Vanilla Ice Creamâs Infinite Possibilities
If you are reading this ice cream blog, odds are that Chef Michael Laiskonis has the dream job you never knew existed. Chef Laiskonis divides his time between running the Chocolate Lab and experimenting with ice cream formulation at New Yorkâs Institute of Culinary Education (ICE), where he has been the Creative Director since 2012. He occasionally teaches courses there, which is how we met last June. Chef Laiskonis was kind enough to agree to the following interview, which took place in the Chocolate Lab this past September.
A self-described âpastry-chef-by-accidentâ, Chef Laiskonis is originally from Detroit, where during a break from pursuing a fine arts degree he took a job at his roommateâs brotherâs bakery in the suburbs and âwhat started as something I could do quickly became something I was compelled to doâ.
He ascended the culinary ladder quickly. Newfound passion and a baseline culinary skillset got him hired at a small fine dining restaurant in Detroit where he built the pastry program from scratch, then several years later he was hired as Pastry Chef at Detroitâs Tribute, where he earned repeated national recognition. Chef Laiskonis then âsomehow found himselfâ as the Executive Pastry Chef at New Yorkâs Le Bernardin, where he stayed for eight years, during which time he was awarded the James Beard Foundation award for Outstanding Pastry Chef in 2007.
Chef Laiskonisâ humility belies the methodical approach he applies in his work, and the curiosity and passion that drive it. Yet to hear Laiskonis tell it, heâs continued to stumble into amazing new projects and roles, including being offered the opportunity to run the Chocolate Lab at ICE, where he now works 40 hours a week (âtechnically part timeâ) in addition to all the other things he does.
Saturday session. #ICEChocolateLab pic.twitter.com/8rUoosYa2v
â Michael Laiskonis (@mlaiskonis) January 28, 2017
As for all those other things? Laiskonis came to ICE to test ideas he had been stockpiling in notebooks for years. In his words, âI wanted to create a situation where I could slow down, think one thought to its complete end.â He also guest lectures, studies chocolate history, helps with pastry curriculum development, works on marketing projects for ICE, occasionally shares his thoughts at Lucky Peach, and oh by the way he is also an ice cream wizard. Maybe thinking âjust a fewâ thoughts to their complete ends would be more accurate. But two stand out above the others:
âIce cream and chocolate compete for my nerd sensibilities⌠and who knows how many iterations of chocolate ice cream Iâve done even within the last year or two to find just the right balance of flavor and textureâ
The following interview is heavily edited from its original form. Many thanks to Chef Laiskonis for his generous time and commitment to sharing the knowledge he continues to create.
CM: Where did your relationship with ice cream start, and how has it changed over time?
ML: If we go back to when I was about 15 years old, my very first job was actually scooping ice cream. I never would have believed I would have gotten into the science of what I was working with at the time.
Ice cream graffiti - Clawson, Michigan. pic.twitter.com/4DT2Npy22X
â Michael Laiskonis (@mlaiskonis) October 25, 2016
As a pastry chef coming up in the mid-to-late 90s, there were a lot of very interesting things happening in pastry, both aesthetically and technologically. Already by that time desserts started to become complex, multi-component plates with lots of contrasting flavors, textures, and temperaturesâmore than just a slice of cake and some berries on a plate. Over the course of my career itâs almost become taken for granted that desserts will have some sort of frozen element.
Back at the first restaurant job I had I basically created a pastry chef position out of thin air. We were buying a lot of our dessert components from other places and if we had ice cream on a dish it came from the grocery store next doorâHäagen Dazs, only the bestâso when we started making ice cream, all I had at my disposal was one and later two of those canisters that you put in the freezer for 12 hours and it does a quart at a time. In hindsight they probably were all pretty icy given the technology we were usingâbut we also had no idea about formulation.
It wasnât until maybe five years later, well into my first full-time pastry chef position at Tribute, when I started to pay a little more attention to formulation. Certainly balancing fat, balancing sugarsânot only for sweetness but slowly beginning to wrap my head around the functionality of sugars and how they affect texture.
As a young cook, at least at that time, you hear people say ice cream is just frozen crème anglaise. And when youâre incorporating other flavors you just add other flavors on top of that.
I was stuck in that rut of equating an ice cream base with crème anglaise, still using a lot of egg yolks, until even five years ago, about the time I was leaving Le Bernardin. I was teaching one of my first âice cream technologyâ classes, and one of the exercises I did was making 5 or 6 ice creams of varying fat content, some with egg yolks, some without. I tasted those side by side and realized, wow, my go-to formula (which included egg yolks) tastes like an omelet. So I very quickly shed that notion that egg yolks necessarily equate with quality. Custard ice cream can be wonderful and perfect, but other flavors come out so much brighter and cleaner when theyâre not hiding under all that egg yolk.
CM: What ice cream are you eating right now, besides your own?
