OH my god, youâre an actual idiot.Â
People die by firearms at the same rate as they did before ban went into effect.
If the fucking crime being comitted by guns is just being fucking comitted with different weapoins, it doesnât fucking lower the crime rate you FUCKING RETARD.Â
âAustralia is still without gunsâÂ
There are more guns in Australia than before the buyback/ban.
From a report prepared for the Australian Parliament:
âThe buyback resulted in more than 1 million firearms being handed in and destroyed, reducing gun ownership from 3.2 to 2.2 million guns. But since then there has been a steady increase in the number of privately owned guns. By 2010, the total number of privately owned guns was back to the level in 1996.Â
While Australiaâs population grew by 19 percent between 1997 and 2010, the total number of guns soared by 45 percent. If gun control advocates are correct, gun crimes or suicides should have plunged in 1997 but gradually increased after that. But that is not the pattern that we observe.
The pattern from firearm suicides can be seen in Figure A.2 While it is true that firearm suicides did fall after the buyback, they was falling for an entire decade prior to the buyback. Indeed the rate of firearm suicides was falling at about the same rate after the buyback as they were before hand. After the buyback, there was no sudden drop and then an increase.
Figure B shows how homicides have varied over time. This pattern is again inconsistent with what gun control advocates would predict. There is more variability year to year than for suicides. Nonetheless, we can still make out the trend lines. Prior to 1996, there was already a clear downward in firearm homicides, and this pattern continued after the buyback. It is hence difficult to link the decline to the buyback. Again, as with suicides, both non-firearm and firearm homicides fell by similar amounts. In fact, the trend in non-firearms homicides shows a much larger decline between the pre- and post-buyback periods. This suggests that crime has been falling for other reasons. Note that the change in homicides doesnât follow the change in gun ownership â there is no increase in homicides as gun ownership gradually increased. The reason that some people who look at this data for firearm suicides and homicides conclude that the buyback was beneficial comes from a simple specification error. They look at the average firearm suicide and homicide rates before and after the buyback, but donât look carefully at the how these rates were declining before the buyback occurred.
Figure C illustrates the frequency of armed robbery before and after the gun buybacks.4 If armed robberies varied positively with the number of guns per capita, robbery should have fallen and then increased. Yet, the opposite happened: the armed robbery rate right soared right after the buyback and then gradually declined. Indeed, over the next eleven years, there is only one year after the buyback where the armed robbery rate was lower than it was in 1995, the year immediately before the buyback.â
Seven shot in the Monash University shooting in 2002.
Seven shot in Hectorville siege in 2011.
5 killed Hunt family in 2014.
Childers Palace Backpackers fire. 23rd of June 2000, Childers, Queensland. Arson attack by Robert Paul Long, which killed 15 international backpackers.
Churchill Fire 7 February 2009, Churchill, Victoria. Arson attack by Brendan Sokaluk that killed 10 people, during the Black Saturday bushfires period.
Lin family murders 18th of July 2009, North Epping, New South Wales. Blunt instrument attack that killed 5 members of the Lin family.
Quakers Hill Nursing Home Arsonry, 18 November 2011, Sydney, NSW
Logan shooting, 22 October 2014 Logan, Victoria
Sydney Siege, 15 - 16 December 2014, Sydney, NSW
Cairns child killings, December 2014
Douglas Crabbe - Truck driver deliberately crashed his truck into a hotel, killing five and badly wounding 16.
Russell Street Bombing - 23 wounded when a car bomb ignites outside a Police Building. One of the wounded, a female police officer, died later of injuries from the explosion.
Sydney Hilton bombing - Two garbage men were killed and 12 passers-by were injured by a bomb planted in a garbage bin outside the Sydney Hilton Hotel in 1978. A police officer who was wounded died later.
So first of all, get fucked  because thereâs literally no correlation between the ban and the decrease in homicides, robberies, or suicides, as per the Australian Crime Prevention Research study on the effects of the gun ban.Â
This is just a quick rundown and will focus mainly on Australia since people mention them the most:
Gun laws fall short in war on crime
âIn 2005 the head of the New South Wales Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, Don Weatherburn, noted that the level of legal gun ownership in NSW increased in recent years, and that the 1996 legislation had had little to no effect on violenceâ
The British Journal of Criminology
Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?
