#violent moc

Anonymous asked:

Hello I have a fantasy setting with several different cultures, which are based on real ones. I have a pirate group consisting of people with different ethnicities and most of them are from the south east coded region (continental part closer to India/Sri Lanka and islands have several other inspirations etc.). Their pirate group has smth like a “robin hood” ideology — stealing from the rich and giving to the poor and stuff. I know that there is a stereotype of people of color being criminals and violent in general, and I remember reading about other south asian coded pirates on your page, but would their ideology make any difference? Like it is still messy, out-of-the-law and all, but comes with a selfless idea in mind. Another problem needed to consider: I don’t have much characters from the mentioned region and the pirate gang has kind of an episodic appearance. Would their group than be considered a tokenism? Also one of the pirates falls into the “big scary dark-skinned warrior” territory and I don’t know if his “softer inner side” would make this stereotype less harmful. Should I change his ethnicity or having other people on the team will make it less problematic? That’s also the question applied to the whole pirate team in mind. p.s.: sorry if I made some mistakes or wrote in a kind of jumbled style — I’m still learning the language (im russian)

Breaking up my response into three distinct sections, for each of the different potential problems raised here.

Also, before we begin, a gentle correction: the regions you have mentioned (India and Sri Lanka) fall geographically under South Asia, not South East Asia. 

Q. 1 “Do the South Asian coded pirates play into racialized stereotypes, i.e. people of color being associated with crime, violence etc. ?”

It is always good to be vigilant when basing your fantasy characters off real-world cultures, more so when they are not not white. However, while you could rightfully argue that racial coding in popular fantasy often negatively targets minority groups, you should also be aware that stereotypes can be vastly different across various communities. 

Hell, South Asian literary/cultural history is rife with contradictions: the Wikipedia page for South Asian stereotypes has a separate sub-section for region-specific historical prejudices.

Even a cursory look at Indian literature, media and cultures will reflect the historical tensions between various communities, and how such tensions shape popular representations.

Before you start to go down the rabbit hole of worrying about potential stereotyping, you'll need to do the following:

Be specific about which exact cultures/communities you are drawing from.

“South Asia” is an enormous region, comprising several countries; India alone has more ethno-linguistic and cultural diversity than can be homogenized by a general “brown people” identifier.

I am hazarding a guess that you are taking inspiration from the Dravidian ethnolinguistic groups–the Tamil, Telegu, Kannadiga, Malayali, Gondi people etc. to name a few–very roughly corresponding to parts of South India and Sri Lanka, which you have mentioned.

But even that doesn't really narrow it down, because a) there are many Dravidian groups, each with their own specific cultural markers b) I don't have enough information about your specific inspirations for racial coding, to make any further assumptions. 

Once you have narrowed down which exact cultures you are drawing from, research them thoroughly, looking into potential grey areas and historical stereotypes. In your case, focus on prejudices pertaining to violence or aggressive crime among said groups.

See, as a Bengali from an Indian Hindu family, I am also South Asian, but we are not traditionally stereotyped as violent criminals; instead, Bengalis are more likely to be depicted as lazy, servile or effeminate (in case of Bengali men), or “false” Hindus, for reasons stemming both from colonial history and present-day xenophobia.

My point being, when you derive inspiration from real-life cultures, you need to know the implications of group-wise stereotyping; this helps to refine your sensitivity research and identify specific tropes that may be offensive.

Now that you have identified both the group, and its associated stereotypes, ask yourself: are you actually challenging it or reinforcing it?

Intent =/ outcome.

A classic example of overzealous representation for me is George R. R. Martin’s Dorne in A Song of Ice and Fire, where there seems to be a sort of cognitive dissonance between intent and outcome. On the one hand, it refashions a geographically distinct ethno-linguistic group, partially inspired by MENA and Moorish cultural heritage, as being more “sexually liberated” and radically progressive than their Westerosi counterparts; on the other, there is the looming presence of persistent Orientalist undertones every time Dorne shows up in the series, including hypersexualization of the few recurring Dornish characters.

With all that being said, here is the final thing you need to ask yourself.

What representation do you hope to achieve through your South Asian pirate characters?

