I normally try not to be negative on main but I gotta say I find it deeply irritating how many people in the Heathers fandom refuse to acknowledge that the different versions of Heathers are, in fact, different versions of the story with different canons and characterizations.
Like, it gets under my skin seeing posts like, "omg can you believe people actually think [thing based on musical canon] even though [thing that happens in the movie]??? 😏😏😏" Because, yes, I can believe that very easily, because I understand that things that happen in the movie have no bearing on versions of the characters not from the movie, and interpretations of the musical are based on things that happen in the musical, hope that clarifies it.
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If you had the chance to make something in collaboration with other fic writers or artists in the fandom, who do you think you'd vibe well with?
Very fun question, thank you!
There are actually a couple of other writers I've talked to about doing a collab with in the past. @this-lovely-soul-of-art and I have spoken about it before, although with our leanings these days I suspect if we did a writing collab it wouldn't be Heathers. There's another writer I won't namedrop where we've gotten as far as fleshing out a chansaw fic idea together, and hopefully when we both have the time we'll actually get something written because the concept is very, very good and I would really love to write with her.
I feel like @witchesbr3w and I could also do some extremely good work together, although when we do toss ideas back and forth we tend to "yes and" each other's impulses for making things smuttier and more fucked up. So our collab would probably be, y'know, that. Which I'm here for, I love it, but it wouldn't be for everyone.
I'd also love to collab with an artist. I imagine that would probably end up being art driven? Like I could see writing ficlets to the some pieces that an artist I loved produced. I won't tag anyone, because I don't know people on the art side of things as well (Artemis excepted). Like I yap at chansaw authors all the time, but I'm scared to talk to artists. But any of the artists I mentioned here are amazing at making me feel feelings and it would be a delight to write companion pieces for their art.
Besides chansaw, my big Heathers ship is chanduke, although I would say I like it in a very different way from chansaw. I've written at length about why I love chansaw, but for me chanduke is mostly fun because of how it wouldn't work. I get a lot of enjoyment out of the angst that comes from this dynamic where both of them can want each other and want a relationship together, but because of who they are and their history, it's impossible to actually get there, and they end up tearing each other to shreds instead, it's very compelling.
I find both polyheathers and chandlmara compelling from similarly toxic standpoints, like I don't really see them working out as healthy relationships, but I do see them creating some truly mesmerizing messes, and like them as ships for that reason.
Conversely, like, mcduke and macsaw I can respect because I think the dynamic makes sense and they would work as relationships, but I just don't find them all that interesting (although there's at least one mcduke fic another writer has in the works that I'm eagerly awaiting.) Like, I'm very reverse Benoit Blanc about these ships.
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What do you think about the serial killer Heathers au? Where all 3 heathers are serial killers instead of JD. I’ve read only very few fics about it.
I'm not a big AU girly in general, and I'll say that broadly this particular AU isn't really something I'd be very interested in. That said, I'm down to at least think it through.
For me, it comes down to what appeals to me about Heathers. I'm only into the musical, and the musical is really thematically about the reason people become bad people. The way the Heathers are shitty is very informed by their environment, and the same is true of JD, and I find that really interesting. It's what makes them compelling to me as characters and makes me enjoy playing with different scenarios and ways that they could be different.
So, I guess for me, this AU would require working backwards and figuring out what environment would lead the Heathers to become serial killers. With JD, it's a dissatisfaction with society and a bad, probably abusive, home environment that instils in him an instinct towards destruction as a means of changing things.
It would be more difficult with the Heathers, I think. Female serial killers are a lot less common for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that girls aren't really socialized to look to violence as a means of problem solving.
I suppose my instinct here is to lean into the threat of sexual violence that's so present in Heathers. Go full Promising Young Woman and have the Heathers take a more hands-on approach to protecting themselves from the shitty men of Sherwood. Maybe use the Remington party incident with Chandler as the inciting incident and have them confront David without violent intent but end up killing him. Then, after managing to easily get away with it, feeling emboldened and baiting creeps and then murdering those that take the bait.
The problem I guess I'd have from here is getting to a satisfying conclusion. Letting them just kill a bunch of people and get away with it doesn't feel right, but punishing them much for it feels shitty, too. It has that superhero movie "the villain is right but their methods are so over-the-top horrible that they have to be killed in protection of the status quo" thing I can't stand.
Heathers avoids this because JD's disaffection is a generalized anger at society (and then at Veronica specifically for denying him his emotional support sex object), and the people he's hurting aren't the actual cause of the problems he's angry about. I've already fucked myself on both counts because the Heathers' beef is both more specific and more legitimate, and because while they're not affecting societal change they are at least hurting the culprits of the thing they're mad about.
