dust2dust34

Now in my opinion, forever love doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re meant to be together forever, because we all know that there are a ton of obstacles in their way (vampirism, curse, destinies, their lives, etc), and although they would gladly be together if the universe allowed them to, that hasn’t been their reality. But that doesn’t mean that the love isn’t there and always will be. Them having a forever love means that they will always love each other. Even when they move on, it’s consistently shown that loving each other is a part of who they are. Angel wouldn’t be Angel if he didn’t love Buffy and Buffy wouldn’t be Buffy if she didn’t love Angel (“Buffy is a part of me and that’s never gonna change”). They never fall out of love. They move on because life keeps happening, and they experience new relationships, but they never get over each other. That’s why it’s a forever love.

I also think it’s kind of cool that all of their other romances have a definitive conclusion. But not them. Every time you think it’s done, it rears its head again, whether it’s when they see each other and pick up right where they left off, or when someone mentions the other, or when something happens that reminds them of the other. No other couple in the Buffyverse has this. How they feel about each other is a consistent and present part of their characterization, and they don’t shy away from it.

Anyway, I just think it’s beautiful that no matter how much time has passed, how much distance there is between them, no matter who else they may have feelings for, they will always love each other.

FOREVER LOVE, BAYBAYYY!

IT IS HIS MIDDLE AND RING FINGER HE DOESN’T USE

Kinda blurry but

HE USES HIS THUMB TO PULL THE DRESS UP AND POINTER FINGER TO MOVE THE HAIR

COLIN DID IN FACT SPIDER-MAN HER

THE RING. THE RIIIIIIIIIING.

But I am also almost CERTAIN that he was going in with his thumb on her clit so maybe he's only half a gentleman ahahaha okay but seriously, wouldn't his ring be more askew if he was going Spiderman instead of Bunny Ears? Plus, he wouldn't be able to be in as deep, and from her reactions, he was going for gold.

I argue that his pinky was doing most of the work in pulling that dress up and he mostly just hooked his thumb on the underside (which makes sense because dresses were very hard to launder back in the day, we love a considerate king) and then he was okay with brushing her hair back with his index finger because she can more easily wash it.

I maintain that Colin Bridgerton went cum hither knuckles deep in Penelope with his first two fingers!!!!

Remember, Penelope is a virgin. Like extra virgin.

lol olive joke

After further consideration, would he really have been able to get two in the pink if this was her absolute first time?

If his middle finger goes in, like IIIIIIN, and he uses the heel of his palm on her clit and sometimes his thumb, woo boy that’s impressive

I’m just glad we agree that the middle finger was certainly “going for gold,” as you so eloquently stated.

I argue the wingman was his index finger

Evidence 1:

Enough said

Evidence 2:

His index and middle finger are much closer in size and length than his index and ring finger. In proper cave diving, it is important for equipment to be consistent! His ring also maintains the same orientation pre-fingering as post-fingering, and with how heavy they were going at it

that thang would have been on backwards by the time he was done

However, you are so right-- he was using the heel of his palm to rub her off whilst he was (heavy) petting her from the inside out!!! Which is why he feels alright to adjust her dress with his thumb. He literally had her in the palm of his hand.

The two in the pink are his index and middle. Penelope is a woman who wants it all and he's giving it to her!

I believe this is when digit 2 went in. Cause he’s also absolutely entranced. Besotted. Going crazy at the fact that he is KNUCKLES DEEP in his best friend and he loves it.

While I think ol’ ringy DEFINITELY saw some action, middle finger did the most and pointer was the assist.

Luke Newton the man that you are, you fantastic actor you.

@dollypopup I truly appreciate this conversation, I applaud your debating skills, well done.

Bravo.

