Jonathan Frakes and Brent Spiner

@theartofmadeline

Love Begins
Not today Justin
šŖ¼

Discoholic šŖ©

Jimmy Eat World
hello vonnie

cherry valley forever
Claire Keane
let's talk about Bridgerton tea, my ask is open


Product Placement
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2025 on Tumblr: Trends That Defined the Year
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PUT YOUR BEARD IN MY MOUTH
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@trekessayist
Jonathan Frakes and Brent Spiner

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Star Trek: Starbase 777
Synopsis
In the year 2415, Starbase 777 sits at the fringes of Federation, Klingon, and Romulan space. Starfleet-owned, it serves as a point of cultural exchange, research, and mutual defence between Khitomer Alliance species. Will your character help to pave the way forward in this time of prosperity, or will they come face-to-face with those who seek to disrupt it?
What We Offer
Find yourself aboard a DS9-inspired starbase and its assigned starship, with channels for work and entertainment alike.
Write your character at work or relax with slice-of-life RP, and use roles to help you find someone who will match your ideal length of replies and level of literacy.
Utilise multiple pages of assets for character creation, with an admin team on hand to bring your character to life. Write a crewmember, run your own business as a civilian, or write typically-restricted species on exchange from another faction.
Take part in large-scale events (defence of the station, raids against enemies, researching planets, and more); meet your colleagues in social events, or explore your own character in multiple AUs. Request personal plots at any time, ran just for you and tailored to help your character develop.
Join in with multiple OOC channels for for chatting and image sharing, all within a safe and LGBTQ+ friendly space.
Join Us Here!
Star Wars is Greek; Star Trek is Roman.Ā
The comments have very valid points, and if you see this reblog, you should read them as well, but the initial idea was that Star Wars has a lot of focus on individual heroism - there are teams saving the day, but in the end the OT is centered on Lukeās personal struggle with himself and the Dark Side, and thereās much more of the sense that a single person can affect the galaxy with wits and/or a lightsaber - itās more Iliadic or Odyssean.Ā
Star Trek, on the other hand, is about crew cohesion and bringing the ideals and material benefits of the Federation to other worlds, and serving the Federation or your crew above yourself, which feels like the ideals of Republican Rome - youāre not going to get Scaevola, sacrificing his hand, not for personal ideals but to show the virtues of his people, in Star Wars, but you might in Trek.Ā
Every ship captain we see in Star Trek (but especially Picard) is a philosopher-king, while Star Wars has the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire.
I guess you can go either way with this question, depending on whether youāre comparing the series to Greek vs. Roman art or Greek vs. Roman politics.
I love finding things like this on this site. Itās like coming across graduate-level discussions free-range
i do get why people critique star trek for having not very 'alien' aliens but i also think it's based on a kinda narrow understanding of what makes an interesting alien character. two lil thoughts. a) trek, as a tv show reliant on mostly practical effects, is not going to be able to do what, say, animation can do with character design. every medium has strengths and weaknesses and it seems a lil silly to not take that into account b) more importantly, i'm less interested in characters that LOOK alien than characters who FEEL alien, that is, who have points of view and experiences that are fundamentally different from humans. odo and jadzia, for example, look a lot less alien than, say, hemmer from snw, and i do like hemmer, but except for his rarely-mentioned psychic abilities, what makes his experience of the world different from any of the human characters? meanwhile, odo and jadzia come from species with different understandings of individuality and consciousness, who can experience things their human counterparts can't (and vice versa in odo's case), and this constantly influences their storylines, choices, and perspectives on the world. even in tos, you have one-off aliens like the horta and medusans that are about as far from humans as you can get on a '60s tv budget. the prophets, even as they sometimes appear as humans, are never really 'humanized' (except maybe a tiny bit at the very end) tl;dr i don't really care if trek aliens are visually alien so much as if they're conceptually alien, and I think you can do that even when your alien is just a human with funky ears or whatever!
Have you seen Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (1993-1999)?
Yes
Partially
No, but I've heard of it
Never heard of it

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Star Trek poll time! Which Starfleet division would you be in?