Knowing my instincts, probably I'd do something like Veronica convincing them to stop killing and maybe getting some big target man in power taken down by non-murderous means, and Chandler and Veronica falling in love. I dunno though. But that's what my take on this would look like, vaguely.
I once read a book that was a Medusa retelling that had the exact vibe you're describing and god was it agonizing. Seeing characters that have good in them go through such bad scenarios to incite them to do horrible things in the name of justice. And then knowing that something had to happen to stop them and also slowly realizing that they fucked themselves completely in the pursuit, in a way that changed who they intrisincally are. What it means to be them. And knowing that they are never going to be the relatively normal person of the beginning again, no matter what, and a large part of it is the trauma they've been through, but not a negligible part is a result of their own hunger for revenge. And, look, I love like The Last Of Us and stuff, but when you go into serial killer territory, particularly with these kinds of scenarios, at least for me, it stops being fun and just becomes so so so sad. Especially because it's a character destroyer.
Obviously JD wasn't born bad, no one is, but he didn't just kill people because they were hurting others and it was a way to deal with his trauma (in a way that implied that he was made "bad" or "rotten" or had had his heart and innocent "ruined" by a particular incident!!) He had a shitty father and home environment, but the main tenant of his ideology since the very beginning is that he had to be the god of a new world. Because Heathers and Marthas can only get along in heaven. Because he had the moral high ground. That's a character flaw of his that is interwoven with his personality.
To make any of the Heathers become a serial killer, you would have to take their personalities, which are not inherently violent, and stomp on them so much, traumatize them so bad, that they either change their outlook on the world ("we have to fix it" instead of "we have to adapt to it") or they disregard their own safety for moral righteousness, which they never really seemed to care for either way. You could only convince me that any of the Heathers would kill someone of their own volition if they had been badly, badly, hurt, in a way that all they thought about was revenge. But again, I don't think that would happen because the Heathers are survivors, not fighters. Heather Chandler has been sexually abused at the Remington party and didn't attack anyone. Heather McNamara has been raped and went to school the next day as if nothing had happened. Heather Duke has been humiliated in a variety of differently ways and never touched anyone. My question is, how would you go about hurting them, how would you even torture them so much that they would break?
Definitely agree that they're not really naturally inclined to violence, although I do think that musical Chandler is more inclined that way than her movie version. Like the way that threats of violence come readily to her makes me think that she's been subjected to threats of violence (or possibly just violence) from authority figures in her life, probably her parents, and I think that effects her pretty deeply. I've had conversations about this with a friend before, and I don't think musical Chandler's experience at the Remington party would go the same way as movie Chandler's does.
That's why it feels essential that the first killing isn't intentional. Like it echoes canon where the killing of Chandler isn't really premeditated, and it's only when they get away with it that JD realizes his dreams of lashing out at the world can be real and he becomes more dangerous.
But in this case, I think it'd go in the opposite direction, having killed a man and gotten away with it isn't liberatory, it isn't cathartic, it's ruinous. None of them can go back to just being normal girls with blood on their hands, the guilt eats at them. The fact that they get away with it so easily just makes it worse. The authorities don't even really care. It underscores the lack of any safety or justice, a reminder that if someone were to kill them, nothing would be done.
Mac would take it hardest and really fall apart, and I think it's out of that that Chandler would propose a solution. They're murderers, nothing will ever change that, they're ruined. But if that's the case, then what's really the difference between having killed one asshole and killing a dozen?
I dunno if that feels completely honest to me, it's definitely a product of starting with an outcome and working backwards, but I think it could feel plausible if handled right.
What do you think about the serial killer Heathers au? Where all 3 heathers are serial killers instead of JD. I’ve read only very few fics about it.
I'm not a big AU girly in general, and I'll say that broadly this particular AU isn't really something I'd be very interested in. That said, I'm down to at least think it through.
For me, it comes down to what appeals to me about Heathers. I'm only into the musical, and the musical is really thematically about the reason people become bad people. The way the Heathers are shitty is very informed by their environment, and the same is true of JD, and I find that really interesting. It's what makes them compelling to me as characters and makes me enjoy playing with different scenarios and ways that they could be different.
So, I guess for me, this AU would require working backwards and figuring out what environment would lead the Heathers to become serial killers. With JD, it's a dissatisfaction with society and a bad, probably abusive, home environment that instils in him an instinct towards destruction as a means of changing things.
It would be more difficult with the Heathers, I think. Female serial killers are a lot less common for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that girls aren't really socialized to look to violence as a means of problem solving.
