So this is long but an addendum to point #1, advice from a lawyer on to protect people from ICE from this episode of the 5-4 podcast:
“Do you have any advice for protecting co-workers if ICE comes calling, especially for those of us who might work in a payroll or HR office?
Also what advice do you have for citizens who don't want to comply with broad racist inquiries into our legal status, but who also don't want to end up in jail or on a military plane because the ICE agents don't actually care who they're rounding up?
Yeah, this is a good question. This is on the minds of a lot of people. I cannot emphasize enough, y'all.
I cannot emphasize enough. Wherever you live right now, at least in the United States, there are organizations, there are immigrant defense, community organizations, there are immigration law firms, etc., etc., who are working on exactly this stuff. I have already seen in Austin multiple things about know your rights for immigrants, community defense, deportation defense.
So engage with the local resources that you have. But really broadly, I do think this is a really good question... So, an ICE agent or a group of ICE officers come to your workplace.
The first thing that you should do is review that agent's identification, obtain a business card. You should ask the agent to step into an office or a room that's like off a main reception area. You don't want to do like, you don't need to have this conversation out in the open because that is giving ICE agents more information always, right?
Because they're seeing who's there, they're looking around, all of that kind of stuff. Ask what the agent wants and ask for any documents that the agent has. Like, do you have a warrant?
Do you have a subpoena? This documents thing is important because it's going to tell you whether or not you need to comply with what they're asking. If the ICE agent has no documents, oh, I don't have anything to turn over to you.
I'm just here to ask some questions. I was wondering about whether or not this person got hired. I was wondering about your hiring practices in general, whatever it is.
If there are no documents that they can show you, your compliance is not required. You are not legally required to answer these questions without some sort of legal documentation that you're required to do so. That legal documentation can come in two forms.
On the other hand, they might have a subpoena. They might have a warrant. So let's talk about subpoena first.
There are different kinds of subpoenas. Judicial subpoenas are signed by a judge, administrative subpoenas are signed by an ICE official, not a judge. Your compliance is only required if it is a judicial subpoena, if it is signed by a judge.
And even in that case, your compliance is not immediately required. Your workplace might be able to challenge it in court. So the HR office, the legal office, payroll, whatever, if they're giving you, or just management, if an ICE agent is handing over saying, we have a judicial subpoena, this has been signed by a judge, a subpoena is usually asking for documents and other information, this is signed by a judge, your compliance is not immediately required.
You can say, we're going to review this and we can get back to you. If it's an administrative subpoena, not signed by a judge, it's signed by an ICE official, your compliance is not required. You can take that document, you can say, thank you so much, I'm not giving you anything today.
Your compliance is not required. That is not a judge's signature. All right, let's talk about warrants.
Warrants are a little bit like, kind of like maybe the highest form of compliance required, but warrants have internal requirements in order to be valid warrants. So if it is an administrative warrant, again, signed by an ICE official, not a judge, your compliance is not required. That is not actually a legal warrant that requires that a person turn themselves over or that evidence be turned over.
Now, if it is a judicial warrant, meaning it is signed by the judge, if it's an arrest warrant signed by a judge and it identifies your workplace where you are or that facility as the location, compliance is required. They can arrest that person in that place. Now if it's an arrest warrant without the required precise, accurate information, an arrest warrant, but it doesn't say a location or it identifies a location other than where you are, your compliance is not required.
A lot of this stuff, y'all, about like dealing with ICE, dealing with police, a lot of it, keep in your mind, I'm not going to obey in advance. They have to show you that you have to legally comply. I'm not just going to comply because somebody shows up.
These are well within your rights. Make sure that the people at your workplace know these things. Make sure that you're engaging with the resources again, that people are certainly, certainly putting together in your community right now.
Yeah, and I just want to add, back in 2020, Greyhound said they were no longer going to allow ICE to do routine checks on their buses. And then shortly thereafter, an ICE agent tried to do a routine check on a bus. And according to some witnesses, the bus driver told him to gargle my balls.
If a Greyhound bus driver can do that, you can too. Absolutely. Take strength.
Take strength from that.”
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