Command
Tactical
Science
Medical
Operations
Engineering
Security
Intelligence
Civilian
Are we gonna have to have the Don't Draw Green Spock conversation again.
Like at this point if you've A. Been in the trek fandom for longer than 2 seconds and/or B. Have any Jewish friends we all know why this is bad, right. Like we've all heard it. Do you guys just forget every so often
Deep sigh. Hi if you've been in the trek fandom for <2 seconds and/or don't know any Jewish people, Vulcans tend to have olive toned skin in canon & you might be tempted to exaggerate this, on account of their blood being green, to make them look more alien, but this has been widely regarded as a Bad Move as Spock's original actor Leonard Nimoy is Jewish & green skin has a long history in antisemitic caricatures (think like witches and goblins etc etc.) so you can see how Green Spock is in Very Poor Taste, even if unintentionally. Maybe in 2024 we can finally stop doing this
Vulcans: Cooler Than You Or Hotter Than You?
As a fan of assorted Star Trek, particularly The Original Series and the reboot films, Iāve noticed that the fandom(s) canāt seem to agree about Vulcan body temperature.
It comes up a lot because Spock is often paired with humans. While many fans insist that Vulcans have a higher body temperature than humans, others are equally adamant that itās the reverse.
I myself have waffled between the two, especially after a reviewer politely disagreed with my description of Spockās skin as being hot to a humanās touch.
ā2cool4uā
So which is it? Are Vulcans hotter or colder than humans? And why is there such disagreement in the first place?
What Does Canon Say?
The idea that Vulcans are literally cool seems to originate from the episode āThe Paradise Syndrome,ā in which McCoy is examining Spock and refers to āthat green ice water you call blood.ā
Iāve always taken this to be a classic example of McCoy sarcasm, a jab at Spockās supposedly ācold-bloodedā nature and perhaps the fact that the Vulcan is acting pretty emotional at that moment.
[via]
Many fans, including two fans in the 70s by the names ofĀ Doug Drexler and Ron Barlow, interpreted the comment more literally.
Drexler and Barlow wrote a book called the Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual, which was published unofficially in 1977 as a fan work and picked up later that year by Ballantine Books for an official release.
In 1995, in Volume 11 ofĀ The Official Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Magazine, Drexler commented, āIt was an awful book, really. I cringe when I look at it now.ā
One idea about Vulcan physiology that comes from this book is a blood temperature of 91°F (32.78°C). Of course, compared to a human blood temperature of about 98.6°F (37°C), thatās pretty ding-dang cold.
Memory Alpha, the wiki for canon Star Trek works, lists information from the Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual as apocrypha - i.e., non-canonical.
But the problem isnāt that cool Vulcans arenāt canon.
The problem is that cool Vulcans donāt make biological sense.
And, sure, a lot about Star Trek, even in canon, doesnāt necessarily make a whole lot of biological sense (natural Vulcan/Human hybrids are a great example of dubious biology). But one of the things I love about Trek fandom is that weāre rad as heck when it comes to science. We like science.
So letās talk about science.
Keep reading
Who would you share quarters with if you had to? (DS9 edition)
Kira Nerys
Jadzia Dax
Odo
Quark
Julian Bashir
Worf
The O'Brien Fam
Garak
Ezri Dax
Someone else (tags/comments)
Depression made me forgot I was making these polls and that I never made the ds9 one and I just remembered? Lmfao
Sisko and his son are not included per usual. Commanding officer's/Captain's quarters are not accessible to everyone.
Augmentation as an allegory for neurodivergence, Augmentation as an allegory for queerness, Augmentation as an allegory for oppressed and erased cultures and heritage
Augmentation as an allegory for disability,
Augmentation as an allegory for trauma survival,
Augmentation as an allegory for community

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Eugenics in Star Trek: a Disabled Perspective on Genetic Augmentation
Not the essay I wanted to write, to be honest, but I was scrolling through the DS9 tag and violently reminded of the dubiousness that Augments are treated with by the writers. It has never sat right with me how Augments get treated, both in-universe and by writers.