I suppose my instinct here is to lean into the threat of sexual violence that's so present in Heathers. Go full Promising Young Woman and have the Heathers take a more hands-on approach to protecting themselves from the shitty men of Sherwood. Maybe use the Remington party incident with Chandler as the inciting incident and have them confront David without violent intent but end up killing him. Then, after managing to easily get away with it, feeling emboldened and baiting creeps and then murdering those that take the bait.
The problem I guess I'd have from here is getting to a satisfying conclusion. Letting them just kill a bunch of people and get away with it doesn't feel right, but punishing them much for it feels shitty, too. It has that superhero movie "the villain is right but their methods are so over-the-top horrible that they have to be killed in protection of the status quo" thing I can't stand.
Heathers avoids this because JD's disaffection is a generalized anger at society (and then at Veronica specifically for denying him his emotional support sex object), and the people he's hurting aren't the actual cause of the problems he's angry about. I've already fucked myself on both counts because the Heathers' beef is both more specific and more legitimate, and because while they're not affecting societal change they are at least hurting the culprits of the thing they're mad about.
Knowing my instincts, probably I'd do something like Veronica convincing them to stop killing and maybe getting some big target man in power taken down by non-murderous means, and Chandler and Veronica falling in love. I dunno though. But that's what my take on this would look like, vaguely.
Will you make a comeback to writing Chansaw on ao3 in the big 26? The heathers fandom is hanging on a lifeboat, and we’re in desperate need of your writing
Yes, absolutely. I've been working hard on The Fig Tree (actually made a few thousand words of progress over the last couple days) and intermittently on a number of different oneshots and two other chansaw longfics. I don't know how close I am to something publishable, depends on how much writing time I have and how much my brain will behave, but my brain is still very chansaw-oriented, and I'm dying to publish again.
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Okay sorry for taking a million years to get to this ask. I think this might have been from the top five anything ask meme, that's how old it is.
I mostly don't have headcanons? At least as I understand the term. Like I think of headcanons as things I believe about the character that aren't strongly evidenced in canon. So, I definitely headcanon Heather Chandler as a lesbian and Veronica as bisexual, but I think that's about it in terms of consistent beliefs I have about them.
I tend to think of characters more as a possibility space, as a range of versions of themselves that would be consistent with canon. For any given fic I pick a single version of them to write to, so I guess I have headcanons within a given fic, but like the version of Heather Chandler in Complicated Girls is a different version from in Until She Doesn't. I think both are plausible, given canon, but they're quite distinct from one another.
I guess I could give headcanons of specific versions of them in my fics, but I don't really like doing that either, I tend to prefer to let the text be the text and not give opinions that aren't contained in the actual fic. I am a dead author.
I'm taking it upon myself to do a welfare check haha. How are you, how's the baby? Since the discord kinda died, I feel we have heard from you so little.
Oh I didn't know that the discord had died! What happened?
As for me, I'm doing okay. The baby just turned one, she's so big now, standing up and babbling and saying, "Mama" and she's the cutest fucking thing. My wife's maternity leave ran out so she's back to work and we won't have daycare for another few months so I am momming most of the time.
Despite the lack of anything getting posted, I have been writing. A lot of that has been relatively unproductive jumping around to different WIPs because my brain won't settle on anything, but I've been chugging away at The Fig Tree too. I've got about 45k words of unpublished Fig Tree, but I just wanna make sure I have enough prewritten to post through to the ending at a chapter a week once I start posting again. Of that, chapter 6 was by far the biggest hurdle and I do have a complete first draft of it. I'm getting it polished up to send to a friend for editing, and unless they rip it to shreds, it'll be smoother progress from here.
I'm hoping one of the other oneshots I've been poking at will be postable soon as well, so maybe there will be fic from me soon!
Thanks for checking in, it really is very motivating for me when people ask after me or the writing. It's easy to convince myself that nobody notices when I'm not updating, but hearing from people that they're excited to read more gives me a lot of energy.
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Opinions on my kink is karma (Chappell Roan) as chansaw?
I don't feel like it's a perfect fit, but I do get the energy. Like, I don't think Veronica is this flavour of vindictive? So Heather has to be our POV, right? And then some of the lyrics are kind of an awkward fit, because the crashout being described really is a more Heather-like crashout than a Veronica-like one. So, really, it seems best suited for Heather breaking up with Heather.
I already answered this one here, although I've more or less fully taken on Beez as an internet surname. I've bestowed it upon a few people I love as a marker of found family, so it's kind of special to me now.
