Adeuyuu Enthusiast

“i’ll leave for you the final blow.”

till death do us apart.

But I love the contrast to Robin and Steve because I know Robin would never do that to Steve. Because they did start as equals. And they're much more in sync when it comes to morals and emotional maturity. These two comfort each other. That's the true beginning of their friendship, sitting on the bathroom floor making each other laugh.

Looking back on the relationships between each of the first years, it seems like Epel is one of the characters that very outwardly admires Yuu.

While Ace and Deuce are very protective of Yuu as shown in Book 4 and 6 when they worry about Yuu ending up deadly situations in places they cannot reach and in both their Book 7 dreams.

[I already made a post about ace and how he's very protective of yuu, grim, and ortho. i think its a good read]

On the other hand, Epel's relationship with Yuu is morso based in admiration that has grown throughout the books. Furthermore, their closeness goes hand in hand with Epel's character development.

Book 5 Development

At the start of Book 5 Epel didn't know much about Heartshackle beyond the spelldrive exhibition match and didn't really directly address Yuu for much of the chapter with most of their interactions being with the larger NRC performance group.

But I think Vil's overblot changes this. Epel had never actually faced down an overblot before. the pressure, the fear, the real possibility that you could die or watch someone else die. Those moments are not just about physical strength but also the emotional mental strength to stand up and fight rather than cower and hide. From this point on, Epel gains a deeper admiration towards Yuu and actually directly addresses them.

His compliments towards Yuu aren't based on physical strength but instead on those soft power skills that Vil has been desperately trying to get Epel to see. In acknowledging Yuu's strength of character in the face of death he is also showing how far he's come.

Book 6 and Beyond

After getting absolutely demolished by Styx, Epel sees yuu's frustrations with being weak and directly talks to them about it. Yuu's self doubts come to the forefront many times in the main story and time and time again Epel is one of the characters who always directly talks about feeling weak and cheers Yuu on. Whilst other characters don't necessarily say that Yuu is weak they don't explicitly address Yuu or even notice Yuu during those moments of weakness.

In Book 7, Yuu goes to say that they shouldn't be included in the permanent group of dream hoppers but it's Epel that refutes that assumption first.

I think it makes perfect sense that Pomefiore, a dorm that values strength beyond magic and physical strength would also be the one to have characters that admire Yuu's non-magical strengths. Like the fact that Yuu is canonically someone who is very good at adapting to changing circumstances and doesn't falter in the face of danger and is instead very reliable in critical moments.

In a way it reminds me of how Vil as a housewarden is able to see people's strengths and potential and uses that to push Epel and now Epel is using that to push Yuu.

I really appreciate the small details in the story that flesh out the different relationship the player/Yuu has with each of the characters. It is those details that make TWST feel alive.

aceyuu folk we were eatin' huh?

textless version

I agree season 5 needed higher stakes, and Will and Ted and Karen dying would’ve made sense. But no, Steve shouldn’t have died. It would’ve devastated Dustin, and I don’t know how he would’ve handled that after already losing Eddie, who he looked up to.

Steve is Dustin’s big brother. Even though they were fighting in season 5, they still cared about each other. Killing Steve right after Eddie would just be trauma stacking for the sake of it, not storytelling. Will dying would’ve brought the show full circle and it started with him disappearing, ending with him sacrificing himself fits. Just like el and Ted and Karen dying would make sense because how the hell do you survive after that attack?

I understand the need for higher stakes and god does Stranger Things 5 needed that but randomly killing off characters wouldn’t serve the purpose. Especially with Steve. When killing off characters we need to check on how this impacts the characters in the story. Steve’s death would majorly impact Dustin’s storyline.

I’ve seen people say that Steve should’ve died because he basically did nothing the entire season (even though his fighting with Jonathan was the catalyst to the Jancy breakup arc) and for the point of this post is the linchpin to Dustin’s entire Season 5 arc.

Without Steve, Dustin’s arc in Season 5 wouldn’t have worked. A lot of it is unhealthy coping mechanisms, not allowing himself to grieve, believing he couldn’t allow himself to be happy and idolizing Eddie to the point that the man he is remembering isn’t even the Eddie that really existed (which hurts him and also Steve). However, another chunk is his purposeful alienation of Steve that is caused by Eddie’s death.

There’s a reason why they keep showing Steve being concerned for Dustin (and not the Party eventhough they are also worried), it’s because Steve is inherently connected to Dustin’s quite frankly realistic fear. It’s not just about being afraid that his friends will die. It’s about how they can die. More specifically playing hero and risking themselves to protect Dustin.

Eddie died after putting himself in risk one time. Steve has put himself on the line many times and has suffered the physical consequences of it. In Dustin’s mind, it’s only a matter of time before Steve dies in a similar way to Eddie. So Dustin purposely shoves Steve away with cruel words so Steve wouldn’t risk his life for him like he’s done before. (There is also frustration on Dustin’s side, that he feels that Steve isn’t being smart and is stupidly risking his life adding fuel to the fire). It’s important that it’s Steve specifically, because Steve is another older male figure Dustin looks up to. Despite the many differences Eddie had to Steve, this is one similarity they share.