âIn 2006, the lack of a measurable effect from the 1996 firearms legislation was reported in the British Journal of Criminology. Using ARIMA analysis, Dr Jeanine Baker and Dr Samara McPhedran found no evidence for an impact of the laws on homicide.â
Social Science Research Network SSRN
Mass Shootings in Australia and New Zealand: A Descriptive Study of Incidence
âThat study found that in the period 1980â1996, both countries experienced mass shootings. The rate did not differ significantly between countries. Since 1996-1997, neither country has experienced a mass shooting event despite the continued availability of semi-automatic longarms in New Zealand. The authors conclude that âthe hypothesis that Australiaâs prohibition of certain types of firearms explains the absence of mass shootings in that country since 1996 does not appear to be supported⌠if civilian access to certain types of firearms explained the occurrence of mass shootings in Australia (and conversely, if prohibiting such firearms explains the absence of mass shootings), then New Zealand (a country that still allows the ownership of such firearms) would have continued to experience mass shooting events.â
Australian Institute of Criminology
Comparing international trends in recorded violent crimeÂ
The cost of the reduction in gun crime here is negligible compared to the increases in all the other crimes.Â
You can see the violent crime rate (sexual assault, homicide, robbery, and assault) for the United States has been dropping after looser gun laws and higher ownership. England & Wales on the other hand has seen an increase after their ban, along with Australia.Unfortunately, they didnt continue to track these trends past 2004 and compare them (nothing stopping you from getting the numbers yourself and punching them into a new chart), but at least they got 8 years worth of data and the overall 34 year trend to compare it too.
Factors people ignore when pushing Australian, UK, or Japanese gun controlÂ
There are many factors anti-gun people like to ignore when propping up their smug âother countriesâ arguments. Some of those factors are:
Japan, Australia, and the UK are island nations with no bordering countries
Guns and other illegal things like drugs are very difficult to smuggle in compared to the ease of connected countries like USA and Mexico
Different politics and policies
Different issues concerning the country and people
Different history of firearms and civilian ownership and founding
Different rates of gun ownership and guns per capita even when adjusted for population
Different environmental and economic factors
UK and Australia still have firearm problems and home manufacturing
Other crimes are higher and rose after bans (Japan suicide, UK knives, etc)
The cost of reduced gun crime (gun crime goes down slightly, most other crimes increase greatly)
I keep hearing people say that the US should adopt Australiaâs gun control policy and I donât think they have really thought about the big picture of that plan.Australia had far less guns per person and people in their country did not live in a society that was brought up respecting The 2nd Amendment. Â The culture of Australia is very different than that of the culture of America when it comes to gun ownership and self defense.Because of this, the Australian government was able to buy back 631,000 guns at the estimated price of about $500,000,000. You read that correctly, 500 MILLION.And even after all of that, it still did nothing to prevent violent crime and criminals in Australia still have access to illegal guns, despite being an island country that isnât bordered by other countries with high violent crime rates and rampant with illegal drug cartels.
There are over 360,000,000 legally owned firearms in America.  If we go by Australiaâs numbers ($792.39 per gun), these guns would cost our government$285,261,489,698.89to buy back.  Almost 300 BILLION dollars, assuming that every gun owner voluntarily turns in their guns⌠ Which is a very slim to nothing chance.
Another thing I notice is that any noticeable crime rate drops are often credited to recent gun control measures. But you cant really attribute the drops to the gun control laws when no one bothers to look at previous years crime rate trends. If crime is already dropping without gun control, how can you honestly attribute falling crime rates to gun control after you enact it? Look at the UK for exampleÂ
As you can see, England and Wales had already hit their recent all time high in crime and was in the process of their down trend when gun control was passed a year later in 1996. It eventually took them 9 more years to reach average crime levels back in the 80â˛s when they didnt have their gun bans and crime was much lower.
You may as well blame the weather for causing or reducing crime at this point. Also take into account how they never really mention other countries outside of Japan Australia or the UK. What of Russia? Switzerland? Canada? Mexico? Serbia? Yemen? Finland? There are many countries with total or severe bans with rampant crime including gun crime and there are countries with pretty lax laws with little crime.
 They also act like gun crime is the single most important facet of crime in general. Gun crime is rather small everywhere compared to other forms like rape and general homicide including the USA when other crimes are much more common. People praise UKâs gun ban and credit it with dropping gun crime (even though looking at rates prior to ban shows a down trend already happening before the ban) as other crime goes up. People also donât take into account the differences in crime rates between countries considered to be safe, and the USA.Â
Despite all our guns, our homicide rate is 4.7 Its not even double that of the UK who sits at 2.6.
The USA has 13x more guns per capita compared to the UK, with only 1.8x more homicide.Â
This is significant. If guns caused homicide, our rate compared to the UK should have the USA at 34.9 or 44.4 if we compare to Japan.
We would be the 9th and 5th most dangerous country in the world out of 218 countries, beating out Zimbabwe, South Africa Rwanda, Mexico, Nigeria, Colombia and other African and South American nations. Instead we are 111th place. Guns are clearly not the problem.
