feels very different from Undertale genocide. That doesn’t surprise me per se, since I think Toby is going for something different this time. I think I’m interested that it feels so different because it, superficially, has a lot of the pageantry of geno. It shares many of the same themes, but does different things with them.

It is about getting stronger.

It skips the funnies (no Berdly, why even live 😭).

It leans into the abuse of meta elements. Using the text box to teleport is my favorite example from Deltarune. My favorite example from Undertale is literally pushing the battle box in the sans fight to access the FIGHT button.

What’s interesting to me is that despite sharing these similarities, it feels completely different. A heavy theme of the Undertale Genocide run is dissociation. In order to embark on the genocide run, you have to shatter your suspension of disbelief. The systemic mechanical slaughter of the characters you once had genuine attachment to is symbolic of you discarding any hold the game has on you. In order to do a genocide run, you have to discard the game. It’s why Chara calls you out in the end if you choose to go back. They cannot understand why someone would do what you do if you still felt attachment to the world after all. Why do all this if you still care? You must have a perverse sentimentality.

Undertale Genocide is about what it means to feel attached to characters. It’s about whether it’s worth it to discard that attachment if it means you can see more of them. Is it worth it to mutilate a story into a shape you no longer can love as long as you don’t have to let it go? I had… let’s say, a strong emotional response to Undertale Geno (I called my best friend at the time an evil asshole for playing it, sorry Widget). But, eventually, I played it too. I learned a lot about myself through thinking about my emotional response to Undertale Geno. I realized that I’m actually okay with letting something go while I still love it. It’s helped me process a lot of things.

I’m currently in the throes of feelings about the weird route. Obviously we don’t know exactly what the thematic endpoint of Deltarune is yet, but I’ve seen enough of the weird route already to highlight some throughlines. I think the main difference, and why the weird route makes me viscerally ill, lies in the emotional closeness. Ultimately, Undertale Geno is about the sacrifice of emotional closeness for the sake of remaining in the world. Deltarune, however, is emotionally distant from the get-go.

There is a greater degree of separation between you and Kris than there ever was between you and Frisk. Frisk, while their own person, makes very little attempt to resist your commands. They are wholly on board for murder, as far as we can tell. The only actions they take of their own accord on that run are to further the aims of it. Stepping forward during cutscenes, skipping puzzles. Kris, however, opposes us throughout all of Deltarune. They set (honestly reasonable) boundaries with us, refusing to allow us to take things they deem too important. I feel distanced from the story because of Kris’ clear acknowledgement of our existence and their own preferences. There is a line drawn by their actions that we cannot cross. Kris serves as the eyes, ears, hands and mouth through which we interface with the world, but they use their role as a cage to limit our reach. It’s a testament to Toby Fox’s writing and game design that this still feels immersive. I am still drawn in even as I’m made to feel like an outsider. Hell, I want to be drawn even further in. I want to be friends with Susie and Kris and Noelle and Ralsei. I crave the emotional closeness that I cannot have. This exactly mirrors how Kris feels in hometown: like an outsider that craves attention and connection but is unable to realize those things. The emotional distance is a part of the narrative.

The story seems to already be heading towards tackling this emotional distance in the normal route by heavily discussing the irreality of certain characters (Ralsei mostly, but other Darkners too). Lightners entering dark worlds somewhat heavy-handedly lampshades the real-life interface between two narrative layers that occurs when you interact with a story. The fact that Darkners don’t consider themselves real (and Susie’s firm rejection of that) is a criticism of the notion that just because things don’t have physical form doesn’t mean they can’t affect you like any supposedly more “real” thing can. I think both routes in Deltarune will lead to resolving the emotional distance of the player, but in either a healthy or an unhealthy way depending on the route.

There is a reason the weird route fixates so heavily on Noelle. The relationship she has with Kris is complicated. They’ve been friends for a long time, but Kris has withdrawn into themselves recently. Their connection has floundered and they’ve grown distant. This interpersonal distance is similar to the intrinsic separation we, the player, must feel from the characters in Deltarune. We think we know them, but there’s a disconnect in communication that is mostly bridged through Kris’s creative interpretation of our commands. Could we really consider ourselves friends with Susie without Kris’s silly little goofs? The little flairs of personality they tac onto the membrane of our interaction? It feels… both resonant and saddening to know that Susie doesn’t really like US, they like Kris. We’re just kinda forcing Kris to put themselves out there. We’re forcing Kris to expose themselves to intimacy in a way they never would have on their own.

