Just wanted to pop in and say I love your tpe series so much, I’m so invested in the whole universe
This is probably really boring and I swear I love the smut of the main series, but I’m so interested in just the day to day management of the dynamic if ygm? Like the offhand mention of them just goofing off in the lake before Ilya uses it to show his dominance, them watching a film together but Shane just happens to be naked and on his knees
I’m not sure it would ever come up in your series as I appreciate it’s not the main attraction so to speak, but I was curious how you envision that the dynamic effects day to day when they are a 24/7 at the cottage, like what if they’re just watching tv or hanging out, is Ilya still in charge? Do Shane’s parents not visit?
What if they have a fight or minor disagreement and Ilya is actually in the wrong so it can’t truly be resolved with a punishment? Is Shane literally naked and on his knees at all times (I wasn’t sure whether that was literal or not in the text) and does he never truly need a break? (The more traditional safe word scenario)
Sorry for the waffle, just love hearing your thoughts on this. I don’t have much experience with real world kink so wasn’t sure if this is a realistic dynamic or an almost fantasy
thank you i love this question! it's something i have been thinking about a lot lately, i want to try to write more that explores the dynamics of how their TPE works (like the first fic and four corners of the earth did, and not as much more recent installments that are just crazy sex stuff they do), because i think i haven't gone into a lot of detail about the day-to-day of the dynamic which is possibly even more interesting to me. will answer in two parts bc tumblr hates my yapping i guess
Where I’m coming from: I’ve been in relationships that were 24/7 D/s (aka there are always Rules) and TPE only for time limited periods (like not more than a week). Those periods looked very much like what shane and ilya have in this series
central to it is that, yes, the dom is always in charge--that's what differentiates 24/7 TPE from other types of kink relationships. if ilya tells shane to do something, he has to do it, even if he doesn't want to, and even when they're not in a discrete scene. there are always rules he has to follow, and they're in place all the time, at Ilya’s discretion, not mutually. (the things you specifically asked about: yes, technically the rule is always for him to be naked and kneeling, but it's ilya's responsibility to make sure that's enforced in a way that's healthy and safe. so a lot of the time he's ordering shane up onto the couch with him, both because they love to cuddle and for the sake of his knees. if it's cold ilya gives him something to wear. etc). the rules change based on context, like whether they're physically together and whether other people are around, but the dynamic doesn’t turn on and off, because it is their relationship. (also for plot convenience in this universe yuna and david are not allowed at the cottage so it's like the Extra Power Exchange Zone where they get a break from having to figure out how to make their dynamic palatable to others). it was really important to me to include the little moments of them goofing off or relaxing because this is still a relationship and they love and like each other and don’t lose their personalities into generic cold Dom and passive sub roles. in the first fic in the series they're both in a pretty intense headspace the entire time because it's brand new to them, but as time goes on that eases up and they can spend time together as usual but with the framework of the power dynamic always in place.
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Stasera l’episodio “Dreams” di TGAH mi ha lasciato l’anima al contrario.
Succede ogni qualvolta quello che guardo diventa uno specchio per me. Non so se avete presente, quando ci si guarda allo specchio e si rimane fermi, per diversi secondi, a guardarsi, per controllare se la persona che si ha davanti è quella che uno si immaginava.
Ralph, in questo episodio, prova ad aiutare quante più persone possibili, purtroppo fallendo. L’effetto specchio è nato dal fatto che molte volte mi sono trovato in una situazione simile, pur non sapendo volare, pur non sapendo respingere pallottole. Lo faccio a modo mio, regalando sorrisi, due chiacchiere ad un caffè, prendendomi carico del dolore altrui. A volte funziona, a volte no, vorrei poter aiutare tutti, o anche una persona sola, e non sapete quante volte io abbia desiderato di poter volare, per far sentire che ci sono, per cancellare la tristezza con una delle mie improvvisate.
Per me è davvero complicato lasciare indietro chi voglio bene, non importa se non ricevo altrettanto, e per rispettare questa regola ho fatto molte volte pasticci. Però Ralph ci ha creduto, e in un modo in un altro, pur facendo casini, ha salvato tutti. E lì son scoppiato a piangere, perché non mi sono sentito solo, non mi sono sentito come mi sento sempre dopo aver fatto il possibile per chiunque io possa aiutare. Lo so che è un personaggio di una serie TV: ma quando diventa il tuo eroe, allora funziona.