Will you be actively challenging stereotypes presented against them? Or are these stereotypes perpetuated, even unintentionally, by your narrative?

Mod Abhaya mentions an important point: when you speak of ideology (Are they anti-imperialist, and fighting to reclaim their indigenous land?), you must also remember to contextualize it against South Asian history, specifically documentation of armed resistance, people's rebellions, and piracy/crime in the regions you draw inspiration from.

Also, on that note:

Are the pirates, even with their Robin Hood ideology, presented as “activists gone too far” in their stance against authority, like, say, Jet from Avatar?

Does the narrative show the heroes as being more morally pure/sound than them?

Will the pirate group be presented as misguided but well-intentioned, to be “redeemed” by their interactions with non-South Asian characters? 

TL:DR;

Select a specific group/culture instead of blanket generalization → Research historical and contemporary stereotypes about said group to identify vulnerable areas to avoid → Actively challenge and resist these prejudices and biases. 

Q. 2 “Is this kind of representation tokenism?”

Please refer to our General FAQ post on tokenism first.

More on tokenism: What Is Tokenism, and Why Does It Matter in the Workplace? by Vanderbilt University

From a glance at the information provided, I personally think that in the current state of your WIP, these characters’ inclusion does sound like tokenism, particularly because you mention that you don't really have many other South Asian-coded characters (There is some information missing: what about the ethnicities of your other characters, especially the protagonists–are they primarily white? Is there any South Asian character of particular significance?) 

To avoid this, you might think of adding more South Asian characters with plot relevance, who are not affiliated to this group. Also avoid using the characters in a very heavy handed sense, by which I merely mean: don't use them as mere mouthpieces to make long, insincere monologues about racism or social issues faced by this particular community, especially if they have a very minor appearance in the plot. This practice reeks of artificial diversity. 

Q. 3. “Is it racist to play into the strong, brown warrior trope, even if he has a softer side?”

Let's be blunt for a second. Why do you think this might come off as possibly racist? Why are you so sure that your writing plays into the racialized trope?

Have you portrayed this character to be standoffish, aggressive or in an otherwise negative light?

Is his physique and skin color presented to be inherently scary?

Is his “softer inner side” presented as a surprise reveal, for comedic or shock value, or in direct juxtaposition to his physical features?

Are there lighter skin characters from other ethnic groups specifically, who are depicted to be afraid of him, especially for laughs?

Are there other characters with a similar personality/build, who are not South Asian, and if not, why did you feel drawn to portray this character in particular?

Check internal biases, and see if you can trace authorial logic and answer your own question. 

Also related, see this WWC post about racial stereotyping, and poverty driving BIPOC to crime.

All the best with your project.

-Mod Mimi [ Here is my kofi, I am a trans and queer student currently struggling with work and education, any tips are highly appreciated, if you are in a position to donate! ]

First, let’s discuss culture.

What are the other cultures you have utilized in building your setting?

You mention this group having episodic appearances within your setting, with few characters originating from their region. I’d invite you to question why that is and what it means to have the majority of your South Asian characters associated with piracy.

Contextualize them with your other characters and see if you have written in general patterns.

Also, you are condensing many cultures under a single label of South Asian in this case–determining the actual reference points that you want to draw from will enhance your research. 

Second, ideology.

How does their ideology play out?

What are the forces in opposition to your pirates?

Are they combating imperialism and/or other oppressive forces?

Interrogate the reasons why they would be choosing to do so. The framing of these characters as pirates, even with a Robin Hood ideology, opposition to the law–what is the structure that they are fighting against?

Additionally, the methods by which they try to resolve this conflict will change how they come across. If they are fighting on the same side as your heroes, what distinguishes them beyond in-group / out-group definitions via appearance? 

Third, bias.

What role is the pirate gang playing within the larger narrative?

Why are they the majority if not all of your South Asian characters?

Try to investigate the origins of these characters and why it’s coming across as problematic within your own mind.

As Mod Mimi said, why did you feel drawn to portray these characters in this manner?

