Tails

I saw a comment on plurality in terms of spirituality and it’s cute. It’s super cute. I love that you guys have a religion, great. So anyway, I don’t have to believe your religion. I definitely don’t have to believe they’re systems. Plural systems aren’t a thing. I will respect your right to believe spirits exist around you and with you. But you are not a system as a result of this.

I don’t know why people act like you must be against spirituality if you think spiritual “plurality” doesn’t count as a system. If that’s what you personally believe and system not culturally appropriating a culture you’re not part of… go for it. Have fun. We all have a collective religion and spiritual preference too. I’m not judging.

But you’re not a system. Your spiritual interpretation is that you have spirits or beings you communicate with in your head and that’s awesome. You’re not a system, though.

Also there's a difference between "I talk to spirits in my head" and "I share my body and brain with several people" - the second is a plural system. And not all people with CDDs are systems, or plural.

Most of my headmates identify as being souls from another universe. Two identify as gods. I disagree but, that's what they see themselves as. If we just talked to each other, I wouldn't identify us as a system. It's the fact that we literally share a life that makes us a system. My headmates front for several hours a day without me being in front, and we share front for significant periods most days too. That's not a matter of religion, but of identity. Who "I" am, the person in charge of the body and brain, is not always the same actual person. And we're very different. Different genders, sexualities, personality traits, ways of thinking and behaving, and as already mentioned, beliefs.

It doesn't matter that I don't believe they're spirits from other worlds. It wouldn't even matter if I didn't believe I'm part of a plural system - I didn't see it that way for 25+ years.

Despite that, my experience is the same: that of being part of a collection of people in the same brain who work together.

It's definitely not the exact same as being a CDD system but that's the reason there's that initial qualifier. Just like how a solar system and an operating system aren't the exact same. A traumagenic CDD system and an endogenic plural system aren't exactly the same but they're still, like solar, nervous, operating, Internal Family systems etc, a group of interconnected things.

They're similar in other ways, too though, as both CDD and nonCDD plural systems are both collections of selves in one body and brain, and each self — whether person, part, entity, or alter — take recurring control of the body they share, with accompanying changes in personality, ways of thinking and behaving, and beliefs.

I’m not really sure how to respond to this other than by generally that’s what a system is generally speaking. So I guess if you use it in that way instead of a medical term, I can understand it more (but I don’t really agree with it)

Thanks for being nice about it.

Personally I'm kinda neutral on non-CDD systems using "multiple," it depends on the headmate. Like obviously you can say "I have multiple selves" but claiming "multiplicity" or saying "I'm multiple" as a non-CDD system is iffy to me, especially when plurality is right there.

On the other hand, most of us are pro non-CDD systems calling themselves systems. In psychology, "system" has a ton of different meanings: e.g. internal family systems, personality systems, etc.

I saw a comment on plurality in terms of spirituality and it’s cute. It’s super cute. I love that you guys have a religion, great. So anyway, I don’t have to believe your religion. I definitely don’t have to believe they’re systems. Plural systems aren’t a thing. I will respect your right to believe spirits exist around you and with you. But you are not a system as a result of this.

I don’t know why people act like you must be against spirituality if you think spiritual “plurality” doesn’t count as a system. If that’s what you personally believe and system not culturally appropriating a culture you’re not part of… go for it. Have fun. We all have a collective religion and spiritual preference too. I’m not judging.

But you’re not a system. Your spiritual interpretation is that you have spirits or beings you communicate with in your head and that’s awesome. You’re not a system, though.

Also there's a difference between "I talk to spirits in my head" and "I share my body and brain with several people" - the second is a plural system. And not all people with CDDs are systems, or plural.

