Historical Dogs And Things

Ch Thornfield Knockout, wire-haired fox terrier whelped 1894 and owned by Major G.M. Carnochan

so, because of the XL bully legislation over in the UK, there has been a lot of misinformation about them and bully breeds in general. I'm tired of seeing it, so as tumblr's resident Pit Bull Guy I've decided to make an informative post for people who aren't as autistic about dogs as i am

What is an American Bully?

as per the ukc standard: "The American Bully breed developed as a natural extension of the American Pit Bull Terrier. The APBT has maintained a characteristic appearance and temperament for over 100 years. As with any long-standing breed, several types evolved from the parent breed, with one in particular taking on a specific build and structure that is so unique it was wise to recognize it as a different breed altogether. That being the American Bully breed.

The American Bully breed was subtly influenced by the infusion of several other breeds, which include the American Bulldog, English Bulldog, and Olde English Bulldogge."

basically, starting in the 80s and 90s, breeders began making an effort to develop a more low energy alternative to the american staffordshire terrier (amstaff) and american pit bull terrier (apbt) with more of a "bulldoggy" appearance. they also bred away from typical terrier traits like high prey drive and a tendency for dog aggression.

they accomplished this by crossing apbts and amstaffs from ukc and akc show lines with various other breeds.

this is and has always been a companion breed. they have never been bred for dog fighting. ever. they would actually be utterly useless as fighting dogs (i could go into the "why" but that's not what this post is about)

there is absolutely a significant amount of overlap between american bullies and other "pit bull" breeds (amstaffs and show-line apbts specifically) but the lines between the bull terrier breeds have always been very blurry, so that's not surprising

Types of American bully

there are five main varieties of american bully. i will be briefly covering each one

(ch kai kai, a standard variety american bully)

the standard variety is sort of the base (for lack of a better word) that the other varieties are based on.

here is the standard

they range from 16-20 inches tall, depending on the sex. while there is no set weight, they're typically less than 80 lbs. this variety is, imo, the most consistent and the one i usually recommend to people who want to get into these dogs but dont know which variety to go with. the temperaments on these guys are also, in my experience, very solid.

(gr ch beastro, a pocket variety american bully)

not to be confused with the unrecognized "micro" bully, the only real difference between a pocket and a standard is the size (under 17 inches for males and under 16 inches for females, but never less than 13 inches) other than that, it follows the same breed standard.

there are some nice pockets out there (for example, the one pictured here) but they unfortunately tend to be pricey. their compact build is easy to exaggerate and many breeders fall into this trap.

(Ch Boston Kreme, a classic variety american bully)

my favorite american bully variety and possibly the least popular lmao

these guys are roughly the same size as standards, but with less bulk and a more moderate build. they're supposed to resemble the early american bullies bred in the late 80's-early 90's

these dogs are a bit more likely to retain more apbt/amstaff characteristics than the other varieties, such as a high prey drive and a tendency for dog aggression. this is a fault in the breed, but it still pops up from time to time

(gr ch dax, an extreme variety american bully)

and now for my least favorite variety lol

worth noting that this variety is no longer recognized by the abkc, but i'm still including it in the "official" variety list because it was recognized for years and there are still bullies that would've been considered "extreme" a decade ago still competing in the pocket and standard classes

same height as the standard, but with a lot more bulk. these dogs got the american bully breed a ton of criticism back in the day. now, of course, exotics and micros have taken over that role

i wouldn't recommend this class. i've never known one that didn't die young (including dax here, who died at age 6? i believe?)

(Staxx, an XL variety american bully)

now for the controversial one. XLs are defined as any dog taller than 19-20 inches and can range from just slightly bigger to absolutely enormous

this variety has absolutely exploded in popularity, thanks partially to a dog named Hulk who made headlines as the "world's biggest pit bull" (which is... misleading at best)

Hulk wasnt really a good example of an XL and was actually mostly dogue de Bordeaux and american bulldog, with only a bit of pit blood thrown in. his owners also overfed him so he weighed more lol

but he did his job, he made breeding XLs an extremely profitable business and shitty breeders began popping up everywhere

also worth noting that a lot of XL breeders add mastiff blood of various types to their lines, dogue de Bordeaux, cane corso and neapolitan mastiff being the most common. this results in the dogs being a lot more likely to display "guard dog" type behavior than the rest of the breed (remember: ANY sign of human aggression in any variety is an automatic DQ)

i wouldn't recommend these dogs unless you really know what you're doing and you know which lines to avoid (more on this later!)

Exotic/Micro Bullies

this section will be fairly short because it's pretty cut and dry

essentially, "exotics" are to american bullies as "teacups" are to chihuahuas. thanks to interbreeding with french and english bulldogs as well as selecting for the most exaggerated conformation possible, exotics are outside the accepted breed standard and are not recognized as a legitimate variety by the ukc or the abkc

they have extremely short lifespans and a metric fuckton of health issues. it is simply not ethical to breed them and they should be avoided like the plague

so what's happening in the UK?

as far as i can tell (i am american so i'm not as well informed on british news as someone who actually lives there) the majority of XL bully population in the UK is linebred on a dog named UKC's Most Wanted Kimbo.

