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When you look up who created Tim Drake you’ll see Marv Wolfman and Pat Broderick, but that’s just because Pat Broderick drew Tim’s initial cameo as a creepy looking toddler cause he couldn’t draw a toddler.
And I’d rather not believe we’re supposed to take this as what Tim is suppose to look like, when he looks much more different during his origin story.
————————————-
Today I want to attempt to make the most quintessential Tim Drake post I can manage. By talking about his characterization as written by the man that created Tim, with help from various artists, Marv Wolfman. So basically, the man that has no better authority on Tim Drake.
That way I figure is the most concrete characterization you can get for Tim. And while obviously he’s had character development. His stories were made to show us who Tim Drake was at his heart.
So that’s what I chose to go off of for this post that goes over his origin, motivation, personality, and looks.
That way you can get the ultimate understanding of Timmy Drake! Or at least the basics.
Also, as a note, and what may be obvious, this is his origin, meaning that he’d obviously develop more as a character, which would lead to the degree of some of these traits being changed, or written by other writers that focus on some more than others, or even just made to be out of character.
I’m just choosing to use the origin, because it’s the closest way to show what the intention was for the heart of his character. <3
(I don’t own the hardback cover, but man, if I did. I’d…just treat it the same as my softback. But it’d be really cool. It’s a very fun cover. Batman’s smiling again and look at Timmy’s toothy grin!)
I think the easiest way to begin to explain Tim and his characterization, is what I can gather may be the most obvious way to it. His origin story. Which I’ve covered in quite some detail in another post, which I may link if I can figure out how to do that. So I’ll just recap the important parts of it, before just going to the character moments that can show us what little Timmy is like.
Disclaimer: I have not read all of Jason's Robin tenure! If there is any information from 1987-1988 that I missed, I would love to hear it! This part of the timeline is meant as more of a prequel for the Red Hood part, which I got maybe carried away with.
Jason's mom dies in February - Batman (1940) #409: Bruce learns from the records of a clinic of some kind that Catherine Todd died of an overdose "last February". Bruce suggests in the previous panel that she may have died within the past six months.
context for later - Dick moves on from Robin around May/June - Batman (1940) #408: the narration states a number of weeks pass between Dick leaving and the later events of this issue.
Jason is caught stealing the Batmobile's tires on June 26 - Batman (1940) #408: the narration states Batman is in Crime Alley for the anniversary of his parents death, which has been generally established as June 26. This also aligns with the six month span Bruce suggests in #409 (it's unclear to me where he got this number from but he's Batman and I'm trusting him with this).
bonus - Batman (1940) #409: Bruce originally sends Jason to Ma Gunn's School for Boys after reclaiming his tires. Jason stays for about 24 hours before running away. I'm not going to summarize the whole issue here, but I think it's worth noting that Bruce did try a more typical approach before taking Jason in himself.
Jason becomes Robin around late December - Batman (1940) #410: the narration states Bruce has been training Jason for six months since taking him in. This is also the issue where Jason finds out Two-Face is believed to have killed his dad (but I won't clutter this post with my thoughts about Willis Todd).
Jason was 12 when he died - walk with me. Batman (1940) Annual #12: this issue takes place during Jason's 7th grade year. I'm choosing to believe that Jason did not repeat his 5th grade year, and his birthday is in August, so he would have been 12 years old here. This issue was published a year after #410 (note: publishing dates are different than the dates on covers, yes, it's confusing) and another four IRL months pass between Annual #12 and #426 when A Death in the Family begins. Although comic time never lines up with IRL time, it can help narrow it down. Given only four IRL months, I think it's reasonable to assume that Jason is still in 7th grade and 12 years old when ADitF takes place.
The popular belief that Jason was 15 at his death is from The Batman Files, published in 2011. I like to prioritize information given during or close to the original continuity (especially in this case, because DC really likes to age Jason up in order to make his murder and subsequent murdering less tragic). Ultimately, I was converted by this post arguing a younger death date. arcade-confetti makes many of the same points I'm making here much more concisely.