More than 20,000 Canadian gun-owners have publicly refused to register their firearms. Â Many others (as many as 300,000368) are silently ignoring the law. Â
The provincial governments of Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba have dumped both the administration and the enforcement of all federal gun-control laws right back into Ottawaâs lap, throwing the Canadian government into a paper civil war.
And all at a cost more than 1,646% the original projected cost (the original cost was estimated at 5% of all police expenditures in Canada). Â "The gun registry as it sits right now is causing law abiding citizens to register their guns but it does nothing to take one illegal gun off the street or to increase any type of penalty for anybody that violates any part of the legislation,â according to Al Koenig, President, Calgary Police Association.â Â We have an ongoing gun crisis, including firearms-related homicides lately in Toronto, and a law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them,â according to Toronto police Chief Julian Fantino.
The system is so bad that six Canadian provinces (British Columbia, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Nova Scotia, and Ontario) are refusing to prosecute firearm owners who fail to register.
A bill to abolish the registry has been tabled (introduced) in the Canadian Parliament, which if passed, would eliminate the registry completely.
A Saskatchewan MP who endorsed the long gun registry when first proposed has introduced legislation to abolish it stating that, â[the registry] has not saved one life in Canada, and it has been a financial sinkhole⌠absolutely useless in helping locate the 255,000 people who have been prohibited from owning firearms by the courts.â
Number of guns per capita by country
List of countries by intentional homicide rate
Gun Ownership & Correlation in OECD Countries for Suicide & Homicide
No correlation between homicide and gun ownership rates for OECD countries
No correlation between suicide and gun ownership rates for OECD countries
No correlation between homicide and gun ownership rates between states in the USA
No correlation between household gun ownership, income, and poverty between the states in the USA
Gun control largely ineffective in preventing crime
The notion that âless guns= less crimeâ isnât true, what part of this arenât you understanding?Â
People with concealed carry licenses are: 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public
You cite a âblack marketâ running up the prices of guns in Australia, but forget that Australia is an island with very controlled ports that make it nearly impossible to smuggle goods - this isnât the case with the US.
âSo I said, âJust tell me how it really is guys, how do criminals get guns?âAgent Charles Mulham tossed his head as he asked, âWhere to begin?âI replied, âHow about with how much handguns go for on the black market?â
Agent Mulham said, âWell, a quality pistol like a Glock might go for double or triple retail. Lower-quality guns, however, are often worth only $100 or $200 more than retail.â
Agent Mulham and the other two agentsâJohn Curtis and Jason Zamaloffâall weighed in and agreed there is no precise formula for what handguns go for on the street, but basically guns are so readily available the black-market price is typically just a few hundred dollars more than retail.â
It hasnât worked for drugs - instead itâs generated a market that makes literal BILLIONS a year and moves so much product that itâs easily produced and moved. The âwar on drugsâ hasnât even made a dent.
It hasnât worked for alcohol - prohibition was such a massive failure that as a result of the black market created for alcohol when it was banned, organized crime not only skyrocketed, in some places entire cities were under the control of crime syndicates.
Youâre also so focused on getting rid of the method that youâve totally blown your ass out ignoring that when guns are illegal, crime continues with other easily attainable weapons, or illegal weapons are simply purchased and used.
You also say that items that can be used in potential mass murders should be restricted. Â Well, hereâs a list of murders that I found with a quick Google search where the tool used by the murderer was not a gun.
Childer Palace Backpackers Hostel fire (arson; 15 dead)
Churchill Fire (arson; 10 dead)
Lin family muirders (blunt instrument; 5 dead)
Quakers Hill Nursing Home fire (arson; 11 dead)
Cairns child killings (stabbing; 8 dead)
Here are some more examples of mass murder done without guns from around the world:
Bath, Michigan - 45 dead and - 58 injured (bomb)
Oklahoma City, OK - 168 confirmed dead - 680+ injured (bomb)
Daegu, South Korea - 192 Dead and 151 injured (arson)
Denver, CO - 45 Dead - (bomb)
Cologne, Germany - 10 Dead - 25 injured (home-made flamethrower)
Apeldoorn, Netherlands - 8 dead - 10 injured (car)
Jerusalem, Israel - 4 Dead - 30+ injured (bulldozer)
Hebei, China - 17 Dead - 20-30 injured (tractor)
Shijiazhuang, China - 108 Dead - 38 injured (bomb)
New York City, New York - 87 Dead - 6 injured (arson)
Honzhong, China - 9 Dead - 11 injured (knife)
Nanping, China - 8 Dead - 5 Injured (knife)
Tokyo, Japan - 7 Dead - 10 Injured (truck and knife)
Seoul, South Korea - 6 Dead - 7 Injured (arson and knife)
Yeah - Iâm sure a gun ban will really put the âDays of Columbineâ behind us. Youâll be happy to hear that, by the by, the Columbine shooting was perpetrated with one of the cheapest and notorious HAND GUNS in existence, the tech nine, which was in effect a semi-auto pistol with an open bolt - a terrible idea if there ever was one because it made it easily up-gradable to fire full-auto, and was the gun of choice for many gang members back in the day because of how cheap it was to buy. Also completely illegal to modify, but hey - those bans, amirite?Â
Chances of being shot or killed based on firearm deaths and population count:
Death by gun, suicide excluded:
0.0032%
Death by gun, suicide included:
0.0095%
Death in a mass shooting alone:
0.000032%
Injury by gun, no death:
0.024%
Death of injury by gun including suicide:
0.033%
Gun deaths and injuries etc based off general stats used by anti gun people, rather than exact numbers from each year because its faster and easier to do. Going by exact yearly figures would result in very little change to the average numbers used above.
