and if i said i think the flowers are representations of kris and their issues?

I wanna talk about Flowery.

Everyone fucking hates Flowery. Why?

Everyone is comparing his reveal to Tenna's, but those circumstances could not be more different in terms of narrative. Tenna is, from the jump, supposed to be light-hearted and fun. He is the personification of the Fun Gang letting loose and having a good time. This is what makes his eventual reveal that he's working with the Knight into an actual betrayal. If we didn't trust Tenna, that moment wouldn't work.

With Flowery, the vibes are rancid from the moment he's revealed. He's charming and charismatic, but something is off. Not to mention that Ralsei absolutely despises him.

So, why make Flowery unlikable? What's the point?

Well, the point is that Flowery is the exact opposite of Tenna.

With Tenna, we like him, but he's wrong.

With Flowery, we hate him, but he's right.

Everything that Flowery does to Asgore is an exact mirror to what Ralsei did with Kris and Susie at the beginning of the game. In fact, the entire chapter is a complete mirror of Chapter 1's dark world!

Flowery gives Asgore a home, gives him friends, tells him that he's special. And yet, we spend the entire chapter trying to get Asgore out of that situation, with the understanding that it's dangerous.

But what about it is dangerous? The denial of reality? Because Susie is now living in a dark world. The exact thing that Asgore gave an entire heartwarming speech about not doing.

When Flowery tells us that we could close Castle Town instead of his dark world and we would be no closer to the Roaring, we hate him because he's right. When he says that all the flowers want is to live and a chance to make Asgore as happy as he's made them, we hate him because he's right.

And, at the end of the chapter, he tries to defeat us with the power of friendship. The other flowers never turn on him. He uses a mercy attack against us, and Kris responds by hitting him with a sword.

I’ve seen a lot of people complain that Pink’s placement as a secret boss in chapter 5 is disconnected or unfitting. but i think she's actually perfect for the last secret boss, especially if secret bosses are meant to symbolize a desire for freedom. Now i will yap about it for several paragraphs

several parallels are built between Spamton and Pink during her fight, which make it clear they’re meant to be compared. their designs both feature pink and gold, they both steal a body that isn’t theirs, they’re both involved with green strings, they both feature Mad Dummy in their boss fight/theme, are both puppets related to cats, and they both have odd connections to the weird route (as evidenced by the translation of Cutie Mew Mew Magic). in almost every other way however, Spamton and Pink are opposites. Spamton’s story is a tragedy; from the start, his rainbow-colored peers don’t accept him as their own and see him as lesser for being different and less capable. he’s a broken and decrepit doll who’s had life screw him over every step of the way, he’s been abandoned by everyone he ever loved and cared about, his body has been marred beyond recognition, he’s treated as a living puppet with no autonomy or freedom, and he doesn’t get to keep his dream body or ‘fuse with his chosen vessel'. Even after being defeated by the fun gang, none of his problems are fixed; he has no choice but to accept his status as a simple puppet. Spamton is Kris’ worst case scenario. they are terrified this is going to be their own future, they’re visibly shaken by Spamton’s fight unlike any other in the entire game.  i think the reason Chapter 2 in particular features a character which symbolizes such a depressing future for Kris is because Chapter 2’s dark fountain is created by the Roaring Knight. a character which Kris is very heavily implied to have some kind of partnership with, one where the Knight holds power and control over Kris (as evidenced by the knighting scene after their fight, and the high probability that the Knight is the person who talks to Kris on the phone and sends them orders). the dynamic Kris has with the Knight can be compared to the relationship Spamton had with his benefactor, where he must follow orders from a mysterious voice on the phone lest he be punished (and punished he was).  by this point in the story, Kris is both being metaphorically puppeted by the Knight, and literally puppeted by the player, leaving them feeling a complete loss of autonomy. this situation is opening way to Kris’ worst future. one where they are abandoned by everyone and thrown aside like an unwanted puppet. like Spamton. in Chapter 5 however, the dark fountain is created by Kris instead. though the creation of the fountain was clearly premeditated (likely to get time for the Knight to kidnap Asgore), i don’t think it’s crazy to say that part of the reason they created it in the moment was to distract Susie from the Rudy situation. to keep Susie happy, because they don’t want her best day ever being ruined by the news. Kris cares about Susie so, so much, and it’s clear she’s a huge part of the reason Kris can now see a future for themself where things aren’t so bad. this hope manifests as Pink.  Pink is present in Kris’ subconscious before Chapter 5 even begins. Kris plays Shop 3 on the piano in Noelle’s house, a song which is later present in the shop owned by Pink. Shop 3 shows a more somber side to Pink’s character, as she simply watches the sunset, captivated by how freeing it feels to be able to do so in her dream body.  Pink herself, of course, is very much a parallel to Kris, being a Darkner and a Lightner both using the same body, who struggle with differing wants and desires and must ultimately learn to cooperate with each other despite that (which may hint towards the idea that Kris' ideal ending would be them and the player learning to understand each other, rather than one or the other being banished for good).

even though Pink isn’t really a flower, when she pretends to be one, HER rainbow-colored peers all see her as one of them and accept her with open arms, uncaring of her strange circumstances. In the end, Pink gets to keep her dream body and watch the sunset with her best friend. All things Spamton desperately wanted and never got to have, and all things Kris hopes to have. Pink is Kris’ best case scenario, their subconscious manifesting a future for them where everything ends up fine, even if just for a little while.

Susie had a whole thing about hiding her tail, right?

And it's clear that Susie is actually empathising with Orange with her situation.

Susie trying to reassure Orange that it's okay they aren't human or look like the others...

And this one is the most interesting, because it seems the whole thing about "pretending to have the odd one fit in" clearly upset Susie here. Normally, Susie isn't someone that would resort to back to "beating up enemies" like in Ch 1, but its clear that she didn't like the direction of how things were going that she forces the group to act in this way.

We know that Kris' whole thing is about how they feel different from the rest of the town for being the only human in a town full of monsters, right? Orange seems to be a reflection of this, yet it's SUSIE, not Kris, who empathises with Orange the most here, out of all of the 7 Flowers. They even have a whole thing about them being HUNGRY when we first meet them, and Susie has food insecurity.

The whole hiding the tail thing, humans not having tails, Susie trying to reassure Orange that it's okay to be different.

Guys. Do you not realise what this is all implying?

Could Susie have lived with humans...?

That's why Susie was triggered when they tried to pretend to be a mouse to make Orange fit in. Because that's what happened to her. Susie says that those who usually tried to be friends with her often did it as a joke.

Holy shit.

Orange is a parallel to younger Susie just like how Aqua is a parallel to younger Kris. (And note that cyan and orange as considered opposites/complimentary in UTDR with the whole "moving vs staying still" mechanics of the two.)

There's also the fact that Orange is the one who ends up becoming besties with Pink. Pink being the Kris + Player parallel... Orange and Pink is Susie and Kris. oh my god.

ok i’ve never posted anything like this before but i haven’t seen anyone talk about this yet and i couldn’t stop thinking about it!!

When they are free of our direct control, they are still not acting 100% of their real desires, they are following the orders of some evil Voice(s?) on the phone.

The ending seem to imply some sort of emotional conflict between them wanting to help out Susie, who is very dear to their heart, and following this plan which is probably not beneficial to her. A plan that they have to follow cause...