Jason was Robin for a year and a half - keep walking with me, friends. Batman (1940) #436: after Jason's death and funeral, when Dick gets back to the Manor from his space adventures with the Titans, he mentions that it's been two years since he left. As I mentioned earlier, he left in May/June immediately before Jason met Bruce. This means Jason had been living at the Manor for about two years and, allotting for his six months of training, was Robin for a year and a half of that time. Assuming he's 12 after those two years, he would have been 10 when he met Bruce. Also, Batman (1940) #410: the narration states Jason is a fifth-grade dropout. He would have been 10 in 5th grade, having dropped out to care for Catherine before she died, and the subsequent lack of care/food/shelter making it difficult to return.
Jason dies on April 27 - Batman (1940) Annual #25: this was published directly after Under the Red Hood in 2006. Again, I prefer to follow the information given closest to original continuity, but given that it's such a widely accepted date with nothing from ADitF contradicting it, I'll include it here.
A simplified timeline:
February, age 10 - Catherine dies of an overdose
June 26, age 10 - Jason meets Batman
June 27, age 10 - Bruce takes Jason in
August 16 - Jason's 11th birthday
Training for six months
late December, age 11 - Jason becomes Robin
Robin for year and a half
April 27, age 12 - Jason is murdered
I would have included panels but the next part is super super long already. Click here for the post covering Jason's revival and early stories as Red Hood!
Post-Crisis, Jason's revival through early Red Hood (click here for Jason's rebooted origin to his death)
Compared to Jason's tenure as Robin, there is much less specific information given here regarding how long things take, and I don't have the energy to sift through the text for breadcrumbs (but if anyone does have that energy, I would love to hear what you find!). What I have done is skim Lost Days to account for the time between Jason's revival and his first appearance in Hush, and sorted everything else into a reasonable order of events.
Jason is revived in late October - Batman (1940) Annual #25: the narration states six months passed between Jason's death and revival, placing it in late October. Besides, I think it would be fun for Jason to be revived on Halloween. As I covered in part 1, this timeline puts Jason at 12 when he dies, and since death generally puts a pause on growth and development, he is still 12 when he's revived (an argument could be made that his birthday is now the date of his revival, but I'm not making it).
Three years pass between Jason's revival and his dip in the Lazarus Pit - Batman (1940) Annual #25: the narration states Jason spent 1 year in a coma at Huntington Convalescent Home, 1 year living on the streets of Gotham (I have qualms with the implication that none of the Bats noticed Jason sleeping on sidewalks for an entire year but whatever), and 1 year living with the al Ghul's before Talia put him in the Pit. Jason would be 15 at this time.
Much of the above is reiterated in Red Hood: The Lost Days (2010-2011) #1 with conflicting time spans given, but I'm prioritizing the information provided in Annual #25 because it was published earlier, in 2006 immediately following the conclusion of Under the Red Hood.
Jason gets to Gotham and spends six days there - Red Hood: The Lost Days (2010-2011) #2: after Talia pushes him off a cliff to get away from the al Ghul's mansion (not kidding), Jason swims and motorbikes and boards an undocumented plane to get to Gotham and there is no way to tell how long any of that took. But the narration states that Jason spent six days in Gotham before planting the bomb on the Batmobile. This would roughly be the beginning of November.
Jason spends about 10 months training - Red Hood: The Lost Days (2010-2011) #3-6: this is a guess at best. I counted up the time spans given (the story skips around a bit but something close to 6 months spent with 6 different mentors) and added a month each for the additional 3 mentors mentioned in passing. I added another month to account for the time Jason spent dealing with the bombs in London and tracking down Joker. That places the infamous Talia/Jason sex scene at the end of #6 in late June, when Jason is still 15. Do with that what you will. (What's worse: murdered at 15 or statutory rape at 15?)
Here is where I give up trying to keep track of time spans and Jason's age and look instead to the publishing dates for context clues.
I'll repeat: publishing dates are different than the date on the cover of a comic issue. Generally, the cover date is two months later than the publishing date, for tricky sales reasons. I think it's more a matter of tradition these days. All the IRL dates I mention are the publishing dates, and this next section is ordered as such.