A queste parole allego una canzone, la sigla di coda speciale di questo episodio. Questa chitarra stasera sarà la mia culla.
As promised! Chapter 2 will probably be up tomorrow.
I love rewatching the first episode - I always forget what a smooth operator Hei is.
Like, he manages to convince a woman he’s just met, in a matter of hours, that not only is he trustworthy but that she should run away with him - flee the country - and use the item that the baddies are after her for to do it.
And this is the first approach that he tries. Not threats, not torture, no - let’s romance the information out of her!
hi! i love ur posts and the way you analyze characters. i have a question i've been sitting on for a while now in regards to shane and orgasm denial. it's not a kink of mine, and i've never personally been a fan of it for shane's character so i've mostly chosen to not engage with it. however, i know a lot of people are into it for him and i just saw that your most recent fic was about that. i was wondering, since you seem to enjoy explaining the psychology of characters, if maybe you could help me understand some things? i wanna be clear that my opinions are in no way meant as a judgement towards anyone else's and that i'm just genuinely curious and want to understand.
i guess i should start with saying that i identify a lot with shane, in that i have spent most of my life ashamed of and repressing my sexual desire (hashtag religious trauma). so my understanding of his character is definitely influenced by my understanding of myself. that being said, i guess my understanding of shane and kink is that ilya is the first person who makes shane feel like it is okay and good for him to feel pleasure, that shane feeling pleasure and giving into his desire is something that is beautiful and holy (<-excuse religious trauma peeking in) and very much wanted. i see most of his kinks with ilya as a way to reclaim his desires (and i am very much into humiliation kink, because that is a way to like, face the shame and still surrender to the desire anyway).
i also understand orgasm control, and like, most kinds of submission to ilya's control in general, in that surrendering trust to another person is another repressed thing shane has craved, to feel held and freed of the overwhelming responsibility that he has had his whole life to be perfect and put together.
what i don't understand is complete orgasm denial, for a couple of reasons. one from shane's perspective and one from ilya's. the shane reason is, if he has spent his whole life denying himself of pleasure, wouldn't orgasm denial just confirm his existing beliefs that he doesn't deserve it, contributing to further shame?
and from ilya's perspective: i understand he desires to feel powerful. but isn't seeing the overwhelming pleasure you are able to give your partner an extreme power? like, again, maybe this is #myprojection as someone who is also horny as hell for hudson's shane-orgasm face, but wouldn't he think the sight of shane coming is like, the most beautiful thing he's ever seen? why would he not want to make that happen? my understanding of the reason ilya is so obsessed with shane is that shane needs ilya, because ilya is the only one who can make him feel this good, and ilya needs to be needed. to be actually needed, like emotionally, to be wanted for the intimacy he can give someone, not wanted superficially just for his money or looks or skill. watching shane receive the pleasure he has spent his life denying himself, being the one to facilitate that, is an incredibly emotionally intimate act that i would imagine ilya loves knowing he alone can provide.
i understand the game of edging and denying so that the release is more powerful when it happens. but it seems like when a lot of people talk about orgasm denial, that's not the draw, and some people actually prefer the kind of denial that is permanent or almost permanent. and i guess that's what my brain cannot really understand, both as an abstract concept, but also for these particular characters.
as always, i would love to hear your thoughts, but if this isn't an interesting conversation to you feel free to ignore it. appreciate your contributions to this fandom either way!
this is such an interesting question and i'm super happy to have the opportunity to yap! a couple of thoughts below the cut bc they got long and contain spoilers for the series (is an orgasm a spoiler?), since i'm gonna be talking about this mostly in the context of my own fic:
in to give and hazard all, there's a loooot of orgasm denial in the first ~2 years of their dynamic, mostly because it's a straightforward way for them both to feel secure in the 24/7 nature of it (shane is always giving ilya control of his orgasms, he can never come without permission, even when they're in different states like watching television he's still in that sense submitting). as time goes on, you might notice shane is coming in about half of their scenes, because the dynamic loosens up over time as they both start to feel secure that it's real and it's there even if there's not always a tangible enactment of it.