Most of my headmates identify as being souls from another universe. Two identify as gods. I disagree but, that's what they see themselves as. If we just talked to each other, I wouldn't identify us as a system. It's the fact that we literally share a life that makes us a system. My headmates front for several hours a day without me being in front, and we share front for significant periods most days too. That's not a matter of religion, but of identity. Who "I" am, the person in charge of the body and brain, is not always the same actual person. And we're very different. Different genders, sexualities, personality traits, ways of thinking and behaving, and as already mentioned, beliefs.

It doesn't matter that I don't believe they're spirits from other worlds. It wouldn't even matter if I didn't believe I'm part of a plural system - I didn't see it that way for 25+ years.

Despite that, my experience is the same: that of being part of a collection of people in the same brain who work together.

It's definitely not the exact same as being a CDD system but that's the reason there's that initial qualifier. Just like how a solar system and an operating system aren't the exact same. A traumagenic CDD system and an endogenic plural system aren't exactly the same but they're still, like solar, nervous, operating, Internal Family systems etc, a group of interconnected things.

They're similar in other ways, too though, as both CDD and nonCDD plural systems are both collections of selves in one body and brain, and each self — whether person, part, entity, or alter — take recurring control of the body they share, with accompanying changes in personality, ways of thinking and behaving, and beliefs.

I’m not really sure how to respond to this other than by generally that’s what a system is generally speaking. So I guess if you use it in that way instead of a medical term, I can understand it more (but I don’t really agree with it)

Thanks for being nice about it.

“You’re looking for any excuse for your hate to seem ‘okay’” okay yeah so explain the racism. Explain how many (not all) pro-endos accept transracial people but anti-endos do not tolerate this bullshit. Explain why when we were on discord we were all tone policed. Explain why our only pro endo friend treated us like a spectacle. Explain why pro-endo communities are notoriously hush hush about CDDs being ugly and hurtful sometimes and censoring it. Explain why some of them actively encouraged us to research into OEA/RAMCOA without the fucking warning that if we do that “hey dude there’s a chance you’re going to die!” which activated programs for like 2 weeks straight on and off

Also it’s a very normal trauma response to dislike a group of people (from a non-minority— I think it gets iffy once it’s marginalized groups) that fucked you up. I don’t trust white people because of what they did to this system. I don’t trust fictional communities and game communities because of what they did to this system. Finally I don’t trust pro-endo communities for what they did to this system. Typical trauma response, I don’t see why a trauma response to this absolute bullshit is “spreading hate” god forbid someone have a trauma response against certain groups out of fear for their fucking lives

I don't see the "most if not all" pro endos accept transracial ids or any transids in that matter that you seem to encounter in all pro endos. that has nothing to do with being pro endo, or with syscourse at all. some people are just like that, regardless of their syscourse stance. trans ids are another beast entirely, another community that is unrelated to the plural and/or system community. the pro endos I follow (and I follow a lot) condemn that type of behavior. you're looking for excuses here.

with the racism... I see racism in both sides. even the alterhuman and otherkin community is guilty of this. everyone is guilty of this, because unfortunately racism is integrated in everything, and most people have internalised racism. but, again, the racism has nothing to do with being pro endo. both sides can be racist. because individuals can be racists. it's not something inherent for one community or another.

explain why when we were on discord we were all tone policed

I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about here, English is not my first language. are you talking about discord the app? because then that will have to do with whatever servers you're in, and I'm not sure what the endogenic or pro endogenic community has to do with any of this. I encourage you to see individuals as owners of their own actions, and not blame the entire community they belong to. again, bad people, not bad communities. I'm not saying the pro endo side is perfect. (tw: sui mention) but, from what I see, is the anti endo side who is telling people to kill themselves and sending death threats. the anti endos are notorious for this.

as with your pro endo friend, it sounds to me that maybe he has his own problems and it has nothing to do with him being pro endo. if he treated you like a spectacle, you deal it with him and don't blame the community he's part to who doesn't have anything to do with it.

the actions of one individual have nothing to do with the community.

I thought this meme would be funny with build a bears lol. Where are u sitting? :3