Both Annual #25 and Lost Days are prequels that lead into Batman (1940) #608-619, aka the Hush storyline. Jason appears dressed as Hush in #617-618, published in July and August 2003. Bruce's internal dialogue says that Jason was killed "years ago" (which lines up with the roughly 4 years 5 months this timeline allots) and also mentions Jason looking the same age as Nightwing. Dick would have been firmly older than 20 at this time. The original explanation was that it was actually Clayface imitating Jason, aged-up so as to mask any inconsistencies. Annual #25 retcons this, so Jason really does look like an adult to Bruce. Whatever. Jason is always aged up when he's being antagonistic, so I'm ignoring that particular detail.
There's a year and a half IRL gap here to allow for a whole host of other storylines to happen. I'll link this post by bitimdrake that gives context for what's happening on the peripheries during all of Jason's shenanigans and provided me a very helpful framework in making this timeline.
The first half of Under the Red Hood, Batman (1940) #635-641, was published from December 2004 to June 2005. There was a short break for an unrelated story in the middle of Under the Red Hood, but publishing picked up again in September 2005 for #645-650, concluding in February 2006.
for context: Infinite Crisis #1 began in October 2005. Under the Red Hood is technically a tie-in for Infinite Crisis, because of the Superboy-Prime universe-punching that retconned Jason's death in-universe and caused his whole revival in the first place, even though those specifics are only mentioned in Annual #25. The details aren't important to me because they aren't important to Jason (see the panel in Lost Days #2 where Talia talks about Jason not seeming to be interested in finding out how he was revived).
more context: the infamous issue where Jason attacks Tim at Titan's Tower takes place in Teen Titans (2003) #29. The publishing date of November 9 2005 being right in the middle of Under the Red Hood leads me to believe Jason took a break from fighting Batman to fight Robin a little too. One could reread these issues and find a good reason/time for Jason to fly out to San Francisco.
As I mentioned earlier, Batman (1940) Annual #25 is published the month after Under the Red Hood concludes, in March 2006, and details the events between Jason's death and his appearance in Hush.
Jason's next chronological appearance comes in Nightwing (1996) #118-122, aka Brothers in Blood. This is part of the One Year Later storyline that, you guessed it, skips ahead one year in-universe after the conclusion of Infinite Crisis. Nightwing (1996) #118 is published a couple weeks after Annual #25 in March 2006 and wraps up in July 2006.
Next comes Green Arrow (2001) #69-72, aka Seeing Red, published from December 2006 to March 2007, so there were a number of IRL months with no Jason appearances. (I have not read this story yet, so please let me know if there are any timeline implications therein).
Lastly, Jason's inexplicable appearance in Outsiders (2003) #44-46 and Annual #1, aka Pay as You Go. This was published almost concurrently with Seeing Red, from January 2007 to April 2007 BUT. It's a flashback story to one year prior. Outsiders (2003) directly contradicts itself, but I choose to believe that Pay as You Go takes place between UtRH and Brothers in Blood, during the year that One Year Later skips. Here's a very long tangent with all my reasoning (or scroll to the bottom for an in-universe timeline):
I say inexplicable because Jason's presence and role in Pay as You Go doesn't make much sense when you look at his other stories around this time. To sum up, if you haven't read it, Black Lightning accidentally kills someone and puts himself in prison about it, but there are complications and the Outsiders (Dick Grayson being a member) need to break him out. Jason is the one who kicks it off by providing the information that Black Lightning isn't actually guilty. Looking at UtRH and Brothers in Blood, regardless of what order these stories are in, Jason and Dick are not on good terms. But Pay as You Go provides no real explanation for why Jason would bother to help exonerate Black Lightning and none of the events of UtRH or Brothers in Blood are mentioned. Nobody even mentions Jason's revival. It being published in 2007, Jason had been back for a while and it's likely the readers didn't need to be reminded, but it's also a flashback story and the characters probably should've been a little surprised. (And did Jason meet Black Lightning as Robin or something? I'm curious). Anyway.
The real question here is whether Pay as You Go takes place before or after Brothers in Blood. I'm looking to Outsiders (2003) for the answer. This is also why I brought up Infinite Crisis way back when.