in the fic i just posted, shane has a fantasy about permanent chastity. they're both very turned on by this fantasy because it would represent such an extreme act of submission, and specifically because it would be so awful for shane and they both generally enjoy shane doing things he straight-up does not want to do for ilya. but shane begs ilya not to actually enact it, and ilya reassures him he would never actually want that. conceptually the idea of "only ilya gets physical pleasure out of sex" is hot because of what it would mean about their power dynamic, but actually ilya would never want to give up making shane come. he really likes seeing shane come! he likes knowing he's the one who does that to him! he loves shane and wants him to feel good! (and i do think that actually shane would be suffering in an un-fun way in permanent chastity, for psychological reasons like what you mentioned, and ilya only makes shane suffer in un-fun ways in the short term)
i'm not someone who particularly kinks on long-term chastity, although i like all forms of orgasm control. i think the appeal is pretty much what shane fantasizes about in "ruined"--what if sex was only about what you want, what if i was always desperate/frustrated/uncomfortable, etc. it can also be about learning to appreciate other kinds of physical and sexual pleasure more, and this is where i think it might be less likely to be about reinforcing the "not deserving pleasure" idea than you're imagining, because there are a lot of kinds of pleasure to take in sex other than orgasm (actually just wrote something about that too, i suppose!) and for shane specifically, who seems to love every single second of getting fucked, there could be something freeing about not having to experience sexual pleasure the "normal" way because he's not able to.
shane's issues about sex are also different than religious sex shame imo! i don't actually think shane is especially sexually repressed. he doesn't deny himself pleasure--other than the Hole Chase, he never says no to what ilya offers him. what shane is ashamed of is being gay, not wanting to fuck men (or get fucked by men), as evidenced by the fact that .2 seconds after rose diagnoses him with gay he's like "btw i'm a hole". he's not afraid of feeling good, he's afraid of letting people down through his own imperfection; in that sense i think anything that allows him to hand pressure to be sexually "normal" over to ilya could be a relief
from ilya's perspective: like i said, i cannot imagine ilya would want to give up on that sweet sweet shane o-face. but there's an emotional appeal to it. what you said here: "to be actually needed, like emotionally, to be wanted for the intimacy he can give someone, not wanted superficially just for his money or looks or skill. watching shane receive the pleasure he has spent his life denying himself, being the one to facilitate that, is an incredibly emotionally intimate act that i would imagine ilya loves knowing he alone can provide." is all super true of #myilya, for sure. but i think he could also get this need met through the trust shane would be putting in him to still make sex pleasurable and to make these decisions for him. i also define ilya's core emotional need a little differently--he does need to be needed, but i think what he really needs is to be valued, and i think he feels that anytime shane gives something up for him. i think his obsession with shane starts, not because shane needs ilya, but because shane treats him with kindness in addition to wanting him. ilya doesn't actually know that he's shane's only source of sexual pleasure! but he does know that shane is constantly trying to express interest in him as a person and care for him even as ilya is trying to shove him away, and he knows that shane is willing to be vulnerable even when ilya is cruel, and i think those are big factors in his obsession. and "i'll let you decide when i come even if it's never" is big vulnerable when he's cruel energy.
anyway i hope this all makes sense! very interesting stuff to contemplate
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thinking about your "shane being set up to fail" post and your fic where ilya forces shane to break a rule and my brain took a sharp left turn. do you think ilya would ever push shane to brat? where both of them know shane doesn't want to be bad, doesn't want to withhold anything, but ilya forces him to anyway. maybe a "if you can pretend not to be a complete slut for me for ten minutes you get a reward" scenario? and of course shane fails 😇
i think this becomes one of their favorite games (well. one of ilya's favorite games. shane hates it, but he likes having something to endure). it's a form of humiliation play--shane is not embarrassed at all about being called a dirty whore, for instance, that just turns him on, but he takes a lot of pride in being The Goodest Boy In The World For Ilya, and taking that from him is genuinely degrading and upsetting.
i think like in discover it always remains edgeplay for them. shane can't really get into the headspace that makes submission enjoyable for him because his subspace is basically indistinguishable from being good and obedient (witness how he acts in the vegas bathroom for my canon evidence of this), he's having to really concentrate and focus and he's hyperaware of what's happening and how much he doesn't like it. being told he's being a brat or being bad is the worst punishment imaginable and most of the time ilya is really careful that even when shane is getting punished he's not being made to feel like he's disappointed ilya. but in this scenario, if he can resist the urge to just do whatever ilya tells him then he's going to get told he was bad, if he can't he's actually disobeying.