(so with that out of the way; basically the son being a horrible person and at least one of the parents dying is very important to the plot but I want to make sure I do this tactfully. I can of course change things and dail it down if necessary. Also, if that’s any concern, the characters of colour aren’t the only ones suffering, it’s a generally dark book and pretty much everybody goes through some heavy shit. I can tell you more if necessary, and thank you in advance for your help! ♡

Evil Black Man becomes possessed by a Monster

You’ll have to be careful with this one. You seem to be portraying Black men as monsters, quite literally and also in a “inhumane” sense (betraying others, murdering his loved ones and abusing his Black sister). He also kills one parent, and depending on their gender, this has other implications. Their acts also feed into tropes of Black people being violent, particularly as more violent, with the target being other Black people. I will discuss these tropes more.

Violent Men of Color

Men of Color, particularly dark-skinned men with an emphasis on Black men, are often harmfully portrayed as aggressive, predatory and even animalistic. This is a harmful, dehumanizing trope and feeds into real life biases against Black men that gets these men killed. People assume MOC are just that much more violent and that they're armed. This leads to overreacting to their presence and actions in fear, when really these men are just trying to live their life. Some even go out of their way to prove they are harmless to reduce the unearned panic their presence may cause (e.g. hands out of pockets, smiling brightly, making sure they’re visible so their presence isn’t a surprise, especially at night)

Examples of this trope in action:

The way “Karens” call the police on Black people at the drop of a hat with claims that they fear for their life or are being threatened. They’ll play on this stereotype for sympathy and to urge on a stronger reaction from police and others around them.

People locking their doors or crossing the street when a Black person comes near.

Police brutality and vigilantes that lead to murders when they

Falsely perceive a weapon / read into simple hand motions as reaching for a weapon

Assume BIPOC will get violent and treat them like a threat from the beginning

Note: You see this at play towards Black women too. I’m pretty sure every fellow Black woman I know, including myself, has had a white woman clutch their purse upon them passing by in a store, and / or has been accused of being too “angry” and aggressive when speaking their mind or showing emotion.

It really isn’t great to feed this narrative. The media is oversaturated with these portrayals already. 

“Black on Black” crime

As for this aspect, I can see some of that portrayed in your story. The reality of this phrase is rooted in anti-blackness and intends to make Black people out to be more violent compared to white people and other races. When used to justify others killing Black people, it’s a racist justification for their deaths. 

The truth: People tend to commit crimes against the people they know and in their immediate demographic and area. Black people tend to know Black people. In the same way white people tend to know white people, and so on.

Statistics:

- Rates of white-on-white and Black-on-Black homicides are similar and remain within 10 percentage points of each other, around 80% and 90%, respectively.

- Likewise, rates of Black-on-white and white-on-Black homicide remain within eight percentage points of each other, at around 16% and 8%. 

- And police kill Black people at disproportionate and much higher rates than they kill their white counterparts. 

(USA Today, 2020. Stats are from the U.S. Department of Justice) 

Now - this is not to justify violence and murder perpetrated by any race. However, it’s just incorrect to create a narrative of Black people being inherently more violent, particularly towards each other, when white offenders can be quite comparably as violent. Even still, you’re looking at just a portion of a population. These numbers don’t account for the everyday, non-murderous people going about their lives!

Solutions

This narrative, as is, is probably best handled by a Black author. In any case, a Black beta-reader or three should take a closer look. That isn’t to say this can’t be improved!

Here are some ideas to help improve upon this narrative:

Include positive representation. You absolutely should portray Black men of similar identities (for example, if he’s dark-skinned, not cis or straight, etc.) in a positive, non-stereotypical and non-violent way. Prominent positive and neutral representation is a must, in my opinion, to balance such harsh portrayals of Black men.

Clearly define the reason for his ways. It just being “the way he is” as if this level of violence and hatred is natural is not sufficient. 

Was he triggered or traumatized by something? 

Did someone or something make him this way? 

You’ve got elements of possession: You could definitely run with that being the evil influence over him vs. it having anything to do with his Blackness. Perhaps that demon was lurking around most of his life, influencing his personality and feeding and growing his negative emotions to the point that he was becoming a bad person.

