#themarveloftrelsi

Response to this post by BoltonEvans here: 

“The biggest issue with Troyella honestly isn’t just that their relationship is unequal, which would be an indictment in and of itself, but that it’s unhealthy. When we break it down to brass tax; Troy’s future isn’t as important as his and Gabriella’s relationship, but Gabriella’s future is more important than their relationship. Gabriella is always right, and Troy is always wrong. Gabriella is entirely above reproach. Troy’s every action is open to criticism and rebuking. Gabriella sees fit to punish and scold Troy when he fails to meet her ludicrously high expectations, but Troy can’t so much as question Gabriella’s failings and shortcomings as a partner without receiving an icy look from Gabriella, herself, and the justification that Gabriella “always” does “the right thing”, and is “one step ahead, as usual”. When Troy confides his concerns about his future and his insecurities in Gabriella, Gabriella scarcely pays his words any mind before bringing up her own (comparatively less serious) problems, as if she needs to one up her boyfriend. Gabriella can toy with Troy’s feelings and ultimately determine that he isn’t worth fighting for, while Troy scrambles to do everything in his power to keep Gabriella content and at his side.”

Great points. I agree. 

“Yet, it’s Troy the characters in these films, and, consequently, the fandom, see fit to demonize and write off as “not good enough for Gabriella”.

The fandom’s vindictive cruelty towards Troy beggars belief time after time. I conclude that they were watching a different version of the film. 

“Ryan was originally conceived as having a crush on Gabriella, in High School Musical 2. Which, definitely was a byproduct of writer’s bias- two male leads lusting after the same girl? Yeah. Extreme bias. Anyway, in both the junior novel adaptation of the second film (which was based on an earlier draft of the script), and a deleted scene, Ryan attempts to flirt with Gabriella in an outrageously uncomfortable manner by mentioning the previous lifeguard at Lava Springs having awful back hair; implying that Gabriella is far easier on the eyes. This concept, however, seems to have been by and large abandoned in the final cut of the film. Instead, several lines of dialogue, as well as Lucas Grabeel’s performance, indicate Ryan having a preference for the Troy half of Troyella.”

I see no avenue for Ryan having feelings for Gabriella. And I don’t like to imagine what an “earlier draft of the script” would look like, given the final product. What I see in this scene is Ryan walking into a trap with his naiive eyes open, and then Gabriella leaving him to take the flack. He thought Gabriella was being friendly, thought her compliments were genuine, and it turned out that she was a stage prop in a plan to humiliate someone he had no intention to hurt. It’s a disgusting scene, because if you wiped Gabriella out of the picture, clearly the two of them (Troy and Ryan) could have had a nice chat. 

Personally, I don’t think Ryan had a more than platonic interest in Troy, but I do think he got on better with Troy than with Gabriella. He also admires Troy, because Troy has what he longs for: recognition and popularity on his own account. I suppose it is easy to interpret that admiration as being more than platonic. That said, he approached Zeke with a compliment long before approaching Troy. (Not to mention that scene in HSM III “I Want It All” and at graduation between them). Anyway, he does not admire Gabriella, apart from being impressed with her academic abilities. Ryan may also be grateful to Troy, who signed his yearbook-- almost everyone else ignored him when he tried to sign theirs, which gives the impression that very few people signed his. 

Ryan eagerly and without any hesitation declares Troy as having the “category” of East High School’s Absolute Primo Boy “pretty much locked up, don’t you think?”, a large grin playing across his face...

Sharpay asked him a very silly question, which he appears to have taken literally. His tone is sort of “Come on, Shar, you already know the answer to that!” It strikes me that he is very much used to hearing about how much his sister wants Troy, and silently amused that Troy so clearly does not reciprocate those feelings. Ryan’s later annoyance, resentment and eventual anger with Sharpay for using Troy as a tool to replace him tends to make me feel that he would be favourable to Gabriella’s place in Troy’s life because it means Sharpay doesn’t get her way for once. If Troy is unattainable, then he’s not going to be kicked aside. Ryan is a very practical guy. He looks out for Numero Uno. In HSM III, he does not mention that Troy would not like to perform with Sharpay, but that Sharpay can’t fulfil Gabriella’s role: “You... are not Gabriella.” In HSM II, he pretended that Sharpay was “East High’s Primo Girl”, whilst clearly believing it to be Gabriella, hence that funny stare round the corner.