The Outsiders (2003) run can be split into two parts: everything pre-Infinite Crisis (#1-33, #29-33 being a direct tie-in) and everything post-Infinite Crisis (#34-50 and Annual #1). #34 is the debut of the new Outsiders team, notably marking the exit of Roy Harper and the entrance of Metamorpho and Owen Mercer. The last part of Pay as You Go in Annual #1 has Roy quit the Outsiders, shapeshifter Shift merge back with Metamorpho, and Owen Mercer join the Outsiders after being broken out of prison along with Black Lightning, so it makes sense to slot Pay as You Go between #33 and #34. Also, Thunder has her original suit in Pay as You Go, meaning it can't take place anytime after #34. Also also, the Outsiders are lacking an HQ in Pay as You Go, which was destroyed in #28, meaning it has to take place after that.
There is a big fat Owen Mercer-shaped discrepancy here that I am choosing to ignore because it makes no sense. In IRL chronology, he originally meets the Outsiders during the Infinite Crisis tie-in (#29-33) and joins them in #34. But then you get to the flashback of Pay as You Go and he meets and joins the Outsiders because of the prison break, seemingly completely disconnected from the first occasion. Good job DC.
So, ignoring Owen, this puts the in-universe order as: end of UtRH -> Outsiders does Infinite Crisis -> Pay as You Go during the year skipped by One Year Later -> Brothers in Blood after OYL. Then Seeing Red, etc. Phew.
And none of this really matters because nothing in Pay as You Go has any bearing on Jason's character development or emotional arc (but I actually really like this story and there's a lot of fanfic potential to fill in the gaps).
A simplified timeline, in-universe:
late October, age 12 - Jason is revived, six months after death, Batman (1940) Annual #25
late October, age 13 - has spent 1 year in a coma, Batman (1940) Annual #25
late October, age 14 - has spent 1 year on the streets of Gotham, Batman (1940) Annual #25
late October, age 15 - has spent 1 year with the al Ghul's, dipped in the Pit, Batman (1940) Annual #25
early November, age 15 - Jason's first return to Gotham and the car bomb, Red Hood: The Lost Days (2010-2011) #2
end of June, age 15 - has spent 10ish months training, Red Hood: The Lost Days (2010-2011) #3-6
Choose your own age and date for the remainder
Jason's appearance in Hush, Batman (1940) #617-618
Jason plans for Under the Red Hood while storylines like War Games and Identity Crisis take place.
The first 8 parts of Under the Red Hood, Batman (1940) #635-645
Infinite Crisis begins publishing
Part 9 of Under the Red Hood, Batman (1940) #646
The attack on Titan's Tower in Life and Death, Teen Titans (2003) #29
Parts 10-13 of Under the Red Hood, Batman (1940) #647-650
During the year that One Year Later skips, Jason's appearance in Pay as You Go, Outsiders (2003) #44-46 and Annual #1
Jason dons the Nightwing suit in Brothers in Blood, Nightwing (1996) #118-122
Jason bothers Green Arrow and Speedy in Seeing Red, Green Arrow (2001) #69-72
I believe Jason shows up next in stuff leading into Final Crisis, and then Red Hood and the Outlaws makes its debut in the New 52, but that is where my interest wanes. Here is a great reading order if you are interested. The post I linked earlier also has more info on those stories.
If you read all of this, thanks for muscling through all my parentheticals and full-naming of comic runs!
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I was trying to write some fic and started saving a bunch of comic panels to analyze Cass’s speech patterns, so here’s my notes for myself and others! Most of the panels are taken from more recent stuff, like Birds of Prey (2023), Batgirls (2022) and Batgirl (2024).
I have nine points:
Only speaking when necessary
Typically monotone
Sentence Structure
On the job vs off the job
Slang
Facial Expressions and Body Language
Miscellaneous
My personal headcanons (still with some evidence)
I've also been forced to split this post up, since I can't add more than ten images per post :(
1: Only speaking when necessary
Unsurprisingly, Cass doesn’t talk much. This is especially true in group situations, since she doesn’t need to drive any conversation.
[Birds of Prey, Issue #2: Zannah and Black Canary are discussing plans, going back and forth about how to get onto Themyscira. Cass adds “or they’ll be on high alert.”]
The panel above is from a scene showing the Birds strategizing, and this is the only time Cass talks. She’s silent the rest of the time.
For one-on-one situations, she still doesn’t expand much, preferring single-word sentences.
