Why do you not think the use of magic is ok? I mean like what if you worship hades and hekate?
I do think the practice of magic is okay, I just don’t think it’s Traditional. I am of the rather strong opinion that modern witchcraft has no place in Hellenismos–especially when that witchcraft is defined as acts which allow humanity influence over their lives and those of others, outside of the realm of the Gods. I call anything else ‘praying’, and if you need tools for that, than I take no issue besides the fact that it’s non-Traditional–save for when it is.
Something I often hear about the ancient Hellenic religion, and prescribed about its modern equivalent, is that there was no magic in ancient Hellas. This is true. It’s also a lie. It all depends on your definition of magic. Yes, there was ‘magic’ and ‘witchcraft’ in ancient Hellas and its mythology, but not in the way we know it now; this was divine magic; a manifestation of a trait major Gods manifest with a thought and for which lesser deities require a medium to manifest. Their powers, however, are still the powers of a God. This is exactly why I feel we, as Hellenists, should pray to the Gods for any aid we might require, and blessings we would wish upon our lives; to practice magic ourselves would be to equate ourselves with the (minor) Gods, and Hellenismos is clear upon the status of humans: we are human, not divine. In my view, to practice magic is to practice hubris, and that is decidedly dangerous in a Hellenistic context.
The ancient Hellenes worshipped Hekate just like they did other Gods. They worshipped Plouton (an Ouranic epithet of Hades) like that as well. In general, they did not worship Hades–or very rarely. Hades adn hekate were nto equated with the practice of magic; Hekate, if anything, was equated with protection from magic–mostly against the Evil Eye. Practicing magic, in a Traditional practice, makes absolutely no sense, and so I do not. that does not mean I am against it. I think the practice of magic is beautiful. To me, it just does not belong in Hellenismos.
I’d like to add to this that we need to make a distinction between Hellenic magic and the magick practised in Wicca/Neo-Wicca/Neo-Paganism nowadays.
Magic is recorded in Ancient Greece, and as far as I know, it was not a problem. It was feared, and so practised secretly - like other chthonian rituals - but it didn’t go against the traditional cult. It was just an addition to it, like some Mysteries and philosophies. (Of course, I’d imagine some people took issue with it, but it wasn’t as much in contradiction with the tradition as, say, worshipping multiple Gods is in Christianity.)
Take, for example, this small text we translated in class today:
Hekate Khthonia, Artemis Khthonia, Hermes Khthonios:
cast your hate upon Phanagora and Demetrios, and their tavern and their property and their possessions. I will bind my enemy Demetrios, and Phanagora, in blood and in ashes, with all the dead. Nor will the next four-year cycle release you. I will bind you in such a bind, Demetrios, as strong as possible, and I will smite down a kunotos on [your] tongue.
(Note the appearance of Hekate as a Goddess who curses people through magic, not who protects them.)
You could argue that the presence of Gods makes this text closer to an incantation or a prayer, but that would be applying modern definitions to an ancient source - not to mention that the author of the text, though they ask for the Gods’ help, curses Demetrios and Phanagora themselves, as evidenced by the formula “I will bind”. These magical texts are not prayers: the gestures (burning materials, making noise, crushing bones) confirm it. Take this quote from Theocritus’s Idylls, book 2, as another example:
Khaire, frightful Hekate! Attend me to the end, and make my enchantments as powerful as those of Kirke, or Medeia, or blonde Perimeda.
(…)
I will crush a salamander and bring to him tomorrow an unfavorable drink. Thestylis, take these herbs and go crush them on the steps of his house while it is still night, and spit out: “I am crushing the bones of Delphis.”
(Again, note the presence of Hekate.)
As you’ve mentioned before, the Gods rule over every aspect of our daily life. In a civilisation where these Gods are honoured as such by the entire population, it would be extremely strange to encounter an even vaguely ritual text in which divine intervention plays no part.
The Gods preside over rituals. Some of these rituals are traditional incantations, prayers and/or sacrifices designed to honour or give thanks to one or several deities. Others are magical, like the texts above, and designed to affect a person or place through the intervention of one or several deities. They may not belong to the state religion, but they were just as widely practised in Ancient Greece as the rest.
Finally, as I said, Wiccan/etc magick is a different case. In Hellenic magic, the Gods are called upon and asked to ensure that a ritual will have the desired effect; in Wiccan/etc magick, the Gods are used as tools and intermediaries. I agree with you that this is hubris and has no place within traditional Hellenismos. I simply wanted to make it clear that, while I believe that magick in the modern sense cannot be reconciled with our religion, there is a real, historical practise which can.


