There’s a selfish part of me that wishes for a blank slate, that wishes I COULD be closer to these characters I love. And… well… Kris CAN be made blank. You can force that emotional closeness if you really want. You can force Noelle to become “friends” with “Kris” again. The weird route is about our refusal to accept a lack of intimacy and our refusal to respect boundaries. Both with us, the player, and with Kris’s friend Noelle. Kris pushes everyone in their life away. They’re traumatized from the disappearance of Dess, they feel dysmorphic due to being the only human in a family and town of monsters, they’re queer and weird and don’t relate to anyone they know (me too thanks), and their parents are so divorced it gave a TV separation anxiety. While the abuse of Noelle does make me feel wretched, it is the erasure of Kris that really gets to me the most. God, the little crumbs we get of their mental state in chapter 4 weird route after Noelle’s house… it’s heartbreaking. Poor kid.

This is why I think the end of the weird route will be us “killing” Kris, or taking absolute control over their body. What greater violation is there than annihilating someone’s personhood? Hell, we’re already doing it. It’s also why I think the end of the normal route will be with Kris and us reconciling our conflict. Coming to a healthy mutual understanding of each others’ boundaries and limits. Or at least arriving at a somewhat less adversarial relationship. Sure we keep making them do stuff they don’t want to do, but they keep ripping us out and shoving us in a cage or beating us with hockey equipment. We’re stuck together, we’re gonna have to figure out how to make this work. I think as we come to understand Kris as their own person, they’ll come around to us too. If chapter 7 ends with Kris playing piano for us in the final rendition of Don’t Forget I’m going to actually sob.

How I read the actual feelings & relationships of Kris, Noelle, and Susie (+ what I think endgame might be).

First of all, before we get started, I just want to make it clear that I don't intend this as "ship discourse", but rather as textual analysis. I don't care what anyone ships. I don't think there's a "right" ship. That's not what this is about. Relationships and romance are important to the overall plot and themes of Deltarune, and my analysis here is meant to be about that. I'm not bashing anyone for what they like and I don't want to see anyone using this post for that purpose, either.

So, then, my overall thinking that I'll be diving into over the course of this post. Personally, based on the evidence presented by the text, I think that:

Kris is in love with Susie and has been since before the beginning of the game.

Noelle is in love with Susie and has been since before the beginning of the game.

Both Kris and Noelle have some extra baggage and unconscious reasonings for their feelings for Susie.

Susie's feelings for Noelle are not developed naturally. Though their chemistry is undeniable, her feelings for Noelle may or may not be entirely genuine.

Susie has feelings for Kris that she is unaware of.

Kris and Noelle used to have romantic feelings for each other that have fizzled out and they no longer really want to fulfill, but are mixed up in their nostalgia for their shared childhood and relationship, colouring their desire to be friends again.

I'll also talk a bit about their dynamic (or lack thereof) as a group & writing intention from Toby, as well as a few points of counter-evidence to my conclusion.

Now, why is all this important to the narrative of the game? Because we don't expect the silent, self-insert protagonist to have specific feelings for someone separate from our decisions, just like we don't expect them to act on their own and have their own agenda separate from ours. We expect either no romance or the ability to romance whoever we please.

So, let's go through each point in order.

1. Kris' feelings for Susie

I don't think I need to convince anyone that Kris is crushing on Susie at this point, but I'll talk a little bit about it anyway. There's evidence to suggest that Kris has feelings for her before the game even starts: they don't protest her bullying at all (evidence from both in-game and Noelle's blog posts), they have 0 issue being her very close friend despite being her victim, and some of their Ch1 interactions are very mildly flirtatious. Things like taking the "People put their mouth on that" line (implying that Susie does this herself) as encouragement to drink more from the water fountain, complimenting her hair in the fight with her and Lancer, and even how the "flirt" ACT goes down when you tell Susie to do it. They're small things, but when paired with the evidence that's been built with every subsequent chapter, it's solid enough to imply that Kris has felt like this for a long time.

2. Noelle's feelings for Susie.

Likewise, I don't think I need to explain that Noelle has a giant crush on Susie and has the entire time.

3. The extra baggage

This is something that I think is very similar for Noelle and Kris, but affects them differently.

Both of them are projecting a certain meanness and toughness onto Susie at the start of the game. This makes sense given the persona she puts on. We see numerous examples of Noelle fantasizing about Susie hurting her in some way: shoving her to the ground and making fun of her, slamming her against lockers, things like that. This goes beyond the typical fantasies we see in fiction of the "bad girl/boy" type where there's a sense of danger, but ultimately it's not fulfilled. Noelle fantasizes about being legitimately hurt.