I actually do think there was a prime time for Steve to die and that was between Season 1-4. A giant window of opportunity to be frank. However, the minute Eddie died he essentially fulfilled what would have been the purpose of Steve’s death: a tragic hero’s death that would tug at people’s heartstrings and that would HEAVILY impact Dustin specifically. So what would be the point of killing Steve in season 5 if that purpose has already been fulfilled? Why are we going to repeat another arc where Dustin loses someone close to him, when he’s already in a bad spot. No, seriously? If we kill Steve in season 5, it just makes the entirety of Dustin’s storyline miserable.

This is a kid who already lost one older brother figure and then he loses another, the one he was even closer to. And to add salt to the wound the one he has been fighting with the past 18 months. If Steve doesn’t make up with Dustin before he died in this hypothetical Season 5 death, holy shit I actually think Dustin wouldn’t make it. Dustin would blame himself immensely, for pushing Steve away and not showing how much he really cared for him. You also need to remember that this is a Dustin that has very unhealthy coping mechanisms unlike the Dustin in the epilogue. That boy would not be able to healthily grieve the combined deaths of Steve and Eddie. Realistically I think he wouldn’t survive Season 5 after this.

It’s two deaths for the sake of angst but it doesn’t add more to Dustin’s character. It’s just more suffering. It’s just sad. We already know Dustin loves Steve (even if Steve doesn’t) so what’s the point of having a death scene to show what Dustin’s reaction would be?

Even if Steve’s death happens in the tower scene, and therefore after they made up, due to the events set up in the armory, it wouldn’t make sense for Dustin not to follow through. “You die, I die” right? The show has already set up that if Steve dies, Dustin dies too, a promise that Dustin initially made in Season 3 so why wouldn’t Dustin take those words to heart after Steve dies. It wouldn’t make sense for Dustin not to die with this already set up. It’s dark but that is what is implied. It’s a vow that they can’t live without the other. Even then, this still doesn’t eliminate that Dustin isn’t in a healthy place to grieve both Steve and Eddie at all during Season 5 even after he’s made up with Steve.

I think people fail to remember that above all Stranger Things has always been an optimistic show. It’s not Game of Thrones. It was always going to have a mostly happy ending. Killing two very important figures in Dustin’s life would’ve changed the character of Dustin irreparably. He wouldn’t be the bright eyed comedic character with a loveable heart anymore. But instead a deeply traumatized child who wouldn’t be able to move on. It would’ve shifted the mood of season 5 way too much.

It’s much more fulfilling for Steve and Dustin to make up and patch up their misunderstandings, reiterate how much they mean to one another and either die together or live together. It needs to be Steve who Dustin has this conclusion with because like I stated before Dustin’s fear and worry is tied to Steve’s actions specifically. Their endings are intertwined because their arcs are about how much they mean to one another. And it’s also a lot more hopeful.

I’m also going to briefly bring up El’s death, but I don’t have a problem with her dying as her ending. I just don’t like the way it was executed. A character death is an ending for a character but it is also the culmination of their arc. Like I stated, Steve’s would’ve been a hero’s death, deserving after all the redemption he’s done. I think if El would’ve died killing Vecna or hell even Dr. Kay who are now the representative figures of who caused her life to be such a traumatic hell then her death would’ve gone over a lot better. It would’ve been the victim of so much trauma finally getting the upper hand after everything. Her last breath and powers used to make sure no more harm can be done again by these people as her abusers and manipulators finally get their comeuppance.

But instead we got suicide and the message being that there was no possible way for the abused victim to live a happy normal life…Yeah El’s death was badly executed.

I agree though. If their plan was always to break up Jancy then they should’ve done so in Season 4. The conclusion in Season 5 wasn’t satisfying enough for a whole season of Jonathan and Nancy dancing around each other and Jonathan’s insecurities being unenjoyable to watch.

Surprise surprise, it's very different.

I agree season 5 needed higher stakes, and Will and Ted and Karen dying would’ve made sense. But no, Steve shouldn’t have died. It would’ve devastated Dustin, and I don’t know how he would’ve handled that after already losing Eddie, who he looked up to.

Steve is Dustin’s big brother. Even though they were fighting in season 5, they still cared about each other. Killing Steve right after Eddie would just be trauma stacking for the sake of it, not storytelling. Will dying would’ve brought the show full circle and it started with him disappearing, ending with him sacrificing himself fits. Just like el and Ted and Karen dying would make sense because how the hell do you survive after that attack?

I understand the need for higher stakes and god does Stranger Things 5 needed that but randomly killing off characters wouldn’t serve the purpose. Especially with Steve. When killing off characters we need to check on how this impacts the characters in the story. Steve’s death would majorly impact Dustin’s storyline.

