i decided to make a tumblr for talking about games so that the other tumblr isnt an awful experience for people who just want to talk about games. I make ttrpgs - https://cardboardhyperfix.itch.io/ - cover photo: doodle from the comic I am making.
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in general i do really like when the 'boundaries for rules and penalties for breaking the rules' are (correctly) understood as part of 'how the game is played' in competitive games. ppl always get really snippy about this kind of thing but i lay firmly on the side of "the spirit of the rules does not exist, the rules exist as they are enforced". and so anyway i just noticed you forgot your pact trigger earlier and you just tapped out for a spell, so im putting that on the stack now.
Actually! This is now the correct enforcement of the rule at competitive REL. Like any other missed trigger, the player is given the opportunity to put it on the stack at the point that they realize it's been missed, though they of course get warned (as does their opponent) for failure to maintain game state. So the correct way to catch your opponent out for forgetting a pact trigger *is* to get them to tap out some mana, then call over a judge and point out their pact trigger, at which point they cannot pay and lose.
You can actually see pro tour, magic world cup, and mythic invitational winner Andrea Mengucci do *exactly* this to (also) pro tour, magic world cup, and mythic invitational winner Simon Nielsen (mentioned just to point out even pros mess up, not glaze them for no reason) in this video (timestamped, it happens over the next 2 minutes). The exact situation mentioned in the OP. So Miss vitreous-sight has it entirely correct *and* that's actually the exact advice given by Mengu.
There's a whole book or even multiple sagas to be written around the question of "why do adventurers exist in this world at all". I hate the term "murderhobo" with a passion but there is a lot, a lot to talk about what kind of society hires wandering questing warriors to solve problems and where do those "adventurers" come from and what role do they have in society.
Lots of people have talked about this but I would like to point out this essay on ACOUP that starts with seemingly a semi-related matter (why gold coins in fantasy don't make sense in historical societies) and ends with a very revealing insight... gold isn't the reward that "fantasy adventurers" should seek. It should be power and influence, noble titles, a comission in the local army, land.
This week on the blog I want to take a brief detour into discussing historical coinage, particularly in the context of modern fantasy and ro
As usual and expected from a blog titled A Collection Of Unmitigated Pedantry, it does take a long (but very interesting and worth reading) read to get to that point, but I'll point out the interesting thing in this context:
Here, "Big Man" is a stand in for the nobles and rulers and landowners of agricultural societies. While more urbanized and industrial societies may have a use for coinage, what do these societies based in interpersonal relationships can give you as a reward for a quest, as a reward for solving a problem? Social power; a title, a relationship, a promise of support. And not only that, but this isn't often a reward but a necessity in the first place. To have a horse, to have armor and weapons and the means to wage war (go adventuring) in the first place, you don't go to the medieval store and buy them with 20gp, you often have people supporting you and even , you are a man-at-arms, part of a noble retinue a noble yourself, maybe part of a holy order, or in more early-modern scenario, part of a mercenary group.
However, this doesn't happen often in fantasy because of these reasons reasons:
The idea of the selfless hero who doesn't choose glory or fame but instead continues questing endlessly to do good or defeat an ultimate evil. Making a hero have a patron feels like selling out (but I will address that)
Even with those characters who aren't selfless and would probably take the power and titles, it seems to tie them down to a place or obligation and this makes adventures boring (but I will address that!)
Dungeons & Dragons
People say that every generic fantasy world is inspired by Tolkien but I will argue that he's the grandfather of modern fantasy, the father is Gary Gyax. The ideas baked in D&D have been present in ALL over popular fantasy for decades now, even more prominently than Tolkien (and of course D&D 'borrowed' a lot from Tolkien). Now what this means in this particular case is the idea of wandering "adventurers" solving problems for "gold" in "dungeons", often with the undertone of a frontier or decaying civilization full of monsters and bandits to be killed and tamed into civilization (some other people have written about this better than me)
Nevertheless, even beyond the setting implications, there are deep gameplay implications that have filtered down popular fantasy. Dungeons and Dragons is a survival/combat game. It's a survival game because you have to rely in your abilities and limited equipment (which you buy with gold) to survive in a dungeon, through combat. Of course you can do a lot more than that, but this is the core of the game, what it was designed for: buy equipment, go into a dungeon, survive, get treasure, use it to buy equipment, go into another dungeon. Here "dungeon" can mean many things... combat, travel, puzzles, but the loop is clear.