Kris likely has similar feelings to her of wanting pain. Unlike Noelle, they were actually being hurt by Susie, yet they have feelings for her anyway. We already know that Kris likely has strong self-worth issues, and this is probably a manifestation of that. They believe they deserve it, and Susie hurting them only reinforces that. We are also led to believe that Kris knows the Prophecy already; they may be projecting that onto Susie as well, depending on what specifically is written in it, and anticipating Susie hurting them (and wanting it).

Where I think this differs is in how these fantasies affect them and their respective relationships with Susie. For Kris, this side fizzles out as they get closer to her and she gives them a sense of belonging and self-worth, something they're severely lacking. She becomes their favourite person, the source of their happiness. From that point on, they stop wanting Susie to hurt them (though they are still accepting of it) and instead are torn between their desire to make Susie happy even at a cost to themself and their desire to receive all her affection and validation, which they so deeply crave.

Noelle, on the other hand, I think would remain plagued by these fantasies without really recognizing what they mean. While a very large part of Noelle doesn't want to be hurt by Susie and is falling hard and fast for this genuine sweet side to her (something that is also part of her fantasies, let's remember — she says that she thought it would take the "right person" to draw out her good side), there is also a part of her that wants Susie to hurt her. Ch5 WR shows us explicitly that Noelle struggles with dissociation and passive suicidal ideation. We also see throughout Ch2 WR that she tends to blame herself rather than what's being done to her. In all routes, we see that she is sheltered by her parents (namely her dad) and protected. We also learn that Dess' room remains exactly the same, implying that the family (or at least Carol) refuses to accept that she's gone. There is a distinct lack of acknowledgement of pain. For someone like Noelle, where the safety and monotony of everyday life is oppressive, pain can be an outlet for release. Various forms of rebellions can be, too — maybe you can't give in to that desire to run away and start a new life under a new name, but you can dye your hair. For Noelle, who's scared to even go that far, her fantasies become her outlet, with Susie — a person who embodies everything she craves — at the heart of that.

Unlike Kris, who finds a purpose for living in Susie, Noelle finds freedom. The freedom to act how she wants, dress how she wants, do what she wants, no matter what the consequences are. Confessing her desire to run away despite the fact that she must know it would destroy her parents after her sister disappeared; hanging up on and yelling at her mom; wringing Berdly's neck for having a crush on Susie, too. It's great to see her develop confidence and talk back, but we've seen just how easily that can get out of hand in the WR.

This type of self-destructive behaviour doesn't cease because of a relationship. It wouldn't cease for Kris, either, but it manifests differently. For Kris, this looks like harming themself in secret and not communicating properly; for Noelle, this would likely look like using Susie to act out in ways she wouldn't on her own & eventually asking Susie to hurt her. Neither of these are things that Susie would be okay with and I do believe that both are things that the respective pairs could work on and heal over time.

4. Susie's feelings for Noelle are not developed naturally and may not be genuine

This one, I think, is the one that's gonna get the most flack from people, but I think there's a really solid amount of evidence for it.

First of all, let's consider Susie's situation. Susie is someone who hasn't really had friends and certainly nothing close to a romantic relationship before. She has a hard time even believing someone could have a crush on her in the first place, despite all signs pointing to that conclusion. Something that's really common for people who've grown up like that to do is that when someone expresses romantic interest in them, they automatically reciprocate, even if they didn't have any feelings to begin with. Now, this is a fully unconscious process and doesn't really happen with people you dislike. But people you're generally a bit positive towards? Absolutely. The idea that someone, that anyone could like you like that is so miraculous that it's reason enough to like them back. It's not always lying to yourself or tricking yourself into believing you actually like them, either; instead, you're attracted to the fact that they like you. Sometimes (oftentimes), just that isn't enough to sustain a relationship and it collapses within a few months. Sometimes, less commonly, it works out and you have genuine chemistry and work well. But either way, at the beginning, the feelings you have are not developed naturally.

This is what Susie experiences. Susie has generally positive feelings towards Noelle from the get-go. We know this to be true. She believes Noelle is a good, kind person who is well-liked for a good reason. But does she have a crush on her? I doubt it.

Susie never brings her up even once in Ch1.

She's not nervous when Noelle interrupts her and Kris from entering the Dark World, at least not in a romantic way. We know what a blushy, nervous, romantic-coded Susie looks like; there's absolutely none of that on display here. She emphasizes that the Dark World is their thing that they need to keep separate from her, is baffled by the lunchbox full of chalk, and is completely clueless to the very obvious signs that Noelle has a crush on her. There's no hopeful "do you think...? nah, definitely not", no blushing, no nothing. That's not the behaviour of someone with a crush.