[Batgirl (2024), Issue #2: Lady Shiva dropping some exposition, and Cass asking a question with one word.]
In tense situations, she can forget to speak ‘properly’, dropping words like ‘I’ll’ in the panel below:
[Batgirl (2024), Issue #2: Cass fights Kalden the Unseen after he hurts her friend.]
Also, she’ll talk more casually with people she’s comfortable with, like Steph!
[Batgirls, Issue #4: Cass and Steph banter a bit before being interrupted by Barbara.]
2: Typically monotone
Cass sounds very monotone, a lot of the time. She barely ends her sentences with exclamation marks or asks rhetorical questions. It’s fun to see her contrast her with characters who are more excitable/long-winded!
[Birds of Prey, Issue #7: Cass and Bertha go back and forth after being beaten in a fight.]
Cass also keeps up her usual tone in most fights. Here she is, battling a giant squid creature, focused as ever.
[Spirit World, Issue #3: Cass chides her teammates for bickering at each other rather than focusing on the fight.]
When in more alarming situations, she’ll raise her voice like everyone else. It’s uncommon, but only because it’s uncommon for her to be overwhelmed.
[Spirit World, Issue #4: A mysterious force takes control of Cass and Constantine, Cass looks scared, shouting “Can’t control… my body!”]
Once again, she’s more expressive with Steph. She’s more comfortable with her, and matches Steph’s energy when they’re both excited.
[Batgirls (2022), Issue #2: Steph and Cass exclaim “Bondo?!” at the same time, christening the car.]
As said before, Cass doesn’t talk more than she has to. Where most would use a comma, she ends each phrase with a period. She also drops a lot of ‘unnecessary’ speech.
Birds of Prey #1
[Birds of Prey, issue #1: Batgirl talks to Black Canary, where she greets her by just saying ‘Black Canary.’ without a hello.]
If she can be understood with just a word, she’ll only say that word.
[Batgirls, issue #1: Cass replies with ‘Soap. Towel. Favourite robe.’ when asked if she needs anything.]
Cass uses a lot of ellipses, especially in the early days. She trails off often, and speaks slowly.
[Batgirl (2000), Issue #7: Batgirl tries to convince Batman she’s ready, stuttering.]
4: On the job vs off the job.
Cass is much more at ease and confident with her sentences as Batgirl. She trails off a lot more as a civilian.
[Batgirl (2008), Issue #2: Cass talking to a guy in her class, having an awkward conversation (likely also awkward since it’s implied to be romantic, but still).]
In the exact same issue, Cass as Batgirl speaks a lot more confidently.
[Batgirl (2008), Issue #2: Cass and Marque discuss their plans and trade information.]
5: Slang
Cass canonically picked up dialogue from watching TV, and uses some slang. Although she picked up English almost like a second language, she doesn’t speak like she was taught in a formal, classroom setting.
[Spirit world, issue #4: Cass says ‘gotcha’.] [Birds of Prey, Issue #9, Cass says ‘sorta’ in her sentence.]
If Cass can get her point across just using her face or other non-verbal gestures, that’s her go to. No point using words when your face does the trick!
The page below is one of my favourites, since it really shows Cass communicating a lot without words.
[Birds of prey, issue #7: Cass makes her opinion on potential outfits known with her facial expressions.]
She’d also rather nod or shake her head, as opposed to saying ‘yes’ or ‘no’.
[Batgirls #3: Cass nods her head.][Spirit World #4: Cass shakes her head.]
7: Miscellaneous
Cass can’t storytell well at all:
[Birds of Prey, Issue #1: The team tells Cass she’s really bad at telling stories.]
Cass uses a lot of emojis:
[Nightwing issue #79: Babs remarking that Cass can’t help herself when it comes to emojis.]
8: Veering into Headcanon Territory:
Cass has a very basic grasp on describing what she’s feeling. In my mind, this translates to a very basic grasp of her feelings as a whole.
In the panel below, Cass is very confused about why she’s putting in effort towards her father, and describes him as terrible. She pauses a lot, indicating she’s having a hard time putting together how she feels:
[Batgirl (2000) #65: Cass tells David Cain he ‘sucks’, very simple vocabulary for everything that’s gone down between them.]