So let me start by pointing out that I think some of the Augment storylines were really well-written, and others sucked. Enterprise's Augment storyline sticks out as the absolute worst of the bunch, though apparently that was one of the better-received storylines. But I digress.
The problem with Augments is that, of course, their concept is based in eugenics. They're established in Space Seed to be remnants of a worse time on earth, people "improved" so much by genetic alteration that they believe themselves to be the superior humans, going so far as to wish to kill other humans. They're a very clear reason why genetic augmentation as a whole was banned on earth, later carrying over to Federation law as well.
This includes ALL forms of genetic augmentation, with no nuance. This becomes especially clear when it comes to Illyrians, who are banned from joining the Federation and Starfleet despite arguably genetically augmenting their own bodies for a noble purpose.
In Deep Space Nine, this culminates in Julian Bashir having to hide his status as an Augment to be able to have a career. It's clearly a sore point for him, and he really struggles with the concept of his authenticity as a person. I'm reminded of the one post talking about how Kukalaka, his teddy bear, serves as a physical reminder that even before his father took him to be augmented, he was fixing up or "healing" his teddy bear when it was broken or "sick", that becoming a doctor was in that sense the only path that felt authentic to his personality.
The other Deep Space Nine Augment storyline involves Julian's efforts to help a group of Augments who came out of the process still "defective". Which is still a great storyline in my opinion, despite its flaws.
And I understand that the Federation attitude towards Augments is an example of an idealistic society that isn't flawless, which is in many ways what DS9 represented as a whole. So I feel the storyline is very much relevant to the series.
Still, the issues it (and later Augment storylines) presents are painful to watch, especially as a disabled person whose struggles are largely genetic issues exacerbated by their interaction with one another in my body.
In the first place, while I understand the decision to outlaw genetic modification as planet earth, or even as the Federation, because I understand why the decision was made, I don't feel that that's a proportional response to what happened in the past. As mentioned before, even beneficial genetic augmentations are banned, as seen with the Illyrians. That means that for people with genetic diseases cannot get meaningful help in a time and place where that should definitely be possible.
Looking at what I experience, should I be expected to consume painkillers my entire life? Physical therapy twice a week to keep up the strength in my muscles? Spend time having ligaments and tendons regenerated every so often? When a small genetic alteration could be a cure that doesn't require repeating? Degenerative diseases and conditions will degenerate if you don't continuously control them, even in the utopia of Star Trek.
So in the first place, the complete disallowance of genetic augmentation in the Federation is harmful. But then what do you do with people who were augmented either way, as a humane and just society? Especially when they didn't have a choice in the matter because they were a child? Do you accept them and take care of them, recognising that if you teach a child it is fundamentally different and therefore deserving of ostracisation and scorn, it will start to hate those who are different from it? Will you allow them to lead normal lives, with normal careers, like normal people? Will they be allowed to have children and start families, like normal people? Will you allow them the dignity of a peaceful life?
No, why would you? The ones that turn out poorly are tossed into a hole and forgotten about! The ones that turn out well you presumably don't hear about, because they can hide it better! Ignore the problem exists, why not? Whatever could go wrong?
Which then also becomes difficult to watch as a disabled person, because that's what the "failed" Augments are, they're disabled. Whether they display autistic traits or OCD symptoms or other mental (or physical) impairments, they are disabled. They may or may not have been disabled before their augmentation, but they certainly are now. And so their treatment becomes an issue of how the Federation treats its disabled citizens. And the answer seems to be: not very well!
So the ongoing storylines with Augments, and the 'organic android' storyline in Picard season 1, are two different sides of what is essentially only a debate on disability rights, and whether or not we deserve to exist. It's a conversation that gets so little nuance from the shows, but one that requires it.
The show could have gone the nuanced route. Legalise genetic augmentation so you can regulate it. Outlaw the modification of children and those who cannot consent. Give people the choice to change their bodies, should they desire or see a need to. The better you regulate it, the more you can prevent cases like the people in DS9, the more you can use the techniques to help people, the less you ostracise the people who did get augmented or who would like to get augmented.
