I am yearning for cookies

healthy water ship

Ichiya was saying his "love for Erza" was not real love

Ichiya's love for Erza had many similarities or is equal to Juvia's love for Gray

So Mashima you know that this is not real love

So after I tried to creat understanding for anti gruvians through the question lense of gruvians (”Why do they waste their energy on “negatively”, on sth they hate and keep having energy to do that?”)...Which poses the following question, I guess, whether anti gruvians were even aware that they “were” “shipping gruvia on any level”, let alone if they “would agree with me on that” or “wanted to do that”.

Let’s continue and explore maybe the other side through the anti gruvia question filter “Why gruvians do not bother so much about this “toxic representation of an relationship and its effect on society, victims of toxic realationships” in order to creat understanding understanding for gruvians.

Since, I am not a gruvia shipper in the sensu stricto, but in the sensu of my last post, I will now try to bridge both sides by creating a common ground, to build a plattform we can understand each other by using the arguments I am aware of, as hints for its potential correctness.

Eventhough, it is true on a global scale that energy cannot be created nor destroyed/”wasted” and is transformable into each other and therefore there is only “one energy existing”, we are living in a world, which is chemically not an isolated environment, meaning energy transformed into some energy forms will not easily be stored than others and is under realistical world conditions not easily transformable into its former form.

Example chemical energy is stored easily into compounds like suggar, fat, proteins and in the electrical bonds they have. Eat them and you can fuel your chemical reactions, physical reactions, produce warmth and so forth. Warmth however is quite difficult to turn into chemical energy.

So we are living in a word, where it certainly can seem that the truth “that energy cannot be created nor destroyed” is rather irrelevant in order to live our lives, if not even to say it is beneficial to even despite this truth treat energy as if it is limited, rare, can be "wasted”, hoarded and “well invested”, or “differentiated” based on its attributes, appearance, usages. Following this logic we created different names for them aswell, in order to be able to speak about them, creating on the concept level an illusion, which is far more practical to use and adapt and therefore feeling “more realistic” than the truth itself. There is now just one big disadvantage of this agreement. Creating the illusion of variety can backfire if people forget that they are connected, transformable, meaning influencing each other, following an inherent pattern which cannot be changed. CREATING THE POSSIBILITY OF INCOHERENCE, plotholes the arch enemy of trust, coperation, understanding, growth, my brain cells and it can also creat inbalance, lack, suffering.

In this world you can “creat energy” by producing it following a receipt, follwing it step by step, following the rules (a plant getting all its needs met, can do photosynthesis and creat suggar etc., readers getting their emotional needs and hopes met, creat love and appretiaion in return) OR you can simply “consume it”, transform it into things you want it to be, or selecting the nutritions you need from it and discard the rest.

We as energy beings do both, but gruvians and anti gruvians are chosing different approaches if it comes to their shipping experience.

And now it will get interesting, Gruvians do not like to put realistic standarts on an anime, however they seem to be more accepting of the reality than anti gruvians, or maybe accepting is the wrong word since they also turn off reality by enjoying animes as we do, they are following the rules of the realistic world more obediant: “Reality is what it is”, similar to “the work of this mangaka is what it is”, “the canon relationship is what it is”, not question it, or even bother with its conceptional level, its messages, its influences it has in general or towards some groups of people, or whether they want to change it or not, stand for it or not, support it indirectly or not. They focus on the product not on the spiritual, message layer of it, and whether it was meant as propaganda, conveys a political toxic message. As long as it exists it has value for them and is successful, and therefore "critizing" its other layers "after" it was already published, is "pityful", must be a product of jealousy, disrespect towards the authors efforts who just fallowed the demands of the fans/publishers/manga expectations/manga industry/standart rules of trope usgaes etc. Therefore... “Are you attacking their demands/mangas of our time in general, which gives them joy if you critize it?” Well, then they will protect the mangaka and attack you instead. Mangas are so frequently produced by copying, recycling tropes, so there cannot be anything wrong with that so WHY critizing it in general (energy waste) or in particular in case of their beloved anime/ ship? Is this a crusade only against their sources of happiness? How dare you.They totally dismiss the opprtunity, that critic can be used as improvement and be appreciatet or even considered as beneficial or welcomed. Maybe since they never experienced this possibility in reality.

And Since their consumption strategy does not need to concern about that, whether it makes sense, follows a coherent logic, is healthy or toxic, it takes what it needs and “hates” the rest, it selects afterwards. They creat energy in their fandom not by fallowing the source material and enjoying its coherency. But creating their own coherency and see plotholes even as space to fill it with their own ideas. They do not see mangas as a tool of value expression of the author and thereby untouchable for fanchanges, or to teach its readers values, lessons like real fairy tales used to.

