and that's probably what Flowery was hoping for: a moment of realization that Ralsei doesn't need to wait for anyone's permission if they want to do something. That's why Flowery says he teased too much. He thought Ralsei was already seizing their autonomy, because Ralsei is already defying the prophecy! Flowery technically knew that before we did, at least to a greater extent than us. Flowery had assumed that Ralsei came into their autonomy the way the flowers had! But Ralsei hadn't, and Flowery noticed at some point that his teasing was genuinely upsetting Ralsei

Don’t you know the legend?

Travellers who climb Mount Ebott are said to disappear”

I know why Chara climbed the mountain, it wasn’t for a very happy reason.

…

"She should tell Berdly!" I'm not disagreeing but Susie would not consider Berdly a priority. She probably decently trusts him, but in more of a "lacks the capacity to be genuinely evil" way. She doesn't like Catti and Jockington seems chill with her but the former fact is probably a kill to that.

"She should tell Toriel!" As much as it wasn't Toriel's fault really, she did kind of lose all her Susie points at the end of the last chapter. Plus, she would probably consider the Dark Worlds too dangerous and try to stop them from going into them, which is the opposite of what Susie'd want.

but there's no contradiction. your childhood was real, but it had to end. it doesn't mean that what you experienced didn't matter. the point of the story isn't some arbitrary "the light world is more real and therefore matters more" deal, the point of the story is that the world is always changing, people are always growing, people are always *moving*, and trying to keep things the same forever in stasis will only hurt you because moving is what people *do*. King, Queen, Tenna and Flowery all have motivations, backstories and plans that revolve around the theme of clinging desperately to nostalgia in order to avoid pain.

but nostalgia is a poison. Everyone is instinctively tired and weary of "oh, silly teens just gotta grow up" because similar rethoric is oftentimes used irl to dismiss teenagers being in Actual Danger. Everyone has heard the jokes, "what the fuck are portal fantasy kids supposed to do when they come back?". and i agree it's easy for writers to mess this up. but in a world where nostalgia is deployed as a weapon by both corporations and governments, it's cool and brave to go "sorry, the only way is through". And the fact that Kris, for the most part, has the ability to move and grow and make choices by themselves taken away plays a huge role in exploring all of this

I do feel like some folks are oddly judgemental of Susie. the way she is acting is perfectly rational.

Kris is the type of person to be extremely self-sacrificial and self-harmful. We see this in them literally ripping out their soul in one of the most painful self harm allegories I’ve seen. We see them grab the suspiciously chara shaped flower seeds with warning labels that we have no idea what they plan on doing with them. They try to cut their flower statue thingy in half while only trimming Susie’s at the start of ch 5s darkworld. The promise to house the soul and give up their agency likely comes from a place of guilt. I could go on, but suffice it to say Kris is usually the last person they think of when doing anything.

So cut to Susie and Noelle’s relationship. Kris knows Noelle has a crush on Susie most likely since the start of the game. At the very least they do in ch 2, as during the Ferris wheel scene the dialogue options give the vibes of Kris trying to wingthey for Susie and Noelle. Maybe they don’t have feelings for Susie yet, maybe they do. But either way, they’re not going to get in the way of Susie and Noelle getting together.

Now it’s ch 5. Susie and Noelle very clearly have feelings for each other more than in ch 2. We see at the end of ch 5 Kris has feeling for Susie. But would they ever get in the way of Susie and Noelle at the festival? Hell no.

I firmly believe that if we the player choose all the suselle options, Kris will go along with them and play the best wingthey there is. Not bc they are forced to, we’ve seen them go against our orders or speak things quietly enough no one can hear them on multiple occasions. But bc they don’t want to get in the way of their best friend/crush and childhood best friend(/maybe childhood crush).

Like I said before, Kris is the type of person to put everyone else before themself. So, provided the soul chooses the options, Kris will wingthey the best they can for suselle bc they care about their friends happiness more than their own. Besides, in their mind it’ll be easier this way for when they inevitable betray Susie. She’ll have someone else to fall back on, right?

Kris istg your self sacrificing bullshit is going to send me to the fucking grave. But I digress

Kris would never get in the way of suselle. Even tho it hurts them to watch those two get close, they wouldn’t stop it from happening. Hell, at the shorted weird rout hot spring, they’d rather dive headfirst into the water than allow the soul to tell Susie “don’t get between me and Noelle”.

But now they’re at the hot spring with Susie on the normal route. Susie, the girl they have a crush on, the girl who’s their first real friend in a long time, the girl who’s been there for there whole adventure. The girl who said “I gotta practice giving this to someone” and then threw a goddamn flower at Kris’ face when they scared her. No I am not ok about this. And the two of them are sitting together, and Susie’s worried her and Noelle won’t work out. And…

Kris can’t say they will. Looking at her, as the soul picks that “you and Noelle will work out”…Kris can’t say it. They mumble the words low enough Susie can’t hear.

Is this bc they don’t think Susie and Noelle will actually work out? No. In fact, id bet the opposite. They think the two will work out, but some selfish part of them, probably a part they hate, wants them to not. Not bc they want the two to suffer, but bc that single, selfish part wants to be with Susie. And when it’s the two of them alone…they can’t fully ignore that part well enough to tell Susie what she wants to hear.

And then the chapter ends, and it’s just the two of them again. (Given the right option is selected) Kris rips out their soul and it truly is just the two of them as they walk back to castle town. Susie reassures Kris and reaffirms their bond, but at the same time says that “the dark world can’t just be a you and me thing anymore. It needs to be Noelle’s thing too”.

Even tho she tells them they still matter to her, even tho they know that, Kris is still hurt by this. Ignoring the various reasons Kris probably doesn’t want Noelle in the dark world, her getting included is getting in the way of their Kris and Susie thing.

Like obviously the two aren’t alone the entire dark world and Kris still cares a lot about ralsei, for example, but at the end of the day, when the fountains are sealed, Kris and Susie are the only two left who know what happened. Who experienced king, queen, tenna, the knight, the titan. Who experienced that dark world in its full capacity. And they did it together.

Kris knows Susie still cares so much for them. But seeing their face at the end of the chapter as they walk home all alone, and just how fucking sad they look. It’s not hard to imagine they feel like Susie is drifting away from them too.

First dess, then Noelle, then Asriel. Now Susie too.