There is no "gain a patron and get social capital" loop in the game, though it might be simulated, it isn't fun. So there is a lack of interest on exploring this, or really, anything beyond the "quest". And since again, it's D&D, not Tolkien, that shapes most popular fantasy, we see popular fantasy repeating this deeply baked in idea of fantasy once and again and again and again. Sometimes even making them into actual, literal points inside the world: making literal worlds with Adventurer Guilds and Dungeons and Quests and sometimes even Levels and XP as part of society (they're only lacking the dice... and that's because D&D is also the main influence behind videogames).
Is EVERY SINGLE FANTASY WORLD like this? No, not at all. But I want to talk about where does this idea of "gold" and "adventures" comes from, and it's NOT medieval or historical inspiration, and it's NOT even Tolkien. It's D&D.
I told you I would address the idea that having a patron or a story based on one's social standing could be boring or at least incompatible with "adventure", and there are many cases that I could point out, but I want to point to a very interesting one: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar, el Cid Campeador.
El Cid is both a real person who lived a very interesting life and a folklore figure, and both are very interesting as inspirations for fantasy "adventurers". El Cid was considered (by the social standards of the time) as an ideal knight and a tragic figure. But his whole life is defined by the society he lived in and, as any knight (or noble warrior in general), how he walked the interrelationships of his society; his back and forth of loyalty and betrayal with King Alfonso, his loss and recovery of honor, his service to the Muslims rulers of Zaragoza which indeed gave him his title (these constant intercultural interactions were very common in medieval Iberia, which makes it a very unique and underused setting inspiration), his rulership over Valencia. Over time, El Cid changes and seeks patrons and his changes in his social status (and his dependence on them) are a major part of the story both in real life and fictionalizations.
But this doesn't mean that the life of El Cid is boring or lacking in combat and travels. He gets "adventures" all over the place, he travels and fights over the whole breadth of Iberia, he has countless legends to his name. He wasn't a "murderhobo" that got gold from each adventure and then went to the store to buy a new sword, he took command of armies and he even took power and governed his own realm, but his life wasn't lacking from excitement, he didn't just sit and became a paper-pusher. I need to be very clear I'm not saying El Cid was a hero, I'm saying he led an exciting, interesting life, worthy of most fictional adventurers, but he wasn't just going from place to place asking for gold... well, technically yes, but this involved his status, his honor and his place in society. Which makes for a rich story.
And he's not the only one, Medieval Iberia is full of stories of these characters that navigated the social networks of their time, a place where cultures interacted with each other in multiple complex ways and kingdoms and taifas often employed these wandering "adventurers". Maybe if you want to get inspired to write about adventurers, don't look to D&D for inspiration. Read about Al Andalus sometime.
sometimes you just can't beat the game because the amulet of yendor is at the bottom of the Swirling Swamp for some reason. Normally you could get the genie to wish it back for you, but you can't get into the castle without your insignia ring, and that fucker disappeared right off your finger back in Molag Amur.
I just did a 4 player Pokemon Emerald Archipelago this weekend, and it felt like this. I kept going to the next place you are supposed to go in the story, talking to someone, and then realizing "Oh, i don't have that actually. I know i should, but I'm doing something special which means i don't have it and i cant find it."
Example: I went all the way to Steven in the cave before going "oh wait, I cant do this because i dont have your Letter opps, let me go on an exhaustive journey to find it."
New alignment system just dropped! Instead of Law vs Chaos and Good vs Evil, there’s Ninja vs Pirate and Vampire vs Werewolf. It’s less about your personal behaviour and more about your coordinates in the ancient cosmic battle.
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i say this a lot, but it's always really striking how many people assume that like, criticism necessarily comes from a place of moral outrage and personal vitriol, and that therefore when i make a comment about something's political positions i'm "fighting a fight" against it. i literally just enjoy thinking about art and verbalizing those thoughts is useful in organizing and refining them
I find the "rules are toys" framing of tabletop RPG design useful for several reasons:
The idea that system matters is reducible to recognising that toys have affordances; while there is of course no "wrong" way to play with a toy, no amount of open-mindedness will readily fit a bicycle through a basketball hoop.