His mood quickly sours, however, when Sharpay begins daydreaming about herself and Troy, leading to Ryan having to take a minute to compose himself before exiting the school building on Sharpay’s heels. 

Actually, he kind of gave her a “get real” look there, by snapping his fingers. I imagine that Ryan is always having to compose himself around Sharpay, given her high drama capacity, and her always roping him into her schemes.  

“...takes issue with Troy potentially performing in the Lava Springs talent show only on the grounds that he doesn’t want to see Troy sing with Gabriella, stands off to the side, beaming, as Troy is introduced to Mrs. Evans...”

I personally think that Ryan didn’t want Troy and Gabriella upstaging him and Sharpay: “What about our song?”. Ryan never actually stated that he wished to see Troy perform in the Lava Springs Talent Show; he even went so far as to tell Sharpay that Kelsi had written a song for him and Gabriella, calling it “a problem”. “Now it’s an amazing song, but Kelsi didn’t write it for us.”-- “us” being him and Sharpay. Along with his incredibly sarcastic behaviour at dinner (which was hilarious), it doesn’t look to me like he appreciates what appears to be yet another dinnertime with him being shunted into the corner, whilst all the focus is on Sharpay, and this time, Troy. His anger when Sharpay announced that she’d be performing in Troy was based on him feeling betrayed by her, and the waste of his beloved “Tiki Warrior Outfit”, not to mention the time and effort he poured into rehearsing a song that he clearly enjoyed-- not least because he got to be the Handsome Prince. His annoyance with Troy at the end of Humuhumu was both hilarious and telling; even though Troy did nothing wrong, he snatched the necklace thing from him and stalked off. :D When Sharpay confirms his worst fears, that he has been replaced, he snaps. Later on, he sarcastically tells Sharpay, “But you and Troy have a good show, sis.” Back in HSM I, he was worried that Troy and Gabriella, referred to as “they”, sounded good-- worried and impressed, rather. When Sharpay ranted against the injustice of Gabriella signing up for the Talent Show, Ryan just pretended to agree with her. He also eventually became good-natured when he saw that Troy and Gabriella performed “Breaking Free” so well. So I don’t think that he was jealous of Troy and Gabriella, but resentful of how Sharpay used Troy as a replacement for him, thus making him feel replaceable. I think that when he was upset about the “Troy and Gabriella” show, he was referring to their popularity and how that would mean no attention for him. We already know that he secretly longed to win the Star Dazzle Award. Ryan seems to me to be incredibly practical. 

I’ve seen the scene where Troy is introduced to Mrs. Evans, and he’s pulling that same face the entire time at everyone, which must take some muscle effort. :D

then, not subtly at all gives Troy’s behind a once over as he passes by.

Maybe it’s just me, but his cap is too far down for me to see anything. It looks to me as though they’re all just getting out of the way. Ryan keeps pulling that face for the entire scene, and sometimes doesn’t even look interested in what’s going on, because almost everyone gradually forgets that he’s even there (as usual). 

The binoculars scene was funny. Ryan looks to me like he’s watching a very good film. However, he is only there because Sharpay forced him to be: later, when Sharpay yells at him to “keep an eye on those Wildcats”, he has snapped and stalks off. I would be more convinced if he decided to keep watch of his own accord. Besides, since his parents own the club, there’s not much for Ryan to do from day to day. So why not spy? :D 

“This is veering into headcanon territory, but… if you factor in the lyrics to “Everyday”, lyrics that Ryan and not Kelsi penned, lyrics that describe both feelings the speaker believes they have only one chance to act on, and Troy’s internal conflict over the course of this film… Ryan likely came to the conclusion that he had blown his one “chance” with Troy.”