I also think Cass has echolalia, which is the ‘meaningless repetition of words spoken by another person’. This only happens a few times but I’ll peddle it.
[Batgirls #2: Cass repeats Stephs words ‘still sucking’, without much reason.]
Conclusion:
Obviously, different writers write her differently, and I’ve tried to grab from a lot of different series to get the main points down. It’s also important to think about what point of Cass’s life you’re writing. In the current stories, Cass can express basically anything she needs to (except anything too complicated like feelings, lol), but in the early 2000s she was struggling with simple sentences. And of course, she didn’t speak at all for the majority of her life! Anyways, I hope you find this guide useful.
one of the hardest things to learn as a depressed former Gifted Kid™ is that half-assed is better than nothing. take the 50%, 40%, even 20% job. scrubbing your face is better than not taking a shower at all. picking up your clothes is better than never cleaning. nibbling on some bread is better than starving.
DO THINGS HALFWAY. NOW YOU’RE 100% BETTER OFF THAN YOU WERE BEFORE.
One of my college professors used to say “anything worth doing is worth doing poorly.” I didn’t understand that for years because I didn’t do anything poorly, I couldn’t do anything poorly, I had to Do Everything Perfectly.
But brushing your teeth for 30 seconds is better than not brushing them at all when that 2 minutes seems exhausting. Doing ten minutes of yoga is better than 10 minutes of sitting when 30 minutes of cardio sounds impossible. Changing my clothes is good when a whole shower is impossible. Standing on the porch for a few minutes is worth it after being in the house for three straight days because I don’t have the energy to go anywhere.
Anything worth doing is worth doing poorly… because doing it poorly is better than not doing it.
I find Jason's lack of hatred for Sheila despite luring/betraying him to The Joker, which lead to their mutual deaths, so interesting.
In Death in The Family, while beaten half to death, he uses what little strength he has left to set her free and tells her to run.
He knew he wasn't going to be able to make it out on his own, but his main priority was Sheila's safety. The only reason he made it anywhere near the door is because she chose to help him.
And when she discovered it was locked, his last act in his first life was to shield her from the blast with his own body.
In Deadman: Dead Again (2001) #2 we get to see Jason's spirit in the immediate aftermath of his death.
"It's weird--she betrayed me to The Joker, got us both blown up--but I'm not mad at her. It wasn't really her fault--her whole life was screwed up. Things just--happened."
Which lines up well with his reaction to her explanation for why she wasn't there to raise him. He has nothing but sympathy and understanding for his mom.
(Though forgiving her for what she did in DITF is honestly on another level, it WAS her fault. Part of why she did it was to prevent her theft of famine relief funds from being discovered.)
Fast forward several years later and that care is still there despite everything. From: Task Force Z (2022) #8.
"You all know I wasn't killed with a crowbar, right? It was a bomb. I died trying to save someone I cared about."
In Knight Terrors: Robin (2023) #1 we even see that he still calls her mom!
Now it's possible that there was a point post resurrection where his feelings toward her changed; I haven't read far enough yet to speak on that. But he didn't hate her during DITF, in the immediate aftermath of his death, or (as far as I've seen) in the present.
i think the thing about batman's no kill rule is that its essentially bruce saying "guilty people don't deserve to be murdered on the street either, actually." and he's not wrong.
At Toba aquarium in Japan, after closing time, some clever little otter pups help their grandpa tidy up their toys. As a reward, he gives them ice cubes
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i hate that so many people—fanfic writers and professional writers alike—think that cass would speak broken english. that is an INCREDIBLY racist asian stereotype.
you want to show that she struggles with english? writer her...talking like...this...instead. it makes more sense that she would struggle to find words and would need to pause to find them!
I agree about the broken sentences thing being dumb and get what this is saying but at the same time I think you gotta look at how most things depict her abilities as working and translate it to how she thinks in terms of language. Her ability to read body language means that everything is about immediate, direct, blunt information. There is no framing of it, it just is.
Cass isn’t gonna be pausing to figure out how she wants to put something unless she’s making a concerted effort to talk the way everyone else does. In situations where she’s not actively trying figure out structured sentences or phrasing or whatever (like in fights), she would logically default to short, clipped sentences using words she already knows for the sake of conveying the information available as quickly as is possible.
