please be kind to trans folks

-happens sometimes

-means are in a comfortable enough space where they can question their identity and arrive at a conclusion that works for them

-often find our new things about themselves and how they express and relate to their gender

-doesn’t mean there’s some hidden force trying to make people trans

-is not an excuse to make hrt and surgeries harder to access

I’m happy you sent this ask, because it’s a perfect place to talk about how someone can get hurt, feel wronged, and become susceptible to extremist recruiting.

First off, treat this as a simple yes or no question, asked with zero surrounding context, the platonic idea of penis preference if you will. “I don’t find penises attractive” is not a sentiment that makes you a TERF. You’re okay not liking them. My nonbinary wife doesn’t particularly like them, yet they are married to me (who has one) and we love each other more than anything in the world. 

In fact, in the abstract, I don’t like ‘em much either, and I own one! Ridiculous looking thing, wish I didn’t have to deal with it. A general dislike of genitals doesn’t make you a TERF… not by itself.

Now, here is where the critical thinking comes in, because if you posted something like that on Tumblr or something, it has a different context. You might not even know! It could be a totally innocent mistake, and it happens, and some women either get criticized in ways that makes them feel attacked, or actually attacked because you never know if what you post online is hitting someone on a bad day or a good day. 

The context first of all is, without any clarifying statements, saying you don’t like a genital could imply you’re reducing anyone with that particular set of genitals down to their genitals only. And it could result in either someone telling you it sounds TERFy (if they’re trying to be gentle) or calling you a TERF (if they’re out of spoons) because that’s what TERFs do. Here’s where it becomes a recruit pitch.

You say “I don’t like penises.” This doesn’t mean you’re saying you dislike trans women (not all of whom have penises anyway), but if you get the above lecture/yelling, a radfem can come along and empathetically agree how unfair it is that someone made you hurt for saying you don’t like a genital, and it’s not fair to tell a lesbian she has to sleep with a male or she’s a TERF and- OH WAIT A MINUTE!

Hold up, it looks like they were just being nice but wait wait, they just slid cozily from “it’s okay not to like a penis” to “anyone with a penis is male.” See that? Like a sleight of hand, once you’ve agreed with that premises, saying “I don’t like penises” suddenly becomes attached to “and anyone with a penis is male.”

Alright now in context, going back this kind of equivalency is so common with radfems that at this point saying you don’t like a genital is what we call a dogwhistle. It’s a phrase which is seemingly innocent, and can be innocent, which has been so widely appropriated by a hate group that it carries extra connotations in a certain context. Contexts like posting on Tumblr, which happens to have a particularly large trans population.

Now you can’t know every single dogwhistle because that’s the whole reason they exist - so normal people don’t spot someone’s bigotry and it looks like a disenfranchised group is getting angry over an innocent statement.

And lastly, which you probably already know, but generally not being interested in something doesn’t have to equate to disliking anyone with that trait, or even not being attracted to someone with that trait. I bring this up because the difference between a lesbian who just generally doesn’t like genital and a TERF is that the TERF things anyone with a penis is automatically bad and a male and probably reading this right now thinks I’m saying you have to have sex with men or like penises, somehow, despite saying exactly the opposite.

You may have a general preference, but in practice I’m sure you’ve already found a difference between “I am physically attracted to how this person looks” and “Holy shit I am in love this person is amazing and everything about them is beautiful.” If you haven’t had that experience yet, I can promise you some day you will. Not necessarily over genitals, but some day someone will come into your life and you’ll love every part of them whether or not it’s something you normally find abstractly attractive.

not to mention all the women doctors who see how much trans people benefit from gender affirming surgery.

Mutilation in terms of piercings and tattoos are usually non-threatening or obstructive and not used as a treatment for mental illness. Completely removing healthy body parts like breasts or genitals can have a severe impact on the health of the body and the surgeries themselves can be dangerous as well. Not to mention, bottom surgery and top surgery are not well documented and their success/recovery rates are not gauranteed.

There’s actually quite a few studies proving the exact opposite of your claim, suicide rates actually increase after gender reassignment surgeries. There’s plenty of videos and testimonies from trans women and men who regret getting it because of how painful and time consuming it is.

The problem is that transitioning is way too easy and the current laws make it possible for teens or other vulnerable people to mistakenly transition. The current methods of transitioning are very invasive and irreversible and have long term side effects that can affect the person’s quality of life, it’s completely unethical to suggest these methods to people who are suffering with a mental illness.

id also like to see the sources you got your claims from.

as infuriating and hurtful as terfs can be, it’s important to stay cool. we’re all scared of each other. we as a community need to strengthen our image by focusing on kindness and education.

as infuriating and hurtful as terfs can be, it’s important to stay cool. we’re all scared of each other. we as a community need to strengthen our image by focusing on kindness and education.

sex is the most physically intimate thing humans can do. it leaves you vulnerable. comfort is crucial to a positive sexual experience. if someone has trauma associated with a certain set of genitalia, or if they just aren’t ready for it yet, that’s valid and you have to respect that.

but i feel i also have to mention the incredible pain trans people feel when someone they care about rejects them because of the part of their body they resent the most. the seemingly obvious solution would be to disclose their identity before the relationship progresses, but that can be extremely humiliating. seeing someone you like prioritize body parts over who you really are is painful.