ML: I have to say, I donât get out a lotâbut one of my weekly guilty pleasures was Coolhaus ice cream sandwiches. They nail the textures of both the ice cream and the sandwich, which is basically under-baked chocolate chip cookies. I also got obsessed with mochi ice cream , and thatâs still something that I canât have enough of around.
CM: Why is it important to understand ice cream formulation? I usually start by explaining how sorbet works, because itâs basically sugar and water. Then in your class, you mentioned that you like to add things like non-fat milk powder to sorbets sometimes, so you can sort of build up to ice creamâs complexity.
ML: Once you have a deeper understanding of how ice cream works it does three things. It helps you create better product, it helps you fix mistakes, and then finallyâthe very elusive benefit to all thisâit the potential to create something new. I am constantly telling people they have to know the composition of their ingredients, how they function, and then how to make adjustments.
The way you expressed it is perfect, thatâs how I love to get people started thinking about itâstart with sorbet, which is basically water and sugar. Then when you get up to ice cream you have other things, fats and proteins, and you need to understand how those function. I always point people towards the material that fruit puree companies put out, because theyâve figured this out. I remember one of the first times I saw the parametric recipe chart from a company like Boiron, it was amazingâand they come out with new ones every couple of years, readily accessible on their websites.
I have experience in larger operations where people want a silver bulletâone base syrup that will work across the board. Itâs difficult, but possible. Iâve always preferred the bespoke syrup for each individual flavor, because itâs going to give you the best results. Another area that virtually everyone has a problem with until they understand how it works is alcoholâ âcan I put vodka in that? What about bourbon?â. Once you understand freeze point depression and molecular weight you can quantify all these things.
CM: It feels like weâre in something of an ice cream renaissance right nowâwhy is this happening today?
ML: You know, I have several yearsâ worth of confectionary and ice cream industry trade magazines from about the turn of the century to the 1920s. The ice cream technology is the sameâitâs a scrape-surface heat exchanger. This stuff has existed for decades, if not a century at this point. Ice cream formulation hasnât really changed either, but pastry chefs working in fine dining restaurants were never exposed to that information. Within the last ten years itâs become something that people are much more aware of. In other words, fewer people are saying âice cream is just frozen crème anglaiseâ.
There were two big watershed resources for me. The first was a specific book from Spanish pastry chef Oriol Balaguer, where he laid information out about ingredients and their uses, composition, and function in recipes. That book was one of the first placesâweâre talking maybe 2002âI saw this information translated into language pastry chefs could understand.
The second was, a few years after moving to New York I was exposed to some material from a class given by Olivier Bajard. Olivier was one of the first pastry chefs to be part of this circuit of chefs who do classes around the world, a few days at a time, and this has been going on for maybe 15-20 years. That was always a great way to get into a lot of material.
I had written a little bit about ice cream on my own blog circa 2008-2009, and as a result I ended up connecting with Cesar Vega, a food scientist at Mars who essentially got his PhD in ice cream. Heâs a great resource, and passionate about gastronomy. When you create that initial relationship, the chefâthe practitionerâand the scientist, who has a lot of theoretical knowledgeâyou donât always speak the same language. It took us a while to create a dialog where he wasnât frustrated by my questions, and where I could understand his answers. He still doesnât make it easy for meâIâll come to him with a question or a problem and heâll basically say âhereâs the experiment I would do, you figure it outâ.
The pursuit of knowledge for both chocolate and ice cream is a situation where the more you know, the more you realize you donât know. I realized that itâs really easy to make chocolate. And itâs really easy to make ice cream. Itâs really difficult to make good chocolate and really difficult to make good ice cream.
The goal of small batch anything is to make the product better than the big commercial guys. Thatâs also difficult. Now, sure, industrial ice cream, industrial chocolateâthey have to be dumbed down to a certain extent, to achieve consistency in the product and dial in very specific attributes. On a small scale, how do I achieve consistency, control for specific attributes, and not have to dumb it down? Thatâs where the creation of spreadsheets to look at recipes comes into playâwe can fine tune recipe components to give us predictability and find the best possible formulation within whatever the constraints may be.
CM: What do you bring to ice cream thatâs different because of your background in pastry more generally?
ML: Thereâs a series collaborations between Morgensternâs and various chefs and right now itâs with Paul Liebrandt, whoâs probably one of the most creative chefs in New YorkâI think this week itâs sunchoke ice cream with strawberry hibiscus sorbet. Some of those things are only going to come from someone whoâs been thinking about how flavors interact for a long time. Â
Menu development: 'Peas and Carrots' - pea crumble, carrot sorbet, citrus cream.