I’ve seen people say that Steve should’ve died because he basically did nothing the entire season (even though his fighting with Jonathan was the catalyst to the Jancy breakup arc) and for the point of this post is the linchpin to Dustin’s entire Season 5 arc.

Without Steve, Dustin’s arc in Season 5 wouldn’t have worked. A lot of it is unhealthy coping mechanisms, not allowing himself to grieve, believing he couldn’t allow himself to be happy and idolizing Eddie to the point that the man he is remembering isn’t even the Eddie that really existed (which hurts him and also Steve). However, another chunk is his purposeful alienation of Steve that is caused by Eddie’s death.

There’s a reason why they keep showing Steve being concerned for Dustin (and not the Party eventhough they are also worried), it’s because Steve is inherently connected to Dustin’s quite frankly realistic fear. It’s not just about being afraid that his friends will die. It’s about how they can die. More specifically playing hero and risking themselves to protect Dustin.

Eddie died after putting himself in risk one time. Steve has put himself on the line many times and has suffered the physical consequences of it. In Dustin’s mind, it’s only a matter of time before Steve dies in a similar way to Eddie. So Dustin purposely shoves Steve away with cruel words so Steve wouldn’t risk his life for him like he’s done before. (There is also frustration on Dustin’s side, that he feels that Steve isn’t being smart and is stupidly risking his life adding fuel to the fire). It’s important that it’s Steve specifically, because Steve is another older male figure Dustin looks up to. Despite the many differences Eddie had to Steve, this is one similarity they share.

I actually do think there was a prime time for Steve to die and that was between Season 1-4. A giant window of opportunity to be frank. However, the minute Eddie died he essentially fulfilled what would have been the purpose of Steve’s death: a tragic hero’s death that would tug at people’s heartstrings and that would HEAVILY impact Dustin specifically. So what would be the point of killing Steve in season 5 if that purpose has already been fulfilled? Why are we going to repeat another arc where Dustin loses someone close to him, when he’s already in a bad spot. No, seriously? If we kill Steve in season 5, it just makes the entirety of Dustin’s storyline miserable.

This is a kid who already lost one older brother figure and then he loses another, the one he was even closer to. And to add salt to the wound the one he has been fighting with the past 18 months. If Steve doesn’t make up with Dustin before he died in this hypothetical Season 5 death, holy shit I actually think Dustin wouldn’t make it. Dustin would blame himself immensely, for pushing Steve away and not showing how much he really cared for him. You also need to remember that this is a Dustin that has very unhealthy coping mechanisms unlike the Dustin in the epilogue. That boy would not be able to healthily grieve the combined deaths of Steve and Eddie. Realistically I think he wouldn’t survive Season 5 after this.

It’s two deaths for the sake of angst but it doesn’t add more to Dustin’s character. It’s just more suffering. It’s just sad. We already know Dustin loves Steve (even if Steve doesn’t) so what’s the point of having a death scene to show what Dustin’s reaction would be?

Even if Steve’s death happens in the tower scene, and therefore after they made up, due to the events set up in the armory, it wouldn’t make sense for Dustin not to follow through. “You die, I die” right? The show has already set up that if Steve dies, Dustin dies too, a promise that Dustin initially made in Season 3 so why wouldn’t Dustin take those words to heart after Steve dies. It wouldn’t make sense for Dustin not to die with this already set up. It’s dark but that is what is implied. It’s a vow that they can’t live without the other. Even then, this still doesn’t eliminate that Dustin isn’t in a healthy place to grieve both Steve and Eddie at all during Season 5 even after he’s made up with Steve.

I think people fail to remember that above all Stranger Things has always been an optimistic show. It’s not Game of Thrones. It was always going to have a mostly happy ending. Killing two very important figures in Dustin’s life would’ve changed the character of Dustin irreparably. He wouldn’t be the bright eyed comedic character with a loveable heart anymore. But instead a deeply traumatized child who wouldn’t be able to move on. It would’ve shifted the mood of season 5 way too much.

It’s much more fulfilling for Steve and Dustin to make up and patch up their misunderstandings, reiterate how much they mean to one another and either die together or live together. It needs to be Steve who Dustin has this conclusion with because like I stated before Dustin’s fear and worry is tied to Steve’s actions specifically. Their endings are intertwined because their arcs are about how much they mean to one another. And it’s also a lot more hopeful.

I’m also going to briefly bring up El’s death, but I don’t have a problem with her dying as her ending. I just don’t like the way it was executed. A character death is an ending for a character but it is also the culmination of their arc. Like I stated, Steve’s would’ve been a hero’s death, deserving after all the redemption he’s done. I think if El would’ve died killing Vecna or hell even Dr. Kay who are now the representative figures of who caused her life to be such a traumatic hell then her death would’ve gone over a lot better. It would’ve been the victim of so much trauma finally getting the upper hand after everything. Her last breath and powers used to make sure no more harm can be done again by these people as her abusers and manipulators finally get their comeuppance.

But instead we got suicide and the message being that there was no possible way for the abused victim to live a happy normal life…Yeah El’s death was badly executed.