Consider ways to make him “bad” that aren’t linked with violence. There are many socially unacceptable ways, both legal and illegal, that can make someone a menace. A villain does not always have to be flashy in his evil, aka a murderer. Think of the human ways that make someone unpleasant. They can be selfish, a cheater, a liar, condescending, disloyal and overall deemed “bad.” Someone can come across just as menacing on the pages without being violent.

Include violent characters of other races. And not just Men of Color, either. There should be white violent characters who commit crimes and brutalities as well. You also mention this story is “Dark” but that doesn’t excuse hyper focusing on violence when it comes to the Black characters and giving the other races different matters to deal with.

Or! Even better - give the violent ways to someone else. Or no one at all. As I mentioned “darkness” and evil does not always need to be connected to violence and murder. If you choose to still include it, that’s fine. I would still suggest considering if this plotline could go to someone else without diminishing the role of these Black characters in general.

I do want to add that Black characters don’t need to be perfect. I absolutely love a Black villain! Folks can appreciate a grim story as well. However, I believe most people prefer when that villain doesn’t feed directly into actively harmful tropes. We want to see serious narratives and horror done, minus the tired tropes. As always, it’s helpful when there are other Black characters of importance that help balance out the representation. 

Wars and Violent Men of Color due to curse

Have a variety of humanized and non-warring men of color. 

Have Men of Color who are unwilling to fight, innocent Men of Color, and who we get to know and are treated with dynamic characterization.

And if there are white men in the story, include “violent” ones too. 

Make it clear that the curse is prime motivation for these wars, and not because “BIPOC are violent”

The problem is really when you only have Black / brown people who are shown to be violent and fighters in wars, with no white people doing the same. Basically do not paint a picture in one color where only Black and brown men are violent, brutal and dehumanized war machines. 

More reading:

Violent MOC Tag

@thatoneaceinthecorner asked:

I’m writing an book that features hired killers, including one of my protagonists. He uses a gun, is extremely good at his job, but has noble motivations. He’s also African American, and I’m trying to avoid harmful stereotypes. Most of the rest of my cast have also harmed/killed people, and they are an even mix of white and poc. Do you think it’s still damaging to have the main black character use a gun and kill people as his profession, even if he isn’t the only character to do those things?

If he is an assassin amongst assassins, he should be fine. You would veer into dangerous territory if the other hired killers (or you the author) went out of their way to describe him as a killing animal or focused on him being a “super predator”

Anonymous asked:

I have a dark fantasy novel. This novel is about a cast of villains with a focus on deradicalization via queer self-discovery (I am queer), but for a good part of it they’re all pretty horrible people.

Morally complex Tamil-coded man

The character I have in mind is Tamil-coded, who I want to be a love interest for the (white) villain protagonist. He isn’t the only POC in the story, as only two members of the 5-person main cast are white, but I feel he’s the most morally complex. Part of what I’m worried about is that the first introduction to him is a scene showing the aftermath of a battle he fought in, that the other main characters stumble upon. They’re pretty horrified by what they see, and the main protagonist (who is a known douchebag and hypocrite) denounces the culprit for his brutality. But when the man in question first appears physically on-screen, his first action is to rescue the protagonist from a bad situation, saving his life.

His characterization continues a trend of him being

very down-to-earth

kind

helpful to the protag

refuting the initial assumptions of him being only brutal and violent, focusing mostly on humanizing him. 

He does showcase tendencies of using 

emotional manipulation, 

lying, and 

gaslighting against the protag to get what he wants

and I have a scene planned where he gets the protag drunk in an implied attempt to get his guard down and perhaps get some information from him (I haven’t ironed out all the details).

He’s very morally complex and I’ve tried really hard to avoid the “violent MOC” stereotype by showcasing that he has a lot more personality and history to him than just his tendencies in battle (in fact, he fights very little on-screen, and his combat is justified by being a mercenary from a dangerous place). A lot of this section of story I’m currently in is actually *about* developing all the characters more while still moving some of the plot along.

Manipulation and violent Man of Color stereotypes

Another thing I’m worried about is this: at the end of this current section, I have scenes where he betrays the protagonist and his friends after manipulating them all to achieve his goals, in turn revealing that he’s one and the same as this morally-grey demon who is known to punish sinners (eg, those who bring harm upon others) in the afterlife by torturing them as a sort of attempt at justice. I’m worried that this might play into the “violent MOC” thing again, even despite all the previous work I’ve done to try and defy that trope. 