For Example, If the sentence is “I need to go to the store to get some milk”, writing Cass in broken English is like, “I go store... get milk.” When the structure should be more like “Going to the Store. Need Milk. Now.” The first is bad because it doesn’t give us information that lets us really understand anything other than “This girl can’t speak English properly”. There’s no characterization in it that expresses WHY she’s not speaking fluently and that means the audience is free to make incorrect assumptions, but not able to really get to know her as a character. We can’t gather why her vocabulary is limited, we can’t gather how she’s processing it, we don’t really know how far along in her development she is. And as an Asian woman, it infantilises her in a really racist way. The second is better because it immediately shows us that Cass understands how language works. She’s processing it into the structure of What is she doing, Where is she doing it, Why is she doing it, and When is she doing it and conveying it as efficiently as possible with the words she knows. It’s deliberate, she knows where the gaps are so she focuses on efficiency rather than wasting time trying to figure out how to frame things. And in social scenarios rather than pausing between a few words, when she’s actually practicing it’d make more sense for her to pause between sentences and respond in a relatively longer way, because she doesn’t need to rush it.
Honestly she should talk quite similar to how Batman does a lot of the time.
I always figured that, since she's a perfectionist at heart, she'd insist at trying to speak in perfect diction every time, even if it takes a bit longer. But it's a *really* good point that, out in the field, she'd focus on speed and efficiency instead.
And that last sentence is an extremely strong point too.
Jason does not think the explosion of Bludhaven is a joke or a good thing, and it DRIVES ME UP A WALL when people take a single frame out of context to say he does. Let's break down his reactions in this shot across Batman 649 and 650 drawn by Eric Battle:
Startled/Shocked:
Grimacing:
Somber:
Performatively Cocky / Baiting for a Reaction
Performance slipping away to a very unhappy smile bordering on a grimace:
Smile slips away fully leaving sad, bitter eyes/brow:
Because Jason IS startled and horrified by the bombing of Bludhaven, but everything in his plan and his second life has been building to this moment. This is the moment he will see if he's more important than everything else to Bruce or die in the learning. He cannot let it be derailed for anything. He needs Bruce to focus in on him and the scenario. No distractions. If the ultimatum goes well, they can worry about Bludhaven together after. But now, he needs to keep baiting Bruce and keeping his focus on him. That does NOT mean he thinks Bludhaven's destruction is a joke! If you look at Battle's frankly excellent use of expression in this scene, it's so clear that is what he says but not what he feels.
i think everyone has a version of gotham in their heads and i want to slowly draw mine...starting off with one of jason's safe houses.
in the comics it's super clean and modern but in my mind it's a bit industrial too. and no way it's going to be that neat if roy crashes there from time to time - i've seen how roy lives, i don't think he knows how to clean
my interpretation of jaytim has evolved more and more as i analyze the comics myself.
(massive yapperism warning)
surface level understanding of them for me is that they're brothers, because bruce has adopted them both as sons, so therefore they are. i have nothing against this, as it's not wrong. but again, it's like tip of the ice berg
if u dig a little deeper then you know the first thing you'd know about these two is that they have a lot of Violent History (ie murder attempts).
a little more then you know jason doesn't have the best opinion of tim from the get go (literally every media ever), and neither does tim. in modern comics, tim is more a jason apologist. he doesn't blame jason's death on jason's incompetence but on batman (see: knightmare robin). however, 2000s comics would feature timbin victim blaming jason and going out of his way to prove that he's better than jason to batman (because bruce doesn't really want another robin to die in that suit again).
this is where the split usually is for a lot of both jaytim and jay&tim fans.
post n52, jason and tim are depicted in a more friendly, 'brotherly' way despite literally everything that ever happened. personally, it's just a shit transition. they were at each other's throats at every given moment prior to to all this and then n52 comes up with the rewrite that tim has never been robin but red robin because of jason.... ofc they retconned this now. this is also probably where the whole "jaybin is tim's robin" very popular fanon comes from..
there's also wfa. that's... its own separate issue.