She doesn't want Noelle to join their group and finds it weird that Noelle places herself immediately behind her. She allows Noelle to join out of concern for her safety, but she doesn't want her to be part of the group. This is very likely because of her fear that someone butting in on the group, this very special thing she's just gotten for the first time in her life, will mean she loses it. She doesn't try to make an effort to include Noelle in other things separate from this, either. Again, not the behaviour of someone with a crush.

After this point, she starts getting slammed so hard so often with the very obvious neon sign of "Noelle has a crush on Susie" that she starts to clue in, and that changes her behaviour. Noelle having a statue of her in her room, the framing of her rescuing Noelle like a hero and their princess, the ferris wheel with heart-shaped carriages, Noelle's general behaviour around her... they add up. Even someone who generally believes that no one would ever like them like that will start to connect the dots. At this point, Susie's connecting them, but she doesn't allow herself to fully believe the evidence yet. Still, it gets her thinking about it; we can see this in how she acts in the ferris wheel with Noelle and later how she talks to Rudy about her.

There's a bit of extra evidence in later chapters to support this, too. We go all of Ch3 without Susie mentioning Noelle once. In Ch4, we see her knowingly use Noelle's crush on her to get access to her house to search for clues. I don't think a lot of people recognize that that's what happened, but it is. She made a connection to Carol, recognized that Noelle wouldn't turn her down, "flirted" with her (in a very Susie style without any nervousness, unlike how she acts later), and omitted Kris' presence when asking herself over, framing it as a one-on-one thing. The moment she knows she's succeeded, all focus on Noelle is lost and she immediately turns around to high-five Kris. This isn't what someone does when they have a crush on someone, and we know it's not what Susie does when she has a crush. Then in Ch5, we get this against an enemy Floradinn:

(original from @/elytam_ on twitter)

"So far, all I know is that someone... someone's, just gotta like you first."

Susie's idea of love is that someone has to like you first. This, paired with the quick development of her and Noelle's relationship, definitely has some implications about her feelings. She even goes as far as to question whether she's even capable of love later in the chapter when talking with Blue. She has a hard time making sense of her feelings; she tells Kris in the onsen that she was already so excited about being Noelle's friend that progressing this much is a lot for her.

Chapters 2, 4, and 5 are the only ones where we get development of this relationship. In 2 and 4, this only happens when there is a prompt for Susie. Here's a couple bits from another analysis post I made that I think are particularly relevant:

first of all, what i mean by narrative in this case. the narrative that i am referring to here is essentially the prophecy, but goes beyond that to an extent. this is what in-universe Gaster has written out and planned for the characters, including you. there are things that happen in the game that go outside of that narrative, or may go outside of them — any time Ralsei says “that’s not supposed to happen”, that’s an example of something that has occurred that goes outside the narrative that Gaster has, in universe, constructed for “his” game. another example may be the secret bosses. another might be Kris’ actions that they take independently of us. this narrative is separate from Toby’s. when i say narrative in this analysis, i am talking about Gaster’s specifically.

...suselle stuff happens whether you push for it or not as the player. it’s an inevitability. trying to discourage Noelle from Susie only makes her like her more; discouraging or encouraging Susie in chapter 5 has no bearing on her actions or feelings towards Noelle. actions taken that aren’t even related to the two of them end up forcing them closer, like the SOUL strumming on the guitar to get their attention or moving to scare them in the basement (smth that’s required to keep progressing through the game) leading to the two of them getting closer. your choices — Kris’ choices, for that matter — don’t matter. this was always going to happen. this is the narrative. Gaster’s narrative. Gaster’s narrative (again, separate from Toby’s) intends to make the player root for suselle. and it’s easy to see why! they’re a beloved trope of butchfemme rough/nerd. the shy introvert girl with a strict parent secretly likes like big, strong bad girl. the bad girl secretly has a soft side and a heart of gold. it’s peak romcom material. if everything works out (and it so easily could), they’ll live happily ever after and it’ll be a wonderful, sweet ending that melts the player’s heart.

Susie's feelings develop only when pushed to by the narrative. She is forced into situations by it that make her contend with the possibility of romance between them. Ch4's Dark World is actually a great example of this: Susie doesn't bring up Noelle until the second sanctuary when the Prophecy talks about "love finds the girl". She's not on her mind at all until that moment. She has other shit to deal with. Until Ch5 (and arguably even at the beginning of Ch5 until the Dark World), Susie only thinks about Noelle and considers any sort of romantic anything with her when prompted to by the narrative. A giant ferris wheel that suddenly appears, a prophecy, a sound from the basement that has to happen for the game to progress; these aren't natural developments.