It has been an honor discussing this with you and coming (ha) to a conclusion.

when I read the book I didn't empathise with Billy all too much, and felt that he was the most unreliable narrator when it came to his depiction of himself. supposedly, in the book, he stays completely clean after his initial time in rehab, and never cheats on Camilla with daisy at all because their relationships is that of 'twin flames' and not at all physical. the show has him relapse instead and kiss daisy multiple times. I actually found that this made him more easy to empathise with because it made him seem more like a real, deeply flawed human being. the idea that relapsing or morally wrong actions makes you 'shallow' or unsympathetic is harmful.people who struggle with addiction are not less than complex human beings because of that struggle, and should be empathized with more, not less. additionally, he and daisy having a more overt physical relationship in the show doesn't at all take away from the twin flames nature of their relationship. I think it enhances their individual weaknesses and failing points. they are at their most self destructive when they're working against one another, and at their best when they're caring for each other. they make each other better, as Karen said. I think the physicality of their relationship just worked to further demonstrate their destructive tendencies. daisy telling billy to go to Camilla was a natural progression in her arc to being a better person, because by caring for billy she is, in turn, beginning to heal herself.

I've also seen an abundance of complaints about the depiction of Camilla in the show, particularly people either stating that she's less sympathetic because we can see her flaws and mistakes now, or that the changes to billy and Daisy's storyline are unfair to her. on the contrary, I found the show was more fair to her because she was allowed to be a person with flaws, and we were able to see ehow hurt she was by what happened. in the book she's an angel, and is completely robbed of agency and a certain degree of complexity because she never gets to speak for herself. her side of the story is told by the people who love her most, the people who, given that she is dead before the interviews in the book begin, look back on her as perfect. choosing to have her tell her own story was one of the best decisions the show made, because it made her a fully formed human being, as opposed to a saint amongst 'sinners'.

DJATS it's an adaptation and in the book, the original source, Billy Dunne is a recovered addicted in his 70's remembering his rock star days and how those days conflicted with the man he wanted to be. Was him perfect? Jesus, no. That man was garbage. BUT he has the benefit of trying.

Show Billy was stripped of all the grace that made Book Billy complex, becoming a shallow version of himself with no depth, moral or control. Who was Billy Dunne?

Billy Dunne fought relapsing with everything he had. He made pancakes to his daughters (yes he has three, which he chose to have with his wife) and carried his wife to bed. Billy Dunne fell in love with Daisy and burned with her. They created art and chaos together. She was his twin flame and he loved her, completely. He never needed it to kiss her or sleep with her. In fact, that was the main appeal to them: he loved daisy, not her body, as all the others man in her life. Not that he wasn't attracted to her. But it wasn't that to him. He also loved Camila, his wife and soulmate, deeply. He broke her but spend all his days trying to live up to the man he thought she deserved. Camila had faith on him and looked at him seeing more than his mistakes and sins. Because she loved him, he survived and achieved his dreams. Because he loved her, she found strength to forgive.

Billy overcame addiction, which it isn't easy. Billy broke generational trauma and gave his brother a mirror of a man who could be a example of father and husband. Billy loved two women and while yes, it broke all the three of them, he did his best to be there for Camila while trying to show Daisy that she deserved so much better. Camila also shows Daisy underserved kindness. As someone whose people never had faith in, Camila's act of faith saves Daisy Jones.

We all can understand that tv shows were never keen of complex relationships and feelings, specially romantic ones, right? They would never translate the depth of Billy's love for Camila or they would never show the depth of Billy's affection for daisy, or so they thought. So they chose one of those. But in this choice, they actually stoled everything that made Billy Dunne be Billy Dunne. They stoled his strength, his loyalty, his sense of duty and his layered, complex heart.

…

Prince Oliver of The Verdant Isles has led a charmed life, one he enjoyed excessively until life threw him a twist. Now, he’s determined to fulfill his father’s wishes and take control of the Kingdom of Starling… No matter what.

Princess Felicity of Starling has always known what’s in store for her life. Her sense of duty is strong, but her father’s plans for her life are so ordinary. Which is why the princess developed an extensive network of spies throughout the 13 kingdoms… and how she finds out about invaders from The Verdant Isles heading ashore.

Fate makes them enemies. But when the prince is caught and held captive by Starling, will they defy fate and define their own destinies?