But instead, all sides of the conversation within the series are advocating for eugenics, for genocide. Khan and his Augments, wanted to eradicate non-Augments, who they see as lesser, as inhibited, as small. Richard Bashir, and presumably the parents of the other augments, wanted to get rid of their children's disabilities and impairments. And the Federation is trying to eradicate Augments, by denying them lives, livelihoods, by ostracising and scorning them and throwing those you can visibly tell are different into a cell somewhere you don't have to think about them.
And I, as a disabled person, would simply like to watch Star Trek without being reminded that people would want me dead.
My one problem with Star Trek is that no one is ever consuming contemporary media. As in media that's contemporary for their time period. Everyone is always reading old novels and practicing classical music. They study Klingon Opera or read old Cardassian mysteries. No one is ever like really into obscure Klingon Nightcore. Nobody is reading shitty Ferengi pulp novels. There's no kids media of any kind. Where is space Sesame Street or junior novels about gaining superpowers from a warp core accident? What about comic books? Nobody is playing crappy indy holodeck games. It's always some recreation of a historical battle or just lounging in a mud pit at some alien spa. Someone give me angsty Bajoran protest music. I need some rebellious teens producing the worst most cacophonous death metal techno that they recorded in an empty cargo bay. I need contemporary pop culture in Star Trek.
I've been thinking about this post a lot and aside from the NUMEROUS comments that prove it wrong (at least partially) I do want to point out that Klingon operas are a contemporary form of media in the 24th century.
I get that the concept of "opera" calls to mind a wildly inaccessible musical genre and experience for most of us (I have seen exactly one opera in my life, many people don't even get that chance), with mostly music from previous centuries and entry tickets that cost a fortune. But in DS9 a literal Klingon opera writer is mentioned, with Martok telling Worf to go seek one out to have an opera written about his heroic deeds. It is a contemporary genre, it is widely loved by Klingons and considered a staple of Klingon culture, with studying it being mandatory in Federation schools.
It wouldn't be out of place to call Klingon operas pop culture, even. By contrast, the Klingon acid punk that gets mentioned in the comments seems like more of contemporary alt music, with punk being a term reserved for a specific kind of counterculture. Still, that is contemporary media, so it's fair to mention in this context.
So mentioning Klingon operas in a list of things that are arguably less futuristic than one would expect from people living in the 24th century (though in my opinion, the holodeck and its uses are its own form of contemporary media, kinda like fantasy novels set in medieval times) is unfair to the ongoing relevance and accessibility of the genre. Klingon opera in the 24th century is alive, it is thriving, it is popular, and it is listened to by people from all walks of life from all over the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.
(I am aware that new operas are still being written in our society as well, but that doesn't do anything to combat the general inaccessibility of the genre, making the two situations functionally incomparable.)
It does not belong in the list you mentioned, and frankly, with recorded media being as old as it is by the time of TNG/DS9/VOY/LWD, I think people would listen to it even if it wasn't still an active genre. People still listen to the Beatles, and they haven't been together since 1970. Queen is still considered one of the greatest bands of all time, and their music is still really popular, even though Freddie Mercury died over 30 years ago. Add to this another 350 years of recorded media and over 150 other species (not to mention the different cultures those species have), and what is popular and what is contemporary may simply not always overlap. But I digress.
So while I do agree with the sentiment of the post, and it would be fun to see more creativity with the different things a 24th century person might enjoy, Klingon operas are definitely a contemporary genre and do not belong on that list.
(In terms of my own suggestions: Bajoran marching/working songs, and dirges, and protest songs. Hardship is one of the biggest reasons to start singing, and by DS9 the Bajoran people are newly freed from Cardassian subjugation. How did that shape their music?)