Sometimes the reason behind [a genital prefrence] is transphobic.

Literally, it never is. No one has ever had a ’genital preference’ in order to be transphobic. It has always been because of their sexuality.

If someone has trauma associated with a certain type of genitalia, or if they just aren’t ready for it yet

Or if they just aren’t attracted to that set of genitalia because some people just aren’t?

I don’t have trauma associated with vaginas. It’s not that I’m ‘just not ready’ to have sex with a person with a vagina. It’s that because of my sexuality -as a heterosexual woman- I am not attracted to vaginas in any capacity and there is no situation in which I would want or enjoy having sex with a person with a vagina.

That's not transphobic.

What you're saying -that they're just not ready for it- is conversion therapy rhetoric for gay men and lesbians. They've been told time and time again that their sexuality is unnatural and that they can ’unlearn’ their sexuality and be okay with heterosexual sex. That's homophobic and disgusting.

I also have to mention the incredible pain trans people feel when someone rejects them because of the part of their body they resent the most.

I 👏 DON’T 👏 FUCKING 👏 CARE 👏 HOW 👏 THEY 👏 FEEL 👏

Let’s get this out first: there are many trans women who like their dick. They (might) have dysphoria, but their dicks aren't always involved.

Is this what we’ve come to? ’Oh, you've rejected someone! Imagine how they must feel about that! They feel so much pain about being rejected over something like this!’ That’s just guilt-tripping and women have enough of that -‘give him a chance!’, ‘he’s a nice guy’, ‘what have you go to lose’, etc- to deal with, before you pile onto this. If someone isn’t attracted to you, they can reject you. If someone doesn’t like a certain part of you, they can reject you. And sure, you might be hurt by this but you shouldn’t be guilting people into dating you. All that does is cause other people to feel bad. Just accept the rejection and move on.

I am obese. People have probably turned me down, or not fancied asking me out, not because of my personality or ’who I am’ because simply because I am obese.

Does it hurt? Yes, of course. It hurts that someone sees this part of me and says ’I don't want to be with this person’. But I don't want to guilt people into dating me because I don't want to be with someone who doesn't love every single part of me and that includes the fact that I am obese.

Why would you want to be with someone who doesn't love every part of you? Why would you want to be with someone who just tolerates this part of you?

The seemingly obvious solution would be to disclose their identity before the relationship progresses, but that can be humiliating. Seeing someone prioritise body parts over who you really are.

It doesn't matter if it’s humiliating or not -you have to disclose it.

It doesn't matter if you feel that someone is going to prioritise body parts over ’who you really are’ -you have to disclose it.

It doesn't matter if it means that you are going to be rejected -you have to disclose it.

Stop with the disgusting guilt trip.

Empathise with other. Understanding others’ pain will make you a better person.

Yeah, it’s good to emphasis with others!

Empathise with the lesbians who are being guilt tripped and attacked because they're not attracted to dick.

Empathise with the gay men who are being labelled as ’TEHM’ for not being attracted to trans men.

Empathise with all the people who feel bad or guilty because they have a ’genital preference’ and so don't want to date a select group of people and are labelled transphobic for that. Who rejected someone because they weren't attracted to them and now basically being told that they shouldn’t have rejected someone because of a petty genital preference.

How must they feel?

What you have ACTUALLY argued here is that everyone should be bisexual to stop hurting everyone, yet it’s still apparently okay to have a ’genital preference’. What you are actually doing is making people feel guilty for rejecting literally anyone because they have the ’wrong genitals’. And that’s disgusting.

What you're trying to say is that it's okay to have a ’genital preference’, but that you shouldn't have one.

Yes, I wouldn’t date ‘trans men’ or ‘AFAB non-binary people’, but I also wouldn’t date ‘cis women’ for the exact same reason. It’s not because I’m transphobic -it’s because of my inherent sexuality which means that I’m not attracted to anyone of the female sex regardless of how they identify.