Because I hardly ever watch this scene, too pissed off with movie events to stomach the sweet reunion part, I don’t know what the lyrics are. This is a plausible interpretation. But if this song is so important and personal to Ryan, then why doesn’t Ryan, who can play the piano, teach Troy the song? If they’d had that scene together, that would have definitely had more potential for romantic interpretation. 

Obviously, I’m biased, but I just don’t see anyone having the same dynamic as Troy and Kelsi; and Troy is almost completely dependent upon Kelsi to perform “Everyday”, from what I remember-- at least until Gabriella appears. She’s the one giving him the moral support throughout there. I don’t feel that he and Ryan had that unspoken understanding through music that was shown between him and Kelsi. 

What I’d like to know is who taught Gabriella the song. Neither Ryan nor Kelsi are shown to know her that well. Ryan hands Troy the new score and then when Troy confronts Sharpay, Ryan dashes off, whilst Troy is off to rehearse with Kelsi (who manages to teach him an entire song within an hour or so). Where does Ryan dash off to? Is he going to fetch Gabriella? Is he therefore the one who preps Gabriella? So many unanswered questions. 

“Ryan never attempts to approach Troy throughout the rest of this movie, even while orchestrating a scheme to reunite Troy with Gabriella (something Gabriella obviously didn’t want, as she was the one who terminated their relationship) and get him performing in the talent show for the boosters from U of A with a song actually in his range, and a partner he’s comfortable with. It is Troy who seeks Ryan out.”

Ryan helping to orchestrate a reunion between Troy and Gabriella is definitely significant and a very decent thing to do. I think it was a completely naiive idea, but his heart was in the right place.

“And, Ryan’s faces during that sequence say it all. He thought Troy would never have anything to do with him, again, but…. here Troy is, right in front of him, saying his name, apologizing to him, and offering his hand in friendship.”

Yes, I like that scene. Ryan does act as though he is meeting a celebrity. Again, I can see how this might be seen as more than platonic. 

“He can hardly believe it. But, he’s certainly not going to refuse it. He even attempts to ameliorate Troy’s (completely unwarranted) guilt over the talent show by assuring him, “Hey, truth is… we’ve all had a lot of fun. At least I have.”

I approve of Ryan not taking an apology that was never warranted in the first place. 

“I could go on, incorporating graphics from the third movie and break downs of the context of them to illustrate further proof that Ryan has decidedly not platonic feelings for Troy, but I’m sure you’ve got the gist, by now. (And, I don’t want to detract from the point of this analysis, which is intended to be a celebration of Troy/Kelsi, not my preferred ship.) With this knowledge in hand, Ryan’s silence in regards to Troy and Gabriella’s relationship is suddenly painted in a new light.”

I’m happy to discuss all ships. I base ships on their plausibility and level of interest, and though I don’t ship Troy and Ryan, this is quite obviously a superior pairing to Chyan (implausible), Ryella (nonsensical) and Ryelsi (implausible, nonsensical and offensive). All of those three have next to NO evidence in their favour-- I don’t care about “I Don’t Dance”, because it’s a waste of minutes. 

I think Ryan holds Troy in high esteem and they become very good friends, which I think is a positive thing. 

It would certainly be a very interesting headcanon for Ryan (who deserves a more prominent role in some capacity), and one with more proof than for the central couple. But again, I’m biased: for me, Troy and Kelsi are unique (the “Playmakers” *squee* :D) and extremely well-suited for each other, as well as being reliant upon and devoted to each other’s success. They both have something that they need and value in each other that is, to me, a lot deeper than with Troy’s other relationships with other characters. Which is what I’m babbling about in this series, LOL! 

However, I do agree that there are a lot of unappreciated dynamics in the movie series, that deserved far more attention than Troyella.  