Rewatching DS9 again and I am just so interested at how an average Bajoran would view Kira by the end of the series. How an average Cardassian would? We know that a lot of what she does is known to the Bajoran people. Shakaar mentions Furel and Lupaza bragging about her whenever they get news of the station. But lets actually take a look at this:
She is the highest ranking Bajoran on DS9 outranked only by the Emissary
Most times Sisko did anything in the capacity as the Emissary, Kira was one step behind and to the right
She was with Kai Opaka, the most widely loved and respected Bajoran, when she made her journey through the Celestial Temple and āanswered the call of the prophetsā
She was highly respected (and loved) by Vedek Bareil who was hugely popular on Bajor (he could very well have been Kai if he hadnāt taken the blame for Kai Opakaās actions during the Occupation)
She and Kai Winn had a well known feud and after Kai Winnās fall from grace at the end of the show, Kira must come out pretty great to everyone else
She is the one who found and saved the great Bajoran hero, Li Nalas, from a Cardassian work camp and then within a week saved Bajor from a civil war that had been encouraged by Cardassians.
Between her saving Li Nalas and his fellow prisoners AND finding the Ravinok and saving the Bajorans (and Cardassians and Ziyal) from the Breen mines, was she the person Bajorans turned to when searching for their lost love ones? Was she a symbol to those who kept looking for their loved ones because Kira Nerys found those thought to be lost?
She prevented ANOTHER Bajoran Civil War and helped elect Shakaar as the First Minister of Bajor. Again being associated with a widely loved and respected member of Bajoran society.
Kira was in charge of DS9 during Dominion Occupation and started up the stationās resistance cell
She was permitted to use the Orb of Time, one of Bajorās most sacred objects
She was the chosen by a Prophet to be their vessel during the Reckoning with the Pah-Wraithā¦and the KAI was on the same station. But it was KIRA who was chosen
She plays chicken with a Romulan fleetā¦and wins!
She was a key figure in the Dominion War. She started as a resistance fighter who was assigned to a falling apart, unimportant old Cardassain station and becomes the Colonel of the single most important port in the Alpha Quadrant. She is the right hand of the Emissary. She is widely respected by many beloved figures in Bajoran society.
And this list is just the most public things that have happened to her. This doesnāt even take into account any of the stories about her that involve her dealing with whatever BS the Star Trek universe decides to throw at the characters that week. Klingons beam in and fight? Gets stabbed and keeps fighting. Emissary is transported to 2024? Kira is on the team that pulls him out.
By the end of season seven, do politicians on Bajor hold their breath or breathe a sigh of relief if Kira gets involved? Do Vedeks seek her out to ask her about being possessed by a prophet? About her experiences with the Orbs? About Kai Opakaās last words? Do families still grieving those missing from the Occupation petition her to look for the lost?
And how about the Cardassians?
The Cardassian government would probably never publicly admit to any time she foiled their plans, but Tekeny Ghemor tells her that she has her own section in the Cardassian Central Archives and is a public figure on Cardassia
Would the Cardassians in the Breen mine whisper their thanks among their family that Kira Nerys found them?
Tekeny Ghemor, someone who was respected enough to be considered as the face for the Cardassian resistance against the Dominion controlled Cardassian puppet government, publicly considered her his daughter/family by asking her to participate in the Shri-tal ritual and give her all of his secrets prior to his death (something highly valued in Cardassian society)
She was a part of Damarās resistance. She helped them fight the Dominion and was with Damar when he died for Cardassia. In the story of how Damar was martyred for Cardassiaās freedom from the Dominion, Kira Nerys, a Bajoran, is heavily featured.
In all Bajoran/Cardassian relations, do Cardassians seek to involve Kira as a woman of her word who will treat in good faith or do they cross their fingers and hope she is nowhere near their business?
Can you tell I think about Kira Nerys a lot?
Deep Space Nine 2x5, āCardassiansā
Keiko does not have time for your space-racism, Miles.
Why is she with him
The cynical side of me would say that the answer is ābecause the show writers said soā
But I think another answer is, Because Miles proves himself open to being corrected. He isnāt too proud or defensive (or bogged down by toxic masculinity) to listen when people call him out on bigoted bullshit: he listens. Keiko is with him not because he messes up so bad sometimes, but because when he does mess up, he stops, and thinks, and behaves better in the future.