And sure, someone would be sad if I rejected them because rejection hurts. But they shouldn’t guilt me into dating them for any reason because I am not attracted to them and I don’t want to date them and I shouldn’t be made to feel bad about that. Actually, if they guilted me into dating them, I would KNOW I made the right decision because I’ve had two emotionally manipulative exs who’ve done just that and they both destroyed me.

when i said it’s ok to have a genital preference, i mean it’s okay. i’m sorry i didn’t mention that sometimes people just don’t like certain genitals and that’s chill, no matter what. it was my mistake for not listing that with the other reasons.

on the trans rejection bit: i didn’t mean that as a guilt trip. i wanted to express how it feels to be rejected for your body. my (poorly executed) point was that trans people are scared too. dating can be very hard. i should have ended my statement with “if you are turning down a potential partner, do so nicely”.

@thatkindoffeminist please stop twisting my words. in no way did i say that everyone should be attracted to everyone, that sexual assault is justified, or you have to be bisexual in order to not be transphobic. yes, admittedly the last paragraph reads as sort of guilt trippy, which was my fault, but you took it way out of line.

@gcdk i absolutely do not think everyone should be bisexual to save people’s feelings. i’m sorry if it came off that way.

@leathergreygoddess never once did i say people need therapy so they can have sex with trans people. my entire post was about the fact having a genital preference is OKAY. i am aggressively against conversion therapy of any kind, i am not a rapist, and i am not a cunt. please refrain from spreading transphobic misinformation about trans women.

Most women do. Partly because of socialisation and partly out of fear. Rejected men kill. Rejected men stalk. Rejected men rape.

If you look at some of the mountain of receipts on here, or the terfisaslur site, you'll see that no matter how gently women let these men down, the men react with indignation and rage.

Your post seems so reasonable, so calm, but we all know that's not what fetishistic men are like.

So yeah, I'm done being nice about it. You telling me it's okay to have a "genital preference"? Frankly it's insulting that you even for a second consider yourself the arbiter of what is and what isn't ok. Secondly my sexuality isn't a "preference", and thirdly the phrase "genital preference" implies that men and women look, act, feel, taste, kiss, fuck and love exactly the same except one has one set of genitals and the other has the other. Which is insulting again really, it plays into the idea of man and non-man.

A soldier with his genitals blown off (very common war injury) is not a woman, and a woman is not a dickless man.

My homosexuality is a positive trait, and I love women in a positive way, not because they are non-men. When I'm in bed with a woman I'm not thinking "thank goodness this isn't a man". I'm not thinking about men at all.

There are a million things I love about women and even if a man tried to copy them all he still wouldn't be a woman. Likewise there might be a million things I (or other lesbians) find off-putting about men, and trying to hide, change or excuse those things still won't make men become women.

Why would I (or any other lesbian) settle for a man with a fixation, a fetish for femininity, when there are real, amazing women walking around in the world?

i fully respect the fact you don’t want to date trans women and that your attraction isn’t a choice. just like with gender, you can’t choose your attraction.

the term “autogynephiles” is inaccurate for a majority of trans women. here’s a great video on it.

if you haven’t before, try talking to an average trans girl. i have a fair few trans friends and they are all pretty normal people. some have sex, some don’t. they’re just people.

yes, there are bad, or even evil, trans people in the world. but there are also bad and evil cis women. no group of people is comprised entirely of angels.

sex is the most physically intimate thing humans can do. it leaves you vulnerable. comfort is crucial to a positive sexual experience. if someone has trauma associated with a certain set of genitalia, or if they just aren’t ready for it yet, that’s valid and you have to respect that.

but i feel i also have to mention the incredible pain trans people feel when someone they care about rejects them because of the part of their body they resent the most. the seemingly obvious solution would be to disclose their identity before the relationship progresses, but that can be extremely humiliating. seeing someone you like prioritize body parts over who you really are is painful.

Sometimes the reason behind [a genital prefrence] is transphobic.

Literally, it never is. No one has ever had a ’genital preference’ in order to be transphobic. It has always been because of their sexuality.

If someone has trauma associated with a certain type of genitalia, or if they just aren’t ready for it yet

Or if they just aren’t attracted to that set of genitalia because some people just aren’t?

I don’t have trauma associated with vaginas. It’s not that I’m ‘just not ready’ to have sex with a person with a vagina. It’s that because of my sexuality -as a heterosexual woman- I am not attracted to vaginas in any capacity and there is no situation in which I would want or enjoy having sex with a person with a vagina.

That's not transphobic.

What you're saying -that they're just not ready for it- is conversion therapy rhetoric for gay men and lesbians. They've been told time and time again that their sexuality is unnatural and that they can ’unlearn’ their sexuality and be okay with heterosexual sex. That's homophobic and disgusting.

I also have to mention the incredible pain trans people feel when someone rejects them because of the part of their body they resent the most.

I 👏 DON’T 👏 FUCKING 👏 CARE 👏 HOW 👏 THEY 👏 FEEL 👏

Let’s get this out first: there are many trans women who like their dick. They (might) have dysphoria, but their dicks aren't always involved.