Does this mean I think Susie and Noelle couldn't work out? No, not at all. They have genuine chemistry and I think if they worked at it, they could have a very successful relationship. But how Susie's feelings develop is something worth keeping in mind.

But let's talk about Susie's feelings for Kris.

5. Susie has romantic feelings for Kris that she is unaware of

I've already talked about what we know Susie to look like when she's romantically flustered. Regardless of the development of her feelings for Noelle, we get to see how she acts. But we also get to see how she acts many times with Kris.

Susie consistently gets flustered when Kris behaves in ways that could be conceived as romantic with her. The Ch3 sword route scene is a big example; another is at the end of Ch2 if you say you would take Susie to the festival. But these aren't outliers. She does this a lot with Kris. You know who she doesn't do this with? Ralsei.

Ralsei is actually a really good character to juxtapose here because she also makes Susie flustered, but it's visibly different. When Ralsei makes Susie flustered, it's usually in response to her being openly affectionate and Susie not knowing how to handle it, so she squashes her or throws her into the air or shakes her off. She's flustered, but not blushy. She also throws on her "I'm tough" persona when responding to Ralsei, but in these moments with Kris, she's more prone to pretending like she doesn't care that much when secretly she does; these aren't exclusive reactions to these types of scenarios, but rather common usage. Like, how often do we see her using these talk sprites when interacting with Kris?

On top of that, in Ch5 WR (where that 'narrative' I was talking about isn't influencing her nearly as much), a lot of her interactions with Kris at the festival are romantically coded. The fact that she wants to see specifically Kris' reactions to everything; her dialogue outside Noelle's house gates ("Whatever we are is cooler, right?"); the lines about going to college when interacting with Temmie's art; when interacting with the giant teacups, she specifies "now that Noelle's not here" for her idea; talking about how Noelle rested her head on her shoulder in the ferris wheel and then specifically getting Kris to sit next to her; shaking the ferris wheel to cheer them up, something Kris did to Noelle as kids. Even on NR, she struggles to include Noelle when talking about the diner if you try to include her and really hammers home the idea that it's just something for her and Kris if you don't.

Then there's the Dark World, which has less but arguably more impactful dialogue. When talking to her at the onsen, her dialogue is "I guess I just... I already... I was already... just excited, to be her friend. ...being more than that... I want to, I'm just... Kris, did you ever... like anybody?"

I want us to remember that Susie with Kris is very brazen. She rarely gets embarrassed about any of her weird behaviours because Kris matches her perfectly. This is a sensitive topic for sure, but probably not much more than other delicate discussions they've had that she's reacted differently to. This moment is implying that she's scared of their answer, and especially so when we consider the kinds of tropes this chapter is pulling from.

This is also the scene where she expresses that she used to think Kris and Noelle were a thing and that she was jealous. It's worth noting that she doesn't specify who she was jealous of. With this in mind, let's think back to Chapters 1 & 2: we already talked about how Susie clearly doesn't express any crush on Noelle during those chapters until she's forced to contend with the idea that Noelle might like her. But Kris?

In Chapter 1, Susie continuously tries to get Kris to join her and Lancer's side despite her apparent dislike of them. She offers to have Lancer cut cool holes in their clothes, get fanned by Rudinns... For someone who's supposed to be bullying them, she sure does make a point to try and include them. She believes their compliment about liking her hair and is initially flattered by it. When discussing that she'll start ACTing in the elevator, she holds specifically Kris back and says she's counting on them. Kris is the first of the two that she names as her friend. By the end of the chapter, Kris, someone she supposedly hated, has become her best friend.

The instances we see of these two bonding aren't narratively forced. Many of them are optional. I noted in my other post another thing, too: that a large number of the big Kris/Susie moments we've gotten throughout the chapters occur after the player has tried to get between them. Some examples I provided were:

At the end of Ch2, when Susie asks who Kris would take to the festival. The one choice that makes it obvious who Kris would want to take is to say nothing (ie, preventing any romance); saying Susie is easily passed off as friends, and choosing otherwise just makes them confused.

In Ch3 at the end of the sword route, the player has to attack Susie to get the scene.

In Ch3 before the Cold Place, if you choose to talk to Susie instead of Ralsei, you have to choose the seemingly mean option of "Sucks to be you" in order to get her response of "Man. We could've been friends way sooner, huh?" This is the dialogue choice that is the most memorable and gets the longest response from her.

In Ch5, if you talk to her instead of Ralsei at the onsen, choosing "Noelle and you will work out" causes Kris to mumble the words and leads to further dialogue choices that reinforce their feelings. Choosing "You should carry me next" is instead not taken seriously and doesn't lead to expanded dialogue.