like i think it's pretty much the only reliable way to actually put shane in the torment nexus (other than straight up ignoring him). i think it reduces him to actual sobbing begging distress really quickly, to the point that they use a stop signal when they do this. i don't think it's something they do as punishment tho, i think it's something they do because it's fun for ilya. he thinks shane is cute when he's trying and failing to be bratty and he really likes knocking shane's ego about being So Good down a peg and he thinks it's really hot when shane is crying and only calms down when ilya fucks his mouth.
i also think it's something where they have to do a lot of formal aftercare which isn't necessarily always part of their dynamic, like they have to wind down and shane gets a lot of praise and reassurance that he is in fact perfect
I was thinking about the small mention in TLG where Shane thinks about the time Ilya tried to bottom and wasn’t into it and Shane also wasn’t into it. Which was like saying all my favourite words on a fake phone call!
I also think the verse for verse virtue signaling in fandom is a unique evil in this world
BUT, I can appreciate the desire to at least try it.
How do you think that conversation/actual act of doing it went for them? In your Give Hazard verse or otherwise!
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i have a lot to say about this!!
i have said (probably too many times considering that it literally does not matter at all In The Grand Scheme Of Things) that i am a switch Hollanov hater. their canon D/s roles are so important to #mythem and it is simply my personal truth that the longer they are together and the closer they get and the more comfortable their relationship becomes the more comfortable in those roles they are, and that the inevitable end of that is total power exchange. i honestly don't think they ever switch in terms of power exchange, i think the idea is deeply deeply unsettling to both of them and they don't need to try to know that they would hate it
the same isn't necessarily true for topping and bottoming tho! i think that actually within their dom and sub roles they would both have a desire to experiment with as many things as possible, and obviously penetration is not necessarily dominant and being penetrated is not necessarily submissive. and specifically in TGAH shane would be very into the idea of making sure that ilya was not missing out on anything shane could provide him (such as prostate orgasms). and regardless of universe i think shane would be like "getting fucked is the #1 best thing in the whole world and i want my baby to get to enjoy it it's no fair that i'm the only one who gets to get fucked in the ass!"
and ilya would be up for trying because he's curious, he's never had the chance to try bottoming with someone he cared about and felt safe with before, let alone someone who he has as much control over as he does shane. knowing that he's still gonna be 100% in charge makes him cool with trying, especially because if he could get into it it would open up new ways of having shane serve him (as a treat if shane also likes it, as a punishment if he hates topping as much as ilya suspects he will), and if not it opens up fun humiliation potential and also they never have to do it again
they do try and it's fine, they make it happen physically, they get as far as penetration (with ilya very specifically ordering shane how to finger him and lick him open and when he's allowed to start fucking ilya obviously). but neither of them are having a particularly good time, it's just awkward and ilya feels a little too vulnerable and shane feels too anxious, and about halfway through ilya just cooes at shane, "oh, malysh, you're really bad at this, yes?" and shane nods because thank god ilya's gonna make him feel bad in a good way instead of bad in a bad way and then ilya tells him that they should have known better, shouldn't have tried to make him do anything with his useless dick, and lets shane show ilya how sorry he is for being so terrible at this by sucking him off. probably plus a bunch of talk about how shane is just a hole that belongs to ilya okay byeeeee
thinking again about tgah shane who is not a masochist but will do anything and everything for his master. thinking about him getting whipped. thinking about him coming but it's because he got permission! it might've been in a dream but that's details! i want to swallow him whole. i want him to cry and be stupid and cockwarm and be tucked into bed. shaneypoo you deserve everything and especially cock. he's such a good boy. the goodest ever.
i think about tgah shane every day. and all the Situations i put him in but also how genuinely happy he is that he gets to be so good and taken care of no matter what. and get almost all the cock he can handle.
(also is this ask from tgah ilya bc "i want to swallow him whole, i want him to cry and be stupid and cockwarm and be tucked into bed, he deserves everything" is pretty much his thesis)