“Anti Gruvia”s on the other hand, believe that the world can change, improve if the concept level is corrected and believe that this is easier done in 2 D level than 3 D level. Seeing coherency in the 2D world, gives them energy and validation that there is a possibility for the 3D world to improve aswell.

If they meet people with red flags, they know, these are already toxic on their belief / concept level and every action they do and the consequence of it is an manifestition of it and it would take less energy to correct the concept level in time than to deal with the consequence mess afterwards. Therefore, if they manage to creat or correct media with heathy relationship presentations...

What if these toxic people would learn to correct their ways by education, or feel ashamed doing their misdeeds, get into therapy earlier, work on their self love before getting into a relationship and thereby not letting their own children suffer the consequences of their own childhood traumas, or if the increased awareness of toxic and healthy relationships protects people to get into a bad one in the first place or would help people stuck in those, since people of their environment would not normalize bad relationships and would more likely intervene and help them by “seeing the problem earlier”. Media can reach far more people and you “will not get directly confronted/attacked by toxic people” (disputable big time) but on the same time still get active and not “just accept” the problems.

However, we humans are not living concepts, since most of us are not even aware of our concept, therefore sending energy to correct it... “won’t work” and is an “energy waste”, if they are not welcoming it. Since if sb. is already manifesting toxic traits on a behaviour level / or manga level , they are not critical about their own concept/ the concept of their art work or able to do so (abilities or pressures of expectations). This cannot be changed by words alone and “anti blogs”.

Furthermore, it will be seen as a personal attack on them, rather on their behaviour/concept and the critics will get attacked instead. Therefore gruvians wonder why anti gruvians are doing it. Why not consume it as it is and then change it later in your fanfictions if you dislike some parts of it? Why not accept reality and enjoy animes and mangas in your spare time as compensation? Why wasting “energy on fighting” rather than “enjoying/consuming/rebuilding” art? “Why treating manga characters like people and hold them to the same realistic standarts if your interest “should be/suppose to be” to read mangas to flee from reality and its standarts in the first place? “This does not make sense.”

The reason for that would be that most anti gruvians experienced the toxic consequences of a person with such a mindset, felt powerless towards them, and do not want to act in the same way like them, even in their spare time. These toxic individuals consumed them, not seeing them as equals, with a soul, a heart who can be worn out but as someone to consume, whose energy, attention, can be taken, hoarded and their feelings can be dismissed, demanded to change towards them by making them feel inadequat to feel these negative emotions in the first place, and being patient until they change their feelings “on their own” aka after pressure usage/ gaslighting/ creating dependency. And whenever they confronted these people  “come up with a fanfiction” instead of excusing their behaviour, beliefs, they reinterpretated their actions, or rediculed the perception of their “victim”, “supposed friend, family member, partner”, did not care for a truth outside their own conception or what they felt was relevant/practical/normal/made for them sense or which they were used to. Those people frequently believed to act toxic would not be toxic if they would copy behaviours already normalized in media since it could not be toxic if it is normalized in media and in the world, right? Wrong. “Jealousy is seen as sign of love in media, why shouldn’t it be in the real world aswell?” Since if you are healthy you would not feel jealousy at all...

So “their tongue” of anti gruvians is burned. They cannot easily “just consume things” as indifferently as others since they cannot enjoy something like that,, they select their media and when their media then turns sour they feel on one level betrayed. Anti gruvians associate with consumption negative things like exploitation. SInce they do not wish to be exploiters they invest themselves in their media they consume, feeling with the characters more strongly, seeing incoherency more clearly. They feel with the construct not just eat it. So yeah they project onto these characters aswell, however we all are doing it while reading manga to an extend.

So there is now a final conflict. The way of anti gruvians could have worked (at least in theory) if it would not be for the mere existance of fans “just consuming” manga.

To be honest, it is now also too late for Mashima to either break gruvia up or make them healthy, we would not be able to believe this “development” anymore.

Transforming bad works, while they are getting supported by consumers.... will bring no change on the material level. Sadly. So invest your energy in good work, deattach from it. Believe that quality will conquer at the end also these fans if they are ready for it. Your support anti gruvians of media with healthy relationships representation is far better invested, but it is not easy since I myself know the feeling of going “no contact” feels like “ghosting sth you once loved or walk out on sb/ betray yourself, others, your once favourit character, your hopes, predictions for this story, is feeling like you would forsake your ideals”.

But it is not. Not in this world we are living in. In this illusional world, it needs lack of attention from others for people to self reflect and change their work/ways. They need time and space. Let us give it to them then. No attention will get this better done than negative attention.

Furthermore, this manga is nowadays drawn to be consumed. This was established with Lucys final worlds in season 3. Every other volum afterwards, season was done under pressure with the purpose to sell and to get all parties involved in its production getting paid a living wage. This mangas success/ sells is now attached to their survival, it does not intent to continue or ever produce a masterpiece with great characters or messages anymore.