The other Tamil-coded characters

Another thing that I should probably mention is that he’s not the only character who’s shown to be Tamil-coded. His (completely human) family appears later on, for example, and they’re all depicted as being normal civilians who love him very much even despite not having been in touch for a while. And there are a few background/side characters who are Indian-coded, but are not necessarily Tamil. Nor is he the only character shown to be violent—all of the main cast does some fighting at points, and both white characters in the main cast are shown to be vicious at times as well. The only reason he’s singled out is to showcase the white protag’s hypocrisy, especially when it comes to comparisons of his own actions vs the Tamil-coded character’s deeds.

[ask partially reduced for length]

I think what bothers me more about your story is that in a story featuring people who are mostly villains, regardless of their growth over time, the majority of them are non-white. From an optics perspective, that is not great. I think unless you include more white villains to reduce the vibe of “Majority POC group = villainous” you may wish to ere more on the “anti-hero”/ “flawed protagonist” side for at least several of these POC villainous protagonists. I wish I could tell you we are at a point in time with media where the optics don’t matter. Alas, they do. 

- Marika.

My question is what does Tamil-coded mean? Do you mean people from Tamil Nadu, that is the Southern peninsula? The women that gossip about family as they get older while letting their bones start to creak? Men that spend their nights at the Madras club and only come home for a quick meal and some sleep? Or do you mean Indian in general? Also, a villain revealed to be a demon that is ostensibly dark-skinned? Indian comics do feature light-skinned Indians, but the demons tend to be grey. Yes, even Indian comics can be very racist. You may be treading into dangerous territory.

If you want a good example of an Indian demon, look at Vicky from The Good Place. Without spoilers, she manages to be a full character who messes with the protagonists, and is hinted to be crushing on one of them to extend her torture. The heroes did admit she had a point once. Vicky is flawed, self-centered, sadistic, and all-out mean. She also is really funny and you can understand her motivations without any ethnic implications.  

Also, your main character is white, and the villains are mainly POC? That’s not just optics but also an implication issue. He also exists to show the white protagonist that he’s wrong and a hypocrite? That’s what I’m seeing, and it’s a lot to unpack.

- Jaya

I agree with Jaya to be more explicit about how you are coding this character. As another South Indian, all I picture when someone tells me “Tamilian” is lots of rice, thayir shaadam as a cure-all and Tamilian movies (haha). I like the idea of more morally ambiguous Indian characters just because Hindu folktales can be so binary when it comes to good/ evil. However, Tamil Nadu and the Tamilian diaspora are so diverse religiously that not all Tamilians may feel the same way. I think Jaya’s recommendations with respect to colorism are very important to note. Colorism is a big problem in India in terms of negative stereotyping, including for Tamilians, many of whom are assumed to be dark-skinned. 

- Marika.

@morithemoth asked:

Okay so. I have a Japanese-American character that is extremely violent and stuff due to the situation he’s in making him have to be more violent in order to live. He’s not just his anger, he’s also a really caring and protective guy, but I’m still scared I’m being racist for having that as his character

There is not enough detail here for me to provide you with meaningful, culture-specific advice. Please send us another question with greater detail to help us understand what kind of story you are trying to tell and how this character fits in. We have enough portrayals of extremely violent yakuza/ biker gang/ martial arts types, after all.

Personally, I’m always confused whenever a writer tells me they are worried about being racist. I can’t say I’ve ever found racist character interpretations to be compelling. Stereotypes, overused tropes and lack of dimensionality tend to be boring. I think the best way to avoid being a racist writer is simply to write better characters. If you don’t succeed the first time, send us another ask and try again. Rather like writing, challenging one’s own biases (both conscious and unconscious) is not a matter of being perfect the first time, but by improving through repetition. 

- Marika.

Seconding Marika—why is your character characterized in such a way that the principal description of him is “angry and violent?” Also, the only stereotype I can think of with East Asians along those lines is being cruel in a stoic/cold, not necessarily explosive, way.