There are more examples than this, but these are ones that are well-known (and that I can recall quickly). Moments like these, coupled with the fact that a very large amount of them are optional, prove that Susie's feelings for Kris develop entirely on their own with no needed push from the narrative. Even when you try to get between them, she and Kris still bond, often even more so. These feelings, unlike the ones Susie has for Noelle, have developed naturally with no outside input. The narrative does not push them together and she has not yet put together that Kris has romantic feelings for her at all, so she isn't automatically reciprocating them. These feelings of hers have been building since before the game even began, and they're completely genuine.

We can infer that Susie probably sees herself in Kris as a weird loner kid and is angry that they get a loving mother and warm home and acceptance from their peers and decent grades, while she gets none of that. Add into that her thinking that Noelle and Kris were a thing... that's just more fuel for her jealousy. It was likely a complex thing, not anything so simple as mere envy. Why does Kris get to date some like Noelle but I don't? Why do they get this thing I've never gotten? Why can't I have something with them if they're so like me?

Because she sees herself in Kris, she also relates to them. She spends time thinking about them. She knows that they once tried to raise a demon; she takes the time to smell Kris' hair, as stated in Noelle's blog; she knows what their grades are; she knows they play video games and that they're good at them despite Kris really not wanting to be seen as a gamer. Everyone talks about Asriel all the time but she knows barely anything about him and yet seems to be able to just understand Kris, the left-behind younger sibling, in ways no one has before. She doesn't know these things about other characters. She knows them about Kris. Even the very fact that she used to think Kris and Noelle were a thing — these are two fairly estranged characters who state themselves that they aren't anywhere as close as they used to be, and who no one else seems to think is a thing (including Catti, who has a crush on Noelle herself, which is why she hates Susie). Susie pays enough attention to them to notice things other people don't and comes to that conclusion.

All these things (and more) imply that Susie has feelings for Kris. Let's think about her dialogue in Ch5 again: she says she's confused about her own feelings. She wonders if she's even capable of love because her feelings don't make sense to her and feel strange. This is all telling me that she doesn't understand what exactly she feels and can't easily differentiate between romantic and platonic feelings. Everything in her life is pointing to romance with Noelle, so she's pursuing that — but doing so suddenly makes her uncomfortable with doing things with Kris that she enjoyed before, like hanging out at the beach with them. She shuts them out in a way she never has before, yet in the same breath talks about how much better their thing is when it's just the two of them. It can't be just the two of them anymore, she says, even when she says it's better if it is.

This is her recognizing, unconsciously or consciously, that her feelings for Kris, what she does with Kris, these are not strictly platonic. I also want to call on some of Blue's dialogue, both with her and with Aqua. When Aqua asks him what love is, he describes it as: "A revolution, written in feathered pen, clashed by feathered sword." Hm. What does that make you think of? For me, it's the white pen of hope (the one that she denies she holds and says is wielded by Kris, implying that Kris is her hope) and Kris' — or, in parts of the Prophecy, Susie's — sword. When talking with Susie, after she expresses that she doesn't know if she's even capable of love, Blue says this to her: "Susie, if even a flower can love... so can you. The shape of love may change. It may be different for each being. But as long as that shape contains you... all you can do is step forward... and let it guide you." Note that his emphasis here isn't so much on "yes you are capable" and more on "love might look different". Let's remember that one of the major themes the flowers present in this chapter is that idea of breaking fate to achieve their own happiness and escape: as a major example, Flowery taunts Ralsei into acting out to try and tempt her into acting out in a much bigger way, aborting the Prophecy entirely. When Blue talks about "The shape of love may change", this to me isn't reassurances that her feelings for Noelle are genuine, but rather that whatever form her feelings take (romantic or platonic), it can still be called love. Plus, Blue tells her to let love guide her, but again, this is a chapter with focus on not going with the flow of the narrative, the Prophecy, because it's harmful. So what is left that Susie follows? Kris. Consistently, Susie is guided by Kris.

6. Kris & Noelle's feelings

It's really heavily implied that Kris and Noelle don't currently have romantic feelings for each other. In the NR, picking Noelle options for most things just leaves Kris confused or uncomfortable; they don't pray for her at Church; they explicitly write "not Noelle" on their Queen and King voting paper if the player doesn't choose her as an option. In the WR, the player forces the two of them into romantically-coded scenarios that they clearly do not want (not wanting to be seen as a couple, Noelle's discomfort with a symbolic wedding ring, etc). Many have pointed out the SA parallels to some of the scenes. It's really obviously shown that both of them think this is strange behaviour and have no desire to pursue each other romantically.