whether you're batfam or batcest, you either lie on the side of the batfamily is one big all nice family no matter how fucked up their history is, or in the side of liking their dysfunctional relationship that is just a litte too nuanced to label them all as a typical found family dynamic.
dick is damian's brother, but there's also interpretations of him as being seen as his father
there's dick and tim as brothers, dick and jason as brothers, but jason and tim aren't decidedly brothers.
bruce sees both as his sons but they don't see each other as brothers.
this is where jaytim writers are having a field day on.
this is where most jay&tim fans kinda dont like it anymore. they rlly like the "jaybin is tim's robin" idea a lot, especially the woobified tim interpretations of being a helpless victim vs big bully bro jason who warms up to the kid. it's either little brother tim who wants to integrate jason back to the family or it's jason feeling guilty over what he did to im and he tries to make up for it. or both.
(ngl that sounds hot in a different context. oh wait. i wonder why that is)
im not saying jaytim isn't notorious for that idea either. im not old enough in this fandom to know which actually started which agenda.
however, most jaytims ive read vs jay&tim has jason and tim in a more equal footing dynamic instead of the imbalanced big bro vs lil bro thing going on. i find it fascinating that them being on equal ground is more prevalent in batcest than in batfam so far. the closest i can get with jay&tim equals is .. funnily wfa.
my conclusion to this is that jaytim as brothers or not is up to whatever anybody wants it to be. dc canon is as solid as wet sand at this point.
if you ask me, jason and tim's brotherhood is as flimsy as the paper bruce signed on.
it doesn't automatically view the other as a sibling, especially after a lot of the shit that happened. to me, jason isn't obligated to integrate himself back into the batfam. i dislike that anyways, mostly bc it's the very rocky ass foundation of jason's writing failing to stick to an actual character development since like... 2005 probably. i have a love-hate relationship with batfam jason todd. on one hand, i do want jason to be loved and have a family again, on the other, the bat clan fucked up the ball way too much—especially bruce, mostly its bruce, it's always you, you freaky old man—for it to work out in the long run and i need jay to be fucking free of them. tim isn't obligated to view jason as a brother either. their relationship never started in that sense anyways, unlike dick and tim. even dick and jason, who didn't treat other that warmly, are brotherly to me.
jason and tim are brotherly. if you squint. and like hope. they're cute tho why tf have i beeen insane over them since last year?
i enjoy them as brothers. i enjoy them as lovers. i enjoy them as both at the same time. that's the great thing about them <333
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ur telling me batman (a hero whose power is like 65% fear 35% money) has a villain who is all about weaponizing fear and he’s not the main villain? ur telling me batman (man with a secret identity so strong that there are questions of who the real person is at the end of the day and whose entire creed is about stopping One Bad Day™️) has a villain who is his childhood friend that has physically separated his dual violent-nonviolent nature and is all about duality and chance and he’s not the main villain? ur telling me batman (man with strong ideas about the Right Way to stop crime and who emerged from the destruction of his own family structure) has a villain who is his undead son/former sidekick who he couldn’t save and now disagrees with the way to address crime in gotham and he’s not the main villain? ur shitting me about this clown guy right
So, a thing that didn't really register until just now...
It's right before Janet's funeral, and Tim has one hell of a nightmare. It's old style art, from Batman rather than Tim's solo run, and Tim doesn't really look like Tim as we all think of him. So it's probably why my brain glazed over it. But he's watching a mock version of the funeral, seeing himself in attendance.
Regardless of his opinions of Bruce and Dick while awake, in his dream, he says that both of them are monsters, and starts clawing at them, wanting them to take their masks off.
Except he gets them off, only for them to still have their masks on underneath. Some pretty heavy symbolism there.
But...
He also demands himself to show what he's hiding. Except Tim is Tim at the funeral, and not Robin...
And Funeral Tim starts ripping off his face to show the Joker beneath.
It's a wet drippy face, that matches the Joker art on Jason's mother's tomb stone, even if it's not the most typical to modern standards Joker look.
*** Let's also note that this issue came out in 1990, and so Batman Beyond wasn't a thing yet, let alone the concept of Joker Junior Timmy. So in retrospect this is probably a lot more gasp and cringe worthy to more modern readers.
But also, Tim calling Janet Mommy, rather than mom, mum, or mother 😭
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