Guns compared to other ways you can die:
Unintentional fall deaths:
Deaths per 100,000 population: 8.4
Motor vehicle traffic deaths:
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.9
Unintentional poisoning deaths:
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.7
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.9
All Drug poisoning deaths:
Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.4 (2010)
All firearm deaths (suicide included):
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.3
All firearms deaths (suicide excluded):
Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.6
Firearm deaths broken down completely:
3.6 for homicide
6.3 for suicide
0.30 for unintentional
0.10 undetermined
10.3 for deaths total in general of 3.6 for homicide only. You are more likely to trip and die than be killed by a gun. Cars kill more than guns but are not even protected by the constitution and isnât a right, and are less regulated than guns.Â
Many people will also cite mass shootings as a reason that guns are evil and should be banned, but this assertion also falls flat and looks ridiculous when put into perspective. Â While these stories draw media attention and are absolutely horrible, you seem to have casually and conveniently left out the part where these attacks account for less than even one quarter of 1% of Americaâs overall murder rate. Â About 0.2% to be more exact.
Meanwhile, just as deadly mass stabbings as most school shootings.Â
If the mantra âmore guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less deathâ were true, broad cross-national comparisons should show that nations with higher gun ownership per capita consistently have more death. Nations with higher gun ownership rates, however, do not have higher murder or suicide rates than those with lower gun ownership. Indeed many high gun ownership nations have much lower murder rates. (p. 661)
hahahahah your Washington Post article about gun ownership?Â
âAccording to the survey, which was conducted among 1,001 Americansâ
There are 322,762,018 people in the US. Your survey covered .000310% of the total population of the United States.
Meanwhile, from the Forbes article you chose to (hahahahaha) try to refute with your .00031% sample size:
âA couple of new studies reveal the gun-control hypestersâ worst nightmareâŚmore people are buying firearms, while firearm-related homicides and suicides are steadily diminishing. What crackpots came up with these conclusions? One set of statistics was compiled by the U.S. Department of Justice. The other was reported by the Pew Research Center.
According to DOJâs Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. gun-related homicides dropped 39 percent over the course of 18 years, from 18,253 during 1993, to 11,101 in 2011. During the same period, non-fatal firearm crimes decreased even more, a whopping 69 percent. The majority of those declines in both categories occurred during the first 10 years of that time frame. Firearm homicides declined from 1993 to 1999, rose through 2006, and then declined again through 2011. Non-fatal firearm violence declined from 1993 through 2004, then fluctuated in the mid-to-late 2000s.
And where did the bad people who did the shooting get most of their guns? Were those gun show âloopholesâ responsible? Nope. According to surveys DOJ conducted of state prison inmates during 2004 (the most recent year of data available), only two percent who owned a gun at the time of their offense bought it at either a gun show or flea market. About 10 percent said they purchased their gun from a retail shop or pawnshop, 37 percent obtained it from family or friends, and another 40 percent obtained it from an illegal source. The March Pew study, drawn from numbers obtained from the Bureau of Justice Statistics and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, also found a dramatic drop in gun crime over the past two decades. Their accounting shows a 49 percent decline in the homicide rate, and a 75 percent decline of non-fatal violent crime victimization. More than 8 in 10 gun homicide victims in 2010 were men and boys. Fifty-five percent of the homicide victims were black, far beyond their 13 percent share of the population.â
From your link, Â âfirearm homicide ratesâ
Youâre still focusing solely on the fact that in places where guns are available, the METHOD of homicide involves guns more often - not that homicides in general are more common. THEY ARENâTÂ
From 1994 - 2004, there were strict national gun control laws in place in America. Â They included most of the laws that are being proposed now. Â An âassault weaponsâ ban. Â Magazine capacity limits. Â All of that.
IT WAS A COMPLETE FAILURE.
Thereâs literally no correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates
We were done a long time ago, lol, but you just had to try again.