I also appreciate the comments from @firespirited and @onsomekindofstartrek on how the ethnicities of the actors of Keiko and Miles influence this scene, so be sure to check those out in the notes yāall!
Someone had to be the ābad guyā exhibiting the bigoted view for this important scene to take place, and I appreciate that Milesā actor was willing to play that role. Together, these two skilled actors create a compelling scene that demonstrates to viewers 1) that alluding to the ābad breedingā of any group is very wrong indeed in any context, and 2) that one effective method for calling out bigotry in loved ones is simply to express disgust and disappointment in them, because if they truly respect you theyāll get the message and fix their attitude.
Thereās also 1) the fact that OāBrien is saying this because his role on DS9, narratively speaking, is to be the everyman, the representative of theĀ āguy on the ground,ā the average person. The average person has these kinds of bigoted views that they donāt recognize until it is pointed out to them, and NEED to be called out.
And 2) OāBrien saying this is also a bit of character continuity - when the Cardassians were introduced in TNGāsĀ āThe Wounded,ā it also introduced that the Federation and the Cardassians had been involved in a war against one another, OāBrien being on the ground during what is commonly referred to asĀ āthe Setlik III massacre,ā where Cardassians, believing the Federation colony to be a military outpost, wound up slaughtering a population of civilians. Brutally. OāBrienās captain at the time lost his entire family in it. OāBrien later admits to a Cardassian officerĀ āI hate what I became because of youā in response to what he went through that day - when he had to kill a Cardassian soldier, the first time heād ever killed.Ā
And, particularly at this point, several years after marrying him, after living on a Cardassian-designed station for over a year, Keiko surely knows this. So she understands why he said what he said. But she is not going to condone it. Sheās not going to let that he said it get a pass. She will call him out for his words, even knowing where they come from.
And on top of that, heās saying this in front of, or near a child who was abandoned by his people on a world full of people who hate him for his species. Heās heard this, and worse, about himself all his life.
Itās one thing for Miles to let stray comments like this slip in privet conversation lightyears away from the nearest person effected by it. As has been pointed out, Keiko would understand this comes from a place of pain and trauma.
But itās another to say this about an innocent child in his presence. Or the presence of their daughter where she could learn this ugliness.
This is an excellent piece of exposition on a very important scene between these two characters. Not only does it set up the dynamic of their relationship for the rest of the show, but it also gives O'Brienās character room to question his assumptions about all Cardassians, and to realize that the average Cardassian citizen is not the evil incarnate he had made them out to be.
O'Brien does and should still hate the Cardassian military, and the Obsidian Order, but he realizes the average Cardassian citizen is not at fault for Setlik III, is not at fault for the occupation of Bajor, is not to blame for the war between Cardassia and the Federation which took place, I believe, around the beginning of TNG. Cardassia is a fascist militaristic dictatorship, and the citizens suffer just as much, though in different ways, as those Cardassia has oppressed and waged war with.
O'Brienās newfound understanding can be seen in his interactions with Gilora Rejal; heās not openly hostile, as he is whenever faced with Dukat or even Garak, because sheās a civilian scientist, and engineer like he is, just trying to get the bits and bobs of the station to function in order to achieve a goal. Hes willing to listen to her suggestions, and work alongside her (when she lets him). Even the awkward scene where itās revealed heās been flirting unknowingly with her is a huge step for him, because heās not outright disgusted like he might have been in TNG.
O'Brienās not perfect, not even as the āevery manā; but the character growth we see from him is refreshing for a straight(?) white male character from the 90s. His willingness to look past his pride and change for the better is testament to that in and of itself.
Allow for regular people to not be perfect and to grow from it, like he does. Thatās good writing.
Miles has PTSD-type issues related to Cardassians. He was in the Federation-Cardassian War. That captain he served under then had his family killed by them. Heās going to have some realistic bigoted generalizations. But Keiko calls him out on it, and she does so in a way thatās not calling him a bad person, because heās not. She knows about his issues.