“As of the end of High School Musical 2, Ryan and Troy are friends. This is not up for debate. This is a fact supported by their interactions in High School Musical 3: Senior Year. Ignoring the transparent Pro-Gabriella/Troyella bias the entire narrative of that film is steeped in, Ryan has likely come to terms with the fact that Gabriella is the one Troy’s heart is set on. He doesn’t necessarily like it...”

To be honest, I don’t think he looks unhappy there at all; everyone behind those doors looks wistful and impressed at the performance. They always seem to me to be in the middle of a daydream. (Which they are, because this performance is in no way a reflection of Troyella’s actual relationship). Besides, we can’t actually see the bottom half of Ryan’s face in that pic, LOL! I’d certainly like Ryan to be unhappy with Gabriella, but then his later victory air pump during the final Musical performance would contradict that. He doesn’t even look unhappy when Troy shows up halfway through the musical with Gabriella on his arm, and even helps give them another chance! I wish he hadn’t, because Troy should have turned up on his cue, and Gabriella should have fucked off back to California, since she had no intention of performing, but there you go. 

- but he keeps his opinions and personal feelings to himself and tries to support whatever makes Troy happy.

I’d like to see more information about Ryan’s feelings on anything, let alone Troyella. He gets almost no airtime when it’s not convenient. 

With that said, I doubt he’d manage to hold his tongue if he knew the full details of the prom debacle.

Again, I’m hesitant on deciding how he’d react, because I don’t know enough about his feelings, overall. 

I’m really looking forward to further analysis of Kelsi. You do such an excellent job breaking her character down and exploring what makes her tick. It’s given me a renewed appreciation for her. Keep up the amazing work! You’re fighting the good fight. ^___^

Thanks! Kelsi is a marvellous character, who just isn’t appreciated enough in the fandom, so really, she just gives me the material to explore. 

Response to this post from BoltonEvans.

“A few assorted notes, because I just can’t keep my big mouth shut:”

:D I love these responses. 

“Gabriella really doesn’t have any real respect for Kelsi or Ryan’s talent and hard work when it isn’t directly benefitting her to care about it. But, then, she doesn’t really care about anyone other than herself, either.”

The ease with which Gabriella abandons her performing commitments, despite being considered to have a love of performing astounds me. In EVERY movie, she quits for reasons that should not actually diminish her love of theatre. If every actor quit their upcoming project because of real/perceived relationship problems, we would have no films, musicals or theatre performances. The result of this selfishness is that Kelsi’s work is almost wasted on three occasions: 1)- Kelsi was excited to have competition against Sharpay and wanted to help Gabriella get the best chance to shine. Gabriella quit because suspiciously timed webcam, 2)- Kelsi took her OWN TIME to write a song for Troy and Gabriella (composing takes HOURS), only for Gabriella to quit because Italian golf shoes. This is a song that Gabriella had initially been so eager to hear. I suppose I can give Gabriella credit for managing to learn “Everyday”, but she should never have quit in the first place, 3)- Kelsi wrote music for another musical, took the trouble to pour her heart and soul into the best possible song to show off (Troy and) Gabriella’s talents, only for Gabriella to quit halfway through again because me, me, me. Not to disparage her academic pursuits, but she refused to return for prom, the musical and the graduation. The evidence is STARING KELSI IN THE FACE, and she still overlooks this each time. What will it honestly take for Kelsi to realize Gabriella simply doesn’t value her hard work and talent enough to even show up for commitments in which she wished to take part?

“One minor correction; Troy says, “The Garden Club is rooting for you.” And, that line, in and of itself, is something I talk mild issue with, since it was the Science Club maintaining the rooftop garden, in the first movie. But, this is the level of continuity I’ve come to expect from the man who changed the spelling of a secondary character’s surname between films.”

Haha! Christ! 

Thanks for the correction. Noted. 

“I’m extremely happy that you mentioned Troy and Ryan’s relationship as an exception to the consistent undermining of the messages of teamwork and friendship this series attempts to drill into the viewers’ heads. I did a thorough breakdown of how the sentiment, “We’re All In This Together” rings profoundly hollow in numerous areas...