A post shared by Michael Laiskonis (@mlaiskonis) on May 21, 2015 at 4:15am PDT
But you can be the most creative person in the world and just throw some things into an ice cream machine and itâs just not going to work. Thereâs a clichĂŠ that pastry chefs are the scientists of the kitchen, but really itâs all about predicting the future. If youâre making a soup you can tweak it, adjust it, change it from start to finish. But for a cake, I canât take it out half way through and then decide âOh! It needs more baking powderâ. I have to put it in the oven and know exactly whatâs going to happen 30 minutes later when I take it out. And the same thing applies to ice cream. To a certain degree weâre already hard-wired to look at these things from a mathematical point of view.
The whole last 10-15 years of cooking was about adapting things that industrial food scientists already knew but werenât creative enough to do anything with. When you give tools like hydrocolloids to a chef whoâs creative, you have a new library of textures and ways to deliver flavor.
CM: People play around with savory ice creamsâhave you ever made an ice cream that you felt like crossed a line or went too far into that territory?
ML: Maybe Iâve never been the person to push those boundaries. I almost hate saying the word but sometimes I find myself being fairly conservative. The older I get, when it comes to chocolate, Iâm less prone to throw just anything in there, for example. I want to taste the flavors of the cacao beans.
Fresh cacao pod, after a long voyage from its home in the Davao region of the Philippines. #ICEChocolateLab pic.twitter.com/s8YhEdIlt0
â Michael Laiskonis (@mlaiskonis) March 10, 2017
Having said that, thereâs always more that I can do to experiment, using things like maltodextrins, orâto show you what a geek I amâI got an invitation to some webinars on glucose production and the functionality of glucose. I use glucose every day, so I had a free opportunity to learn. Iâve been aware of maltose for years but never really used it as an ingredient in something, and just this morning I was learning more about maltose. Itâs already got me thinking, because it has half the sweetness but the same freeze point depression as sucroseâthat could be interesting.
One thing I also never really explored, and itâs just always been one of those weird concepts to wrap your head around, is âhot ice creamâ using methyl cellulose, which make things firmer as they get warmer, and then melt when they cool off. Really bizarre. I havenât really seen anyone playing with that in several years, but it was a thing for a while.
CM: What comes next for you? Do you have any idea where all this work is headed?
ML: I donât know. First and foremost, if Iâm not learning something myself every day then thatâs a waste. I realize I could open an ice cream or gelato shop tomorrow and probably do okay. Iâm getting there with chocolate, but I still donât know where thatâs going.
Everything that I do is about sharing, whether itâs one-on-one with a cook in a consulting capacity, or for a client helping them perfect what theyâre working on, or in a classroom, or on social media, wherever it isâIâm not keeping this for myself. Half the fun is sharing it with other people.
Iâve had many different book ideas and the longer I procrastinate, people keep coming out with the idea I wouldâve done. It happened this week. Ali Bouzari handed me a copy of his book that dropped yesterday, and itâs brilliantâthere are no recipes in it. Itâs called Ingredient. A food book without recipes is very difficult to sell to a publisher. It basically looks at the building blocks of all foodâwater, sugars, carbohydrates, proteins, fats, lipids, etcâand attributes personalities to them. He writes in plain language how they function, how different processes work. I didnât have the exact idea, but thatâs the spirit of something Iâve wanted to do. Now I can cross that one offâhe did a better job than I wouldâve done, greatâonto the next idea.
In general, I like the approach of taking something very simple that we can all relate to and breaking it down, whether itâs ice cream, gelatin, pectin, things like that. These are things that, in a pastry kitchen, we work with every day, but to some extent we just follow a rote recipe to make it work rather than understanding how it works. I can sit down and create an ice cream recipe from scratch without ever tasting it and know Iâm going to get close to a good result. Iâd like to adapt that to other preparations. Bread is something that works easily with that, because we already think about bread as percentage-based. But working with chocolate, and post-manufacturing applications, itâs hard to look at a ganache recipe and really get a sense of the ingredient proportions. This is something again where, just like ice cream, the fat, the water, your nonfat solids, it all has to be in a fairly narrow balance to get it to do what you want it to do.
Knowledge is the power to be able to make things better and to improvise and adapt to situations. To me thatâs as exciting and fulfilling as creating something thatâs never been created before. My to-do list now is probably infinitely long, longer than Iâll be able to ever accomplish. My perspective now is okay, whether itâs chocolate or ice cream or gummy bears, whatever it isâhow do I take advantage of people who have done this for decades, where this is their expertise? We could do a lot to innovate gummy bears, but I want to nail the original first. Once you do that, then playing with flavors is easy. Iâm not really interested in creating anything âAvant Gardeâ, I just want to make it the best it can possibly be.
For meâit sounds really boringâbut there are infinite possibilities even just with vanilla ice cream. And that could keep me interested for quite a long time.
Chef Laiskonis was generous enough to share not one but *five* ice cream recipes with Churning Man readers, linked here for now. They are not for the faint of heartâthey yield larger quantities home machines can likely handle (so you might need to scale them down), and some call for specialized ingredients. Email me if you want to try them but donât know where to start.Â