And he paid attention. Thatās whatās important.
Thinking of Deep Space Nine as "the Dark Star Trek" without digging into what made Deep Space Nine work is so reductive. Like when people discuss Star Trek being "dark" now people bring up "DS9 was Dark and you loved that! Trekkies would hate it now!"
Deep Space Nine didn't work bc it was Dark and it wasn't Dark out of nowhere. Deep Space Nine is intimately tied to TNG in a way no other series is with another (Voyager could've been just as rooted in DS9, but. Y'know. Wasn't). Not only in characters, but that the show is so devoted to exploring deep cuts from TNG: the Bajorans, but also the Ferengi, long dismissed as failed villains, and the Trill, one-off aliens-of-the-week who DS9's writers turned into one of Trek's major species. The central thesis of DS9 isn't that the Trek Universe Is Fucked Up Actually. It's that things get more messy and complicated when Starfleet has to stick around and not dash off to another planet at the end of the episode
DS9 is darker than other Treks, yes, but DS9 is also the warmest, with the most grounded, human characters, not in spite of the fact that two-thirds of the cast are aliens but because of it. The writers treat alien characters as not representatives, but individuals. They treat everyone as individuals, with foibles and flaws, not as perfect, straitlaced future people. DS9's dark episodes are darker than other Treks, but also it's more willing to get silly and emotional. Only DS9 could do the "Sisko confesses to a conspiracy to get the Romulans in the war" episode, but also only DS9 could do the "a holographic lounge singer tries to get Odo and Kira together" episode right after it. Boiling the entire series down to "Deep Space Nine was the Dark Star Trek! Grimdark!" is...just not it
The central thesis of DS9 isn't that the Trek Universe Is Fucked Up Actually. It's that things get more messy and complicated when Starfleet has to stick around and not dash off to another planet at the end of the episode
Emphasizing this because there seem to be a lot of people who have only watched DS9 and are missing the point: they think that DS9 presents the Federation as an evil expansionist imperialist power no different, no morally better, than the Cardassians or the Romulans or even the Borg or the Dominion -- the only difference is that they conquer with bribes of resources and the promise of protection from the other powers. (Nice planet you got there; itād be a shame if something happened to it...) They seem to think that the Federation is just the 20th/21st-century US/ NATO/ The West with better technology, with the same dishonest self-interest and cultural arrogance, without having learned anything or done any work to live up to its ideals.
You will not understand DS9 if you donāt understand that it also believes in the ideals of TOS and TNG, but has a more realistic view about how hard it is to maintain and fight for those ideals in a complicated world. It is NOT trying to make the point that the Federation and the vision it stands for areĀ āFucked Up Actually.ā
I think itās important to remember that DS9 was the first truly serialized Trek. It bridged TVās transition from mostly episodic shows to longer-form narratives. That kind of storytelling didnāt really exist in TV, before.
I donāt even really think of DS9 as being particularly dark. Itās just that itās the first Trek that got to follow up on things that would have been one-episode plots on earlier shows. DS9 was able to show us the cost and the consequences of Federation idealism, because it had a structure that made those stories possible to tell.

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so have i ever talked about how i think what quark really truly meant by āthat man loves me. itās written all over his backā in the finale is that one of the only ways odo ever really shows his love for quark is by letting him get away with shit all the time throughout all the years theyāve known each other ? quite literally just turning his back to it. worf was like the first person to really question odo on why he lets quark get away with so much, why he gives him special treatment, why he hasnāt just put him in jail already, etc. and odo got so mad at that question because he didnāt wanna admit that quark isnāt just some criminal to him. the station literally wouldnāt be the same without him. so he lets him go. and him leaving was partly, in his own weird way, his final gift to quark. quark doesnāt have to deal with him anymore. no more odo watching his every move. no more fighting. no more games of cat and mouse. heās walking away one last time. he loves him. itās written all over his back
Okay. That shit was a little gay ngl. To tell you the truth, just watched this episode and it was a little gay ngl. Hey, can I be real with you? This was a little gay. On god.