 ...And, the little things, like absolutely no one helping Ryan up, or even asking if he was okay, after he face-planted and stained his immaculate white outfit, and the entire senior class save Ryan (who was flustered at the sight of essentially naked male bodies, more than anything else) finding the humiliation of two sophomores absolutely hysterical...

...Regardless, I appreciate the nod to the relationship this fandom collectively ignores altogether when, in actuality, it’s one of the most organic, healthy, and mutually beneficial relationships in the entire series.”

Please do share that link with me when you find it. Yes, I like several things about Troy and Ryan’s friendship: that Troy likes Ryan based on his own merits and not as an accessory to Sharpay, that Ryan doesn’t hold Troy to ludicrous standards or force him into apologizing for things he didn’t do. Chad, Gabriella and the Wildcats became friends with Ryan when they realized they could benefit from his talent and hard work. As for the fandom ignoring this-- well, I don’t know why. They appear to get along very well as far as I can see.

 “Though, I do headcanon, based on Troy making the call to “bring in Rocketman”, during the state championship game in the third movie, that Troy is the team’s key strategist. He often makes the calls that win the day for the Wildcats. This was what got him voted team captain. Therefore, Chad and Coach Bolton ostensibly believing that the entire team is sunk without Troy at the helm, makes a bit more sense.”

That’s a good point, but Coach Bolton is also a strategist and should know better than to not have a Plan B. Not to mention how all this outrage is based on Troy is just rehearsing a couple of songs, with no certainty yet as to whether he might even get the role!

“Kelsi refusing to unfairly malign Troy and keeping up some level of communication with him while everyone else has chosen to give him the cold shoulder is one of the standout Kelsi/Troy moments for me. It shows that, despite her earlier questionable action of taking Troy to task over the requirements of her employment at Lava Springs when he wasn’t even the one who got her the job, she’s loyal to Troy. She didn’t immediately write him off for prioritizing his future, and doesn’t subscribe to groupthink and a mob mentality. She’s honestly one of the only two friends Troy has who acts like a legitimate friend to him, and it will forever pain me how little screentime Troy actually shares with these two characters.”

Kelsi’s earlier decision to blame Troy for a job Sharpay gave her is ridiculous, and I don’t mind saying so. Had she forgotten that Sharpay gave her the job, or was she arguing on behalf of the other Wildcats who were angry? Was she trying to show solidarity with the team? No explanation is given, but that’s usually the case, because the screenwriters didn’t give a toss about Kelsi’s life outside of the main plot. 

“My one and only issue with romantic Troy/Kelsi (aside from my preference for Troy/Ryan and me not quite seeing anything romantic on Troy’s end when he interacts with Kelsi) is Kelsi’s idolization of Gabriella and Troy and Gabriella’s relationship. Whether you view Gabriella as psychologically abusive, or not, the damage she has done to Troy’s self-esteem and image of himself is undeniable. If Troy is ever going to begin recovering from this damage, he’d need a solid, stable support system who would be willing to call Gabriella out on her hypocrisy and mistreatment of him. He would need someone who is quick to point out that a lot of the things Gabriella did were selfish and wrong and Troy is totally undeserving of all of the pain and grief Gabriella caused him. As much as Kelsi cares about Troy, I can’t see her being willing to acknowledge Gabriella’s faults. Admitting that Troy and Gabriella’s relationship isn’t the picture-perfect fairy tale romance that inspires her best musical selections would shatter her entire worldview. She’s still Gabriella’s friend, as well as Troy’s, and I could see her struggling to cope with the reality that Gabriella has hurt Troy in major, major ways. She’d want to be there for Troy, of course, but while comforting him, she’d be nursing the wounds of her own betrayal, and it would take her probably just as long to finally realize that Gabriella wasn’t the sweet, compassionate, brilliant person who changed everyone at East High for the better that Kelsi thought she was, as it would take Troy to realize that Gabriella wasn’t always right and that he deserves so much better.”