Is this what we’ve come to? ’Oh, you've rejected someone! Imagine how they must feel about that! They feel so much pain about being rejected over something like this!’ That’s just guilt-tripping and women have enough of that -‘give him a chance!’, ‘he’s a nice guy’, ‘what have you go to lose’, etc- to deal with, before you pile onto this. If someone isn’t attracted to you, they can reject you. If someone doesn’t like a certain part of you, they can reject you. And sure, you might be hurt by this but you shouldn’t be guilting people into dating you. All that does is cause other people to feel bad. Just accept the rejection and move on.

I am obese. People have probably turned me down, or not fancied asking me out, not because of my personality or ’who I am’ because simply because I am obese.

Does it hurt? Yes, of course. It hurts that someone sees this part of me and says ’I don't want to be with this person’. But I don't want to guilt people into dating me because I don't want to be with someone who doesn't love every single part of me and that includes the fact that I am obese.

Why would you want to be with someone who doesn't love every part of you? Why would you want to be with someone who just tolerates this part of you?

The seemingly obvious solution would be to disclose their identity before the relationship progresses, but that can be humiliating. Seeing someone prioritise body parts over who you really are.

It doesn't matter if it’s humiliating or not -you have to disclose it.

It doesn't matter if you feel that someone is going to prioritise body parts over ’who you really are’ -you have to disclose it.

It doesn't matter if it means that you are going to be rejected -you have to disclose it.

Stop with the disgusting guilt trip.

Empathise with other. Understanding others’ pain will make you a better person.

Yeah, it’s good to emphasis with others!

Empathise with the lesbians who are being guilt tripped and attacked because they're not attracted to dick.

Empathise with the gay men who are being labelled as ’TEHM’ for not being attracted to trans men.

Empathise with all the people who feel bad or guilty because they have a ’genital preference’ and so don't want to date a select group of people and are labelled transphobic for that. Who rejected someone because they weren't attracted to them and now basically being told that they shouldn’t have rejected someone because of a petty genital preference.

How must they feel?

What you have ACTUALLY argued here is that everyone should be bisexual to stop hurting everyone, yet it’s still apparently okay to have a ’genital preference’. What you are actually doing is making people feel guilty for rejecting literally anyone because they have the ’wrong genitals’. And that’s disgusting.

What you're trying to say is that it's okay to have a ’genital preference’, but that you shouldn't have one.

Yes, I wouldn’t date ‘trans men’ or ‘AFAB non-binary people’, but I also wouldn’t date ‘cis women’ for the exact same reason. It’s not because I’m transphobic -it’s because of my inherent sexuality which means that I’m not attracted to anyone of the female sex regardless of how they identify.

And sure, someone would be sad if I rejected them because rejection hurts. But they shouldn’t guilt me into dating them for any reason because I am not attracted to them and I don’t want to date them and I shouldn’t be made to feel bad about that. Actually, if they guilted me into dating them, I would KNOW I made the right decision because I’ve had two emotionally manipulative exs who’ve done just that and they both destroyed me.

when i said it’s ok to have a genital preference, i mean it’s okay. i’m sorry i didn’t mention that sometimes people just don’t like certain genitals and that’s chill, no matter what. it was my mistake for not listing that with the other reasons.

on the trans rejection bit: i didn’t mean that as a guilt trip. i wanted to express how it feels to be rejected for your body. my (poorly executed) point was that trans people are scared too. dating can be very hard. i should have ended my statement with “if you are turning down a potential partner, do so nicely”.

@thatkindoffeminist please stop twisting my words. in no way did i say that everyone should be attracted to everyone, that sexual assault is justified, or you have to be bisexual in order to not be transphobic. yes, admittedly the last paragraph reads as sort of guilt trippy, which was my fault, but you took it way out of line.

@gcdk i absolutely do not think everyone should be bisexual to save people’s feelings. i’m sorry if it came off that way.

@leathergreygoddess never once did i say people need therapy so they can have sex with trans people. my entire post was about the fact having a genital preference is OKAY. i am aggressively against conversion therapy of any kind, i am not a rapist, and i am not a cunt. please refrain from spreading transphobic misinformation about trans women.

Oh, right, aside from incels!

The worst part of it all? The phrasing ’genital preference’ because it’s not a preference or something you can change -it’s an innate sexuality.

the “not ready” comment was from my own experience, and only one of the many valid reasons someone could have for genital preference. i used to think i only wanted to have sex with afabs (assigned females at birth), but then i met my cis boyfriend. he was very kind and listened to me and respected my boundaries till we were both ready to have sex. i enjoyed it and now i know i’m attracted to any sex.

but listen to me: that is just my experience. it may not be yours, and that is fine. i am not suggesting you need to change in order to find someone attractive. i wasn’t ready to have sex with amabs, then i met a cis guy i liked, and i became ready. that’s all i meant by that comment. no conversion therapy.