But the fact that it's an option to do even in NR remains true, and a lot of the history we're given of the two of them does seem to imply that they had crushes on each other as kids. Noelle's dialogue about how they tried to vote for each other as king and queen of the festival, all the buildup of them on the ferris wheel as kids... not to mention how a lot of Kris' bullying of her as children comes across as "kid who's mean to their crush because they don't know how else to express their feelings". The very fact that Noelle likes Susie somewhat indicates her old feelings for Kris; where have I seen that "fantasy of a person who's mean to her but secretly cares" before? And there are many moments that show that they still care about each other a lot.

This reads to me very much as the two of them wanting to be friends again (remember how relieved Noelle is if Kris says they're friends in Ch2?), a desire that is always going to be coloured by the unfulfilled crushes they had as kids. They don't have those feelings now, but when recalling those fond memories, those are always going to be tinted by the old feelings. There's a tangible loss of what once was, even without the desire to make it real again in exactly the same way now.

They're the missing link in the polycule; they're the two that don't want to have romance with each other, who long to be close as friends. But circumstances deny them this — in NR with the secrets being kept from Noelle, and in WR with the psychological torture and forced romance the player puts the two of them through.

7. The lacking group dynamic

Now we get to my belief that the overall krusielle dynamic is... missing. I think this is up for debate, but personally, every time we see the 3 of them on screen, it always feels like one of them is third wheeling. Noelle third wheels Kris and Susie's weird antics; Kris third wheels Noelle and Susie's fluffy romance; Susie third wheels Kris and Noelle's nostalgia and history. There is no dynamic between all three of them, not like there is between Susie, Kris, and Ralsei (who I'm only comparing here as a trio, not a ship). Of the fun gang, every pair has their own dynamic, but none of them third wheel when they're together. They're a team. They're a unit. This isn't the case with Noelle, Susie, and Kris. There is no dynamic between the three of them. Many people can imagine one and that's awesome, but it's not written into the text itself. And it's something I think is kind of necessary between the three of them to work as a polyam relationship, given that all 3 (but particularly Kris and likely Susie) have insecurities about abandonment and self-worth.

8. Toby's intention & Speculation

Then finally, Toby's intention. Of all these feasible relationships, each pairing and then polyam trio, I can't imagine getting one fulfilled where any of the three of them ends up miserable at the end. Toby is a writer who balances his tragedy with hope very well, and he wants people to derive hope and joy from his stories. He writes with real intention and writes very well, and he cares a lot about his characters. Leaving one of these three to lament their loss isn't really his style and doesn't make for a satisfying ending. But not all these pairings result in that outcome. I imagine that suselle being the only pair to work out is too painful for Kris for Toby to write it; kriselle feels deeply unrealistic, especially when taking WR into consideration, even though I think it could end up more fulfilling for Susie to not have romance if done well (and I trust he'd do it well). Krusielle also seems unrealistic for the reasons stated above, but doesn't end in anyone hurting, so I think it's less unlikely than the previous two. I also think that for some of these relationships, it's worth bearing in mind that Catti also has a crush on Noelle, and I doubt Toby's put that in without good reason, even if it ends up going unfulfilled. Anyway, as for me, I think that if anything is going to work out (and I'm not even certain that one romantic relationship will prevail tbh), it'll be krusie. Because I think that everyone can come out the other side of that happy, a sentiment I honestly wouldn't have had prior to the end of Ch5 (prior to that, I honestly thought it'd either be nothing or suselle).

The end of Ch5 leaves us with Susie saying she's going to tell Noelle about the Dark Worlds and then prepping hard for that. This alone already makes me think that that's not going to work out well for her; narratively speaking, when a character goes all in on that style of prep, it makes me expect it to go badly. I'm already gritting my teeth in advance seeing that.

Now add onto that where we leave Noelle. Her very ill father has just had a fall. That on its own is going to be stretching her emotional bandwidth pretty thin. But I think there's an added layer here: Noelle probably blames herself for it.

We see Noelle act with rare mostly-healthy confidence during the festival. This leads to her hanging up on her mom… who is calling to tell her that her dad has had a serious fall. We also know that Rudy downplays his illness a lot and pushes himself hard for Noelle's sake. We see him do it to go to church, and we can infer that he's out there finishing the lights the whole day so that the festival can be perfect for her big date with Susie. Him overexerting himself on her behalf is what causes him to fall. And I'm sure Noelle knows that.

Is this Noelle's fault? Absolutely not. But we've already said she has a tendency to blame herself, and it's easy to see her do so here and carastrophize about what happened. So here are some outcomes I think are likely:

Susie tells Noelle everything. Noelle immediately turns around and makes a Dark Fountain, which causes #problems. I think this is the most likely if Rudy is dead (though I doubt he is) and the least likely if he isn't.