Kimbo is notorious for producing dogs with unstable temperaments and his progeny have actually killed people

Kimbo was bred extensively in both the US and the UK, but from what I've seen his line has become a lot less popular in the states for obvious reasons. the american bully groups in the states has actually done a commendable job of trying to figure out why kimbo's offspring are so dangerous and how to select against it

in the UK, however, he remains one of the most prolific studs in the country and many of his offspring are the ones involved in the attacks we're hearing about. I believe Kimbo (as well as just haphazard breeding in general and irresponsible ownership) is the main reason why we're hearing about so many more XLs attacking people in the UK vs the US (despite the fact that there are undoubtedly a larger number of XLs in america)

Is banning them the answer?

in short: no.

breed specific legislation doesn't really do anything to increase public safety and has a tendency to only really be enforced against marginalized people (people of color specifically)

this is not to say that anyone who is wary of or even actively dislikes pit bull types is a racist, but the lawmakers and the cops who enforce these laws certainly are. breed ban advocates are already claiming that XLs were bred to guard drug dens and were produced by "hip hop gangster culture" which should tell you all you need to know

and while I'm glad that the legislation won't result in dogs getting destroyed en masse (instead the law would require muzzles and the dogs getting neutered) I'm still extremely wary of any excuse for cops to terrorize people over something as irrelevant as what their dog looks like.

closing thoughts

it's no secret that i love pit bulls and their offshoots (though i am more of an apbt guy tbh) so i can understand dismissing this post as too biased to take seriously. however, even if you hate these dogs, this legislation isn't going to do anything but give cops yet another excuse to terrorize people. is that really what we want?

I absolutely do think the XL bully breed is in a fucking awful state in the UK, that isn't up for debate and i do think the breed should be a lot less popular because most people aren't really equipped to handle an 145 lb bully/mastiff mutt that's also heavily inbred. But i do firmly believe that endorsing this law will do more harm than good.

I would be genuinely interested in a number of expansions on the points you're making here, although I admit each of the answers to these questions could be a rather time consuming post in its own right:

what the hell is going on with Kimbo's offspring in terms of aggression? As in, when you decompose the risk factors, what aspects do you see?

Given that temperament has always been a major stated priority in Am Bully breeding, how has that temperament historically been assessed and bragged on by people who are promoting specific dogs? (I'm not necessarily looking for a prescriptive definition of how temperament "should" be tested; I'm curious to see how people actually market and brag on their dogs. The Am Bully community has not exactly had a warm welcome from the broader dog breeding community and I'm kind of expecting cultural differences.)

so as far as i can tell, kimbo himself never attacked anyone. this would explain why it took so long for people to realize that he was the common denominator in so many attacks. after all, you don't expect a dog that never displayed any human aggression himself to produce unstable aggressive pups.

as for why he was bred, you've gotta remember that this was in the 2000s before xl bully breeders started getting serious about things like conformation. as far as i can tell, Kimbo was bred from because he was big and people erroneously believed that the more heavily inbred a dog is, the better (this is, for some reason, a weirdly common idea amongst american bully and apbt people)

what the hell is going on with Kimbo's offspring in terms of aggression? As in, when you decompose the risk factors, what aspects do you see?

from a behavioral standpoint, this is actually very interesting. as well as just really fucking bizarre.

all of the attacks i've read about by kimbo's progeny seem to have one thing in common: the dogs are absolutely fine, until suddenly they aren't.

I disagree with a lot of the material on this site, but their account of the fatal 2014 attack involving Niko, a son of Kimbo, is alarming to say the least

"Their family dog, Nico, a 60kg Bully XL, suddenly started barking, an unusual behaviour for the normally mild-mannered two-year-old dog. When Megan investigated, Nico’s expression was unlike anything she had seen before.

Despite Nico’s history as a loyal and gentle companion, Megan instinctively felt danger. As she tried to grab Mia and step in to the safety of the bedroom, Nico, positioned in the living room, closed the distance between them with unexpected speed. Despite Megan’s attempts, Nico’s imposing frame forced its way into the room, and he focused his attack on Mia."

"Police arrived to secure the apartment. Nico was shot three times from outside by officers. Undeterred, he charged at the officers as they attempted to enter the apartment, prompting them to shoot him ten more times."