It puts a line under one of the main objections to the "why not just freeform it?" thing; if folks are discussing how to make or modify a toy to achieve a particular set of affordances, blundering into the conversation going "why bother with toys when you can Use Your Imagination?" is unlikely to be well received!
Sometimes it's helpful to take a step back from a critique of a particular system and ask yourself: is this set of game mechanics really broken or incomplete, or have I mistaken a bicycle for a basketball?
Sometimes I like to read the Forum section of old Dragon magazines to see what the current clack was back in the day, and I ran into this bit in a letter in issue 100 from 1985 from who I believe to be game designer Mike Selinker at the age of ~18. He's talking about playing a heavily modified and non-violent version of AD&D.
"But it must be fully comprehended to be altered. Otherwise, the results of change will never be noticed. The only way to understand the game is to play it, at least for a short amount of time, as it is written. After some experience with the game, you may feel your creative impulses suggest changes in the system. You may wish to borrow from other games, from other gamers, and from other sources of literature. By all means, do it. But at least know what it's like to play without the changes you and your players wish to install in the game. It will make the changes that much more rewarding."
I think there are many within my sphere of influence who will vibe with at least some of what young Michael is saying here.
I like this. Reminds me of a thought ive had about other creative mediums. Do you have to have read every genre defining sci fi story before you write sci fi? No. But you should read some of them. It really helps to break the rules if you understand the rules in the first place, is how I've usually phrased it (which expressed much better above)
there's something really philosophically beautiful about how morrowind, as a game, is decisively still in active development. genuinely crazy that douglas goodall just quietly came back and started writing quests for the game again while the tamriel rebuilt effort, which has been working since pre-morrowind release, keeps on rolling
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I love the way card games exist. Here is a set of rules for manipulating a set of objects. With practice, it will be fun. You can find the rules in a book, but the only way to truly understand them is to engage with another person who also knows the rules. There is something so secret about it.
And there are so many and many of them use a standard set of 52 cards that humanity has had for hundreds of years. And you can play games that old and feel the same connection backwards in time one can when reading a poem from the 1500s.
And different variation can exist, and it is so fun how you can talk about different rules. I've played Rummy three different ways, but everyone teaching me still called it Rummy.
And the beauty of having a deck of cards and people and time and going "want to play?" There's been a few times in my life where ive said "who wants to play hearts? We have four people here." And it worked! We all knew Hearts and could just start playing it together. The equivalent of a game utility knife, a deck of cards has a game for every situation.
the problem with fantasyposting on here is the amount of people who try to "um actually" you on the basis that your post doesn't comply with the rules/mechanics/worldbuilding of dungeons and dragons
being a Bandit is pretty great. Just got a new place with a couple friends, in Doghammer Cave (long history of hammering dogs there). It's pretty nice for the area! Zero bedrooms zero bathrooms, but it's got a falling spikeball trap in the entrance and a couple big linear multipurpose rooms full of barrels. I put a couple gold coins in each barrel. Really makes it feel like home.
Our leader is Klade Doghammer (long history of hammering dogs). He's the only one of us with a name. He likes to sit in the last room (our house has a last room because it's linear) at a desk with a half-finished page of notebook about how he'll get revenge on the town someday. My best friend Female Archer Bandit said the people in the town don't even consider us human. She says if you stay a bandit long enough they kill you for money. Sometimes when she and I are alone on watch late at night I get a funny feeling in my bandit parts. I think I just heard the falling spikeball trap go off. We didn't invite anyone over today but I hope it's someone friendly. Being a bandit is pretty great.
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The really funny part about these interminable "why does the game's culture of play MATTER if everybody is HAVING FUN" arguments is that they always ultimately boil down to dismissing the fact that being treated as a human Xbox is miserable for the GM by framing the GM as a lone malcontent in an otherwise-harmonious group – yet if the GM in question actually followed the thread of that argument to its logical conclusion and removed themselves, in a culture of play that expects the GM to do all the work, there is no game.
continuously wild to me that “you will be better at a game if you know the rules” and “if you hate the rules of a game, you might better enjoy playing a different game” always seem to make people so mad.
It's a bit weird yeah.
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