Alternatively, Noelle tells Susie that she can't deal with this right now and leaves. This might be coupled with a "I think we shouldn't be together because look what happened", but it could easily just be a "I can't deal with this right now, I still like you but we need to put this on pause." Depends on how much she catastrophizes.

Possibly as a follow-up to the above or possibly happening entirely on its own: Susie makes a dark fountain for Noelle.

None of these feel like they'll end well. Introducing such drastic conflict so early into Noelle and Susie's relationship alongside the overarching conflicts of the game feels like a disaster waiting to happen. I anticipate it to lead to Susie being forced to confront her feelings for Noelle and whether they're genuine and how strongly she really feels them, whether that's more important to her than the other things going on in her life; I expect Noelle to have confrontation over her own agency and desires. I'm hoping that we see confrontation over Susie's persistent desire for things to remain the same VS. Noelle's desire for something in her life to actually change. I'm also hoping we see conflict between Susie and Kris over their current disconnect, but I don't have the concrete evidence to say I expect it.

I can see all this leading to a healthy breakup. I can see them coming to terms with the sources of their respective feelings and no longer feeling the need to rely on each other to fulfill these parts of themselves, based on the conflicts I speculated on. I have a harder time seeing this for Kris, especially with just how hard-hitting their misery over Susie and Noelle getting together is this chapter. It's visceral. I doubt there's a way for them to move on and accept it, at least not in so short a span as 2 chapters. But I can see that for Susie and Noelle in a way that actually develops them as characters and as people.

9. Counter Evidence

Well, these have been my overall thoughts, but I would be remiss to not offer a couple pieces of counter evidence / alternate interpretations that I thought of. I'll briefly list them here.

Susie's confusion over her own feelings may instead be pointing towards her being arospec. While this would be interesting, it's not something I'm personally interested in for her and I don't think it properly resolves Kris' feelings. But I do think it's very possible that no relationships get confirmed at the end and all characters end up relatively happy, so this is a very valid alternate interpretation of that evidence.

There's still some uncertainty over the "The Girl" Prophecy screens. Some people still believe that Susie may not be "The Girl" from the Prophecy, which throws a wrench in the evidence I've provided; another interpretation (that I personally am fond of) is that those screens represent a Kris/Susie fusion (which has been heavily foreshadowed up to now). This might explain why she looks different in those screens, and "LOVE FINDS THE GIRL" may be more in reference to the SOUL and the UT usage of "LOVE" (Level Of ViolencE). Though the Prophecy seems to appear with a sort of intention in order to lead Susie forward, showing her what she wants to see and leading her to certain conclusions about herself even if they are false, this would still weaken the relevant evidence I provided.

There's a heavy focus on trios/throuples this chapter that give off mixed messages. The love dojo has explicitly banned trios, but Elnina and Lanino heavily imply they want a third and are just denying it. There's ambiguity with Clover and Cap'n on whether Clover counts as one person or three, which causes confusion over whether it can be allowed or not. Susie can get mad at Sans if he stacks 3 teacups, saying that "TWO was fine. NO ONE asked for THREE." Knocking on the apartment door with Kris, Noelle, and Susie gets you the response of "this could only be achieved by the bonds of eternal companionship". Some of the evidence I've provided earlier (like Blue's dialogue with Susie and the fact that Susie doesn't specify who she was jealous of) could be interpreted towards polyamory. There's a lot of evidence to support this theme of "there's only space allowed for 2 and only 2 is considered to be 'right', but what you actually want is 3". On the flipside, though, we also get some evidence pointing away from that: Kris feels gross looking at a stack of 3 teacups. Berdly believes that they're just tagging along with Susie and Noelle's date without being romantically involved, like their dog. Cap'n finds dating Clover, made up of multiple differing personalities between the 3 heads, immensely stressful and regrets his decision. The Pizzapants scene (which I hate to compare with Kris' situation out of respect for them, but, well. It's necessary) has some parallels to the krusielle situation, and there is no scenario where three people work out together — especially not Blue Ears, who parallels Kris the most. Plus, Kris continuously seems upset by joining Susie and Noelle, or having Noelle join them and Susie (they remain face-down at the picnic table while being forgotten about, they're deeply upset at the end of the game, etc). All this evidence is contradictory, but the evidence in support of polyamory on its own is more convincing; when paired with the other evidence I presented earlier, I find it a lot less convincing, but it's still definitely worth pointing out.

The Ferris Wheel

Scene redraw

beach episode!!!