"He recalls the dog’s sudden and inexplicable change in demeanour as if he had been possessed by a demon. He believes that such an instant transformation could only result from aggressive traits in Nico’s bloodline. This theory is bolstered by rumours that nearly every dog from Nico’s litter would eventually be put down."

weird, right? this just doesn't sound like normal human aggression to me. something is clearly very very wrong here.

after this attack, people confronted Kimbo's owner and when he refused to take responsibility (I've seen him blame everything from steroids to the females he bred Kimbo to) the line essentially got blacklisted by american owners and breeders.

some people speculate that Kimbo's offspring are displaying symptoms of "rage syndrome" and are urging owners to screen their dogs. I'm very interested to see what the results are, because while there are some striking similarities and it would explain a lot, i've also never heard of the disorder occurring in this breed

Given that temperament has always been a major stated priority in Am Bully breeding, how has that temperament historically been assessed and bragged on by people who are promoting specific dogs?

so as i said, until recently the american bully breeders as a whole have been...sketchy? to say the least when it comes to proving their dogs. in the 2000s you'd have to search pretty hard to find a stud with any titles, conformation or performance, and you were sort of just supposed to take the breeder's word for it when they told you the dog was good with kids

since the breed's UKC recognition in 2013, things have absolutely improved, but there are absolutely still breeders who just don't really do anything to "prove" their dogs before breeding them. especially in the UK where bully shows are a lot less common and they aren't recognized by any major kennel club

And I do think "why would American Bullies make awful dog fighting dogs" could be a fun post, especially if it focuses on temperamental tendencies rather than the obvious. (The bulk of most American Bully types makes them slower, less flexible, and prone to significantly less stamina than a lighter dog can command; they've been bred to be pets and this is very clear in their structure.)

so while you are absolutely correct, the big barrel chest, shorter muzzle and heavy build of the american bully makes him pretty ineffective against a more agile opponent like an apbt, the bigger problem is gameness. or, in the bully's case, lack thereof.

probably the most well known: pete the pup from our gang/the little rascals was registered both as an apbt and an amstaff. the dog that plays him in the 1994 movie, however, is an american bulldog.

fatty arbuckle owned a pit bull named luke who was featured in several silent films between 1913 and 1920

buster brown's dog tige was a pit bull (and actually was portrayed by the same dog that played petey)

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pit bulls were often featured on life magazine covers (this isn't even all of them)

the first dog to travel across the us by car was a pit bull named bud

and, unfortunately, a whole shit ton of american military propaganda.

a dogfighter will "train" his inexperienced fighting dog by sparring him against other dogs, but this is exclusively done with other fighting dogs, not chihuahuas. the point is to expose the young dog to as many different fighting styles as possible before officially matching him against another dog for money. throwing a chihuahua into the pit with a fighting dog would serve no purpose except to make the dogfighter more likely to get caught (he'd have to get the chihuahua from somewhere) it's essentially the dogfighting equivalent of mike tyson training by beating the shit out of an 8 year old.

ironically, one of the most widely accepted (among dog fighting scumbag pieces of shit anyway) ways to prepare a dog to fight is to let the dog get nearly killed by a more experienced dog. this is called the game test and the point is to make sure that if things get bad during the official match, the dog won't "cur out" or stop fighting altogether. you have to remember these guys have a LOT of money riding on these dogs, they want to make sure the dog is worth betting on before they actually set up a real match

as for where the bait dog myth came from, i suspect that people found pit bulls from dogfighting busts that were "too friendly" to be fighting dogs (most fighting dogs are in fact very friendly towards people) and had visible scarring and decided that they must be bait dogs. eventually this mentality jumped to other breeds of dogs and even other species and now we have people claiming any beat up stray dog is a former bait dog, even if the dog in question has no proximity to a known dogfighting operation. it's also a good story, "rescued bait dog" is a lot more sensational than "stray chihuahua that probably got mauled by another stray at some point"

Georgia (pictured above), one of the michael vick dogs, was thought to be an example of this. she was definitely fought or at least "tested" (these guys will absolutely not breed any dog that hasnt at least been through a game test) but she had no teeth. every single one had been pulled.

"Blackmoor Brand was born in 1943, at a time when very few dogs were bred at all, due to the war. He is significant in Cocker history as the sire of pivotal stud dog, Ch Colinwood Cowboy." https://cockerspanieldatabase.info/en/Blackmoor-Brand/pedigree/32952/i

yes but they're not well bred. dogs from good breeders do not end up in shelters because a good breeder will require you to send the dog back to them if you cant keep it

"all purebreds have unnecessary and heartbreaking health conditions"

that's literally not true, first of all. SOME purebred dogs do, yes, but not all. not even most.

second of all I'd love to introduce you to my shelter mutt who died slowly of degenerative myleopathy and had insane skin issues her entire life if you think health issues are something that only purebreds experience

"most ethical breeders keep their animals in terrible conditions"

no they dont. if they do then they're not ethical breeders.

do you have a single fucking source for ANY of this? have you ever even been to a responsible breeder's home and seen the animals' living conditions? or is this a no facts just vibes type of deal?

"not to mention the preventable illnesses unfixed animals suffer"

there are risks to keeping animals intact, yes, but there are also risks to fixing them. especially if you do so at too young an age

and unlike you, i will provide a source :)

Edmund Henry Osthaus (1858 – 1928). Setters. Oil on canvas.