Mashima even said so in an interview. He was not planning in advance anymore since he worked on several projects at once. Since he didn’t need to and it was still sold. After volume 3 FT was classified as Ecchi manga, the tropes were increasing, the characters were degressing, the quality plumbed. Previous, only Lucys stellar spirits were comedy relief characters in the series while not even being human characters. This changed. Mashima recycled previous scenes of previous intended ships, in order to creat as many ships as possible and not have to invent new scenes, he did not even paid attention to the colour of Juvias crest, or position of scar. He got sloppy. The manga was kept produced to make the most of the nostalgia of our anti gruvians loyality or of the consume nature of gruvians (I use these groups here as example for the whole fandom). This was easily noticeable how Gray rejected Juvia several times and moments later a "gruvia moment happened". They played both groups.

The later group is far more immune to “these games”, since it is in their interest that it continues one way or the other. Living after this motto, I imagine at least " You live your life, were you cannot change much and have to accept much but at least FT continues, the gruvia fandom exists and it is even better that it is not "finished" / already become “official, canon undisputable” and is an up and forth since this prolongs the series and gives our fandom creativity opportunities". They do not care (as much) about its consistency or whether it treats the character development "respectfully" for their characters. They just need new input which brightens their week once a week, which looks beautiful. If they already have to accept/accepted to live in a world of illusion why be as strict or even stricter to their leisure time pleassure which "is not hurting anyone", "should not be taken serious", " is meant to be comedy, harmless, funny, not to be taken serious but lightly".

And since the mangaka concepted his work now to be consumed and seem not to care either about plotholes, character development either, "why do anti gruvians do"? They "obviously are the ones mistaken here, to think they can change the outcome". It is already "decided as canon", “now make the most of it in fandom or leave the fandom”, since "they do not want to be reminded in their spare time, leisure pleassure about real world standarts." Since manga anime, fandom is their way to cope with it by deattaching from it, by making the best out of this mess, “at least in this world also fandoms exist”. AND They cannot understand why? seem to struggle to enjoy these fandoms in the same way as they do and out of my experience have less patient to understand the other side since anti gruvians using 2D material to understand other perspectives and are trained in it while gruvians are not.

They consume 2D stories and make the characters occ if needed to process or achieve their own psychological, emotional needs through fanwork. They project onto their reinvention of these characters not so much on the original characters as a whole. By consumption the source material, rebulding it and getting praised by other gruvians for their fanworks, they creat independently their own happiness. (The quality of their fanwork is in general also far better than the source material at least in the health degree). They do not wish to change the world, to understand it or other beliefs or the messages of the mangas they read. They are reading them in order to have a good time, to get energy and happiness by being active in fandoms and doing so gives them energy to continue living in our world.

Now, as mentioned before, FT is somehow a special case, since it started differently. Therefore, it would be unfair to say to anti gruvians, "hey why do they even start to read it, if they were "not into it", "enjoying it" "getting energy/ happiness from it (anymore)"?. But in the same time it is the reality now for several volumes that FT is a manga produced for easy entertainment, money making and consumption. It has no values, stories anymore to convey.

So "just eat it or starve it".

The only "transformational power" you as reader posses at this point is "fandom" like the gruvians are doing it or by supporting a competitor in hopes the author will blindly copy aspects he seem to be popular from this competitor for his own work. These are the game rules of our world.

There is only one energy existing. Energy cannot be destroyed nor created only transformed. This energy is the love of our creator to all his creations, which includes concepts, materials, living beings, atoms, space, you and me, we as part truths of our creator are also able to love concepts, materials, living beings, atoms, space, you and me.

Hate or preceived ship hate is thereby transformable into love, in other words, it looks on the surface level as it would be different or the opposite “energy/emotion” to love, but it is not, it is an expression of love and it contains love, on enery level it cannot be differentiated from love.

So why are they preceived differently? Hate is the self love expression after the exposure of “things” which are endangering your sense of truth, justice, your mental, psychiological, physical health or those of others/ the community, your beliefs, the values you stand for (since you are an expression of those). The protection against these triggers can be achieved by minimizing exposure, make aware of it, correcting, critizing it to creat awareness in the creators of the manga for instance or in the fans of these creations in order to change their perspective on it, to align our beliefs, so that they would creat happiness for their figures and destroy unhealthy realtionship representation as goals in this and futrue works of art.

Consequential, People are not!!!!! hating your ship because they are loving another ship, but because they love themselves, which includes their values, which your ship is (yet) not embodying.Therefore, your question why they attack your ship and your question whether they want or are wiling to hurt your shippers feelings is INCORRECT, as incorrect as your assumption they are just salty that gruvia is canon or has more shown time “you call it “development””. Your ship attacked their feelings, and they are protecting their feelings.