This comment covers A LOT of things I will discuss later with regards to romantic Trelsi. I am VERY particular when it comes to how I believe these two would work as a couple, as I will explain later. However, I have touched on the issues you raise in my Thou Shalts/Thou Shalt Nots. It might not come across in my posts, but I don’t think the Trelsi ship would be flawless at all and much of what you’ve said here explains why. Kelsi IS incapable of criticizing Gabriella, and that does present a significant drawback. However, the fact that as his friend, she is also unable to criticize Gabriella is equally, if not more, problematic, because it limits how well she can help him heal. Whether it’s Trelsi friendship or romance, in a realistic portrayal, Kelsi would suffer for her hero worship either way. (As would Troy). That’’s why I don’t like gooey, saccharine Trelsi fics, because they don’t highlight these problems. They just replace one superficial portrayal with another. 

“I love the idea of Troy being there to console Kelsi when her relationship with Jason dissolves for whatever reason. That’s a wonderful headcanon. I could also see Ryan potentially offering her the needed emotional support.”

Thanks, although it was mostly your analysis that prompted me. My analysis of Kelsi and Jason is upcoming in future posts, because that links to the potential of Trelsi romance.

In response to this post by BoltonEvans. 

“I know you don’t even want to consider the Ryan/Kelsi debacle- believe me, it’s positively shameful on every level- but do you think there was even the slightest chance that, much like Jason’s affections straying toward Martha, Kelsi began to feel something for Ryan that caused her and Jason to end their relationship?”

Without bias (astonishingly!) I don’t think so, given that Ryan and Kelsi seemed closer after she and Jason broke up, whereas Jason and Martha were close during his relationship with Kelsi. But maybe she and Ryan could have become closer whilst they were planning a reunion for Troy and Gabriella. Maybe. Bottom line is, I can’t take Ryan and Kelsi seriously, so even though I will concede-- with extreme reluctance!-- that the deleted scene may support that view, I can’t bring myself to be invested in it, based on the overall stupidity of this pairing. 

“It’s very likely that the culprit was Ms. Darbus, herself, but it could have easily been Kelsi pouring her feelings into her artistic vision, which might have been the final push Ryan needed to decide to take Kelsi to the actual prom.”

That’s a good hypothesis. Again, I don’t see anything romantic in Ryan and Kelsi’s genuine interaction-- not the fake shit they were forced to do. 

“I actually do headcanon Kelsi as crushing on Troy, at least in the first movie. The way she lights up when he engages with her, and almost immediately opens up to him, strikes me as the behavior of someone who is finally getting attention from a person they admired from afar.”

Yes, I mean the Crush Theory completely plausible. I totally get it, and surprisingly, I have subconsciously been reverting back for my current Trelsi fic. It definitely works for a Kelsi POV. 

In the first scene where they are introduced, however, her lighting up could just be the result of her latching onto the first person who actually gave her any attention at all. Because we’ve almost no information about Kelsi prior to this scene, I personally can’t say for certain whether she admired Troy beforehand, although it’s certainly possible. He is, after all, East High’s Primo Boy. But it just didn’t take her very long to become comfortable with him in a way that even Gabriella wasn’t, so perhaps what I meant to say that the Crush was pretty fleeting. I will go into this in more detail, but I tend to view Trelsi as starting from HSM III, so I am sort of imposing my own view here! :D

“Once more, I apologize if I prattled on too long and detracted from your post.

This is another brilliant analysis with more excellent insight into Kelsi’s character. I look forward, as always, to reading more of your opinions on these characters and this series. ^___^”

Er... not sure why you’re apologizing, LOL! :D Obviously, I’m biased, but I’m absolutely not against hearing and discussing different viewpoints/interpretations (unlike many in this fandom, haha). It would be boring if everyone agreed with me. Different ideas and arguments help me refine my own, anyway. Besides, a reblog goes onto YOUR blog, where you can write whatever the hell you want. I just appreciate the exposure, LOL! :D