There are universal healthy relationships standarts, it is known that love starts with self love, we all should instinctively know what this is if we see it. If you see opposite values portrayed as self love, love, healthy, then your body will protect you from it by expressing self love, aka hate towards it.

 Friendship is also an expression of love it is the love which supports each other to increase happiness and reduce suffering by many means, courtship includes some more means, therefore it is build upon friendship. Only if Juvia and Gray are happy as individuals, friends to each other, they can be happy as couple.

If you or I would be a good friend, we would tell him or her or their fictional construct, since they are not living beings, the harsh truth/critize him/her/it when necessary if he/she/it behaved inappropiate/bad against her/his/its/our own best interest, potential, growth, future, self concept. Since We would  BELIEVE in an improvement potential and if we value her/his/its happiness or the happiness of others he/she/it hurted by her/his/its actions/behaviour or beliefs which we would try to restore or support by “critizing him/her/it” to put her or him or it back on track.

Since there is one track! and we are not normalizing unhealthy behavious as a “new track”, like Mashima tried to redefine the definition of “true love” in his manga, which is a really toxic one and not true.

Since you and I would be no friend, if we would withdraw it/them the opportunity to expand their knowledge, perspective, growth, becoming a better human/construct/character and therefore getting more chances and opportunites for happiness by sharing our honest maybe not so pretty sounding perspective on them.

We would be an even worse friend if we would justify their situation since they would end up in a prolonged stuck unhappy situation (destroying continuesly their self esteem to be able to creat happiness for themselves) which will decrease their chances of happiness in the short and long run and increase their suffering.

 But this is what you are doing gruvians.

And as mentioned in one of my previous posts, as long as you gruvians are “loving” them as they are with their dynamic and shortages, the author won’t change a darm thing (like letting Juvia interact with more femal characters in a nice way).

YOU would be the reason to prolong Juvias isolation, little friend time, weak relationships to others, her dependency on Gray, her continuesly decrease in self reliance, you are creating their suffering by loving dramatic self injuring, self sacrificing life and death scenes as “prove of their love to each other”,  their decression, their codependency, how they are disrespectfully treated as comedic relief characters through out the series without consistent character development. You won’t give Juvia the change to mature emotionally, if you find her “cute”, “adorable” how she acts like a bipolaric disordered person, a childlike person, a stalker, a love obsessed heart eyed person. You are destroying Grays potential to also have impactful interaction with other femal characters, due to loving Juvias jealousy overreactions or minimizing their gravity. You are destroying Grays life choices in shaming him for “not loving Juvia back as she deserves”, or not priorizing her over other guildmates or fighting a dark guild while leaving her in the rain...

I do not get it. (Also there is a contradiction... a hating achive in which hate is getting deleated? April,april?)

The former generation of anti gruvians had to correct and protect themselves from accusations which saw them only as "haters/ as unhappy people, as trolls who had nothing better to do, than to spread negativity". We had to explain the difference between our analysis and "hate speech" (which was going around back then as a global internet issue) which gave our remarks/posts an additional value than just hating the fav canon ship of fairytail/ of other shippers ("to attack their feelings/happiness"), which lead to our most hated discussion whether fantasy media is influencing the real world or not and whether it should therefore fallow its realistic standarts/rules. We were taken seriously even by some gruvia shippers because we were not just bashing a fictional concept but explaining Why! we as human beings with experiences or a healthy world view cannot tolerate the messages portrayed in "gruvia". Our legitimation was based on this.

I noticed that the internet world creates people who as long as they feel safe enough or who can claim a successful aganda ( which was successful in the past) want "to play activists" and that My "defense went through post" was recently getting attention again.

And I feel the urge to write this reminder / give the historial context which lead to this post back then it was important since anti gruvians were blocked and demonized by stigmas like " being an anti" "a hater", and therefore everything we wrote had not to be taken seriously or even worse there were blogs dedicated to "Warn against us" and "which highly recommanded others to blacklist us/ even suggesting to report certain blogs to tumblr to get them blocked for good", "calling all our content hate blogs/anti blogs/ship war blogs", also our main blogs. (There were even tutorials around showing step by step guides "how to do it")

I do not wish that my "defense went through post" will be used as false safety that actually hating and bashing gruvia (which is ok since it is an fictional construct without feelings as long as humans are not getting attacked) will be safe.

Always remember that what you publish will be an expression of your character, can be used against you or your ship community you love (grayza and graylu fandoms were attacked as penalty due to some shippers which were also outspoken antigruvians). And that it is also true that if you spend too much time on things you dislike without getting any empowerment through it/higher purpose/validation after irritation/ steam release, it can also affect you negatively, also which kind of language you are using frequently will shape your habbits, your self image and image in general.

In case, (which at this starting point cannot be known) this is just another attempt to let anti gruvians look like "haters", to creat an opportunity to discredit their content or former content... Don't.